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Fw: Comments
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:01:28 -0500

>>>>Instead of a "Letters to the Editor" format that I used before, I
>>>>might be a good idea to snip out the useful bits of the e-mails I
>>>>reaction to my postings.  Here are a selection of the more recent
>>>>have received.
>>>>Zach: Limiting beliefs are based in the conscious mind and unconsious
>>>>They are called rationalizations as they apply to the conscious mind and
>>>>core beliefs to the unconscious mind.  Now, the only way to change the
>>>>conscious mind for the better (in an easy and less painful manner) is to
>>>>first _change_your_unconscious_. Now, you may _find_yourself_asking_
>>>>I do that?" Well, setup a guide of a few beliefs you want to change,
>>>>out why you want to
>>>>_change_them_, determine whether or not they are core beliefs that
>>>>you or if they are merely limiting beliefs that are a hinderance. Then,
>>>>prioritize the ones you want to change and work on them one at a
>>>>(and keep in mind this is HARD to do on yourself unless you are trained
>>>>_do_it_, Cliff) find the best NLP technique for changing this belief. I
>>>>would recommend either using the processes mapped out in Core
>>>>Transformations by the Andreas OR use either the Swish pattern (Using
>>>>Brain by Richard Bandler)or Belief Change which I am not quite sure
>>>>book it is in for a reference but I believe it's in Frogs into Princes
>>>>Bandler and Grinder.
>>>>Riker: >Lately I am frequently asked, "How come you aren't married/don't
>>>>have a >serious girlfriend?">>>that a lot. Now I have a stanard response...
>>>>"I skipped my first marriage".
>>>>Generaly: (In response to the comment about giving a woman a good
>>>>to live up to in order to have her call back, not break dates, etc.)
>>>>called a binder.  Used in sales it goes like, "I see you as being a very
>>>>fair person, do you see yourself like that?"  This is done early in the
>>>>coversation and then later you say something like, "I'll lower the price
>>>>10%, now don't you think that is fair?"
>>>>With women, I like to ask them about stuff they have to do like pay the
>>>>rent, go to work on time, etc...  Then I say somethig like, "I see you
>>>>being a very responsible, mature woman, like you know how to keep plans
>>>>commitments, do you see yourself like that?"
>>>>Then later I might say, "Hey, I'll give you a call and leave a message
>>>>you're not there, so you can call me back when you get home.  Do you
>>>>that is a responsible way to connect (I love that word)?"
>>>>Leon: (Commenting on Claude) This stuff reads like fiction. Could it
>>>>be true?
>>>>The one thing I do know is that as he didn't give a shit. Others gave
>>>>incredible power over themselves. I go back into my memory in order to
>>>>improve myself and learn about people. One thing I learned is that often
>>>>times a person will want to be with someone for whatever reason. This
>>>>falls under what I call the limited option ploy. As Claude was so ready
>>>>walk away these women held a limited option. That being what can I do to
>>>>him. Never asking do I even want him. I know I've been there with the
>>>>I was interested in.
>>>>Another powerful neurotic link is that such a person as Claude and the
>>>>assholes in the world is that they act in a way which presupposes that
>>>>are treating them badly. Most people respond by trying to make up for
>>>>feeling bad by what they did.  Even though they did nothing wrong. Some
>>>>people actually feel that they are bad or wrong when they are not. So
>>>>are driven to make up for that. I've been there. Of course I know better
>>>>now. And I am thinking of how to use this knowledge to get women.
>>>>when talking to them if they say something slight I will turn and step
>>>>from them. This helps to shift the balance of power.
>>>>Generaly: I went to the "Whole Life Expo" here in Atlanta, and two
>>>>happened:  1.  I went to a great workshop given by a man nammed David
>>>>on "Sexual Spiritually," and I highly recommend checking him out!  He
>>>>some information that really applies to the attractiveness of a Claude.
>>>>how to have Claude's attrativeness without being a Jerk.  This is sooooo
>>>>important because guys tend to put the "shell" of the jerk on to try to
>>>>imitate a "Claude's" success.  This is actually counterproductive.  The
>>>>successful part can easily be expressed naturally without being a jerk.
>>>>you can't hear David soon, I recommend the book "The Way of the Superior
>>>>Man" (I know the title is pretentous, but work with me).  2.  I met a HB
>>>>the Expo (these places are great for Sargy activities!!!  Highly
>>>>Recommended!!!  Insane usage of exclamation points!!!), took her home
>>>>applied a little bit of what I learned at the workshop.  What happened?
>>>>high point:  I told her "I am going to make passionate love to you!"
>>>>did!  This may not be effective for everyone depending on the individual
>>>>man's "core sexuality"  and the nature of his "sexual shells."
>>>>A poor summary of David Deida's theories: We are attracted to our
>>>>opposites. Like a battery, a positive and negative pole produces a
>>>>(this isn't new stuff by any means, just very insightful and organized).
>>>>This means that women with the "Feminine Pole" are attracted to men with
>>>>"Masculine pole." Many times the scoundrels have a great deal of the
>>>>masculine pole because it could be said that the masculine pole is a
>>>>the most common and recognized male scoundrel model (not that there
>>>>lot of other very successful male scoundrels out there, like the "wimpy,
>>>>feminine" model). A man or a women can have any mixture (series of
>>>>of the masculine or feminine poles. In general, we have a "core" pole
>>>>orientation which could be seen as being somewhere on a scale from
>>>>masculine to totally feminine.
>>>>One of his teachings is to be able to find out where are core is located
>>>>to honor this as being the place from which we can act most comfortably.
>>>>Another major teaching is to be able to contact and express, cultivate
>>>>live in the extreme of our pole. For me, this is the masculine model.
>>>>Therefore, I am learning how to express the extreme of masculinity, and
>>>>is the point of the book, The Way of the Superior Man.  The male energy
>>>>very directed and goal oriented. It is focused and full of a presence.
>>>>Harrison Ford is a very good example of this energy which is so valued
>>>>people pay for exposure to it. It is cultivated at its essence by the
>>>>constant knowledge of our deaths, and by living at our edges.  The force
>>>>created by the purpose that we have determined to pursue.
>>>>That line "I want to make love to you" wasn't a pickup line, it was
>>>>after we got back to my apartment. I don't think that I am the kind of
>>>>that could pull off such a line verbally in a pickup. However, I almost
>>>>always say this to a woman when I first meet her.  The trick is, I look
>>>>straight in the eyes, deeply.  And, I say, "I want to make love
>>>>to you."  To her, but in my mind only!   I see the power of this
>>>>as having the following advantages: 1. This actually does affect my
>>>>attitude, my focus and my goals. 2. This is a way of contacting the
>>>>masculine pole without acting like a Jerk.
>>>>3. This is the easiest way to control my body language» that I have
>>>>Try looking in the mirror and talking to yourself (with feeling!). What
>>>>you see?  4.  There was a great scene in Tootsie when the HB told
>>>>that she just wanted a man to say, "Hey I could give you some kind of
>>>>But I just wanted to say that I find you very interesting, and I want to
>>>>make love to you," where Tootsie (as himself who meets her at a party)
>>>>recites the lines the HB (that she said that she wanted to hear) to her
>>>>exactly.  And she was insulted and she threw a glass of wine in his
>>>>guess you can see where I am getting now.  She was insulted by the very
>>>>thing she wanted from a man.  But imagine if he had said those same
>>>>but, he said the "I want to make love to you" line to himself.  She
>>>>have had no "reason" to be insulted and he would have said verbally
>>>>everything but only used body language» the "forward" line.  This is a
>>>>giving women what they want (the masculine energy) without "insulting"
>>>>And in general I have found that it is very difficult to express the
>>>>masculine energy verbally but, it can be easily said non-verbally and
>>>>body language».
>>>>Jerome: It's sad to hear that your friendship broke up because of his
>>>>stealing... I don't know why it is that most women usually like this
>>>>guy who steals, cheats, is never serious... Sometimes, I wonder, what
>>>>happens first, the appeal or the act? Should we do the stealing,
>>>>and never being serious first in order to get such results with women?
>>>>it that if we become appealing to women, we tend to steal, cheat and
>>>>be serious?
>>>>My comments:  Claude has an infectious personality combined with his
>>>>nature seemed to make him irresistable.
>>>>Gerry: (regarding Claude) That was an entertaining story... quite a
>>>>character!  I wonder if you could come up with an "executive summary" of
>>>>ingredients of this guy's strategy that we would want to model to be
>>>>successful with women. (Sounds like there is
>>>>quite a lot about him that we don't want to model!) Also, I'm wondering,
>>>>what type of women does he succeed with, and in what setting/context?
>>>>women anywhere, or only certain types & in certain situations?
>>>>My comments:  I credit Claude with giving me a kick in the ass that woke
>>>>up from my naive state when I was younger.  But as I was much younger
>>>>less aware back then, all I can remember is that the kinds of women it
>>>>worked on seemed to be any that he wanted, and that was mostly the best
>>>>looking ones around.  To summarize his model and strategies could be
>>>>but I will be talking about a better model in here shortly.
>>>>Halbster:  (regarding Anti-rapport) This reminds me of the story of the
>>>>who asks a girl if he can sit down at her table.  She shouts out "No, I
>>>>don't do that!  Get away from me pervert!"
>>>>The guy leaves.  Fifteen minutes later the girl walks over, apoligizes
>>>>explains that she is a psychology student doing an experiment in how
>>>>behave when they are embarrased.   He says loudly "Fifty dollars is way
>>>>much for having sex with you"  :)
>>>>Maxin: The key, I think is the ability to BE FLEXIBLE, and persistant,
>>>>you give up after trying one doorway, you may not find the right one.
>>>>is really no reason not to try all of them while you are there, until
>>>>you open the right one. Not everything works all of the time, you must
>>>>build a large collection of tools, so that you a prepared when you need
>>>>be.   Another key area, and one I am still working on is state control,
>>>>being in the right frame of mind, is of critical importance, minimizing
>>>>lust factor, incredibly beautiful women know on some level when you are
>>>>talking to them and lusting after them, when you can be there, and
>>>>unaffected, they actually become interested in you, focus on the ability
>>>>take it or leave it AT ANY TIME, yes, so you've slept with her still
>>>>maintain the internal state that you can just walk away (regardless of
>>>>beautiful she is).
>>>>Casey: I've just been deciding recently that my honest concern and
>>>>for people (even people that I don't know) is/has been a huge liability
>>>>respect to getting laid.
>>>>My Comments:  Everything is a question of how, when, why and what you
>>>>doing.  Claude, for example, can come across as the most concerned,
>>>>guy.  He would also, from time to time, take on a very callous attitude
>>>>that, as you watched him do it, you knew he wasn't really serious about
>>>>and it made people laugh.  (See the Claude post and the story about the
>>>>Three Little Pigs.)
>>>>Rick: Cancelled date frustrations.  Try this during some fluff:  "You
>>>>what I find interesting?  What I find interesting is womens' desire for
>>>>commitment in relationships... the "c" word as they say.  But do you
>>>>know what I think?  I think commitment starts with the small things...
>>>>keeping small inconsequential promises...  or keeping things said in an
>>>>intimate relatiosnhip, private...  or keeping your word regarding dates
>>>>appointments.  Do you agree?  Because I, like women, find commitment a
>>>>attractive thing."
>>>>(About being able to say anything to anyone as long as you are polite
>>>>about it):  Someone taught me that you can say anything as long as you
>>>>it with a smile.
>>>>Casey: An idea that is extremely useful for me is the visualization
>>>>regarding rapport.  Remember Titanic (the movie)?  We have 2 different
>>>>visualizations of the main character. As a young, beautiful woman and as
>>>>old, graceful, friendly woman.  While I was hanging out in one of my
>>>>favorite bookstores the other night, I saw the picture of a dark,
>>>>woman on the cover of a book (I don't remember the exact name of the
>>>>something like, "My Thoughts Shock
>>>>Myself".)  When I picked it up to look at, I found a recent photo of the
>>>>same woman - the author - on the back.  It seems that they took the
>>>>photo intentionally at a distance, because she's "lost her looks".
>>>>inputs co-incided in my mind, and I've begun to visualize every woman I
>>>>as she'll look when she's 70 years old.  How 'bout Audrey Hepburn?
>>>>her both in "Breakfast at Tiffiny's" and her last, recent pictures
>>>>charity-work?  The KEY, is to just deal with every woman as a woman, yet
>>>>with complete disregard for her looks.  Now, this will help with
>>>>state control, tonality, etc., right?
>>>>Kenny:  For me, the biggest revelation that Speed Seduction» has brought
>>>>is that women CAN be seduced by mere mortals such as myself. Previously
>>>>desired some woman, my notion would be that I would have to sell my soul
>>>>the devil to bed her. Where previously my impression had been that a
>>>>chasm the size of the Grand Canyon separate me from my  seduction
>>>>now realize that
>>>>is more like a small ditch which you can find ways to jump over with
>>>>effort. This change in attitude is crucial for if you imagine that
>>>>something is unattainable, of course it is.  Another revelation is that
>>>>seduction techniques exist to provide a better chance of success and
>>>>can be learned. My most useful technique is not even a technique, it is
>>>>merely the perception that if you want to connect
>>>>with a woman, don't talk to her about work, economy, politics, sports or
>>>>other such stuff. You can talk about those until you're blue in the face
>>>>over several months and you'll still be just friends. No, talk to woman
>>>>about emotive subjects like relationship, family, dreams, fantasies, sex
>>>>they respond much better. I've been able to connect with women by just
>>>>talking about emotive subjects without any recourse to special tonality,
>>>>embedded commands or patterns.
>>>>It is possible to bring up sex in a conversation with great effect.
>>>>are just as interested in sex as men (another revelation!). But one
>>>>build some rapport first or have some pre-existing rapport. When
>>>>the subject, speak naturally and look her in the eye. Do not hem, haw,
>>>>away and generally feel  uncomfortable because she will take her cue
>>>>you. Also, if you have rapport and you go into another state, she will
>>>>follow so take the lead. I've found that saying few words and going into
>>>>state of arousal (try imagining you and her doing things…) is more
>>>>effective than saying a lot of sexual stuff delivered unemotionally.
>>>>Could it be that some powerful natural seducers like Claude and Max have
>>>>what is called 'animal magnetism'? Their success may have less to do
>>>>techniques than with their state of being. As you've mentioned, copying
>>>>their techniques does not bring the same success, strangely what worked
>>>>them falls flat when used by ordinary men. Also, most of the time they
>>>>didn't need to use any techniques. I once had a friend who is something
>>>>that. He had no repertoire of techniques, he was just himself. Yet women
>>>>met were attracted to him like a magnet. Once he checked into a hotel
>>>>the cashier walked naked into his room. He was certainly not sarging
>>>>was also a happily married man who to my knowledge never took advantage
>>>>the female interest and had no noteworthy character defects.   What is
>>>>animal magnetism? It could be the psyche, a sub-conscious process or an
>>>>attitude. Perhaps we can induce it in ourselves by proper affirmations.
>>>>for one believe that people can connect with each other at the
>>>>level and what we observe at the conscious level is not
>>>>the full story.
>>>>J':  I VERY frequently start to respond to things women say that can
>>>>be turned into a sexually related they say something that
>>>>a certain kind of ambiguity that can be used to turn it slightly
>>>>sexual. (ie. they say whatever and I respond with something like oh yah
>>>>love to just, OH sorry my mind started to wander there for a sec!) I say
>>>>in an obviously just being funny and cute way, but it gets their mind
>>>>in that direction too.
>>>>Then i can transition into sexual stuff anyway. Works like a charm.
>>>>John: (On giving a woman a big reputation of being responsible so she
>>>>respect appointments, returning phone calls, etc.) Bro Lee uses a
>>>>this already.  He would say something about knowing she was the kind of
>>>>person who had enough integrity to .  I use it as an
>>>>intuition thing... "I have an intuition that you are the kind of person
>>>>respects integrity.  I respect that too...and its a most attractive
>>>>about you.  I'm not sure how my intuition knows this about you, whether
>>>>how you speak or how you carry you know?"   (The question
>>>>validation of her trait...Cialdini calls it commitment.  Mark calls it
>>>>affirmation.  All I know is that it works.)
>>>>(On Why Aren't You Married at Your Age Questions) I respond with..."No
>>>>has managed to convince me yet that being
>>>>married would make my life better."  (Said with a a smile)  Its an open
>>>>ended challenge. About half the time, it makes me look
>>>>like arrogant beyond belief and the other half, just not easily
>>>>satisfied.  Half the time, it gets sneers and the other half, a
>>>>good giggle.  Most of the time, it works to my advantage.
>>>>(On Saying Anything as Long As You Are Polite) Acting a little
>>>>with a "I'm not sure how to say this..." paces any negative reaction
>>>>well.  Like:  "You said something
>>>>that got me, and, um, I'm not sure how to say this...
>>>>but do you know that moment just before you
>>>>arrive.  I just wonder sometimes how wonderful it would feel if
>>>>we could hang onto that moment for hours instead of moments...
>>>>maybe we'd have fewer wars or you think?"
>>>>Elroy: Your post on Claude and Max was very informative.  Thanks!  I'm
>>>>trying to work out why most natural seducers seems to be more of a
>>>>than anything else.  If we can extract their metaprograms and beliefs,
>>>>keep them contextualized with regards to seduction, then we may be able
>>>>be honest, decent guys who are ALSO successful with the women we like.
>>>>Generaly:  I have been experimenting with just getting out of the way
>>>>natural forces of sex. This has been very simple, and effective for me.
>>>>haven't stopped using Speed Seduction», I just use it in a very
>>>>relaxed manner. Kind of "off-hand." In general, I have found that the
>>>>keep my mouth shut, the more I am getting laid. The women are doing the
>>>>for me!
>>>>My Comments:  I think there is a lot to learn about what is "unspoken,"
>>>>that which the other person reads into your behaviour.
>>>>If you know how to convey the right message, it seems that people will
>>>>complete the action for you.
>>>>Zach: I tend to focus on the aspect of romance not seduction. Women can
>>>>smell a horny man a million miles away. Use a less aggressive approach
>>>>go for shorter leading states...that eventually lead to your desired
>>>>I have found that being able to USE SMALL TALK and not some pickup line
>>>>tends to work better in clubs. It has to be good small talk though. Like
>>>>environmental pace/lead! Women are innately great at using their
>>>>to pickup men's bullshit! This is also why congruence is suggested.
>>>>This is some of the best advice I can give you... and it's a way
>>>>at every instance with a woman... Robert MacDonald taught me this and
>>>>also in more detail in Frogs into Princes:
>>>>1) Determine what you want
>>>>2) Determine how you will know when you get it
>>>>3) Determine what will be in your way to get what you want
>>>>Sit for a spell...take my suggestion in...and really THINK ABOUT IT!
>>>>use...YOUR UNCONSCIOUS...Mind to determine all of this...and MAKE IT
>>>>CONGRUENT ... with how you act on the
>>>>Nathalie: (Regarding Max) It is a very interesting story...
>>>>It deals with the different points of view of the word 'seduction',
>>>>people in general and men and women in particular! here it is more
>>>>with 'agression'... I know a lot of women who would run away from Max,
>>>>doesn't seem to respect himself so much (the speed in the process), he
>>>>to treat every woman the same as long as they look good (who likes to be
>>>>treated as a number?) and has not a lot of tact (pay for diner if he
>>>>sleep with a woman)...
>>>>I can assure you that, specially in Europe, he would have a very hard
>>>>George: I now typically define the specific and honest terms of my
>>>>expectations before entering into any encounter or relationship.
>>>>John: Before Speed Seduction», I was into the woman at a bar, doing
>>>>well, overall, and he come up (he knew me vaguely), and says, "John,
>>>>good friend John...could you introduce me to the beautiful
>>>>am sooooo shy, and she is so beautifull......"  takes her hand and
>>>>the back of it, and melts her right there.  I walked away from the
>>>>situation, mostly because no one had ever had the balls to do that to
>>>>As always, your comments are greatly appreciated.
cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



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Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

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Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

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A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

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Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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