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"Shave and a haircut"

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Shave and a haircut
Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:17:59 -0500

A fun site to visit is which is about the
ByrdMan's Learned Rules of Relationships.  Rule number 52 is "Give
Bi-Curious women a quarter and tell them to call you once they have
satisfied their curiosity (Interesting note, They don't consider
sleeping around with women to be cheating, but "exploring their
sexuality". Go figure.)."

Here's another book offering advice on internet dating: 12.95 Plus $3.00 Shipping and Handling
To: Madeleine Sabol P.O. Box 110486 Aurora, CO 80042 Phone
1-888-234-1658 Email  Sno***r@ao***.com[ ? ]  Phone 1-888-234-1658.
Comments from anyone who gets this would be appreciated.
Flyer: I took a look at What they do is
direct you to a 900 number (though I didn't bother calling) and they
tell the viewer it is $3.99 per minute, with an average call about seven
minutes long. For those of us who have made it a point to become better
in our romantic life, common sense will tell you that acquiring those
special skills to acquire women are not something spit out to you in
seven minutes. Secondly, they say the advisors are women, I want to say
right here and now, that women have ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE in giving dating
advice to men. (I know this from past personal experiences years ago.)
Women will give advice to men that benefits the women, not the man. I
know that Ross will invite women to attend his SS seminars, and be on
his listservice.  RJ's  position is that SS is a language and a way to
communicate -- SS is one of the GREATEST things to come along, and I
will forever be thankful that Ross developed it, but it's meant to get a
chick to spread her legs,  and I believe it's a conflict of  interest to
include women.

My Comment: Ross has taken the position that this is something you do
with a woman and not to her, which is different from your concept
outlined above.  Part of what I have been learning is that it doesn't
matter what she thinks, so what difference does it make if she's in the
seminar or not?

EB: (Commenting on would be suspicious of
this site.  I don't believe that a woman knows how to seduce a woman.
Most of my women friends have told me:
"Just be your self"
"Be an honest and dependable nice guy" i.e. a supplicator.
But the question is, are there any brothers out there with track records
who are available for telephone consultations for a fee?

My Comment: I think you need to study your SS materials and practice,
practice, practice. If you want to pay for telephone consultations, I
would imagine Ross would like to hear from you.

Frederick: I had to respond to a recent post about shaving one's
privates. Several years ago a girlfriend and I saw shaved privates on a
movie we were watching and we determined to shave each other. OUCH!
First, nicks! Second, three weeks of razor stubble burn (unless we were
to have shaved every day), Third, square-cut hairs that were so strong
that they would stick through underwear (I can't believe I'm saying this
in public). In other words, we did not have that great of an experience.
Now, I do give myself and my lovers a trim when we need it. But, I use
the sideburn trimmer on my electric shaver with an angle cut to make the
hair ends softer (also, point the trimmer head away from the sensitive
areas so that it there is a misfire, something important doesn't get
nicked). If you must use a pair of scissors, I suggest blunt, kid's
scissors as a safer alternative. I have found that approaching a woman
with a sharp pair of scissors tends to induce a panic reaction. . . Most
women have loved getting a nice trim with the electric trimmer. A little
reassurance, careful work, and promises of things to come (her) also
helps. Heck, its kind of nice to have that little vibrating thing around
as a side benefit. You can hold it in your hand and use your vibrating
finger (my favorite), or use one of the many safe, smooth, non-cutting
surfaces on the razor. Unfortunately, the batteries don't always last as
long as I would like.

My Comment:  When Max mentioned this shaving thing to me, he pointed out
that if you look closely in most porno movies you will notice that the
men have all shaved their balls.  Being the open minded individual I am,
I have tried it.  First, as I mentioned before, don't use an electric
razor (it caused immediate tiny cuts and bleeding no matter how gentle I
tried to be).  Max said he goes in the bathtub with a blade and shaving
cream; I just sat on the toilet seat with my Mach 3, pulled the skin
taut, and gently ran the blade over the target areas.  I will say this,
and it brings up an interesting topic, that I find it feels great and
makes you feel sexy.  This is an interesting topic because I think a lot
of guys don't relate feeling sexy to being a man; this is more what you
would expect from a woman.  But it speaks to your attitude and I think
can be an important element in one's appeal to women.

Zvi: Actually, the women I've spoken to usually tell me how most men are
not "all that" in bed to put it mildly.  My impression is that most
women -- if I may generalize -- think that men suck in bed and that it's
rare to find a good lover.

My Comment: I recently dated a very intelligent, very attractive woman
and we had a discussion about how capable men are with women and she
said that her experience is that most guys know how to handle themselves
quite well. In terms of ability in bed, I was with a woman recently who
told me that it was the first time she was in bed with a guy who spend
more than half an hour to an hour and who didn't just roll over and go
to sleep afterwards.  So it seems that there are a lot of men out there
who could use some advice.

Daniel: The phrase in the last communiqu=E9 which struck me was:  You
have to lie to women and schmooze them and say what they want to hear so
that don't have to think they are giving it away for free.

My Comment: Where did you get this from?  I specifically made the point
that I didn't agree with Max's tactics of saying absolutely anything to
a woman to get her
in bed. I would like to understand this better because I don't want
reading this to get the same impression.

Daniel: As far as doing women who are friends....they sometimes say to
me NO
because it will "change the friendship"---I say it will only be on

My Comment: That's a good answer!

Daniel: Most girls who I have found easy in the last three years have
been good for sex but way too ugly to take to see my mom or sometimes
too bad for a theater where the lights might go on-------.

My Comment: Looks like you need an upgrade in quality of women...

Daniel: I was sick---last time the little woman said (after coffee in
her house)
"lets have sex".. And I stupidly said, ok.....She tried to trap me two
months later into marriage and I had to meet her at a medical clinic
(she lied about a pregnancy).....I have been far more careful with whom
I mingle in this small,  talentless, town.

My Comment: I think that what you described can only happen depending on
what happened during or after the sex -- clearly more went on here than
just a romp in the sack and then she tells you she's pregnant and you
have to marry her.  I
assume you used protection (I always do, to be sure that what you
above can't happen -- at least, I am as careful as can be so it is quite
unlikely) and you should have a pretty good idea if it wasn't you.

Rod: I know you and some other guys on this list usually have 2, 3, 4 or
women going at once, and I also know that all the women are aware that
 are dating others.

My Comment: Yes, in general they would be aware but not of any specific
details.  This is a good topic to bring up.  When the question of "are
you sleeping with anyone else?" comes up, Rick advocates answering
"Yeah, you wanna hear about it?"  I think that's a good way to do it for
certain women, but others may just walk or give you the "me or them"
choice.  Making it fun, is, I think, a great approach -- what's the most
popular song these days?  "A little bit of Monica, a little bit of
Erica, etc." and it's fun.  Women are all singing this and getting a
kick out of it.  Everything is how it's framed.  Personally, I base my
relationships on honesty, trust, and respect.  And I explain that this
means that when I am with them I expect to be treated with HTR.  I also
frame my relationships on the "friends' frame" and not the dating frame,
where I want our relationship to be similar to what you have with your
best friend.  With your best friend you could see them every day or only
once a month but the feelings are the same when you see them.  Your best
friend doesn't put rules and regulations on you and I am not looking for
a relationship like that.  When we are together, I expect HTR; when I am
with you, there are no other women.  If when we are together you don't
do your best to make it special, or if you don't treat me with HTR, I
will be out of there.  I have no doubt that this attitude may change if
I were to fall madly in love with someone, though.

Rod: Well, I find myself in the same situation, although I only have 2
girlfriends right now (more to come soon, I hope).  One of them is OK
with me seeing other people and the other one isn't so sure she's going
to stick around.

My Comment: Depending on how you dealt with this, I wouldn't be too =
happy with your results.  The one that is ok with it would make me think
that she's out with a lot of guys.  The other one is dancing around
control of the situation and it looks like she will tell you "it's her
way or the highway" at some point.  What you do in your private time is
not negotiable and not up for discussion.  In a nice way, you have to be
in control and the boss.

Rod: My question is, how do you initially broach the subject?

My Comment: If there's one thing women speak up about, it's this. They
will bring it up.  You don't need to; what you need to do is handle it
when it does come up.

Rod: Do you mention it in passing after you've screwed around a bit?

My Comment: Think about what they would do.  In my experience, they
wouldn't say a word to you, would they?  When you first start going out
with a sharp woman, she keeps her cards close to the vest, doesn't she?
They will later on act like it is normal that you shouldn't be with
anyone else and act like they expect your fidelity.  This usually means
you've let them get too comfortable with you.  Women need to have a
sense of the possibility of loss in the situation (meaning that you
could dump them at anytime) to feel true passion for you.

Rod:  Do you tell them during the initial date?

My Comment: I don't advocate lying, but I don't suggest suicide either.

Rod: Before I came clean with both of them, with one I just never
brought it up,
 although I would tell her all the time about the women I would flirt
with and hit on.  The other one I told when I first started seeing her
that I had someone else as well, and she said, "OK, well, I'm going to
show you that I'm the only one you want to be with."  That's fine with
me, but I'm not cut out for monogamy.  I didn't mention it anymore after
that (no need to rub salt in the wound), but she wound up assuming that
I unloaded the original girlfriend.  The other night I broke it down and
told her explicitly that I was going to see other people.

My Comment: Stick to your guns -- I know it will be a rough ride but you
can't let her control what you do.  I believe she may react badly at
first but they will usually come around afterwards if they really care
about you.

Rod: Like I said, I dunno if that's going to jive with her or not.
Anyways, I'd like some comments from the list about ways others have
handled this successfully.

Greg (Commenting on my comment "I really don't know why guys do this to
begin with.  If it was a good fuck,  I usually want a repeat
performance.  If it wasn't, sayonara, baby.  I often tell women that a
one night stand, for me, usually only means I didn't enjoy it enough to
want to repeat it."): Well, that's very blunt.

My Comment: Wait a minute!  I tell them this BEFORE I sleep with them!
Usually after, if I didn't like it, they don't hear from me or I change
the nature of my
conversations with them (I am not so blunt after, and maybe I should =
But the trick here is that I am challenging them to be a great fuck or
won't get it again!

Greg: I go more for the "It's not you, it's me" ploy, but I'm taking
your advise next time and being more direct if I didn't like it.  I
just hate to tell a girl she sucks in bed.  I would rather let her go
feeling better about herself and turned off by me at the same time
rather than pull away and make her want more.  Kind of hard.

Greg (Commenting on my comment "I will go into more detail about this
later, but don't believe everything women tell you.  They aren't stupid.
 They often go with guys they know are not exactly the best thing for
them only because these are the guys who turn them on.  The nice guys
bore the shit out of them.  They will tell you
things to make you feel special, but that doesn't mean that you are any
better than any other guy they slept with.  From what I read below, you
probably got them because of your SS attitudes, not because you are =
anything else.  And who is beating them, cheating on them, ignoring
them?  Guys that they want obviously.  And women are such liars -- you
really can't believe almost anything they tell you.  Yes, there are
exceptions, but the thing they lie the most about is how much dick they
are getting.  And in this subject, I have a hard time believing that I
am any different to them to any other guy who can turn them on."):
Yes, they lie quite a bit.  One told me it had been a year, then later
said it was one month but that didn't count.  Whatever!  Another said
she never does this (sleeping with someone so soon, I'd guess) but she
was very loose.  Make that two of those so far.

My Comment: Hey, I was once told by a quite intelligent woman that she
had not slept with anyone else since we had stopped seeing each other
she didn't sleep with anyone else for like 6 months after).  Well, she's
a Libra and a friend of mine told me all about Libras.  She fit the
classic mold; probably did 10-20 guys since me but lives in denial about
it...  Yes, it's true I don't know for sure but everything else fit so
exactly into the pattern that you have to be realistic.

Greg: The guy I know is cheating on this new girl and he is a real
asshole.  She tore up his other girl's car, and then said she'd have his
baby if he asked.  It's so damn silly the way she talked shit about him,
and would go right back if she could.
Just the usual stuff.  And sure they might be lying that I'm good to
them, but
I'll take the compliments.  Why not?  If it's good for you're ego, take

My Comment: Classic -- the jerk has got her by the short hairs.  She'd
have his baby yet obviously this is not father material.  I am not
telling you not to take the
compliments, just don't let yourself be fooled by them.  Last Thursday I
was out at a bar with a couple of friends who aren't into SS.  One is
very good with women, the other does well but I wonder how come.  There
were these two girls there, one of whom I knew.  The friend who I wonder
about liked the one I knew so I brought them over and introduced them.
I leaned over to the girl and told her in her ear "My friend really
wanted to meet you but don't tell him I told you".  He proceeded to talk
to her about business for about a half hour (I was bored to shit) but
she was listening intently and ended up giving him her number.  He owes
me for that one.

Greg: She was probably bored too, but couldn't say no to the poor guy.

My Comment: I think differently.  She knew he was interested -- his
posturing, being cool, laid back, a bit aloof, had no effect because
after what I told her, she knew the score.  That is what interested her.
 He's a good looking, nice guy.  She knew he would want her number
because of what I told her, so she was listening to his nonsense knowing
clearly that he would eventually get past it, especially if
she encouraged him a bit.  So this didn't bore her.

Greg: Just use him as an example of what's out there.  What if she's
been meeting that kind of person all her life?  Do you think you could
have excited her more than

My Comment: She really wasn't my type.  He is a good guy -- don't get me
wrong.  He just started talking about boring stuff, which is not what
he's all about either.

Greg: You may live in an area where there are more successful men, and
almost sure of that.  In Kentucky there are some pretty girls and some
really ugly
ones too, but there are a ton of men who are totally brain dead here.

My Comment: My point is that if you look around at all the good looking
women out there, and maybe the situation is different in Kentucky, but I
think you will find
a lot of these women have significant others.  Here, most of them seem
I have a hard time running into a good looking woman who isn't involved
some guy in some way.  Clearly there are a lot of guys here that are
the grade.

Greg: I know some have been very surprised by what I say and some
haven't, but most importantly as far as morals go, I haven't hurt anyone
or made any enemies.  I think that was the point of all this.  A little
sex is not going to degrade someone and make her feel victimized, raped,
whatever and is usually something they would like to enjoy from that
same jerk again!  :)

My Comment: Don't get fooled by women making you think that sex is a
problem.  Watch Sex in The City and you'll see how some women look at
sex.  They love it and are just as capable of meaningless encounters as
men are.  Whether they want to bluntly admit it or not.  Listen, I am
not saying that I don't think that I am better than most guys out there.
 What I am saying is that I don't believe it when women say things like
that.  So don't fool yourself.

Rob: I order a pheromone cologne called REALM from California.  I got
cologne, pit
stick, body wash, the entire shebang.   No noticeable results.  I get
comments from women I don't know all the time about my usual cologne I
wear, which is Aqua di Gio by Armani.  Women seem to really love that
stuff, and so do I!!  Pheromone colognes are BULLSHIT if you ask

My Comment:  The pheromone cologne I bought also hasn't seemed to have
any effect.  Anyone with different experiences to report?
cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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