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Variety is the Spice of Life
Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:39:29 -0500
Seduction Resources (the never-ending search continues):
You may want to check out The Don Juan Newsletter, "Your FREE Guide to
Succeeding with Women! To subscribe, send a blank message to
don***n@ma***.com[ ? ].
A really intriguing book (which I have ordered and am waiting for) is The
Mindpower Seduction Manual by Amargi Hillier. The website is
http://www.projectduat.com/mind-power-seduction/. Get a 20% discount with
this code: 68493. Everything you imagined about psychically seducing a
woman (or man, according to the website) that seems impossible is suggested
as being offered here.
Another interesting book (I ordered this as well) is Outfoxing the Foxes
(http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html). Thanks to Len for letting me
know about it.
I am in the middle of reading How To Make Anyone Fall in Love With You by
Leil Lowndes. Also in my reading stack is The Complete Idiot's Guide to
Seduction, Bluff your Way In Seduction, More Love Tactics, and several
others. One day I will review these and others.
Out with a woman recently who wouldn't let me close (typical female reasons,
not ready, too fast, etc. etc. etc. etc.). While the following didn't work,
it was unquestionably effective and another tool to add to the toolbox. I
looked deep into her eyes and said "It's not really what you want, because
you couldn't kiss me the way you've kissed me, held me the way you've held
me or looked at me the way you've looked at me not to want to share in all
the pleasures that we can share together." She said that she wants to hire
me to handle sales for her, but....
Two nights ago I closed the deal with Orly. She hadn't been to my place
before because I have a cat and she says she has a violent allergy to cat
hair. So I told her I would put the cat in the extra bedroom and keep the
door closed. If she had a reaction, we would leave. She comes over,
notices and plops down in the (I am not sure how to describe this) two
person reclining chair/couch that I have. She asks if this is my seduction
seat which, of course, I tell her yes and that I have had a lot of fun in
that seat. I sit next to her and she starts cuddling and making out with me
but soon notices that her black jeans are covered in cat hair! As I brush
most of it off with one of those K-Tel miracle brushes I got years ago, I
mention that the only place in my apartment where the cat hasn't been is on
my bed as I have a sheet that I cover the bed with (I have delicate linens
on the bed and washing them out every week because of the cat hair would
ruin them). So we go on the bed and she says "I'll bet this is your
standard routine, the cat hair excuse to get someone into your bed" but from
then on offers not only no resistance but active participation : P
The other night I connected with a babe on the phone lines that sounds
extremely interesting. 33 years old, 5'7 145 lbs (assures me its all
muscle), natural blond (the rugs and the drapes match - I always ask if they
match to anyone telling me they are blond), and while not bi-sexual tells me
she has been with many women. She tells me how once she was picked up in
NYC by two high class call girls who seduced her, how she always gets what
she wants (picking up the guy you want is easy -- must be hot to do this,
no?).
I had her going with a lot of SS language (she was telling me how wet I was
getting her and at 1:00 am she's thinking about coming over to my place --
she lives 45 minutes to an hour away -- when she has to be up at 6:00 am the
next day). I have her number and am set to meet her this Friday.
Rick (Commenting on the above): You raise an interesting point that I have
encounted several times and it is worth mentioning. There are a lot of girls
that are bi-sexual but they don't like the title. This girl is obvously one
of those. She sleeps with girls but defines herself as straight. Thats ok,
denial is ok as long as she does what you want. I think you are better off
allowing her to keep her current definitions and frame it in "taking girls
home with us to play with".
Thats how I would play it anyway.
My Comment: That's how I will play it.
Halbster: (Commenting on: Vinigarr:I think the trick is in the excuse. Or
the reason your telling her this. One example is I was with my daughter
(chick magnet) and a girl approached. She was paying attention to my
daughter and I said "I think the girls that I date feel attracted to me
because everyone loves this person" and she became interested! My Comment:
Up one level from "telling her you are banging other chicks" is the upfront
use of honesty at all times. I think there is a direction to take this
where you give women complete freedom and raw honesty; it seems to me that,
handled correctly, people will become addicted to this treatment which is so
rare. Even if they may not initially really like what you are saying (eg.
that you are sleeping with other women), they can be drawn to the power of
your words because they don't get this from anyone else.)
Halbster: I agree with Cliff. Telling her your sleeping banging others is
not something that always has to be done, like an airplane pilot checking
off something on the list before takeoff.
My Comment: When it comes up, you have to be upfront in a playful way, I
think. A different way around it is to mention that an important value of
yours is freedom and let her fill in the blanks.
Halbster: It is just something that people can do and contrary to many
people's expectations it works. I think Cliff explained the primary reasons
it works so well. Some of the other messages that this sends are 1) Kick
Ass Google/Confidence and 2) Lots of woman find you desirable. It also gets
her curious about why all of these woman are with you. You also become both
a challenge and a potential status symbol. However, I don't think that
there are many woman who will say "I didn't like this guy at all, I felt no
attraction for him, and I only slept with him because he told me that he is
banging a lot of other woman."
My Comment: But they may get curious enough about you to try you out. I
know when I do this on the phone lines they immediately assume I am
attractive (as, frankly, I do about them if they are able to get it from
other guys) and are more receptive to meeting you.
Bryan: (Commenting on "The next step is that to create the idea in her mind
that she is the lucky one to be spending time with you.")This is a critical
point. As I understand it, the L.A. Seminar spent a lot of time discussing
frames and exactly how to set these frames. I have read Mindlines by Hall
and Dragon Slaying. I have been trying to develop a solid understanding of
how to set frames. They seem to be very simular to themes. What is the
difference? It would appear that you could simply introduce the frame by
simply saying it. "It is amazing how busy things are for me at work? The
good thing is
that I makes you realize how precious your time is. That is why I will only
spend time with people that are interesting. There has to be something
really special about this person."
This comes across as being pretty arrogant. I am working on new ways to
frame this belief. I also really liked the frame that Ross has in the SS
Newsletter. "Most people don't know what it is that they really want. Even
if they do, they don't appreciate it until it is too late." What frames have
you used and how exactly did you set them up?
My Comments: Mainly I use the reframe of dating to friends, mentioned
recently. Another one that I know that can work well is reframing the
taking your time to get to know someone to being spontaneous. This can be
done in a way to bring out the adventurous side, the natural woman without
those culturally programmed rules, roles and regulations.
(More comments from Rick - listen carefully)
Rick (Commenting on my comments on reframing the dating frame to the friends
frame): I like the reframe! Nicely done! My approach to this reframe would
not be quite as direct. I would have set it up by saying something like
this: ...That is really interesting because I was just talking to my friend
Monica about the very same "dating frame" that you just mentioned, and she
was telling me how she had just realized that the "dating frame" really
doesn't work and that she has been looking at this whole thing one way for
years and suddenly she discovered a new way, an open way, a (new
direction)"nude erection", a "nude erection" she can just grab a hold of,
and take deep inside, and make it a part of her. Because when she thinks
about the people who have come and gone in her life, the old boyfriends have
fallen away and that connection has been lost (point away) but some people
(pointing to self)are still by her side giving her all the things she really
needs and values. And maybe, that's because there are no demands to place
on each other, no pressures, no artificial or contrived societal
expectations to be satisfied. Only, the knowledge that this is a person
(pointing to self)who is open to all the love you can give, all the love you
have stored deep inside and you are comforted in the quiet knowledge that
this love is treasured and will be returned. Now, with me, as she described
it, I think that is the sort of thing that would really make me think things
differently. I would have also structured it the same way regarding
limiting beliefs (maybe something like...I just attended the most
fascinating seminar on limiting beliefs and the rules and roles of
society.....
My Comment: Your comments also make me realize how small touches and
refined little details can really amplify the power of these concepts.
Rick (Commenting on "My Comment: I certainly have noticed women looking at
me and my thinking being that she's looking because she's interested but
(and I am sure most women find it frustrating that men don't pick up on
their signals of interest) we aren't mind readers and tend to err on the
side of caution. Probably the best thing to do is to somehow test reality
by going up to them, talking to them and finding a way to find out/confirm
if the reason they were looking was because they were interested or if
perhaps your zipper was open.") I have a different take. Women want men that
they are attracted to, to notice them or pay attention to them. That means
that she may be flirting with you in front of her boyfriend to get HIM all
worked up. This is a bad thing and I blow these women off. Dueling for the
love of a woman is about 200 years out of date and I'm not in favor of
bringing it back into style. It isn't worth it, there is another one just as
cute that will be along in 5 minutes. It's like fighting for sand on the
beach. Not a good use of energy! Now, If a woman notices me and she does not
have her Bore-friend in tow, she is free game. One approach I use for this
situation is to walk right up the second I see her looking at me and say "I
noticed you noticing me, and I just wanted to tell you that I admire a woman
with good taste". It is direct but indirect, an action yet a reaction, to
the point yet very vague.
My Comment: While I know that in reality most men aren't going to do this,
when you see a woman with another guy the truth is that you shouldn't assume
that she is not available. I have gone to weddings and met couples who
turned out to be brother and sister or just friends who needed an escort.
Many, many relationships are shaky (sometimes the guy doesn't even know how
shaky) or the woman still has her eyes open. If you engage in a
conversation with the couple and she is interested, don't be surprised if
she drops a hint (like where she works) combined with a glint in her eye or
some leading comment which she is hoping you pick up on and follow up on.
For those who remember, Claude used to wedge between a man and a woman at a
bar pretending he wants to order something from the bartender, then would
turn to talk to the woman and cut the guy out (he had an uncanny instinct
about when to do this, mind you). Another guy I mentioned previously has a
technique where he goes up to the guy and compliments him on his attractive
wife (which, if she isn't his wife, she usually will quickly correct). And
we all know from Major Mark how there are no married women, only women who
are married.
Elroy: (Commenting on my experience years ago in L.A. where I changed my
attitude through affirmations) Clifford, this is truly amazing! In your
next mail, pleeeaaasssee tell us as MUCH as you can about how you got
yourself into this mindset, the kinds of affirmations that you used, the
mental/emotional state that you were in as you were telling yourself the
affirmations, etc. You mentioned that you wanted to make major changes in
your attitude - what were those changes, if I may ask? Do you think it was
any one specific attitude that you acquired, or was it the cumulative effect
of all of the changes? I'm really interested in this, as I have never heard
of this before. Flying! Wow! Man, now that you have that state in your
mental repertoire, it's going to get easier and easier for you to get it
back at will. Do you realize how awesome it would be to have this state on
tap, so that you just FLY whenever you want, wherever you want? How great
would that be to have at work, or with some of the ladies that you are
currently dating? Now that you have this, you can begin to build it into
all the parts of your life that could benefit from such a state, and
sometime...
My Comment: I was asked this by a few others that I responded to privately
who wanted to know more about how to go about this. The first thing that
comes to mind is that I went out of town and I was able to escape the usual
daily routine and the people in my life who consciously or subconsciously
aided me in keeping my thinking down where it was. The second thing is that
I was able to devote almost full time to working on my mind and going out
and having fun. I think the best thing to do is to spend a little time
thinking about the negative self talk you have first. Then design the
affirmations to redirect those things you are currently telling you.
Honestly, I don't remember much about what I told myself back then other
than convincing myself (by remembering times when people responded
positively to me) that women liked me, were attracted to me, that I had a
great sense of humour, etc. Now I am not a teacher of this stuff; when I
did it I got my basic ideas out of long out of date self help books. Today
you have much better resources available to you (besides Ross's stuff, if I
was thinking about doing this I would spend some time in your local Barnes &
Noble or Borders Books, get some stuff there and search the web under topics
like "self esteem", "confidence" etc.). As far as recreating that state, I
should do it again. My current challenges just aren't as pressing for some
reason and while I am working on them and think about them, I have managed
to develop a fairly stable positive outlook and so my motivation is just not
as intense as it used to be. Of course if you reading these posts you may
think otherwise.
Maxin (Commenting on Rick's amazing adventure with five women): I am without
words other than these, I have been thinking too small, and truly believe
now the promise Ross made when he said that "this will make your wildest
dreams, seem like a joke" that's the kind of life I will live. Nothing he
did was "new" for the most part, even the idea of using one girl to get
another I have heard before, that's simply the best application I have ever
seen.
My Comment: I think the most amazing thing about Rick's story is how much
it may appear to be really within your grasp. He uses the same stuff we
learn from Ross and then had the women do the rest.
Evan (Commenting on Rick's story): Had I not met Rick, I would have had a
hard time believing it. But the important thing to remember about this is
that Rick wasn't inventing everything as he went along. Many elements are
things he's practiced, things that he knows do work. While I'm awed by his
brilliance, it is still based on fundamental principals, and is replicable.
Which is to say that
unlike an AFC who would hear this story and say "I could never do that," I
appreciate it as a learning experience.
Rick (Commenting on a private e-mail from a brother who needs some help) It
sounds to me like his problem is confidence or google as Ross puts it. I
think he needs to learn how to build his mental state. As you know, the very
first step is creating a useful mental state, and I think Ross teaches how
to do that as well as anyone. Obviously some of his problems could be (1)
putting to much
weight on the result of one walk up. (2) not knowing what to say once
you are there. (3) Viewing rejection personally, as opposed to an
opportunity for the girl to show what kind of woman SHE is. If he
doesn't have Ross' home study course he should get it and he should probably
attend his next seminar too. He will learn the
basics of what he needs to know best from Ross.
Chris: Rick has redefined the potential for SS, and lets me know that my
dream is possible.
Vinigarr: (Commenting on Rick's five women) awesome post ! i tried something
along those lines last night, although i didn't end up in bed, the tension
was there and she was definately going for it. i did the handwriting
analysis and led to "u are very sexual" "u are experimental by nature" "are
u bi-sexual" ... she didn't label herself that but said she was with
women... "ok see i find this is really accurate, i only date bi-sexuals etc
etc blah blah.. know what would be fun?... if we were to find a georgeous
kittie to bring home with us, enjoy the pleasure, wouldn't that be
fun?"....tranced... her: "oh yeah" ddb....(doggy dinner bowl) in summary...
ask them, then describe the freedom etc and collaborate/conspire w/here to
pick up on others. excellent method !!!! right on !!!!
Braden (Commenting on The Master Speaks): This is truly incredible! For me,
the genius of this guy is how he enables his inner creativity to allow words
and ideas to seduce the woman.
In order to get her -- a complete stranger -- to take the risk to totally
let herself be uninhibited in her decision making and behavior, he
skillfully suggests that:
1) she's adventurous by nature
2) she seeks and appreciates real connections with people
3) she's the kind who is willing to enter new spaces in life without the
fear of leaving the "previous room"
Well, this is the denotative explanation. But what drives his "pitch",
though, is the flowing language and compelling imagery of a master poet.
He's an artist -- a true pickup artist.
I must say, though, that if not for the intelligence of the woman in
question, the reaction might have been different. She probably was
seduced more by the inspiring expression of the language than by the
so-called techniques behind them.
I firmly believe in the principle of "just do the opposite". If you can
imagine the sort of guys who date this person (based on the city you meet
her in and the location(s) where she most likely hangs out),
differentiating yourself from these men will give you an instant
advantage. I mean, although difficult to imagine, if men were as
creatively articulate as this "master", this woman might actually fall for a
simple man of few words.
My Comment: As others reading this may pick up, Braden (who has written a
book on How to Pick Up Girls, by the way) appears unfamiliar with Speed
Seduction» and the terminology and technology behind it so the words used by
Rick are not new to many of us. I can see how amazing it must seem to
anyone who was unfamiliar with SS but to read about it being executed at
perhaps its highest level. SS teaches that the more intelligent the woman
is, the better it will work. It also distains the use of alcohol which many
guys use as a main weapon. But I remember also what Ross says when a woman
tells him that alcohol makes her horny (he goes "Bartender!").
Doing the opposite is an interesting comment. I find that raw honestly may
be the underlying principle that makes that work. As an example, without
unduly repeating what was previously pointed out recently, I have found that
being direct about sleeping with other women if done in a sexy, playful way
has the effect of turning women on (despite what they claim about wanting
commitment, etc.). People are not used to someone facing things directly
and it has a very powerful effect.
===================================================
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as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
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here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
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