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Sssspank de grrl!
March 11, 2000 2:40:34 PM GMT


I was at a breakfast seminar/conference this morning and this really cute HB
sits next to me (I was already seated).  She tells me she just returned to
Montreal after living somewhere in the U.S. for the last 8 years.  I asked
her what brought her back to Montreal and she mentioned this guy (who I
happened to know his cousin) that she is seriously involved with.  I played
it really cool, friendly but very aloof (didn't look at her hardly and she's
quite hot).  Before she left, I bent over closely to her and said in her ear
"Good luck with Darren (the BF), but sometimes what you think you want
(pause) can be very different (pause) from what will truly, (pause) DEEPLY
fulfill you."  She sits back, eyes wide open, and goes "Verrrry
interesting!" and then asks for my business card.  She gave me hers after
(remember, this was a business function).  I am not sure if I should follow
up or not, and if so, how to.  Suggestions?

SpaceLord: Tsk tsk tsk, that pesky conscience of yours:) Fuck her, your not
looking for a relationship, she's already in one and she will prolly fuck
your brains out. Go for it!

My Comment:  I am not sure the best way to go about it.  I thought about
waiting awhile and seeing if she calls me and if not, sending her an email
as follows:
"Sometimes what you think you want, turns out to be different from what will
truly, DEEPLY fulfill you.
If, for at least once in your lifetime, you would like to experience an
uncomplicated, unrestricted, uninhibited adventure of unbridled proportions,
give me a call.
Clifford"     What do you think?
It seems the more I am focused on work and not women, they are coming out of
the woodwork...

SpaceLord: Cliff, all the guys I talk to tell me the same thing. There's
such a thing as trying too hard. Everything changed for me when I just said
fuck it! It's  really amazing how that works.

Peter (Commenting on Mystery's comments: "There was a girl at a club today -
she was on a balcony and the club was almost empty... So I tried going to
the balcony but the bouncer dude said it was closed...."):   Hey, Mystery!
Now I vaguely remember a play by the Bard himself, Shakespeare, could it be
"Romeo and Juliet"? that involves a chick on a balcony...  In any case,
don't WAVE at strangers. That PRESERVES the feeling that everything is OK
and that there's NOTHING MUCH going on, and that they're FREE TO DIRECT
Instead POINT at her.  Get eye contact, keep pointing, and WAVE HER IN, PULL
HER IN, whatever it takes to get her to approach you, to FORCE her to get
off the fence and COMMIT to FINDING OUT what it is you want to tell her.
Why does this work?  Social proof: as long as you just vaguely request
attention from 'someone', then everyone assumes that 'someone else' is
taking care of you, or that 'someone else' must know that you are OK.  On
the other hand, if you single ONE person from the crowd, by pointing them
out, the other people in the crowd now KNOW that there is something 'not
OK', and that you are singling out this one person to tell your story to.
They'll even HELP you to get her attention focused on YOU!   Of course, only
use this method in emergencies  :)

Dancing Shoes: I hope that you do or at least that maybe you can help me
with some information in the area of affirmations.  I know a little about
them I have read many books that refer to them on a very regular basis but
none of them explain how to use them or give any examples of effective
affirmations. I have studied some of Ross Jeffries stuff but still he has
not covered affirmations in his news letters.

My Comment:  I think you should buy some of Ross's products, such as his
Unstoppable Confidence tapes to get some really good affirmations.  One
thing that they recommend is using "you" in your statements to yourself
instead of "I".

Reggie:  Regarding Ben's comment on Tryptophan and Growth Hormone.  5-HTP
Tryptophan is still legal and actually 5 times more potent.  The cycle works
this way: Tryptophan gets absorbed from the food you eat, gets converted
into 5-HTP tryptophan, then converted into 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin),
then finally into melatonin.  SomatoPro is a precursor to GHB and one of the
safer precursors.  Even after repeated use, it will still put you to sleep
although it make take longer and you will have insane dreams.  It will also
release GH.  5-htp can be bought in almost any health food store.  Somatopro
can be found at and other online drug stores like
International Anti-Aging systems.  I think.  I believe that
somatopro will be banned shortly in the states.  5-htp is safe.

eclypz (Commenting on Mystery (Commenting to Adam):    Dude man, fight fire
WITH fire - what you did was plain ol' AFC.  Work on it cause as your self
esteem raises, your behaviors will change to reflect the new levels of
greatness that you will climb to.  A TRUE PUA would not raise his voice and
grab a girl's arm - he would simply vanish - she turns around and notices
she doesn't have a ride home.  A call from her the next day and you tell her
you figured she was having such a good time with those guys that you didn't
want to spoil the fun so you called your backup chick.  That is what ANY
TRUE PUA would do ... right Craig?  Roadking?  Sindrome_K?"):   Well, I'm
not so sure, Mystery. You see, I think Adam overreacted, yes. It was
emotionally driven, yes (just as a side note, if you react, it doesn't
matter whether it is logical or emotional- it's still a reaction. To RESPOND
is in my opinion, the best move. By the way, long live those who incorporate
logic AND embody emotion.). Anyways, Mystery, I think the call is a very
subjective one. You know, it might even be looked at as having a tantrum by
leaving. I won't say I know exactly how to respond to that situation. I do
know that somewhere between blowing up over it, and just leaving, lies the
perfect balance.

eclypz (Commenting on: "Mystery: There was a girl at a club today - she was
on a balcony and the club was almost empty.  I thought since she is alone I
would wave hi and then slowly make my way up there.  When I waved at her
(actually just before) she looked way.  I kept eye contact on her for a good
25 seconds simply waiting for her to look at me again but instead she didn't
(although I swear I was in her peripheral (ouch) vision and she KNEW I was
there ... it was almost comical).  So I tried going to the balcony but the
bouncer dude said it was closed.  So there are three people total up there
and the only target was in a CLOSED section.  Fuck that bouncer but I
couldn't go up there. So I returned to my place at the bar that she was
overlooking and I swear there was NOTHING more interesting to look at for
this girl but me sitting there with a big ass cheeso smile on my face
waiting for her to look my way. She wouldn't and instead watched the dance
floor of literally 4 bozos.  I looked away for 10 seconds and then QUICKLY
spun around to see if she was looking - NOPE.  No smile, no interest no
NOTHING.  No attention - fucking catatonic she was.  So ... what could I
have done?  Sure I could throw a straw at her (spit balls?) but what would
have allowed me to connect with her?  So I instead opted to sarge a girl
near me on the bar level and never got a chance to sarge the balcony
chick."):   I don't know how many times I've seen this kind of thing. It's
funny. I go to the gym at my college here, and there are alot of mirrors
around the joint. Well, damned if I'm not being watched at all times by at
least one gal. One time I noticed very clearly that as I was passing a girl
she would use her peripheral vision and wait until I was behind her. Then,
after she thought my back was to her an I was walking away, she would turn
and look straight at me, unless of course I was about to turn around.
REMEMBER, there are alot of mirrors in this gym area, and so they didn't
realize I was actually watching them from a different angle. So here's the
fun part, alright. I'm walking past a girl as usual and notice her analyzing
the situation like normal. Once I was right behind her, instead of
continuing with my walk, I stopped right behind her and went back in the
opposite direction. She's thrown off by now and readjusts her eagle eyes. I
then turn around AGAIN!
Well, needless to say this went on for a while, me going back and forth and
her eyes following my every move practically! Of course, when these things
happen, they're all about acting like it didn't, so that makes it even
cuter. You know, AFC also stands for average frustrated chick!

eclypz (Commenting on Mystery's comments: "(BTW: I got as far as the # close
on the bar girl but it went sour - well actually not sour - just the
qualification process failed).
me: What steps should we take to continue this?
bargirl: Well, you can give me your #?
me: I don't give my # usually - how bout we trade ... fair?
bargirl: Well, I don't give out my #."):   Ok, on one hand, you are pacing
her reality. But at the same time, you might
be presupposing that there's really a "barrier" in the first place. Now, I'd
like to hear Ross's opinion from a hardcore NLPish perspective, because I
run into this situation with everything in my life, not just women.

eclypz (Commenting on the rest of Mystery's attempt to get the bargirl's
number): "me: It looks like we have met an impasse. What steps should we
take to cross this barrier?
bargirl: I guess we can't.
me: It was a pleasure meeting you. (stand up - a pull away / slow eject)":
Ok so you stood your ground with your number. I would have related to her
with your weariness of giving out your number, and then gone into something
about how every now and again you see an opportunity like this

eclypz (Continuing:  bargirl: It was nice meeting you.
me: (waiting, having turned my back for a time to make her feel like that
was it).
me finally: Is there anything we can do to cross this painful barrier?"):
Hey Mystery, here is what I was talking about. Maybe you needed to pace her
reality. But the only one seeming to experience any pain over this barrier
is you. To her, the barrier could be the size of a playing card. Or it could
be as big as a skyscraper. You don't know. That's why I recommend you
"Playing" around and having a ball with her mental images. Say something
like "This wall you have, is it made of something? What color is it? Can you
climb it like those wallclimbing games at sporting goods stores?"

eclypz (Continuing comments:) "bargirl: I don't think so.
me: Fair enough.  She asks for MY # but won't GIVE hers.  I can't GIVE mine
alone.  She would NOT call."):  No? How do you know this? Is it a voice
inside your head, or is it a feeling? I have an intuition about you Mystery.
You have been quite successful at this whole seduction thing, yes? It seems
to me as well, that you have a real knack for remaining detached from a
situation. Its almost as if there's a little calculator that's unique for
you. We all have this kinda thing, but yours is decidedly much more logical,
am I right? In this computer there are probably all different "programs" if
you will, that run at different times when needed. Well in this storage,
your mind has decided that the formula : ME + GIVING OUT NUMBER = 0.  That's
a pretty good equation there. It's right alot of the time, Mystery. But, as
Mr B. once said, "even a stopped clock is right twice a day." Why don't you
have a little fun with this. As playfully as you can, go through your
calculator and add this one note to each of your programs: "Answers Subject
to Change". Because you know what? some day, some where, some one is gonna
totally shake up life as you think you know it, and when you realize this is
happening, when you do get this pleasant phone call from a woman who knows
what she wants and wasn't afraid to call to get it, you'll be so blown out
of the water, that you'll have a harder time adapting to these new ideas and
beliefs,  than if  you open yourself up to this incredible, mysterious,
new direction. Now, I said all of this for two reasons. First, I
think you needed a fresh perspective. The other reason: I will let you
figure it out.
Just one last comment about the bar girl. Actually, Ross, if you're still
with me. I read something really nice that you either wrote or were
paraphrasing from someone else. It was something about what to say to a girl
who won't stay on the phone. You said something like
"opportunities.......someone who can recognize one......act on it...." I
apologize for the bad recreation!!!!!
Lastly(for real) The girl on the balcony? I would have written an intriguing
little note, folded it into a plane and tossed it up her way. Of course she
wouldn't look at it right away, but go on with your business and her
interest would be too sparked to ignore it. Of course this is all

Horndog (Commenting on Mystery (Commenting to Adam): "Regarding your
behavior when your girl was having fun with the flirting: your behavior was
casting huge proofs of insecurity. Dudes who behave like that have been
labeled MORON in my book. "):    Amen, Amen, and AMEN. This chyk is jerking
your chain...a REAL PUA would use the situation to JERK HERS instead!
"obtain a gaggle of girls around yourself rather than throw temper tantrum "
Instead of parking your dumb AFC ass at the bar, go hit on all the other
chyks in the joint. Why waste time stewing over the ho? "You wigged out like
a mamby pamby CHICK." Again, DITTO. Jealousy is a game chyks just LOVE to
play...they get jealous of each other, jealous of you, jealous of your
hobbies, whatever. The minute you play along with that, you become just as
much a woman as they are.   "A TRUE PUA would not raise his voice and grab a
girl's arm - he would simply vanish - she turns around and notices she
doesn't have a ride home." Yeah, baby! Sssspank de grrl! Knock some sense
into her (figuratively speaking). You're placing too much importance on a
specific chyk, a BIG no-no in the SS thing. All the millions of chyks in the
world and you blow a gasket over THIS one? COME ON, buddy, do what Ross sez
in the first book. GET A LIFE! A life that includes as many OTHER chyks as
possible. When one drops the ball, blow her off and go tackle
another one. If you come from some cultures where they consider this chyk's
game an affront to one's manhood, answer me this: who's more of a man...the
guy who's getting the crap knocked out of him beefing with other dudes, or
the guy who walks off and continues banging all the other chyks he can get
his hands on? "A call from her the next day and you tell her you figured she
was having such a good time with those guys that you didn't want to spoil
the fun so you called your backup chick." If it were me, I wouldn't even
answer her calls (I have caller ID) for a couple of days, if ever. When you
do talk to her again, be unavailable as you are going out with someone new.

Eric: (Commenting on "Ben: Tryptophan works very well for me... too bad it's
illegal to sell in the US now.  Melatonin worked for one night and then
stopped.  To be frank, I've never heard of the sleep effects of GH
releasers.  I suppose that if you use it once every 2-3 weeks it would work
for a much longer time.  I do know that in most individuals, if it is used
consecutively for a week the body adapts."):   Tryptophan is legal to BUY in
the U.S.(from overseas mostly) but
companies are forbidden, by the FDA not Congress or the like, to sell it
until they are sure it is safe..legality has nothing to do with it. However,
there is a tryptophan precursor called 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) that is
derived from plants, so it's safer and the hydroxy group appears to make it
more effective when it hits the bloodstream. I have some and it works
great..I have a hell of an attitude when I wake up after taking it. Growth
hormones are EXCELLENT for sleep. Gamma-hydroxy-butyrate (GHB) is/was used
for exactly it has some powerful aphrodisiac properties but
someone had to try a lot of it with alcohol (a no-no - this can kill you)
and now it's a bitch to get anywhere. I hear there is a legal "precursor"
for GHB that sells in the stores called "Renewtrient"(I don't know the
actual chemical structure yet or I'd fill ya in:) that is as effective.
Just thought someone might like to know..  You can get them at Health food
stores or Co-ops. With a simple Altavista search for "Renewtrient" I found
the following..
As for 5-HTP, you can find some here...
If this doesn't have prices that are acceptable, or inventory, then the key
words for Altavista are "hydroxy tryptophan" and of course the other was

Matt: I'm an avid bodybuilder (5'10, 220, 12%) - GH releasers DO NOT work -
ghb and ghb precursors do have a fat loss effect - and a small dose of a ghb
precursor will relax you a bit/ maybe give a slight euphoria.  A moderate
dose (3 grams for somebody my size) will give you an excellent night's sleep
in only 3-6 hours.  Ghb precursors are completely safe as long as the user
does not combine them with other drugs, alcohol, or overdose.  All the
deaths and horror stories you hear are from people who will combine it with
vicadin/liquor etc...
The site they are referring to,aka has an
excellent article for not this past Friday, but the Friday before called
"The Big Woof" - it is about supplication and why it is bad although they
don't use the word supplication.

Joseph: This woman named Eurydice writes the sex column in Gear magazine (no
site yet).  I heard her on the rock 101 morning show.  I have a couple of
issues of Gear and am going to subscribe.  The two issues I bought had Diary
of a
Nymphomaniac and Voyeur Dorm.  She wrote one article I bought the magazine
for, about how women bs when they say they want sweet/sensitive.  She wrote
that guys should convey sexuality to get what they want.   world of sex archive

Theo: Did you or anybody else get to backup I wanted to do so myself, but the site
has been removed!

Reddog: (Commenting on "I had a hot blonde girlfriend for about 6 months,
and when we decided to go to Brennan's, in Marina del Rey (a bar), she
immediately whittled her way between a bunch of men playing darts.  She
quickly started flirting with all of them (an obvious test)...and they all
pretty much formed a circle around her and nonchalantly wouldn't let me get
near her... under the guise of waiting to play darts.  At first I said,
"Whatever!" I'm confident enough to know that she's coming home with me, not
them.  So I went off and got a beer and sat by myself. But then I started
getting pissed.  I mean... what a slam!  We come to a bar to spend time
together, and she wanders off and flirts with other guys???  This is a
fucking insult.  So I got up and grabbed her and told her "We're leaving...
NOW!"  Smoke must have been coming out of my ears.  She tried to play dumb,
saying things like, "Why are you so mad?" and "I was just playing darts?"
Yeah, right.  She was flirting, hardcore. So I said either she gets in the
car or she can find her own way home.  She got in the car and could tell
that I was fuming... although I didn't say a word. I think it was the fact
that I was ready to walk away from her and leave her... combined with the
fact that I think she liked that I was jealous, and was MAN enough to do
something about it.  But by the time we got back on the highway, she was
already begging me to pull over and get a hotel room because she couldn't
wait the half hour it would take to get home to fuck my brains out.  My
point is, I'd probably ended up with a much different result if I tried to
engage the group of guys with some kind of macho bullshit, rather than
simply handling my woman.  Remember... if some other guy is flirting with
your chick... it's because SHE'S not using the bitch shield."):      Not a
bad approach at all.  Alternatively, you could just turn the tables on her.
Start flirting with some girl who's attractive enough to be a threat to her.
If she's interested in holding on to you, she'll cut that off in a

Mystery (Commenting on Clifford's comment that women have TV mentalities):
They have MTV mentalities.  The set should not go over 25 minutes - unless
you instant date it.  25 is the MAX BTW - it should be 15 min.  5 to kino of
hands should be good.  Close at 15 is best - over that and you enter damage

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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