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"Are you looking at my butt?"

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Are you looking at my butt?
Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:58:26 -0400

Lots of interesting things to read and try out.


Challenge: How can we be a challenge and still be aggressive? It seems like
a paradox, how to be chased, and chase.

Overall, I like to use the metaphor of the executive recruiter: When I do
that, I can look at this whole game as an interviewing process, where I am
going around talking to potential employees (lovers), and getting
information about them. If they reject me right off (yeah, it has happened),
I can look at them as rude, judgmental, and unfun, therefore they are bad
candidates and I cross them off of the list. In addition, if I find out
something bad about them, I can cross them off the list. If done properly,
this has to give the women the impression that they are going to have to
work, to have me. The important part of this is that recruiters talk to
people all the time, they advertise, and go to great lengths to find good
potential employees; however, they are the one with the goody (job) to

(For those who haven't read my old posts, I like to use a form of "Eyeball
Communication" where I look the woman in the eyes, and talk to her inside my
head.)  One thing I have learned from women, is how to extend my judgement
period. There was a time when I would see a hottie and immediately decide
that I had to have her. Extending my judgement period means that when I see
a hottie now, I just say something inside my head like, "You are cute, but I
wonder what possible good you could be for me. Come on let me know how you
could improve my life. Heck! I can't really tell from over here, I think
that I will just go over and find out if you have got something going that
will be good for me." Now that I experiment with this "open judgement
period" (OJP) I haven't found a good time to close it. It may be that it is
better to keep at least some level of open judgement forever in a

My normal attitude has changed from, "I worship you o' goddess of my heart,
please grant me your favor," to "Get off of it woman, and start doing what
it takes to get the loving you need, NOW!"

Someone asked how to ask a woman up to their apartment. I like the use of
the word "can." As in, "You can come up to my apartment for a drink." The
word "can," presupposes that you are granting them permission to come up to
your apartment. GRANTING PERMISSION is one of my favorite ways of creating
challenge, it presupposes that they had to EARN IT (this of course I have
learned from women).

Yet another thing I have learned from women, the art of complaining. Heck,
sometimes I copy their lines almost exactly, For example: "The lovers that I
have had recently have really been jerks , you know they FILL IN THE BLANKS,
I just wish I could meet a nice girl. One who, FILL IN THE BLANKS. This
gives them a standard to live up to, and lets them know that you don't just
fall for any woman, she has to be special. I have used a long complicated
version of this to get women to seduce me, a very short version goes
something like, "Some women just lie and lie about what they want, when they
want some loving, they just wait and don't do anything, they just FILL IN
THE BLANKS. . . Are there any women who have the courage and honesty to do
what it takes to get/seduce a man when they really. . want to have a man?
Don't they know how easy and fun it is to just FILL IN THE BLANKS."  I sound
like a real bitch sometimes, but it is great when she reaches over and gives
me her version of what it takes to turn me on.

The next thing I have learned from women is the "Lets show them what you
got, Boys!" Depending on the situation, I do stuff to varying intensities
like, showing her my butt, and saying something inside my head like, "Ooooo,
isn't this great, wouldn't you just like to grab this and squeeeze it? Oh,
yes, I know that you would. And, if you play your cards right, I just might

let you." Ok, I admit that I felt like a total fool the first time I did it
(I was walking up some stairs and she was behind me), but it worked. Oh, I
left out the very best part, I spun around real fast and said, "Are you
looking at my butt?" (in an accusatory tone). She actually said, "Oh, um,
you caught me."  I was so surprised that I was struck dumb for several
seconds. In sum, I show them my stuff, and then act totally surprised when
they respond. An attitude like "Like hey, I'm just sitting here on the couch
in a natural position, if you are looking at the bulge in my pants and
getting really hot, that's like totally your choice. You are crazy if you
think that it is more than an accident that I am pointing to my crouch and
sticking it up in the air like a flagpole. You pervert!"  My Brothers, when
read this it sounds totally crazy, but it works! And, as the Brothers who
have met me can attest, I ain't got that much stuff worth strutting. Just
show em what you got Boys!

Which takes me to the last part of this post (but not the last part of my
version of "the art of the challenge" by a long shot and once again, learned
from women). This is called "being receptive." That is, women will chase you
sometimes "because she wants to" and not because you have talked her into
it, or she owes you, or anything that she "feels" you have done, and
therefore she will need the "room" to do you the way she wants to do you.
One of my friends said that this list is for love-shy control freaks, and
maybe she is right, but I think that what we tend to want to do is play the
part of the MIGHTY HUNTER who goes out into the jungle, bags a tigress, and
returns home triumphant. I know I like that, and always will, and I am not
putting it down or going to stop doing it myself, but the main challenge
this leaves a women is how much resistance she can put up before she is
swept off of her feet. The opposite of such an impressive action is
receptivity. OK, I'm not exactly sure how to say this, but here goes. Let go
of your attachment to the outcome. Do what you want to do (yes, I still use
all of the Sargy techniques), and then relax, enjoy anything that comes up,
who knows, it might just be better than anything you could have engineered
by yourself.

So, somebody might ask me, "What is your average with this technique?"  I
don't know, because I filter out so many rude, unacceptable and uninterested
women you could say that it is either very high, or very low depending on
what place we start the "game."  I would tend to say that my average is very
high because if they don't rise to the challenge and do what it takes to get
me, I'm just not interested in them.  One of the great things about being a
man, is that we are expected to approach women, so we can interview as many
women as we want.  If we interview 20 women in one night and they are all
unacceptable, then so be it.

Most of the stuff above was taught to me by an ex-gigolo friend, and by
women.  I could have made a book out of all of the other stuff, but I know
that this post was too long already.  So, want to thank all of you who read
the whole thing for sticking it out.

My Comment:  Please write up the other stuff.  You certainly have my


>My question to Ross is: At what point can you tell if the woman is good to
>go or if she is "asserting her feminine power"?

Being good to go IS the ultimate in "asserting her feminine power".
Everything else is an ACTUAL denial of that power while ATTEMPTING to
obtain an imitation of it!

"Yes, boys and girls, I'd say the 21st century is a right bad time to
be a bastard"....The Midnighter, "The Authority".....Warren Ellis &
Bryan Hitch


Dan: I was talking to two girls today in the dining hall (I just walked up,
sat down and said "How's it going?" etc.) and I was doing reasonably well,
enthusiasm and getting them to laugh a little (not nearly enough) but this
jock walked in and one of them started checking him out and talking about
him a little bit.  I got their interest again and ejected a little later (I
didn't feel comfortable enough to close).  What should I do about things
like this in the future?

My Comment:  You need to learn about "smurfing".  You should be able to find
something out about this on the Essential-skills website


>[Snip of Mystery's HB's being in groupsets comments]
>[snip of debate over excuse me]
The two different approaches you are advocating correlate directly to my
theory on Bar vs. Coffee shop pickup.  What works in one, must be adapted
tuned for the other, in some cases substantially.  Even different bars
require different techniques.  A dance club is not like a watering hole is
not like a Martini bar (of course they are more similar than to a gay
pride parade, but you know what I mean).

[Mystery]>Wait for HER to do the name

I agree with this one hundred percent, unless there is a man in the
groupset.  Then I like to introduce myself to him first (I make it seem like
he is the natural person by physical location, not by deference) and then
the women.  This is a good idea after a few intro exchanges.
>thing.  The no name exchange thing also works in your favour because 1) it
>adds mystery, 2) is a test to see her interest, 3) keeps you from the
>embarrassing "what was your name again" or her negging you with "I'm sorry
>I forgot your name."  Leave it for the end ... after all, I'm a stud.  I
>lots of people.  I certainly don't need to know a girl's name unless I
>on knowing her longer than this time.  Be a challenge to her.

Yup, It is also a good test of your efficiency, early in a conversation,
exchange is pure filler.  If you find yourself having to intro yourself,
that means you didn't have anything better to talk about (that's not a good
> >Thinking about this from a guy's perspective, what's the best way of
> >responding to the question of what's the most outrageous thing you've
>>ever done?
>Mystery: I punched a nun ... but she had it coming!
>Mystery: No - she is asking because she is wanting you to see her as
>outrageous.  She is imposing her mentality onto you.  [snip]

Good advice.  Some thoughts from the gallery:
Stuck my head in a lion mouth.
Gone swimming naked with dolphins (this one could be the truth).
Joined the circus.  Variant: got thrown out of the circus for being to tall
to fit in the midget car.
Wrestled an alligator "by accident"
Went through a week of CIA basic training because of a case of mistaken
Stopped a bank robbery by crashing your car into the get away vehicle (My
insurance even went up!!!)
>Mystery: Yes.  10's.  They must be gotten in a different manner than the
>regular girls.  I CANT FUCKING FIND THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to my hell...  I saw one the other day for the first time I've been
in Seattle.  She looked just like Cameron Diaz with a better face.  We made
Eye contact and she smiled, but due to other circumstances, I couldn't
:-(  She watched me walk away.
>Mystery:  I suppose the way I do it in my mental map is this:  instead of
>categorizing a girl into a TYPE, I discover what mental constructs she has
>(Memes).  If she believes $$$ is the route of all evil I can construct a
>profile of her and deduce what other memes exist in her head (like she
>likely goes to thrift shops).  If she has the Christian meme I know the
>issues I must work with - she must hide her sexuality from mom and dad and
>the BF blasting must come into play more.  If she is Wiccan I can work it
>they have great credulity and are more emotionally lead.  If she believes
>in ESP I can work it - I can make her feel a great connection.  If she is
>skeptic, I can work it - I reveal my brilliance.  In all cases, I mirror
>the beliefs but in such a way as to emotionally evoke them.  I always feel
>step ahead of them now like playing checkers with a little kid.

I would argue that we are in a discussion of semantics at this point.  Your
meme discovery is what I call eliciting values.  I may be using the term
incorrectly, although the memes or meme-sets you mention I would define as
values (or sets of values), and obviously many/most memes are not values.
>They just
>don't see as many moves ahead.  Comes from experience and practice.
>all.  An 8.5 aged 19 only talked with MAYBE a hundred people.

Maybe 25-50 worth remembering.
>22 yrs old
>maybe a few hundred.  I have THOUSANDS of interactions.  I need to meet a
>girl who knows the score so I can win a champion.  OR ... I'll die
>friendless in a boarding house ... smoking pot with my legs crossed ... in
>a tattered blue house coat ... playing gin rummy with a war vet.

Ahhh fulfillment...  Good luck.  I'd like to grow old teaching my son(s) to
be better at PU and life than I am.  To pass on my Memes.  First I need some


Eric H.:
> Mystery: It IS, however, supplicative.  You only need to say SOMETHING to
> get the attention.  "HI" does it.  It's a subtle thing but EXCUSE ME is
> asking for her
> to EXCUSE you, and FORGIVE THE INTERRUPTION is asking for forgiveness.

I have to make a comment that may or may not play a role in how you think
about some of this. Do you ever make mistakes and then when you apologize
you say "I'm sorry"? First thought in my head is "yes, you are." However, I
do have a solution for it and it makes the listener take an active role in
the issue; it's simply saying "Forgive me" instead. Seems to turn the
situation from an adjective into a verb and may apply here. IF I use
"forgive me" in introductions, it never seems to make any difference but my
attitude could have something to do with that. Anyway, just a
thought...apply it as you will.


> Q: Do you find, staying sober in clubs is the best way to insure PUA
> A: Real pick up artists don't drink.  Clear and simple.  They may choose
> ACT drunk at times, but that's it.

Well, if someone can't be social and confident enough being sober he can use
alternative methods. This way you don't have to drink and still behave
normally to everyone. Drinking actually is one of the worst methods

It's perfectly normal not to be social naturally. It's all brain chemistry.
Some people (like Mystery) are just lucky enough to have right
neurotransmitters flowing in right direction.


Thomas: A long while ago, something happened to me. I remember discussing it
in ASF briefly. I won't get in the details, unless there is some interest,
but here's what happened:  I was studying NLP from books but my it sparked
my interest in body language» and hypnosis. I did tons of tests with friends.
And after some work, I managed to put myself in a such state that I was a
people magnet. Somehow people picked me as being someone they wanted to talk
with: clerks, co-workers, guys and girls, etc. I had that state for a week,
it was awesome, then I didn't manage to get it back. The peak of this was
one night, at a bar, I and a PU friend had a really bad night because we
couldn't find anybody we were interested in, and we were just chatting
together. Comes in a group of people, like 10 guys and 2 girls. The two
girls were the best looking I've seen in the past year. My buddy and I were
like 'with these 10 guys, that's not for us'. I swear I wasn't asking for
anything, I just looked at one of them for a few seconds. She saw me, she
walked through the place and I was like 'where is she going' and I got
really surprised as she came to sit next to me. Unfortunately it surprised
so much that I didn't even know what to say. 5 minutes after she brought
over the other girl that was... her sister! Turns out they were both a bit
drunk and because of the guys around we haven't been able to do anything
anyways (but when we were in front of the place, they flashed us!). Then
... I lost that state. I haven't been able to recreate it again. I thought
that night was a dream, it was so weird. So if you are in the right state,
you seem to radiate friendly waves, or something like that. Actually the
week after, something weird like that happened again as I was with another
PU friend trying to describe to him my state and trying to re-experience it
a bar). The singer of a lame amateur band talked a bit with us and each time
I was looking at her eyes, she would freeze, just looking, not saying
anything. My buddy would talk to her and she would stop talking in the
middle to stare at my eyes, to the point my friend seemed to think she was
fucked up or something. That was so weird. (I've a pic of her btw, but in my
other house, so I can dig it when I finish moving).  I live in San Francisco
now (this happened in Vancouver). I have enough practice in hypnosis to put
people in trance and put them in different states and I'd like to set a
practice group with a few people around here so that we set ourselves in
'the right state' and go out for PU. I recall the details of that state and
I would be able to put someone in it, but unfortunately I kinda suck at
self-hypnosis and I'm never able to work on myself. My goal is to write a
concrete document on that and do all that as an experiment (documenting
everything, etc). I'm actually trying to work on a book.
If anybody wants to discuss the above, contact me at: bla***t@ho***.com[ ? ] or icq
: 6469758
If the list is interested with all the details, let me know. That experiment
didn't last long, but it was amazing.

My Comment:  Again, my interest is piqued!  Let's have details, please.


no9: I'm in Toronto winging with Mystery.

Mystery's right when he says that he's missing a lot of details on his own
game :)  It must be pretty internalized in him.  I have spurious notes that
I've written on him - maybe I'll write it out coherently soon.

Here is my take:
Mystery's game has evolved from the clubbing scene and that's where he's
honed his skills.  Clubs attract glam, and he really goes for glam girls.
He is flamboyant and can really play it big - which is great for HB's who
used to a lot of attention, but I think he can be intimidating or
over-qualified for B-girls.  By intimidating, I do not mean menacing, but
when girls see him surrounded by HB's and he starts pulling out photos of
himself surrounded by HB's who are better looking than they are, they may
question their worthiness or they may be up to his challenge.

Preparation: Before we arrive at the club, we go through a routine where we
get talkative - talk about anything that's interesting - this gets your
energy up and your momentum rolling before you enter the club.  (Have you
ever entered a club, but hesitated to do the first few approaches, and then
ended up staling the whole evening?  Getting talkative stops that ...)  You
can even use this as an opener, "I was just having this spirited debate with
my friend, and we were talking about ... What is your opinion on XX ... "
Just make sure you're not talking about girls or seduction before entering a
club, or that's the last topic that'll be on your mind.

On Mindset :
We use two major reframes :
1. This is all a holodeck simulation.
2. We are not here to PU.  We are here to practice new material.
I think these are excellent reframes that have helped me.

So lately, Mystery has recited something like this as a mantra about 5 min.
before entering:  "None of *this* exists.  It's all a large holodeck.  The
girls do not exist.  We are not here to pickup girls.  We are here merely to
engage in conversation.  We are here only to practice material."  Now we use
this all the time ...

I'd get into Mystery's groupset, but I think that's nicely covered in his
book and I'm really tired now ...

My Comment:  Rest up and tell us more.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

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Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

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A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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