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The Comments Keep Coming
Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:20:06 -0500

I would like to thank those of you who took the time to send me your
comments on my past posts.  While I don't forward every comment on, I
appreciate the e-mails and try to answer them all.  I did have a hard drive
crash last month and lost a few, so if you didn't hear from me please write
me again.    Clifford

Len: (Commenting on my having found the young lady referred to in my last
post through the "phone lines") Phone lines?  What phone lines?  Am I
missing out on something?  I've avoided the personals and IRC because I
didn't think I'd find attractive women there, based on what people said.
How are you finding them so easily on the phone lines?

My Comment:  We have several phone dating services here in Montreal.  The
one I use mainly is Telepersonals (you can go to the company's website at and click on the "Telepersonals Free Trial
Offer") which also operates an internet service
(  They have operations in 38 cities.
You can also check out your local free newspapers (eg. L.A. Weekly, every
city has them) and you should find phone numbers of these but you need to
look for the legitimate ones, not the 900 number services.  Using these
lines can really sharpen your skills.  And there are some amazing women on
these lines (I think some of them like the idea that they talk to men who
are not tranced out by their looks).

Len: (Commenting on "Women are attracted to men who have a purpose") This
resonates in my experience.  A young lady told me she liked a guy who was
ambitious and slightly arrogant.  I tried to model that, but she lived too
far away so not too much happened.  This is akin to the "adventurous life"
that Major Mark talks about.  The question is: what kinds of purposes do you
think women would be interested in?  Or what features about the purpose make
it attractive?  Putting a higher value on your time is an obvious one.
Maybe something valued by society: doctor, lawyer, entrepreneur?  Just
looking for more expansion on the idea.  Your thoughts?

My Comment: Naively, I think that most women (not all) are not hunting out
men with money. What they are more looking for is someone who is supporting
himself and is responsible, as opposed to someone that is unemployed,
drifting, etc.  Now I have to say I have been told (more than once) that if
women smell money that that is the biggest aphrodisiac.  I am sure it
applies to many women, but I seem to run into more down to earth types more
than ones that may be golddiggers.  I think that as far as your purpose
goes, you just need to have one that is of prime importance to you in your
life and which she may have to wait while you do things that need to be done
as they relate to this purpose.  It helps if you are interested in this
purpose (in other words, if you work as a waiter, or a baker, or whatever
that you be passionate about it and ambitious, with plans to improve your
situation whatever they may be) rather than just doing your time.  In my
experience, ambition is admired by women.

Jobet: (Headed : "Re: Seductive Psychological Excuses was: Seductive
Reasoning")  That is a hallmark of inflexibility, if this is the only
"trick", behaviour or course of action that he knows.

My Comment: I have stated clearly that he is among the best that I have ever
met as far as ability with women is concerned and there is a lot more to his
tactics and strategies than I outlined in that brief quote.

Jobet: Of course, the study of how a lock works goes far beyond inserting a
key and checking if it opens,and if not throw the key and open another door.
Don't get me wrong though. There is still some wisdom that can be learned
from your friend's approach.

My Comment: Well, I am not able yet to fully expound on it.  I have been
spending time with him, taping him and questioning his methods but I am
still learning.  Knowing that he has zero knowledge of NLP, it is quite
remarkable from what I have heard how he has designed all of his system on
his own based on real world experience.  Certainly there is much crossover,
but there are a lot of original ideas (to me, at least) that I have been

Jobet: There are many ways to open a lock. The safest, is if you have the
right key. But that hardly happens if the door ain't yours. It's akin to
instantaneously being the ideal man for her that fits all of her values,
criteria, and knows exactly what to do at the right time and right place.
Ummm....unless you're reasonably psychic, this is hardly achievable. You can
waste lots of time going around, checking if your key fits in alll of the
doors, to find 1 or 2  where the key will turn. That's a terrible waste of
time, isn't it ? Another approach is to bludgeon the door with a
sledgehammer. While this approach also works, it is hardly ever elegant. And
you may find that the owner might change locks. The best way in, is to be a
lockpick, capable of
opening all sorts of locks...from tumbler locks to inline locks to combo
locks etc.

My Comment: This friend was always being set up with women that the party
making the set up felt were cold, difficult, impossible, etc. and the set up
was more a challenge to see how he would do.  Almost invariably these women
would fall in love with him and want to marry him.

Jobet: I will give you one piece of advise that may be the one of the
biggest pieces of wisdom you have gotten your hands on. Women DON'T want to
be "fucked" or "screwed". Why ? Its a societal stigma somehow if a woman
gets laid too easy, no matter how much she wants it. This constitutes one of
the biggest psychological obstacles to a woman. No woman wants to be labeled
as a "whore", or a "tramp" or an "easy girl", and hence, majority of them
set up
their own "locks" to prevent herself from labelling herself just that.

My Comment: I am aware of this.  What I will say about it, just as NLP talks
about pacing and leading, is that similarly to my friend's concepts about
leading your spelling out the stigma issue makes this subject more concrete,
more specific than my general understanding of this.  I have used this
concept whenever a woman may make some sort of derogatory comment about
"getting laid" by telling her that that's not how I see it.  That I see
making love as a beautiful, memorable experience that can truly enrich your
life.  This works great.

Jobet: So what is the solution ? Give her an excuse to FUCK YOU. You read
right, man. Give her an excuse to fuck you. An excuse that short-circuits
all of the psychological stumbling blocks.  Heck...even just get her tipsy
(but still consciously aware) over a bottle of beer or constitutes
a psychological excuse for her to indulge in her illicit pleasures. For many
women, the excuse to, fuck you, is marriage. Heck...that's not acceptable to
me, so one must give her something else.

My Comments: I know guys who will lead women on to think they are on the
road to being their serious boyfriends, who will encourage them with
alcohol, or do anything that will lead them to success.  And I am listening,
seeing what I can learn and assimilate into my repertoire.  I find that
lying to them or leading them on is just not the way I want to go;
interestingly enough (as I've mentioned before) it appears that telling them
the truth (eg. "don't fall in love with me, I'm seeing other women", "I'm
not looking for something serious right now" etc.) just seems to issue a
challenge to them while sometimes also releasing the heavyhanded pressure
that can also underly the prospect of beginning a serious relationship.  As
far as alcohol goes, I really don't drink except for a half glass just to be
sociable (much more than that seems to put me to sleep) so it isn't a
natural approach for me.  However, I have been keeping some refreshments in
my fridge and always offer some to any young lady who may have stepped into
my lair.  To make it the tactic of the moment is something that I have been
encouraged to do by another friend of mine (who claims great success with
it) but I would prefer to keep this as a backup strategy.  I much prefer a
woman who is wide awake and consciously interested in the adventure before

Jobet: This approach must presuppose that she wants you already.

My Comments: And this is very key.  I have another friend who is very
successful with women and I feel one of his strongest assets is a  genuine
belief that they all want him.  He really, really believes this deeply and I
know it affects the way he talks to women and the way they react to him.  I
think if "you go first" and presuppose that she wants you already, she will
follow this lead (assuming you handle yourself well and know what you are
saying and doing, of course).

Jobet: And by Thor's mighty mallet Mjolnir, Do  presuppose ! Because, doing
this, supercharges your congruence and programs, your unconscious,  to
manifest that reality in this world ! Or if you're the pessimist, throw in
all of your language skills, calibrate, iterate that loop to
satisfaction,then presuppose a desire to, fuck you, Cliff.
1. "Oh I got drunk, I hadn't gotten hold of myself"
2.Oh...he played romantic music when we were having a drink...I turned to
mush and melted...I just had to do it
3. His voice just seemed to tickle me deep inside...his deep baritone
just touched a part of me...making love with him just seemed like the right
thing to do.
Now Cliff, this philosophy goes beyond the use of language patterns and
frames those as merely the tools to your end. Fucking someone who is not
your husband is societally "wrong". And it works, even in sales

My Comment: I am not sure how that reference of cheating on your husband
relates to this.  Certainly if you presuppose that this (or anything else,
eg. sales) will happen you increase the likelihood that it will.

Jobet: While I .value learning, Cliff, I enjoy open universities rather than
personal tutorials. If you're not ready to share all this around to everyone
by opening a new list or joining and actively participating in an existing
one, then take me off your list as it seems that you're the sole beneficiary
of all of this activity. And heck, I'm not getting paid to be
yourXX-Mozilla-Status: 0009

My Comments: Firstly, there are a lot of people on my list, many of whom are
not on either the SS List or the Mindlist.  And since I will add anyone on
it who is interested, it is open.  Also, I don't believe that I am the sole
beneficiary because I am trying to share what little I know with those
reading this (look at the comments in the last posting from Browriter; I
think I gave him some advice that he says helped him so clearly I am not the
only one benefiting).  But most importantly, I am not looking to compete
with either the SS List or the Mindlist.  I only send out an e-mail once in
awhile with some of my comments, and the comments of others that I have
received.  Anyone one both the SS List and the Mindlist must receive more
posts than most people can reasonably read and still have a life involved
with many other aspects to it.  Another list, in my opinion, is not needed
and I have enough just putting together what I do send out from time to
time.  And I am not paid either, of course.  If you still want to be removed
from my list, let me know and I will remove you.  But I think you have some
great insights and I think it would be a shame.

Jobet: If you're not ready, then so am I, man.  Allow me to quote your note
and post my response to the mindlist. I am quite certain, there are many,
many other brothers in need of this kind of information. Of couse, when I
do, I'll remove all references to you.

My Comment: You can quote me on the Mindlist and you can mention my name.  I
did post once to the Mindlist offering anyone to be added to my list just by
asking.  And the offer is still open.

Art: I wonder if you have the 3 date situation.  I have met lots of women
lately.  Some are somewhat attractive and some are Ok but they are all
passionate about life.  I go out with these women and on the third date, I
lose all interest, that is, sexual interest.  It either starts out cold and
heats up or starts out hot and fizzles out.  Does this happen to you and how
do you handle it.

My Comments: I lose interest quickly in a lot of women.  I don't think we
are unique in this (hey, women lose interest sometimes faster than we do).
I think the trick is to just keep getting more!  My last serious girlfriend
had a quality that I had trouble finding with any other woman I was meeting
at the time:  I just wasn't bored when I was with her (with the others,
after 2-4 hours I was itching to get away, to breathe).  So don't assume all
women will give you this feeling, just keep trying them all out until you
find one that you have chosen and that makes you want to forget about the
rest.  Wwhen they buy a suit, most people will go into several stores and
try on different suits, different styles, makes, etc.  Many of us take more
care in buying an article of clothing than we do in selecting the right
person to spend time with.

Art: Also when I walk up and meet a BEAUTIFUL woman or a potential big
client, I become disassociated, no feeling either way, maybe more towards
aggressive and I want to open her to my sexuality too. I want to feel hot
towards a woman and send her the energy instead of feeling OK and or

My Comments: I am not sure that I get these feelings.  Personally, I feel
fairly neutral when I approach a woman but I have a positive, playful
mindset (but I am also watching and trying to determine if this woman would
be open to humour or should I keep it light but serious to begin with).  I
am consciously trying not to try (I have had women tell me I was trying too
hard and I have paid attention to this).  I think you need to design your
feelings and approach and there are a lot of techniques available to you
through NLP and Ross's materials for this.

Jake: SS is based on NLP - it is NLP, simply applied to to seduction. One of
the presuppositions of NLP is: if you're an adult and have had a reasonably
eventful life, you already have all of the resources you need.

My Comment: This reminds me of the SS tenet, "I am already the person who
knows how to do this."

Jake: The problem is one of access and anchoring, not acquisition.  You
already have "Power", or any other state you want.  Power is an interesting
word - it's a nominalization. I have absolutely no way
of telling what a sense of "Power" means to you. However, that's irrelevant.
I'm sure you know what "Power" means to you, correct? Now while you spend
some time remembering what it feels like to feel a sense of "Power",  I want
you to ask yourself some questions. For example, ask yourself, how do I know
this is a sense of "Power" instead of, oh, say, a REALLY intense urge to
fart? You might find yourself wondering, really wondering, when do I want to
feel a sense of power? What set of people do you want experience "Power"
around? Under what circumstances? Are there any siturations where feeling a
sense of "Power" works against your interest? As you ponder all these
questions, still feeling a sense of "Power", notice what things seem to be
reliably and consistently present.

My Comments: Your comments, which you have framed in what appears to me to
be NLP lingo (I have never directly studied NLP), relate to a personal,
individual view of power.  I think there are more universal concepts
involved in the this and I have a feeling we
will be learning more about this if we open our minds to this type of
information.  An interesting website about this is at which is on the 48 Laws of Power».

Jake:  In my opinion, "Power" in the sense of power over
others, such as the 48 Laws of Power», starts with power over yourself. Once
you get the personal power, collecting sheep, (err, followers, yeah, that's
it.)  which the 48 Laws
describes, becomes easier.

Ross: The problem with this philosophy is:
1. It tends to attract the kind of women who CRAVE being controlled...and
can you really respect someone like that? Is THAT the kind of woman you'd
want as a companion and friend as WELL as shtup? Does your buddy actually
like and RESPECT the women who respond to this?
2. You always have to be on guard..CONSTANTLY at watch for signs of
disrespect or a it WORTH having this "dictator" mentality?
Most assuredly not, I would think.

My Comment: Perhaps the way I described his philosopy came across too
harshly.  I have seen some of the variety of women who have responded to his
strategies and have seen how he does it which I can't fully explain here yet
other than to say that it is usually a lot more subtle in actual practice
than it may seem.  Part of his philosophy is that you have to do what you
want to do, you have to tell her what you want.  And while we debate about
how this is done (he says to just do it, that as you start doing this
despite worrying about how someone may react to it that it works and you get
used to being this way -- in other words the effort you refer to of always
being on guard is instead a new way of being that you become and then behave
naturally this way) he has been very successful with this.  And today he is
married to a very intelligent, successful woman who was one of four in his
stable at one time (and knew about the others).

Ross: (Commenting on my successful seduction mentioned in the last posting)
Well played in this case, however....but note again your own comments that
based on what you learned from her, you wouldn't want to go long term with
her or much beyond a fuck, as far as I can read....and weather being what it
is in Montreal this time of year, who can blame you for not wanting to meet
But I've found meeting for coffee isn't unreasonable a request on her
part: many women have legit physical safety issues, and meeting somewhere
the first time round makes it easy for her to feel safe? After all..what
could happen over coffee? I shudder to think the seductions that never would
have occurred, had I insisted they come over to my place, first go round.
Your friend has a very RIGID way of moving through the world...

My Comments:  This woman that I met confessed to me (with promises that this
would never happen again) that she had been in love twice before but cheated
on the two men she had been in love with repeatedly.  Without going into a
lot more details, that was enough for me to be on guard.   With regard to
the meeting for coffee or going over to someone's place (or having them over
to your place), Canada is quite a bit more safe than the U.S.  Not to say
that evil doesn't happen here, but I think you will find that people have a
greater feeling of safety here overall than in a major city in the U.S. and
going over to someone's house is not necessarily that unusual (especially
from the phone lines).  Further, before this happens you have usually spent
a reasonable amount of time on the phone and formed somewhat of an opinion
of who you are talking to (most women that I have spoken to on the phone
lines claim to be able to distinguish the strange ones from the normal
ones). Another thought I had that I think relates very much to Speed
Seduction» and my friend's techniques and is sort of highlighted by the
incident we are talking about, is the importance of every word that you say
(especially in the early stages of meeting a woman).  All great literature
when you study it ultimately points to how important and relevant every word
is to even the lengthiest of texts.  What you say to a woman when you first
meet her is clearly extremely critical -- we have all been blown off at some
time or other in our lives after barely getting a few words out of our
mouths, haven't we?  I think we can't underestimate the importance of the
specific words that we use with a woman in the early stages.

Oscar: The ideas and information seems to get better as you continue your
quest for seduction perfection. I consider these techniques for seducing
women work effectively in the world outside of women. In one's social or
business life people respond to the "indifferent" and "independant" approach
better than when one just tries to "suck up". Of course as I think about it
one can use the "independant" or indifferent approach even though you are in
the presence of another person with the intention of sucking up. One does
not have to act like a pussy with the hopes of sucking up.
I really like your information that refreshes ones memory of what we
sometimes know but fail to remember or use when that certain moment is

My Comment: It has to be a very surprising revelation to some (myself
included as I read your comments) that if they could only use what they have
already learned, knew or read about, that they could do or have anything
(within reason) that they wanted.  There is no question that if I could
(that's my own limiting belief speaking) access a slightly greater
percentage of the things I have learned about seduction or any other topic,
that it would increase my success exponentially.

Terry: None of my friends know of this technology (I have decided to fly
solo on this stuff).

My Comment: I understand why but you should consider letting some of your
friends or acquaintances know about it (those who are Nice Guys who need
help, someone you feel would benefit and where it would be almost a
charitable act to let them know about it).

Terry: I just don't want the gossip being, "Terry thinks he's some kind of
seducer guy" or some shit like that. I have some friends that would benefit
from this but no one would put in the work neccesary to get results. Better
left a secret I reckon.

My Comment: I have a 38 year old cousin who I believe is probably still a
virgin.  I sent his address to Yates (yat***j@ix***.com[ ? ]) and asked him to
send him a catalog and not to mention my name.  I hope my cousin took the

Terry: In your last post you said that you 'knew (this girl from the phone
lines) was attractive' what gave you this indication?

My Comment: Basically when they are very popular with guys (eg. when the
guys they meet call them back, if they had a lot of boyfriends, their
fashion sense, if they make a detailed comment about a physical feature such
as having seductive eyes, etc.).  I never ask them what they look like as
every guy does that.  I could ask what's their best feature. There are a lot
of things I listen for and I am getting better at it.

Terry: What would you have done if the chick was a hideous ditch pig?

My Comment: I am the master of the 20 second date.  I take one look at them
and if I really don't like what I see,  I feign a headache, tell them I have
a migraine and that it only came on after I knew they had left (I always
have them come to meet me -- usually I don't invite them to my place before
I have seen them, but this one I knew was going to be good) and that I would
have called and cancelled but I knew they had already left so I wouldn't
have been able to reach them.  Usually, I am out of there in a flash.  As I
write this, I think a lot of you may consider this a very valuable tip yet
it is standard operating procedure for me.

Bill: (Commenting on how to keep a woman's attention when there is someone
else trying to distract her from you) About two years ago I was at a body
building contest, I usually work security. There were two mega hot babes
(had their pictures in Playboy) working a booth for the two days. I started
chatting them up. Later that night I met them at Club Rio. Some other guy
has already got their attention. They seem to be really getting hot for him.
Each telling the other one at different times to dance with me. That was to
get rid of me. Anyway I finally hit a topic that really gets one of the
girls totally
focused in on me.   Well this guy leans over and whispers in her ear. Ending
of my conversation with her.

My Comment:  Very interesting and simple technique.  By speaking into her
ear you are almost recreating a phone call and she has to listen to what you
are saying to the exclusion of what other distractions are around her.

Wade: What could I do to make your list more useful to you and the
others that you post to.

My Comment: What would be most useful from yourself and others reading this
is to pass along their tactics, strategies, techniques, tricks, etc. of
seducing women that they have discovered or learned about on their journeys
through life. Preferably something that you feel that most people wouldn't
know otherwise.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

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