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Fw: Comments/Letters to the Editor
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:01:07 -0500

>>>>>>Outrageous actions:
>>>>>>Someone who I would have liked to have at least met once uses this
>>>>>>when he sees a woman he's interested in with another man.  I assume
>>>>>>body language» between this woman and the man she is with do not
>>>>>>indicate that they are a couple, but I guess that is not required.  He
>>>>>>up to the guy, puts his hand on his shoulder, and says, "You know, I
>>>>>>had to come up and tell you that you have the most beautiful wife, you
>>>>>>one lucky guy".  If the woman is not with this guy, she may go "We're
>>>>>>married" or some variation (hopefully one which goes further and tells
>>>>>>that she is not involved with this guy).  From there, there is the
>>>>>>possibility to get her number as she makes her availability known.
>>>>>>I think this is just a great little technique, but not one I have had
>>>>>>occasion to try out.
>>>>>>Letters to the Editor:
>>>>>>The following are my selection of the comments on the posting on Max
>>>>>>those of you who wrote:
>>>>>>1) Maxin:  Modeling Natural SS'ers can be an area where we can gain
>>>>>>tremendous benefit. I'm very interested in the "Lay down the rules"
>>>>>>exactly what and HOW Max says what he says, for this is the area where
>>>>>>have the greatest opportunity to embed the proper conditions to have
>>>>>>relationship you want. I was talking to "The Mack Daddy" in Cancun and
>>>>>>told me that he used to sit women down and one of the first things
>>>>>>them is "don't fall in love with me" (negation) " 'Cause I see other
>>>>>>and I'm not interested in being with only one woman right now"
>>>>>>the possibility that perhaps sometime in the future that would be a
>>>>>>possibility. Of course the women he went out with would fall in love
>>>>>>him and pine away in hopes that he would chose them for this long term
>>>>>>Let me know what else you get from Max, looks like persistance and
>>>>>>numbers are a major part of his strategy, that's an area where good
>>>>>>looking guys don't get as much practice, because things come easier
>>>>>>My comments: I have heard that "don't fall in love with me" line
>>>>>>I find that the really hard part is knowing which women to use this on
>>>>>>which ones not to.  Using this on the wrong woman will immediately
>>>>>>poontang possibilities (I know, cause it happened to me).  Max counts
>>>>>>numbers and feels it is all a numbers game.  But it's not only
>>numbers --
>>>>>>when he has an opening, he knows how to move in for the kill.  He
>>>>>>most intelligent, very attractive women will want nothing to do with
>>>>>>but he still tries and once in awhile he succeeds with one.  He does a
>>>>>>of women that I wouldn't look at though.  Perhaps I should -- Major
>>>>>>says to talk to all women.  I think it also keeps your skills sharp.
>>>>>>a problem in that I am just very fussy about who I will have sex with.
>>>>>>2) Paul: I think, from reading all of what you wrote, that his simple
>>>>>>"formula" for success is to stand up for himself, state exactly what
>>>>>>looking for in life, not give a care, and work the numbers.  I'm going
>>>>>>keep that lesson in mind.   I'd like to read an interview with Max.
>>>>>>My comments:  Basically you have it right but nothing is black and
>>>>>>with women (at least, that's been my experience).  What works with
>>>>>>doesn't necessarily work with another.
>>>>>>Max has a good little repertoire that he uses and he has been
>>>>>>sometimes that are quite surprising.  Other times he has a real
>>>>>>he is relentless in that he just keeps going!  I will probably do a
>>>>>>interviews soon (wait till you read about some of the others I know).
>>>>>>3) Jason: Sounds your friend Max is a fun guy to have around! I know
>>>>>>guy through a friend of mine who has a very similar way about him. The
>>>>>>natural seducers are very good to learn from. Imagine being able to
>>>>>>the attitude of a super-successful natural seducer with that of the
>>>>>>a super-successful speed seducer.?.?. That could make for a very
>>>>>>combination.  I have really been concentrating (especially during and
>>>>>>Cancun) on controlling my state in such a way that I now (for the most
>>>>>>am able to talk to any woman in the same cool casual way that I would
>>>>>>to a friend. No lack of cool.  Now what I have
>>>>>>what has worked extremely well is something that I started using in
>>>>>>(Me and another brother went out every night and we approached
>>>>>>80-100+ women over the week period.) I would just keep my state
>>>>>>relaxed and cool, and I would just casually say "Hey
>>>>>>where are you from?" Now obviously if they weren't fully latino or
>>>>>>looking they were probably from somewhere else traveling just like I
>>>>>>obviously was (I'm a full-blown white boy). And because it was said in
>>>>>>a casual `hey I'm just being a nice friendly person' kinda way it
>>>>>>almost 100% of the time to start many conversations.  Anyway, by
>>>>>>totally calm casual `hey I'm just a cool, easy going, friendly guy'
>>>>>>coming across, along with asking a totally innocent, nice, friendly
>>>>>>`hey there's no reason to trip out on anything here, I'm an ok guy'
>>>>>>question, it gets the conversation started very well.
>>>>>>Now I've been thinking of some similar question/s that I can use to
>>>>>>conversations with women back here at home. One of these that I have
>>>>>>of is "hey, don't you live over by me?". Which would obviously end up
>>>>>>telling me where they really DO live. I'm still trying to think of
>>>>>>super innocent `non-pick-up' style conversation starters.
>>>>>>See here's my idea on it....hey if I can get in and get cool with them
>>>>>>a real person just being cool to another person, then here's no reason
>>>>>>them to not stop and talk to me. At least for long enough for them to
>>>>>>out if I'm as cool of a guy as I seem, and for me to find out if she
>>>>>>I want, then BOOM I'm in there!
>>>>>>What kind of questions can we come up with that are very much like hey
>>>>>>alright for you to be cool and let your defenses down for
>>>>>>me...after all it's not like I'm some guy trying to pick you up or
>>>>>>Out of all the women a friend of mine and I approached, we did end up
>>>>>>hooking up with a few for other dates on later nights, but didn't
>>>>>>deal on any of those ones. On every one of them I did my "Where are
>>>>>>approach" in an innocent way.  Now here's the interesting thought I
>>>>>>had....on the one that I did end up closing on I altered it a little
>>>>>>purpose it just came out) and said "Hey I couldn't resist coming up
>>>>>>meeting you and finding out where you're from?" So the interesting
>>>>>>the presup that I wanted to meet her in a pick her up kind of way
>>>>>>than innocently asking as just another fellow traveler.  Isn't that
>>>>>>interesting?  My intuition is still telling me the innocent approach
>>>>>>best. And I did end up kissing and getting numbers from some of the
>>>>>>so I'll go as far as saying if it was handled right some of the others
>>>>>>closable as well.
>>>>>>I've lately been having multiple women (not at the same time) at my
>>>>>>alone with them at another place (in a closable environment) and been
>>>>>>heavily making out and neck sucking but having them say they should go
>>>>>>saying I should go now. So we need to also
>>>>>>focus on sexual accelerators. Any insight on what Ray does to close
>>>>>>For the most part I'm ok with initial pick-ups and the middle parts of
>>>>>>seduction but the closing still needs some work. I'm thinking I've had
>>>>>>one of these women in a closable mode but I there's just one thing
>>>>>>from them surrendering. They all have been right up to the edge, but
>>>>>>let them slip away.
>>>>>>My comments:  I have mentioned before elsewhere my favourite tool "You
>>>>>>exactly like... someone I'd like to meet!".  The way I do the first
>>>>>>so politically correct that it is always well received.  Just as what
>>>>>>said in the context of being in a vacation resort is perfectly
>>>>>>natural and normal.  Why be nervous about it?  The reality is, all you
>>>>>>really doing is speaking to someone.  It shouldn't be the big event
>>>>>>has been for me or still is for most guys. Feeling safe with someone
>>>>>>key to many women.  Notice how, if you use
>>>>>>the phone lines, they can open up be very intimate with a total
>>>>>>because they feel safe at their end of the telephone with you at a
>>>>>>Yet the same woman, if you met her in person, may be receptive but in
>>>>>>totally different way.  Defenses are up, even though she sees you
>>>>>>front of her.  Does this make any sense?  But your friendly approach
>>>>>>obvious but critical element to making them feel relaxed and at ease.
>>>>>>all have these negative self images (in varying degrees) that need to
>>>>>>overcome and blasted away.  The very fact that you would need to think
>>>>>>they have no reason to not stop and talk to you means that the thought
>>>>>>at least crossed your mind.  I think it would be abnormal for you not
>>>>>>have had some negative self talk that needs to be overcome.  I still
>>>>>>certain areas that I need to change (eg. why shouldn't that hot HB who
>>>>>>law student and comes from a good family be interested in a threesome?
>>>>>>know intellectually that this doesn't make sense but I have a hard
>>>>>>working that into my conversations with these type of babes).  Dr Ray
>>>>>>to start up with innocent comments and move in for the kill
>>>>>>me, however, if I am not direct I always find that I crash and burn.
>>>>>>one of the things I like so much about my line; I start off with an
>>>>>>comment but my intentions become very clear right away and it is done
>>>>>>humour.  Ray's innocent openers almost always have to do with what is
>>>>>>happening at the moment, but it could be as simple as "Nice weather?"
>>>>>>"Are you from out of town?" etc.  Really innocuous little comments.
>>>>>>seems that most of the time they start talking with him and he's off.
>>>>>>are experiencing what I usually experience; that is, when your
>>>>>>were clear your result was clear.  It doesn't hold for a lot of other
>>>>>>so I think it all depends on the individual.
>>>>>>When it comes to closing, one thing that always strikes me and which I
>>>>>>no answer for yet (other than to just go for it no matter what, which
>>>>>>still reluctant to do when I am in the situation) is that you never
>>>>>>what their reaction is going to be until you actually take action.
>>>>>>women have we missed out on by assuming the wrong things and not
>>>>>>move?  Plenty, is my answer.
>>>>>>When it comes to closing the deal, for me this is a major problem.  I
>>>>>>an idea about this situation which I would like comments on.  That is,
>>>>>>she starts to hesitate, take your hand off her, etc., you completely
>>>>>>off.  You pull away and (this hasn't been refined yet, but you will
>>>>>>idea) say, "You know, I am too old to play teenager games.   I prefer
>>>>>>with someone who is ready to act like an adult and not get me all
>>>>>>and then put the brakes."  I know that backing off is the right thing
>>>>>>It's just hard to do when you are in the clench and you figure if you
>>>>>>it up she's got to get so worked up that sooner or later she'll give
>>>>>>But I think that doesn't usually work (at least it usually doesn't
>>>>>>me lately -- maybe I'm getting old).
>>>>>>One thing I have learned and it is also a hard one to put into action,
>>>>>>that sometimes you can have what you want just by asking for it.  For
>>>>>>example, you meet someone in while on vacation on an island and after
>>>>>>talking for awhile you just suggest you go back to your room with
>>>>>>From what I understand, this works extremely well!  You just have to
>>>>>>the appropriate time.  I am embarrassed to tell you how many times I
>>>>>>think of that if I had only done this I would have closed deals that I
>>>>>>slip away...
>>>>>>4)Bill:  I had been walked on before. The last time the girl was not
>>>>>>sincere, and only wanted to get from me as much a possible. Talk about
>>>>>>impetus to learn and change.  Call them on their shit asap. It is a
>>>>>>nature to try and usurp the man. Constant vigilance is required.  I am
>>>>>>practising this more at this time.  It does seem that it is much
>>>>>>do when you really don't give a shit.
>>>>>>If you want more information on altered states to help you on this try
>>>>>>Masters teachings. If you live in the L A area 870 on the AM dial 8:30
>>>>>>9:30 AM.  After I got screwed I started listing to him.   He described
>>>>>>everything that this girl was doing to me on his radio program and how
>>>>>>people like this do it.  His view is that man is the leader. I know
>>>>>>women say they want equality. But a man who leads gets what he wants.
>>>>>>His classic tape is the observation meditation exercise. Which is an
>>>>>>state, helping you to see the world form a more objective third person
>>>>>>of view. Have you ever watched a boxing match. This guy is in there
>>>>>>fighting, he is living that moment.  Ding!! He goes back to his
>>>>>>trainer then procedes to tell him everything that is going on in the
>>>>>>What he is doing, what his opponent is doing, how best to handle that
>>>>>>situation.  This tape also says to speak up immediately, otherwise the
>>>>>>moment is lost.
>>>>>>One of his books is "Hypnosis of Life" in which he claims that we are
>>>>>>walking around hypnotized by the pressures of life. I ordered this
>>>>>>before I got the basic SS course.   For his tapes and books call, The
>>>>>>Foundation of Human Understanding 800-877-3227
>>>>>>5) Michael: You might find Bandler's book Time for a Change one of the
>>>>>>books you've ever read.   In fact, as far as seduction goes
>>>>>>I've found that Persuasion Engineering is great and it costs less than
>>>>>>in hardcover via  Making an ecology check is making sure
>>>>>>you keep from contradicting yourself.  Just a way to take care that
>>>>>>the magic and the magic DOESN'T use you.
>>>>>>6) Leon: Max is right in his approach, Be up front or women will walk
>>>>>>over you.
>>>>>>7) Generaly:  I keep thinking that Sargy, and seduction skills in
>>>>>>are just tools.  They can be used or abused to produce a variety of
>>>>>>I tend to think that we always get what we want, but we may not own up
>>>>>>what it is that we really want.  For a variety of reasons, I think
>>>>>>might  tend toward isolation.  We seem to get along quite well without
>>>>>>social connections, on the other hand, I think that we really "need"
>>>>>>be happy.  I am talking about the kind of connections (and friends)
>>>>>>will be safe for us to be the kind of screw-up human beings that we
>>>>>>at times.  The kind of friends (and lovers) that allow us to have a
>>>>>>attack the sometimes harsh world out there.
>>>>>>I have started to realize that I really don't need very many skills to
>>>>>>laid on a regular basis.  As a matter of fact, when I had my most wild
>>>>>>period (seven girlfriends) was when I was a real dumbass,
>>>>>>And, I actually got laid less when I started to study Sargy.
>>>>>>My point?  I read that Max is the kind of person who is able to give
>>>>>>and respond to love in a constructive manner.   Maybe a better
>>>>>>would be that Sargy and seduction skills are like
>>>>>>learning how to shoot a gun really well.  But what are we shooting at?
>>>>>>Human relationships involve intangibles that are real but invisible.
>>>>>>can't even see what we are shooting at, and may even have had trouble
>>>>>>putting it into words.
>>>>>>We might evaluate a persons "success or failure" using a goal that
>>>>>>don't really have.  I read that you tried to give us a look inside
>>>>>>can we really see inside of his heart?
>>>>>>I would like to introduce another "seduction skill" that might appear
>>>>>>a personal preferance, but my warped brain thinks is common to all.
>>>>>>that is:  "The skill of giving love and responding to love
>>>>>>My Comments:  If we are not getting what we think  we want, it may be
>>>>>>because we really, truly don't want what we think we want. On the
>>>>>>hand, maybe we don't get what we want because we have limiting
>>>>>>beliefs...which is what I think still plagues me despite a lot of
>>>>>>that have gone on.  Given time and more work, I believe that I will
>>>>>>through, though.
>>>>>>People are "screw-up human beings" at times but these times diminish
>>>>>>the years if you get your head on straight (or more or less straight)
>>>>>>decide for yourself what is in your best interest.  I can tell you I
>>>>>>changed radically just in the last year since I started working with
>>>>>>I have a similar experience pre-ss.  I was doing very well before
>>>>>>I met my last serious girlfriend 5 years ago; I was involved with her
>>>>>>years and I am still friends with her today.  But I have never been
>>>>>>in terms of getting laid like I was before I met her.  She just got me
>>>>>>much off track.  Today I am much more assertive and able to start up
>>>>>>women ten times better than I ever was (I am that crazy one who
>>>>>>women EVERYWHERE and almost constantly) but my success ratio is poor.
>>>>>>am to be totally honest with myself, I think part of it is because I
>>>>>>remained friends with her and I know that she would still get back
>>>>>>with me.  I think this holds me back.
>>>>>>Max is someone who has struggled with feeling worthy all his life.  He
>>>>>>intelligent but not really educated and has limited polish.  Really
>>>>>>sophisticated women will usually have nothing to do with him (although
>>>>>>are exceptions).  When he hooks up with one he really likes, I think
>>>>>>overdoes it and smothers them.  The 6'3" model he is seeing is now
>>>>>>with him effectively (it's been three weeks they know each other).  I
>>>>>>be very happy for him if it worked out, but the pattern keeps
>>>>>>itself.  Also, the fact that he could
>>>>>>still call the phone lines when he is bored and go screw other women
>>>>>>though he is "involved") points to an inability to be truly with one
>>>>>>As far as isolation goes, I think that one of the likely
>>>>>>that guys interested in SS have in common is that a part of our
>>>>>>be to be loners.  We want to get laid but probably would prefer to
>>>>>>baggage that usually comes with that.  I know I do.
>>>>>>Your theme here is probably in tune with the underlying messages that
>>>>>>Mark and Ross have in mind; and that is, that once you get the getting
>>>>>>out of your system you may want to "build a better girlfriend" by
>>>>>>better you to begin with.
>>>>>>8) J': I think there's a fine line between not making excuses for your
>>>>>>desires as a man, and seeming too much like all you want is some quick
>>>>>>and never talk to her again.
>>>>>>My comments:  The truth of the matter is that if you can key into the
>>>>>>passionate side of a woman and reframe the sexual nature, they would
>>>>>>than happy to only want you for sex.  You just need to appeal to them
>>>>>>way that doesn't convey that you think of them as being sluts and
>>>>>>concept of this being a one night stand.  Many women will tell you
>>>>>>aren't necessarily looking for something serious but don't want a one
>>>>>>stand either.  So what's left? Logically, you should then be able to
>>>>>>casual, on-going sexual relationship, right?  Well, this is really
>>>>>>want.  No pressure from something too serious over their heads, lots
>>>>>>passion (acceptable, respectable sex), and getting to know someone.
>>>>>>do we have any problems getting laid?
>>>>>>9) Halbster:  Awesome. This is one of the most useful messages I've
>>>>>>in a while.  I'm gonna use some of his stuff.  "I'm not 16 and don't
>>>>>>McDonalds..."  If we go out you pay.  etc.  Have you told him about
>>>>>>sounds like he'd be great on the list.  What is the book he wrote?
>>>>>>some people, notably two very successful (financially) guys use "Marry
>>>>>>lines." I've had mostly bad results with the marry me line.
>>>>>>My comments:  Max was in Miami at the time of the seminar when I was
>>>>>>(I saw him before the seminar started) and I begged (really
>>>>>>get him to go but he wouldn't.  Didn't want to pay about $1000
>>>>>>a weekend (actually I think he would have, except that since his
>>>>>>he would have to have explained such a large expenditure to his mother
>>>>>>didn't want to have to deal with that - he'd kill me if he knew I told
>>>>>>anyone that, so that will be our little secret).
>>>>>>The book Max wrote is called "The Road to Success".  He uses it mostly
>>>>>>impress women right now, but also is thinking about ways to market it.
>>>>>>book is Max doing Tony Robbins, and I don't think you will find
>>>>>>extraordinary there.  His insights about women are more from his own
>>>>>>experiences and he thinks everyone knows what he knows.
>>>>>>I personally haven't used the marry me line - I am too afraid of the
>>>>>>term ramifications!
>>>>>>10) Rob: This is absolutely brilliant stuff!  This is what we need
>>>>>>real world, real life observations of what works and what doesn't
>>>>>>Comments on Claude:
>>>>>>11) Ross:  Ha ha. I had a roomate like that: Mike H...same guy..same
>>>>>>personality..same succes with women..same self-destructive
>>>>>>I think the appeal is, when they are "up", they are having so much fun
>>>>>>that their spirit of adventure is puts folks in that
>>>>>>state of being ready to try anything..of being willing to DO wild
>>>>>>they would never brings out the adventurous(and gullible) kid
>>>>>>people...that's the appeal in the nutshell..that THESE folks, like
>>>>>>Mike, in my experience, GO FIRST!
>>>>>>Unfornately,the state also contains NO genuine compassion, empathy or
>>>>>>interest in other it's like a huge sugar rush..with the
>>>>>>resultant crash later on...
>>>>>>They are missing a full half of a functioning personality..and
>>>>>>come to a bad end as a result.
>>>>>>The lesson: learn to create in YOURSELF that carefree, ready for
>>>>>>anything state..but keep humming in the backround, the compassion and
>>>>>>for others....and a willingness to walk away and call folks on their
>>>>>>'ll attract like a magnet WITHOUT the bad consequences of
>>>>>>Mike, or a Claude or some other folks I've known who shall go
>>>>>>12) Bill: This stuff reads like fiction. Could it really be true?
>>>>>>The one thing I do know is that as he didn't give a shit. Others gave
>>>>>>incredible power over themselves.  I go back into my memory in order
>>>>>>improve myself and learn about people. One thing I learned is that
>>>>>>times a person will want to be with someone for whatever reason. This
>>>>>>falls under what I call the limited option ploy. As Claude was so
>>>>>>walk away these women held a limited option. That being what can I do
>>>>>>him. Never asking do I even want him. I know I've been there with the
>>>>>>I was interested in.
>>>>>>Another powerful neurotic link is that such a person as Claude and the
>>>>>>assholes in the world is that they act in a way which presupposes that
>>>>>>are treating them badly. Most people respond by trying to make up for
>>>>>>feeling bad by what they did. Even though they did nothing wrong. Some
>>>>>>people actually feel that they are bad or wrong when they are not. So
>>>>>>are driven to make up for that. I've been there. Of course I know
>>>>>>now. And I am thinking of how to use this knowledge to get women.
>>>>>>when talking to them if they say something slight I will turn and step
>>>>>>from them. This helps to shift the balance of power. If you have any
>>>>>>insight on this let me know.
>>>>>>My Comments: I wrote about stuff that I saw personally.  I was really
>>>>>>when this happened (about 20 years ago) and was constantly amazed by
>>>>>>guy.  I saw him approach a really gorgeous young girl (probably 19 or
>>>>>>the street and within 5 seconds invite her back to his place and she
>>>>>>ready to go.  He had a sixth sense of what to do with whom that was
>>>>>>incredible.  I could never figure out how he did this.
>>>>>>13) Tom: First of all my thoughts are that this sounds like something
>>>>>>you created for a movie script or a book.  Some of the stunts this guy
>>>>>>like stepping between two people at a club and cutting the guy off
>>>>>>more than likely get him clobbered.  I would be pretty ticked off.
>>>>>>two women home with him at least once a month are pretty good odds
>>>>>>considering the majority of men don't score like that unless you're
>>>>>>Banderas or Tom Cruise.  Then again I've had similar experiences like
>>>>>>where a guy I used to hang out with was a schmoozer ....model type
>>>>>>boy somewhat like a
>>>>>>Brad Pitt look and he was a user ..... don't mean a drug addict
>>>>>>used to be.  He would get drunk and I would watch him sometimes he'd
>>>>>>kinda close to her in an intimate way and look into their eyes then
>>>>>>real softly in their ear telling them all kinds off bullshit none of
>>>>>>heard but I knew he was full of it.   This guy rented some chick's
>>>>>>and didn't have a real job plus his credit was shot to hell ....almost
>>>>>>sounds like this ex-friend of yours.  Most of the time he got laid
>>>>>>I saw.
>>>>>>14) Maxin: One of the things that might be very useful, is to look
>>>>>>back in time at the situations you were in with Claude, as if you were
>>>>>>there right now, and looking through the eyes you have today and
>>>>>>listening through the SS trained ears of today, to see what pieces of
>>>>>>useful information you can gleen from those memories. Kinda like that
>>>>>>DHE exercise Ross posted about last month, looking through a set of
>>>>>>lenses, lenses designed to allow you to see things differently, do
>>>>>>breath work, relaxation, meditation, and go back in time to when you
>>>>>>there, with the knowledge you have now and see what new information
>>>>>>might be able to get. You did that quite well with the Story about
>>>>>>calling the girl and telling her about his new car, and leading her
>>>>>>visually, but I think in other areas, there might be some more to the
>>>>>>that you could infer - and that's what I think might be very useful,
>>>>>>opinions of how and why what he did worked, maybe looking at it this
>>>>>>will open you up to some more info.
>>>>>>My Comments:  Since I hung around with Claude for about 4 years, I
>>>>>>there's a lot more I could comment on.  I do need to dust off the
>>>>>>and remember more of his strategies with women, because they worked.
>>>>>>15) Jerome:  It's sad to hear that your friendship broke up because of
>>>>>>stealing... I don't know why is it that most women usually like this
>>>>>>guy, ones who steal, cheat, are never serious... Sometimes, I wonder,
>>>>>>happens first, the appeal or the act? Should we copy them and steal,
>>>>>>and never be serious in order to get such results with women? Or is it
>>>>>>if we become appealing to women, we tend to steal, cheat and never be
>>>>>>My Comments: I think that our friendship broke up because I had made
>>>>>>decision to stop being friends with him.  He was very persistant and
>>>>>>calling me (and running into me as he knew where I would be some of
>>>>>>time) and apologizing and wanting to return to what was.  But I was
>>>>>>a basket case from what this put me through then and couldn't deal
>>>>>>on any level.  This emotional turmoil was me changing, growing and
>>>>>>and he was largely the cause.
>>>>>>Even when I was with him and saw him do evil, I was thinking to myself
>>>>>>take the good from what he was doing.  I don't think the stealing,
>>>>>>and not being serious are critical elements to the successful elements
>>>>>>his behaviour, only I had never seen this before anywhere.  It seems
>>>>>>some elements of being a scoundrel include naturally learning to be a
>>>>>>seducer.  If he didn't have the character flaws he had, he may not
>>>>>>found the behaviours with women that he had.

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Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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