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"Playing gin rummy with a war vet"

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Playing gin rummy with a war vet
Sat, 02 Sep 2000 10:01:20 -0400

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Souris is going to Australia shortly and would be interested in meeting
anyone there who can assist in the noble pursuit of Australian women...  If
interested, write me and I will forward your response to him.

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Still looking for those in Montreal and Toronto to email me, so if you
haven't please do so.

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Mystery (note that the sections beginning with ">" are excerpts from
previous emails and the current comments follow afterwards):
>And the one I have been using lately (adapted from Ross) is, "Excuse me,
>forgive the interruption, but I just had to give you a compliment."
(Pause
>and wait for
>her to ask while you look in her eyes).  When she asks what it is, you say
>"I find you carry yourself with an elegance that I find very attractive
and
>I wanted to meet you, my name is..."

This may be useful in a 1:1 but if you 1:2 it you need to use groupset
tactics otherwise the obstacle will feel instantly alienated and pull the
target away from you.  We must preface the OPENER with the TYPE of set it's
geared for.  This is a 1:1 OPENER only.  It's the confidence and honesty
that is attractive in this opener but again, one in a 1:1 situ.

My Comment: No question about it.  I have been typically a 1:1 player, but
I've lately been thinking of expanding my comfort zone...

Mystery: Yeah, this is good because MOST HB's are in groupsets.  RARELY does
one find an HB sitting alone.  Unless you are just going for the Bs.
>D.S.: It's funny, your line is similar to one I've just thought of to use
>on
>the
>type of woman that is used to frequent compliments on her beauty. "Excuse
>me," you say, "I don't usually stop random strangers on the street, but I
>saw you from over there and you're absolutely radiating success and
>accomplishment.  Have you like recently got a huge promotion or like a big
>break in your career, or do you just know some trick I don't?"
>I think this one's gonna bring in the home telephone numbers.  I wonder
>what
>you think.

Mystery: Saying "Excuse me" is stereotypical.  I don't use it (or if I do I
kick
myself after).  I also am not the first to introduce my name.  I wait for
her to ask or exchange names in the close.  More mysterious and also allows
you to gauge her interest.  If she says, "I'm Becky, what's your name?" I
know
she has interest and I can start going light kino right away.

My Comment: I find "Excuse me" and/or "forgive the interruption" is a
politeness in which you take permission to intrude and talk to someone who
is otherwise a total stranger.  As far as who gives the name first, I
usually say something that continues "...and I wanted to meet you. My name
is ..." to which they always give me their name.  I think expecting them to
have interest (as per your tactic outlined above) at this early stage is
very iffy.  Yes, they can have interest and this will make your mission
easier, but if there's no skill involved (i.e. she just likes you
immediately), it doesn't take a lot of ability to move that forward.

Mystery: It IS, however, supplicative.  You only need to say SOMETHING to
get the attention.  "HI" does it.  It's a subtle thing but EXCUSE ME is
asking for her
to EXCUSE you, and FORGIVE THE INTERRUPTION is asking for forgiveness.  HI
... that is a greeting.  they wont have interest at this time.  In fact,
they will have so little interest that they will unlikely remember your
name.  Nor will you remember hers because she is not THAT important to you
... it's just her looks that would make her REMEMBERED and to an alpha male»
beauty is common and therefore you would not 'remember' her name soon after.
Just wait for her to ask YOU in a few minutes ... what do you need to
exchange handles for right away
anyways?  It conveys INTEREST on YOUR PART.  Wait for HER to do the name
thing.  The no name exchange thing also works in your favour because 1) it
adds mystery, 2) is a test to see her interest, 3) keeps you from the
embarrassing "what was your name again" or her negging you with "I'm sorry I
forgot your name."  Leave it for the end ... after all, I'm a stud.  I meet
lots of people.  I certainly don't need to know a girl's name unless I plan
on knowing her longer than this time.  Be a challenge to her.

My Comment:  At this stage of the interaction, I think it is debatable
whether this is supplicative or not.  To supplicate means "to propose from a
junior position," but even someone in a superior position can be polite when
they are intruding on a stranger.  More importantly, this REALLY works well.

Mystery :(More from Mystery on my comment from above "I think expecting them
to have interest (as per your tactic outlined above) at this early stage is
very iffy.  Yes, they can have interest and this will make your mission
easier, but if there's no skill involved (i.e. she just likes you
immediately), it doesn't take a lot of ability to move that forward."):
Right.  She will NEVER ask your name right away.  It won't happen until
you've had some time to CONVEY yourself to her.  When she finally asks your
name you can say to yourself ... "I'm IN!"  If you have NO interest at all
(name or no name) then you can eject with a PLEASURE MEETING YOU and you
save face by not having bothered asking her name and conveying your interest
in her that way.  Make HER ... come to YOU.
>My Comment: I think anything that is down to earth and which stays away
>from
>commenting on a woman's looks is a good thing.  Ross compliments energy,
>movement and how they carry themselves and I think that's great stuff.
One
>that has also worked very well for me is a variation on the "Don't I know
>you from somewhere?" line.  I go up, look like I know here and say "Aren't
>you...you know, you look exactly like....it's amazing how you look like
>this
>person...." then I decide if I think she has a sense of humour or not.  If
>yes then, "You look exactly like (stretch this out)...someone I should
>meet!"  If not, then "you know you aren't who I thought you were, but I
>would still like to meet you.  My name is..."

Mystery: I don't like the contingency plan of this one.  The first part is
cute (when
done with a cheeky smile) but again, giving your name is something you
should not do.  Just shake her hand and zig to the next routine like the
Elvis script or some shit.

My Comment: Why don't you like the contingency plan?  I learned this one the
hard way! I have done it many, many, many times and if she doesn't look like
she's
going to laugh your most likely outcome is an immediate cold shoulder.
Being flexible has turned this around for me several times.

Mystery: The whole thing rings of 1:1 AFCness.  Notice how you bring up the
PRESENT situ of MEETING?  Why?  Why not instead on your immediate approach
bring her head somewhere else so she doesn't even THINK about the fact that
she is meeting someone new.  Like, "Oh man!  Where you just outside?  Did
you see what the cop did to that lady?"  It grabs their attention.  No
excuse me's, no compliments ... just straight out ENGAGING CHAT.  BAM.  3
second rule!

My Comment:  After the "excuse me" part, I typically offer a compliment or
other direct indication of interest on a personal level, which I find evens
the playing field pretty much immediately as she realizes she's dealing with
a man who is confronting her head on with his honesty about this being a
male/female approach.  For me, I find that the indirect method never works
and unless I lay some cards on the table, it doesn't go anywhere.  I have
seen the indirect method work for others many times, but when I do it it
seems like I inevitably crash and burn.  And bringing up the "PRESENT situ
of MEETING", or pacing the ongoing reality, usually works exceptionally well
right after that.  It offers an easy opportunity to make her laugh ("it's
funny, you could just be walking down the street, thinking about what you
will do at home, when all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there appears this
attractive man who just looks you in the eye, smiles and starts talking to
you.  Imagine that?") and this just has consistently gotten a good
conversation off to a running start for me.
>Thinking about this from a guy's perspective, what's the best way of
>responding to the question of what's the most outrageous thing you've ever
>done?

Mystery: I punched a nun ... but she had it coming!
>My feeling is you don't want to tell her what you honestly think is
>the most outrageous thing you've ever done, because that's deeply personal
>and doing so erases any mystery you might have built up.

Mystery: No - she is asking because she is wanting you to see her as
outrageous.  She is imposing her mentality onto you.  If someone asks this
they want REALLY
outrageous.  Make something up ... but make it fun and tongue in cheek.
> So I guess the
>best response would be one that does three things: a) makes it clear you
>won't tell her the most outrageous thing you've ever done; b) but still
>suggests you are a little wild and unrestrained; and c) makes her laugh.
>Any ideas?

Mystery:  No - cause this is not being OUTRAGEOUS and you lose her test.
>Second, I wonder about the issue of a chick flashing you.  Granted, this
>kind of girl is going to be rare, but still, that kind is out there.  I'd
>like to hear from others on this, but my feeling is that a chick who
>flashes
>you on a date (or does anything similarly suggestive) is doing one of two
>things: a) telling you she'd like to sleep with you very soon; or b)
>telling
>you that she'd NEVER sleep with you.

Mystery:  It tells you she WOULD sleep with you that NIGHT if you could push
the right buttons.  Acting as if the flashing bothered you would land you at
home with
a hairy palm.  She is wanting ATTENTION!  This is your MOTIVATOR.  Give her
a little bit of attention and then do massive takeaways.  This is the type
of girl I can get I think.  Either YOU get more attention than her or you
deprive her systematically.  Don't punish her for wanting it ... just ration
the attention.  Only give positive attention for GOOD behavior.
>I might be wrong about this, but it
>seems that there isn't a middle ground here because of the incredibly bold
>nature of the move.  It's like she either wants you right then, or it's a
>power trip and in making you get all aroused she's satisfying herself by
>asserting
>her femininity and seeing its immediate effects on you.

Mystery: You are in the HORNY frame.  She isn't flashing snatch because she
is HORNY.   She does it to arouse ATTENTION.  She wants a reaction ... what
would you do if you had lots of friends like her?  You would be used to this
type of
behavior and handle it well ... it would just roll off your back.  So
remarks like *shrug* "well, you can dress them up but you can't take 'em
anywhere" is funny shit.  THAT is how you give her the attention she wants
WITHOUT making her feel bad for doing it this way.  She sounds FUN and VERY
OUTGOING.  (Remember the camera is on them and they KNOW it = state change).
>I'll bet someone here has had a date with this kind of girl, and I wonder
>how you dealt with it.  My feeling is that a guy has to immediately call a
>girl on such behavior by making a move immediately and either forcing the
>girl to admit she wants sex, or forcing her to admit she was just playing
>with you.

Mystery: Again it NOT a sex signal.  It's an ATTENTION signal.  Reward her
for the behavior of spontaneity (after all, you want to spontaneously fuck
her in a
little bit).  ANY attention is good for her even if you act OFFENDED.  But
the dif is while SHE is happy getting the attention she wanted, you didn't
reward this crazy behavior and will have a tough time getting a fuck close
that night.
>hairbrush technique didn't work, "The hairbrush thing didn't work.  She
>didn't want me to do it -- I waited until late in the date while we were
>having a nice time talking over a glass of wine and started staring at her
>hair and then asked her if she minded if I brushed her hair.  She reacted
>with a puzzled look and basically said "that's all right" and I gave her
>the
>line about my mom, etc.  I think I did it correctly, but she said "maybe
>next time" as about as positive a response as I got.  I told her I might
>not
>think of it next time, but that didn't make any difference either."):

Mystery: Ouch man ... that seems to be a very AFC supplicative move.  She
has great hair?  Don't tell her (she knows!) ... instead ... "mmmm, you
smell sooo
good."  then rub her neck with your hand.  "shhhhh"  Don't ask for a message
or to give her one, that's AFC.  Just SLOWLY motion to what you want to do
and
glaze your eyes and ENJOY her skin and hair.
>The way I normally frame it is to compliment them that they have beautiful
>hair and then ask them when was the last time that someone brushed it.
>Then
>drop it.

Mystery:  See now THAT is pretty cool.  It's a neg in a way (could be) and
leading too for the gambit.
> A little take away sort off.  Then they will think about it for a
>while and remember how good it felt and then ask you why.  You have to get
>them to ask you out of  curiosity.  First a compliment  (your hair is
>really
>beautiful and looks very sensual, blah blah blah ) then ask a question to
>establish difference and build curiosity then let her mind go for it.  If
>she likes it she will think about it a lot and then ask you  why you asked
>and if she does not like it you don't have to seem like a dickhead asking
>her to do something for you rather than doing something for her.

Mystery:  She says, "Why do you ask?" and you reply ... "Get your brush."
"Why?"  "Just get your brush.  Come here sit down in front of me."  "Why?"
"Just sit down ... I want to brush your hair."  If she says no then you have
the eject
neg of  "No, seriously.  You need it.  You should take care of your hair
more."  Be sincere about this though.  This is a testing gambit.  If she
sits she has potential interest.  If not, she needs an immediate neg as
punishment for poor behavior and then you can build her up again with the
next routine.
>With respect, Mys, I am NOT talking about that. I'm talking about asking
>questions that engage and activate the non-critical and suggestible parts
of
>her mind. SHE HAS TO GO THERE TO ANSWER and so you begin the >process of
>being able to get her to respond from there.  NOT the same as eliciting
>values...but this is a rather new thing I've just started teaching.

Mystery:  Ok ... you have my ear.  Could you explain this further?  Very
interested in your viewpoint.  What SORT of questions?  Is this like getting
her values and you reiterate them back to her for clarity?  She answers your
questions thereby investing her stories in you?  What psychological
mechanism are you
suggesting?  Go WHERE exactly?  Ask questions like "Do you remember the
first time you kissed a boy you really really liked?  What was that like?"
and then in that state we anchor it to us?
>WHY TRAIN FOR BATTLE? ROSS, YOU ALREADY HAVE THE SKILLS.
>Masters ALWAYS train to keep the basics wired in and make the advanced
>stuff better!

Mystery:  Very true.  In fact, I think I am failing to do something I used
to do in my PU.  I don't know what it is but my results have lowered over
the past 3 weeks.  Could be just a slump or maybe I'm too ... needy looking
or something.  Truth
is, the places we go are new all the time so we waste so much time LOOKING
and then there are few HB's; only B's and I go in with no motivation to get
her
- I donno.  I need a serious change of pace.  This is my call to help.
Someone get me a life!
>Mys...look me up next time you are in LA.....no clubbing, but I'll
>show you coffee house, bookstore and street Sargin'........

Mystery:  Sounds good.  Will do.  I've always thought of those scenes as
mere bonus rounds ... the ops are few and far between (ok, not so much in LA
I know but still compared to a club - club may include restaurant/bar though
... I prefer upscale.) Of course, please don't get me wrong ... it's LA!
I'm sure I could clean house in those situs (my last 3 girls in LA were
restaurants/cafes).
>If all girls are essentially the same, how come you didn't pull any of
>these
>women.  Are you saying you weren't trying, that you blew it up every time
>or that it was impossible?  I'm being serious.

Mystery: Yeah.  I hear ya.  I donno it's like I just feel dulled lately.  We
go out and I haven't seen girls here like I did in LA.  Just frumpy girls
EVERYWHERE here.  There are SOME HB's but like raver chicks young and shit.
Not classy tall models and actress types.  Just ... girls.  So my motivation
to get them is lowered.  Sure I approach and engage and get to enjoy their
company and make them laugh and stuff but then I just do this for the
practice.  I'd fuck the girls I guess but wouldn't exactly LTR them, ya
know?!!  You know the girls that you see and you get butterflies?  Where the
hell are they?  I ENJOY those challenges.  I mean what I've done lately
(more than once) is get a two set to LOVE me and then fuck up by going kino
on both in turn (after pinging for bi-femdom and getting a negative).  I
wouldn't do that if I really wanted the girl is my point.  I am
experimenting more I guess.  Getting cocky.  OR ... I have gotten the #s of
girls with BFs.  I have even gotten the #s with the BF THERE.  I approached
with the BF there.  I befriended HIM.  Only the relationships were STRONG.
Remember I LOVE challenge and go for the tough situs.  I then actually get
in but ... like yesterday I called a girl I met in a club (blond 19  5'
11.5" model - rated 9 by no-9 and 8.5 by me) 2 weeks ago and had gotten
together once for light kino (ear and shoulder nibbles and neck rubbing and
hair) and the BF answered.  He handed it to her and she and I talked for a
bit.  I said,
"come over" she said, "I can't we're about to eat ... my BF just bought me
KFC."  Fuck.  I lose any INTEREST in pursuing this situ you know?  I need a
fucking change of pace. *shrug*
>Do you think every other guy
>who tried to pick up these women would have failed.

Mystery:  Most of my errors come from ... her liking me but her having a
LIVE IN BF, her liking me but thinking I must get a lot of girls (fucking up
in choosing her or her friend) ... mostly ENDGAME issues.  Or maybe it's
that I get to know the girls and I then go into experiment mode cause they
simply fail to meet my quality standard ... shit when you've had a penthouse
pet in your arms ... the rest taste bland.  Boring dental hygienists,
lawyer's assistants to be, so called model who lives with mom and BF, girl
with 4 month old child ... get the picture?
> Having not seen you
>work, but read your reports, It seems likely that there are a type of
woman
>that you are attracted to that you have honed your game to.

Mystery: Yes.  10's.  They must be gotten in a different manner than the
regular girls.  I CANT FUCKING FIND THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Your skill set
>is broad enough and these women are prevalent enough that you can
typically
>find them at the locations you hunt.  However, I haven't heard you claim
>you
>can pick up any woman (or even 1 out of every 2 women) any where anytime
>(provided she is single and hetero).  What are you batting... 200, 350,
>400,
>500, 1000?

Mystery: Over the last few weeks we would consistently get out late and go
to new places and only stay in one place the whole evening.  I would
approach only 4 to 5 a night (time constraints, lack of fish) and only get 1
# on average every two days.  So I'm doing SOMETHING wrong lately.  It is
like I've lost my edge a bit because I've lost ENERGY.  I don't know.  If
there was a WORTHY WOMAN I bet I would get excited and use my skills but
NOBODY I have met in the last 3 weeks equaled nor surpassed the quality of
my most recent LTGF.  I want at LEAST EQUAL!
>I think there are nearly universal generalizations about women, there are
>high likely generalizations, somewhat likely generalizations and random
>generalizations about women.  Not to get to NLP here, but we're all using
>models (maps) for PU and if we can consistently pull HB's then we are
>generally comfortable with the model.  However if you were perceptive
>enough
>and flexible enough, you should be able pick up anyone, anywhere anytime.

Mystery: Oh ... I think I can.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a cocky PUA.  I'll
playfully
challenge anyone on this.  I'm out again tonight.  Wish me luck. *shrug*
Name the place - I think I'm the most open guy around willing to meet anyone
who I can conveniently meet.  I met a newbie PUA off the net only 2 days
ago - young kid learning.  I can PU in the TOUGHEST of situs.  I do
groupsets.  I approach COLD CALL.  I approach TABLES in RESTAURANTS.  With
parents there!  AND BF!  AND get her #.  I have pix to PROVE my claims.  AND
wings in two cities that got my back.  It's just that I'm getting a little
numb.  It's not a PUA thing: it's a life thing.  I donno.  I need something
new to get my juices flowing again but if you read my history of posts you
know I get this way from time to time.
>Until you can be that perceptive with limited feedback, it's hard for me
to
>discount eliciting values in certain circumstances.

Mystery:  I suppose the way I do it in my mental map is this:  instead of
categorizing a girl into a TYPE, I discover what mental constructs she has
(Memes).  If she believes $$$ is the route of all evil I can construct a
profile of her and deduce what other memes exist in her head (like she
likely goes to thrift shops).  If she has the Christian meme I know the
issues I must work with - she must hide her sexuality from mom and dad and
the BF blasting must come into play more.  If she is Wiccan I can work it -
they have great credulity and are more emotionally lead.  If she believes in
ESP I can work it - I can make her feel a great connection.  If she is a
skeptic, I can work it - I reveal my brilliance.  In all cases, I mirror the
beliefs but in such a way as to emotionally evoke them.  I always feel one
step ahead of them now like playing checkers with a little kid.  They just
don't see as many moves ahead.  Comes from experience and practice.  That's
all.  An 8.5 aged 19 only talked with MAYBE a hundred people.  22 yrs old
maybe a few hundred.  I have THOUSANDS of interactions.  I need to meet a
girl who knows the score so I can win a champion.  OR ... I'll die
friendless in a boarding house ... smoking pot with my legs crossed ... in a
tattered blue house coat ... playing gin rummy with a war vet.

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Klorm:
In response to the chick question "What is the most outrageous thing you've
ever done?"  Well, I would basically pace the ongoing situation and lead
into the fantasy of what I'm going to do with her. Example (Out on blind
date with woman in restaurant):  "Well...one time I was out on this blind
date...this woman was sitting across from me...and she just started to focus
in on the warmth of my voice...and blah blah blah....[PATTERN A LOT
MORE]...and by this time we got home...and it was like you could feel the
excitement...feel the anticipation...of what is going to happen next...and
[GET HER HOT AND BOTHERED WITH MORE PATTERNING TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CLOSE
THE DEAL]..."
Just a thought.

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Horn Dog:
[[Reddog writes: "I don't know anything about Eckankar, but I'd be careful.
Cults will often plant attractive members at outreach meetings. They'll
approach marks and show an interest in them. The mark then gets involved in
the cult in hopes of getting involved with the girl. This isn't NECESSARILY
the case here. But, it could
be. Watch your heart and wallet."]]

"Flirty Fishing" was first used by "The Family" and "The Church of God
Worldwide,"  now many other groups are starting to use it.  A little
research will show you that Eckankar ranks right up there with the Moonies,
Hare Krishna's, and
Scientology.  Go to  http://www.rickross.com (ha ha, no relation!)  Rick is
a consultant on cults. Use the search feature at his site and you'll find
lots of material on Eck.

[[D.S.writes: "I wonder what everybody's favorite opening lines are.
Obviously canned pick-up lines are a little unfashionable these days, but
still a guy has to say something when he approaches a girl."]]

So many people look down on pickup lines, but think about it...just what is
a pick up line? It's a prehistoric troglodyte AFC effort at what we
illuminated beings now do with patterns.  They served then as sort of "mini
patterns" if you will.  And if you apply SS, NLP, and Ericksonian hypnosis
techniques to the general ideas behind
the pickup lines there is quite a lot you can do, if you let your creative
juices flow.

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Philip:
>Second, I wonder about the issue of a chick flashing you.  Granted, this
>kind of girl is going to be rare, but still, that kind is out there.  I'd
>like to hear from others on this, but my feeling is that a chick who
flashes
>you on a date (or does anything similarly suggestive) is doing one of two
>things: a) telling you she'd like to sleep with you very soon; or b)
telling
>you that she'd NEVER sleep with you.  I might be wrong about this, but it
>seems that there isn't a middle ground here because of the incredibly bold
>nature of the move.  It's like she either wants you right then, or it's a
>power trip and in making you get all aroused she's satisfying herself by
>asserting
>her femininity and seeing its immediate effects on you.

About a year ago I was out with a girl who pulled down her top to show me
her newly-pierced nipple (and whole breast) while we were sitting on bar
stools early in the night at a techno dance bar (the barman saw as well!).
Briefly, the history was we'd been out drinking a couple of times before but
no sexual advances by either party, despite a certain chemistry there (which
I had not intended to pursue for various reasons). On this occasion it was
just the two of us, but it wasn't a "date" context, just two people who knew
each other sharing a drink. I believe she considered me a "nice guy" type
guy at this time, and her actions were a test to see what I'd do.
Once she flashed me, I flirt-talked for about a minute more (she also had
her tongue and belly button pieced so I used this as a topic) then I said
"I'm going to the bathroom...." then as I got up I leaned in close to her
ear and said "Come with me, Pamela...." in a totally confident voice and
walked off. Sure enough, she followed! When we got to the door of the
"Gents" I took her hand, we went into a cubical, I shut the door fast,
pushed her up against the wall and kissed her hard - she loved it! Soon I
was sucking her ringed nipple and soon after she giving me a blowjob, but
honestly, the smell in there was so bad we had to stop! We went up to the
dancefloor, danced for 10 minutes touching and kissing, then got a cab back
to my place to continue our fun. I believe it was my actions after her
flashing me that got these results.
In summary, unless she has really firmly made up her mind one way (she's a
cock-tease) or the other ("I'm desperate and this is the last thing I can
try to get you hot for me") before she flashes, I believe it is done as a
test and a challenge. You have only a short while (seconds, a minute or two
at most) after the flash to capitalize on it. What worked for me was an
attitude of total confidence (to match the state she is almost certainly
in), a playfulness, and taking strong leading action - something which
implies "Come with me right now, I'm going to fuck your brains out."

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NightLight9:>[snip]
>D.S.: It's funny, your line is similar to one I've just thought of to use
>on the type of woman that is used to frequent compliments on her beauty.
"Excuse
>me," you say, "I don't usually stop random strangers on the street, but I
>saw you from over there and you're absolutely radiating success and
>accomplishment.  Have you like recently got a huge promotion or like a big
>break in your career, or do you just know some trick I don't?"
>I think this one's gonna bring in the home telephone numbers.  I wonder
>what you think.

Do you really spit out lines that long?  It seems like a mouthful.  Maybe I
should start trying stuff this long (as I squint to try and make out my self
limiting beliefs from reality).

[snip]
>Thinking about this from a guy's perspective, what's the best way of
>responding to the question of what's the most outrageous thing you've ever
>done?  My feeling is you don't want to tell her what you honestly think is
>the most outrageous thing you've ever done, because that's deeply personal
>and doing so erases any mystery you might have built up.  So I guess the
>best response would be one that does three things: a) makes it clear you
>won't tell her the most outrageous thing you've ever done; b) but still
>suggests you are a little wild and unrestrained; and c) makes her laugh.

The obvious and tired ones: "I could tell you but I'd have to kill you."
"One time... when I was in band camp..."
But I would tend to go with something a little more mischievous: "The most
outrageous thing...  Hmmm.
more a few times>  I'd say it was walking right up to you and getting your
phone number."  She'll know it's bullshit but it will still make her feel
special without giving too much away and that's the beauty of it.
>Second, I wonder about the issue of a chick flashing you.  Granted, this
>kind of girl is going to be rare, but still, that kind is out there.  I'd
>like to hear from others on this, but my feeling is that a chick who
>flashes
>you on a date (or does anything similarly suggestive) is doing one of two
>things: a) telling you she'd like to sleep with you very soon; or b)
>telling
>you that she'd NEVER sleep with you.  I might be wrong about this, but it
>seems that there isn't a middle ground here because of the incredibly bold
>nature of the move.  It's like she either wants you right then, or it's a
>power trip and in making you get all aroused she's satisfying herself by
>asserting
>her femininity and seeing its immediate effects on you.
>I'll bet someone here has had a date with this kind of girl, and I wonder
>how you dealt with it.  My feeling is that a guy has to immediately call a
>girl on such behavior by making a move immediately and either forcing the
>girl to admit she wants sex, or forcing her to admit she was just playing
>with you.  And if she was just playing with you, my guess is that now
>she'll
>stop.  Any thoughts?

I agree, this is way over the top of friendly flirting.  This is a total
control/power play.  My belief is that women (people in general) have a few
different personality types that determine how you need to react to them.
This type has a power thing, and needs to be dominated.  At this point to my
way of thinking there are two ways you can go with this and they are polar
opposites.  1)  You can walk right over to her, looking her in the eye as
you do it, put your hand on her inner thigh, pause while looking her in the
eye and then say, "I'm going to go get " squeeze her leg lightly
and walk away.  That is a very strong and dominating move that shows you
aren't backing down from her challenge nor are you frozen or confused by it.
2)  Completely ignore her move and act bored with her.  That shows she can't
control you and you don't play those kind of games.

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Chris:
>D.S.: It's funny, your line is similar to one I've just thought of to use
>on the type of woman that is used to frequent compliments on her beauty.
"Excuse
>me," you say, "I don't usually stop random strangers on the street, but I
>saw you from over there and you're absolutely radiating success and
>accomplishment.  Have you like recently got a huge promotion or like a big
>break in your career, or do you just know some trick I don't?"
>I think this one's gonna bring in the home telephone numbers.  I wonder
>what you think.
>
>My Comment: I think anything that is down to earth and which stays away
>from
>commenting on a woman's looks is a good thing.  Ross compliments energy,
>movement and how they carry themselves and I think that's great stuff

Here is something from a persuasion book I am currently reading:
"But herein lies the crucial difference between being attentive and kind
versus telling her that she is your entire world and the only person for
you. (Because, as we talked about, this removes doubt and begins to erode
the passion).  The former is more objective and has to do primarily with
her.  The latter involves your relationship and invokes the rule of
scarcity.  Notice the crucial difference between saying how much you like
this person - which makes you lose leverage - and telling her that she is a
LIKABLE person."
When I thought about it, most of my best-received compliments were along
these
lines, like "You seem to be the leader of your friends.  Why is that?"  and
"Some people can be closed-minded; you seem really open and fun."  It seems
to be an important distinction.
BTW, the book I'm reading is "Get Anyone to Do Anything," by David J.
Lieberman, and I would highly recommend it.  It states the theories very
briefly then goes into long explanations on how to use them to your
advantage in the real world.  In other words, short on theorizing and high
on strategy.  The book jacket claims that the author has developed a
"revolutionary short-term therapy" called Neural-Dynamic Analysis.  Has
anyone looked at this therapy in relation to seduction?

Linda:
DS: I wonder about the issue of a chick flashing you. Granted, this
kind of girl is going to be rare, but still, that kind is out there. I'd
like to hear from others on this, but my feeling is that a chick who flashes
you on a date (or does anything similarly suggestive) is doing one of two
things: a) telling you she'd like to sleep with you very soon; or b) telling
you that she'd NEVER sleep with you. I might be wrong about this, but it
seems that there isn't a middle ground here because of the incredibly bold
nature of the move. It's like she either wants you right then, or it's a
power trip and in making you get all aroused she's satisfying herself by
asserting her femininity and seeing its immediate effects on you.
I'll bet someone here has had a date with this kind of girl, and I wonder
how you dealt with it. My feeling is that a guy has to immediately call a
girl on such behavior by making a move immediately and either forcing the
girl to admit she wants sex, or forcing her to admit she was just playing
with you. And if she was just playing with you, my guess is that now she'll
stop. Any thoughts?

I was a party once and this co-worker of mine, this guy, got flashed. This
guy had fucked a lot of women who worked in our building (no, I did not fuck
him) and so he had this reputation. At this party, there was this one woman
from work who had not yet fucked him but had heard about his escapades. She
was with some slutty friends (non-coworkers of ours), and one of these
friends lifted up her skirt and snatch flashed him. These women wanted him
to go outside with them to their car, but he decided not to. He *seemed*
repulsed and not really turned on by this woman's boldness. But that's my
interpretation. He was actually after another woman (who didn't want him)
who was also at the party, so I guess he didn't want to mess things up with
her. I suppose it was just too easy for this guy to go with the
snatchflashers. Not much of a challenge.
I would agree with DS that when women do such things, there is no in
between. Either they are ready to pounce on you or they are just showing you
what you can't have.
My question to Ross is: At what point can you tell if the woman is good to
go or if she is "asserting her feminine power"? It was obvious with the
women at the party I went to. And from your description of "Blind Date," it
seems that the guy never was going to get any from the start.
Also: If faced with such a person, should you call her on this behavior? Or
will doing something else, may be nonverbal, send a more powerful message to
this type of woman?

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cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.

NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:

RECOMMENDED:

One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.

NOT REVIEWED YET:

Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):

 

[all words] [any words]

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