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"Just stands there speechless with his knees shaking"

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Just stands there speechless with his knees shaking
Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:48:39 -0400


Flyer (Commenting on Bjorn's comments: "I would like to comment on Horn
Dog's posting about HB's hanging with guy's who look like the missing link.
Based on my observations, I see this only very, very rarely. I live in
Kitchener, Ontario (near Toronto). Maybe the females out here watch too many
Gap commercials because 99.9% of the time when I see HB's (> 8/10 [ref.
Elizabeth Hurley as an 8.5/10])they are with guys who look like GQ models.
Also, it seems the younger the female, the more she is into getting good
looking guys (or "hotties" which is what they call them around here....).
Also, contrary to what Horn Dog says, my observations are that the HB's
"bitch shield" goes up when an unconfident, shy or ugly guy approaches. The
smooth-stud-PUA-player's have no problem. Isn't that our goal here in SS;
to become smooth-stud-PUA-player's???
I also would like to say I agree with Horn Dog's observation on married guys
having better luck attracting HB's. I think this is because married guys
are already validated as being desirable to a woman. Also, an HB can flirt
with a married guy where as a single guy might take flirting as an
invitation for something more and seem too eager."):

Flyer's Response:
I am curious because Kitchener sounds like its a suburb of Toronto. If that
is the case, then Bjorn and I are in the same situation, and yes I have seen
here in Fairfield County (a suburb of New York City) the things he has
observed too. The reason for my last posting is that certain areas are less
conducive for seduction when you are situated in an area where the only HB's
running around want men with money and lots of it. Assuming she is not
already married and spoken for.  Sargying in the suburbs is the WORST
possible place. The 'burbs' are sick. The whole GAP mentality, and the rest
of the shit culture associated with bedroom communities. Most of the HB's in
these areas values are fucked up. Not all, but most. In addition, there have
been a few authors on the dating subject whom have said the same thing. Yes,
one may find a sweet HB in the 'burbs', but the more populated cities would
be a better bet. I am simply talking better probabilities here. I stopped
sargying HB's in my area for that reason. When I recall the prettier girls I
have dated, it was girls I met in the city. I'd be interested in knowing
where Horn Dog observed the HB's with the non suave pua guys-- I am betting
it would be a metropolitan areas, not in the 'burbs.


I've got a response to Horn Dog's and others' arguments that extremely
desirable women, HBs more succinctly, will prefer to date average-looking
men. A priori I think that's just an illogical thought, and, further,
everything I've actually observed tells me it's illogical. Guys are
obviously very attracted to the beautiful physical female form, but women
are as well (if not as feverishly).  I think this further gets at a problem
that some people on this list may be plagued by: the notion that while guys
will always be attracted to the girl with the best face, biggest tits, and
best ass, women do not place any such importance on a guy's physical body.
The fact is, that while the physical body is not as important to women as it
is to guys, it still is pretty
fucking _important_, man.
Look: if you're not tall, quite good-looking, well-built, with a decent
sense of humor, _or_, if you're not rich as all hell or famous as all hell,
you're never never never gonna bang a girl like Laetitia Casta or Heidi
no matter how many sly, verbally deft 'patterns' you say to her.  In fact --
here's where I disagree with some people on this list -- I think these
pattern things are most likely just gonna creep a woman out, to be perfectly
So far I've liked the hell out of this list because people on it have talked
about practical, normal things that guys can do to better succeed with women
and people have not been talking about that 'pattern' stuff and the rest of
it.  I swear to you that guys who get a lot of ass don't use this pattern
Instead of spending time on memorizing that stuff, I think one would be
better off buying a membership to Gold's Gym and building a killer body and
then buying a nice wardrobe of clothes.
This advice here on this list about such techniques as giving a girl a
massage and brushing her hair and approaching a girl on a date have been
outstanding! Keep that stuff coming, whoever's sending it!
I've got a hint of my own, based upon my own recent experience. When a
woman asks you where you're from, give her only the basic US geographical
location. For instance, I'm from Minnesota, and when brawds asks me where
I'm from, I say the Midwest.  This drives them fucking nuts. They absolutely
have to know where, and will immediately ask me. But instead of letting them
ask me, immediately after I tell them I'm from the Midwest, I change the
subject, by saying, for instance, "Have you seen _Meet the Parents_?" And
now it's much harder for them to ask me to clarify where I'm from, because
that would be changing the subject back to me, which would reveal in them
interest in me. But they almost always do!  And when they don't, it will
stay with them. For instance: I was talking with a brawd on the phone about
a room she was trying to sublet and she asked me where I was from and I told
her the Midwest, then changed the subject.
Well the first thing she asked me when we met was, "Where in the Midwest are
you from?" So obviously she'd been thinking about that for some period of
time during the six hours between when we spoke on the phone and when I
showed up to see her place. And obviously if you can get a chick to be
thinking about you, even in such a minor way as where you're from, you're
that much closer to pulling off her panties, which in the end is what this
is all about.

My Comment:  While patterns alone won't do the job, I think if you had read
some of the posts on the SS list by such experienced bros like Bishop, you
would understand that it is not patterns that are important but making the
thought and speech patterns a part of you.  Most men haven't a clue about
how to talk romantically to a woman, yet this is what they are waiting for.
They want to hear that "sweet talk" as soon as it would be appropriate
between a man and a woman whereas I believe most men sort of wait around for
the woman to drop hints that she's interested.  Patterns, used intelligently
and when they form a natural part of your speech are very effective.  But I
don't like to post patterns here, because I think then I would be
duplicating what goes on on the SS list and that is not the point of these


Of course being in a state of "vacation" is good and healthy. My point
though is this.
As a human being, you experience MANY different states throughout the day.
Some of the emotions you feel are "positive" (i.e., you want them) and some
are "negative" (i.e., they don't feel good to you and you don't want them).
Typically there is some sort of chain reaction: you feel emotion X and that
triggers emotion Y which triggers emotion Z, and so on.
The question you need to ask yourself is which emotions do I want activated
throughout the day?
For example: let's say you feel Frustration at something minor at work. It
doesn't have to be any major frustration, it could be something like, "damn,
what the hell is taking the computer so long to download??" OK? So you
feel a momentary Frustration. In the past that Frustration might have
"activated" another feeling, let's say Anger ("arrrrr.... I'm going to KILL
Bill Gates!!"). And let's say that those two feelings caused a lot of
stress. You stored those feelings in your body, so to speak, and the more
they build the more stress you felt.
The structure so far is: Frustration --> Anger --> Stress.
Makes sense so far?
But what if you can create a DIFFERENT chain reaction. Instead of having
Frustration activate Anger, let's say it activates Calmness and Creativity.
Let's say that those states in turn activate Excitement.
The structure would then be: Frustration --> Calmness and Creativity -->
You see? The SAME EMOTION (frustration) does not HAVE to lead to stress.
If you link it with the kind of emotions you want, the "negative" emotion
can activate a POSITIVE emotion! Stress is NOT a necessary condition of
this or that emotion!
Let's see how this might work differently. Let's say that Frustration
activates a Balance Monitoring System. Whenever you begin feeling
frustrated, this Balance Monitoring System kicks in and causes you to ask
yourself some questions such as, "what can I do to solve this problem?" "how
can I use this problem to my advantage?" "what can I do right now to
increase my inner calmness?" and so on. This Balance Monitoring System is
like your inner gyroscope that doesn't allow you to sway too far either way.
In this example the structure would be: Frustration --> Balance Monitoring
System --> Balance and Inner Calmness.
Makes sense?


There was much Kissing in old town Pasadena. I never knew how powerful
counting was. Nod Nod Wink Wink.
Brief background I met her Sunday at a photo shoot. I walked up to where she
was posing and introduced myself. Right away I impressed her with the
introduction. I got her laughing then delivered two good patterns.
1. Now double that feeling.
2. It isn't necessary for you to associate all those wonderful feelings with
every time you think of me.
After that things went really well with her at the shoot. I easily had her
laughing and feeling good.
Thursday night we met at a Starbucks. Brief story, I got her felling good
anchored it to her wrist then slid up to her shoulder. Holding it I got a
confirmation she was feeling pretty good. Then zipped it up to the top of
her head. She was laughing and laughing then I commanded that "notice that
you can't even speak, and the more you try to talk the more your just mmmmm
yea, mmmmmm yea. I asked her her name how old are you what is my name. "Ok
now you can talk" Her "I'm speechless" So I had her anchored to mmmmm yea,
so I kinda played around with it. Then we went outside for a walk. Then said
mmmmm yea mmmmm yea, now notice how as I count to 3 that you have a strong
desire to kiss me. And we did. Well we did a lot of kissing, lots. I told
her I could get her to orgasm on command, but I'm in no hurry. Now all I
have to do is go mmmmm yea and then give her direct hypnotic commands.


>Horn Dog (You can trust me, I'm ugly):
>To whit: "relax, you can trust me because I'm
>ugly/geeky/attached/married/ordained/drafted (or whatever) In the
>let's be friends!" (but you know damn well you're going to lay on all your
>moves and patterns in thick layers from the very beginning). Deceptive?
>Maybe. Make your own ethics choices, of course, but worth a thought.

As a "chyck," I wanted to add my perspective. When do "bitch" shields go
down? I have been and would be more receptive to a man regardless of how
ugly/geeky/attached/married/ordained/drafted (or whatever) he is IF he were
to approach me DIFFERENTLY than what I have been used to: the typical
obnoxious arrogant stud PUA who bullies me or the wimpy dorky AFC who just
stands there speechless with his knees shaking. SS offers you choices on how
to act. And how not to act.
I don't think it's deceptive or unethical because with SS, it is up to the
woman to ultimately decide, after you lay down all the moves and patterns,
whether or not she wants to do anything with you. And with SS, if she really
wants to stay "just friends" with you, that's all you'll be, and with SS you
know when to bail if being just friends isn't what you want because on the
other side of this game is the hot babe who gets these dorky guys and then
says "let's just be friends" after the guys have dumped a ton of cash on

That's what I call deceptive.


>Divine (Daddy's little hypnoslut):
>I had a policy (after dating hot guys and models) never to date anyone
>really good looking, for ONE simple reason. Good looking guys are jerks.
>Period. Good looking men get fussed over and handed special privileges
>from the getgo, woman throw themselves at them and let them get away with
>garbage. They come to expect you to abase yourself at the feet of their
>grandeur just because they are. Dating a good looking guy is the emotional
>equivalent of being a servant, and your supposed to be grateful to be
>serving. I suppose it's not their fault, it's the woman who lets them get
>away with this shit just because they are good looking that teaches them
>be this way. NO accountability.

Linda: I agree with Divine...good looking dudes usually are jerks because
they have been getting way with being jerks by women who REWARD them for
being that way. Why should they act differently? And unfortunately, the same
goes for good looking women!


> Here's my thought for the week: Having experienced stress for different
> reasons at different times in my life, I was thinking 'what would be the
> ideal state of mind that I would like to be in?' Of course, the first
> thought that comes to mind is that of being on vacation. But what I
> remembered is the three week vacation. If you've ever been on vacation
> three weeks, you may have experienced, as I have, that the first week you
> are just starting to relax, the second week you really start to enjoy it,
> and the third week you don't remember where you came from. It is that
> of mind which I could certainly use right now but it also occurred to me
> that there is a problem with this because usually when you come back
> being away for three weeks you return to your regular life and this state
> sooner or later reverts itself to your usual stressed out state.
> the ideal situation would be if you could turn this state of mind on for
> evenings and weekends and not lose the focus you need for work. Any ideas
> about this?

Well since you asked, although it doesn't have much to do with seduction.
The techniques I use in order:
1. Friday night, I leave work and physically leave the area. I go
someplace about 5 - 15 minutes away. There, I pull out a journalists
notepad (one of those spiral bound 3" x 5" kind that fit in a breast pocket)
and write down where I am on all projects, all open to do items, any other
notes of importance. I do this so that my subconscious can feel good about
forgetting about the stress causing items.
2. I get involved with some intense activity for at least 45 minutes.
Intense physical exercise is good. Practicing a foreign (to me) language,
playing a musical instrument, painting at an easel all also work for me.
Something that forces me to think in a different way or with a different
part of my brain. I find it takes a minimum of 15 minutes to just start
thinking (or being) in an alternative way.
3. Meditate for a minimum of 15 minutes. Although I practice several
methods of meditation, for this I use a zen or a chi-gong method, something
that uses an empty mind style meditation. I have also used yoga rest
4. Having a plan of the things I'm going to do over the weekend, that are
very unworklike is very helpful. I work on building a sense of anticipation
to doing them, even if its only work on a tan, or take a sauna. I think of
what it is I like about them. I hallucinate about them with as many senses
as I can.
5. I change clothes.
6. I do the things I have promised myself, although I do not lose my ability
to be spontaneous.
7 Come Monday morning, I have the list I made Friday night to get me back
into the work week groove.


Alphahero (re: The Elusive Female Orgasm):
She really enjoys sex, that's not the problem. She just cannot seem to
orgasm. She has been close numerous times, though it just seems like she
needs a little something extra. I tried the "triple play" that someone
posted a long time ago. The one about stimulating her anus, clitoris, and
g-spot all at the same time. That one didn't work either.
This girl really means a lot to me, and we have so much fun together. The
only thing that's missing is making her scream, moan, and watch her face
contort while she writhes in pleasure as she is digging her nails into my
back, as she orgasms multiple times.
Every girl I have been with I have always taken pride in the fact that I
make the girl cum first. So needless to say, this is driving me fucking
nuts!!!!  Suggestions?


Divine (Daddy's Little Hypno Slut):
There are, of course, shallow women, just as there are shallow men. In my
experience the ones hung up on looks are that way because they themselves
have nothing else to offer. It takes much more to capture the interest of
any woman worth having..or man worth having.  I even have a male friend that
purposely tells women they can't keep his attention..and they try. Mostly, a
few tell him to get stuffed and those are the ones he pursues. Ironic, isn't
it. The more confidant you are w/o being arrogant (well hmmmphh that works
unfortunately) the more people are attracted.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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