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"Most women are not expecting to be seduced while they are out shopping at the mall"

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Most women are not expecting to be seduced while they are out shopping at the mall
Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:04:35 -0500


Adam (Commenting to Divine on her comments to Linda):
>Linda asks "when does the bitch shield come down?". I would say typically
>once an HB turns about 29... Some females lose their looks earlier than
>that age (case in point; Alicia ["man-hands"] Silverstone or Drew
>and their "bitch shields" will need to come down at a much earlier age.
>former HB's lose their looks, they might be lucky if some "dorky AFC" with
>shaky knees even notices them, let alone approaches them.

I have to disagree. I'm now living in this high-end apartment complex in
Austin where the management hires foxy looking women in their 40's who are
TOTAL BABES but walk around with EXTREME BITCH SHIELDS because they know
they're still hot. A Babe is a Babe is a Babe. Regardless of age.
And I'll argue that it's probably a bit harder to break through their bitch
shields, as they've had additional years of boys kissing their asses to
reinforce their holiness.


My response to Bjorn: On when the bitch shields go down:
"Bjorn: To Linda:
Linda asks "when does the bitch shield come down?". I would say
typically once an HB turns about 29... Some females lose their
looks earlier than that age (case in point; Alicia ["man-hands"]
Silverstone or Drew Barrymore) and their "bitch shields" will need to come
down at a much earlier age. "

I suspect that this is true. It would seem that in America an attractive HB
doesn't really grow up until her looks start to fade; when she discovers she
can no longer compete as easily with HB's ten years younger than her. The
problem here is: Who the fuck wants when they turn to crap? There are a lot
of old broads I have met here (35+) who I look at and can just
imagine how absolutely stunning they might have been at 20.
Now, before anyone reading this goes into the "Hey, what's so bad about a
more mature women with experience, etc. . . yadda yadda yadda", In my
opinion, geezer love is for afc's and guys who can't get hot young ones. And
one does not need much seduction skills to bag an old bag. The difference
could be for those who have a fetish for this sort of thing. Guys who have a
fixation for old chycks and fat broads are very lucky; there is an abundance
of them, and they are more desperate for a man, which gives them more
leverage with these kind of women.


In a way, mating is like fighting. There are certain attributes that give
one an advantage. When it comes to fighting, size, strength, stamina,
speed, endurance and a fighting spirit are advantages. So, why is it that
guys who posses all these traits SOMETIMES get their asses kicked by guys
who come up short in all save the last category? Simple, The big guy
figured that, with all his advantages, he just had to land the straight
right hand his Dad taught him. The little guy had a pretty good idea of
what was coming, Dodged it & attacked all the weak spots that the big guy
never learned how to defend. In short, he knew what he was doing. The big
guy didn't.
Mating is the same. Looks, money, prestige, fame & a dick the size of a
baby's arm are all advantages. But, the whole trick behind mating is to
find out how your prospect really wants to feel and make her feel that way.
The guy who can do that will practically ALWAYS beat out the guy who can't,
even if he's outgunned in other ways.
Now, imagine how successful you'd be if you had all the advantages AND knew
what you were doing.


>Someone on your list asked for links to stuff written by the guy behind
>Tao of Steve. Below is a link to an relationship/seduction advice column
>written by Duncan, the real-life PUA on whom the Tao of Steve is based.
>Hopefully your readers will find this useful. There's some other stuff on
>that same website that may be of interest as well.

Just checked it out! Duncan is a VERY bright guy with lots of
insight and a great sense of humor. I can see how and why chycks
would like him. I think a real key to his success is, HE DOESN'T
IDEALIZE WOMEN. He sees them for how and who they are. If he learned
a little SS he'd be VERY dangerous.


Linda (Commenting on:  I don't think it's deceptive or unethical because
with SS, it is up to the woman to ultimately decide, after you lay down all
the moves and patterns, whether or not she wants to do anything with you.
And with SS, if she really wants to stay "just friends" with you, that's all
you'll be, and with SS you know when to bail if being just friends isn't
what you want. decided that he wants to sleep with a woman simply by initiating the
process, and that somehow the woman is control of both directions on the
two-way street that is seduction. Is an ethical seduction one in which one
gender ultimately decides the other's path? Maybe if you're into S&M. I
wouldn't think so. What if she decides that she wants to do something with
you, but you don't? But this isn't about ethics, it's about the following: I
look at SS as a better process of screening women; determining whether or
not she'll be an "attention whore," psycho, what have you, - or - someone
that you'd really like to continue with for all your own, and her own,
reasons. I don't want to sound arrogant, but the challenge lies not in
getting a roll in the hay - it's in creating an experience that's enjoyable
at more than just a single moment.")

Yes, I've presupposed that the man wants sex. Eventually. Don't most men use
SS for that reason? And you've made some interesting points. Perhaps I was
unclear in my explanation. I was wrong in saying that the woman decides
ultimately because as you pointed out that the man decides when he wants to
stop his pursuit.
I do believe that we agree on the points you bring up. Many people, both men
and women, have debated with me about the ethicalness of SS, of using NLP
for the purpose of improving one's chances to have sex. You're right in that
SS isn't a matter of ethics; it's a matter of communication. SS improves
communication and that's good. I've always thought SS was a great thing for
both parties involved for that reason. Yes, the man screens a woman with SS.
He begins and she responds. Based on that response he continues. Or not.
With SS men pay attention to a woman's response and act accordingly. Most
men who don't use SS just keep on hitting on a woman even though she's
giving nonverbals that tell him to go away.


Spin Doctor:
Re:Divines rolling tirade and her attempt to shame the guy who wrote her
Yes, guys like to fuck and even more so to add conquests to their lists,
that's all.  It's in the genes and I don't mean Levis.  FYI your piece
represents mostly unconscious projections of your animus the man inside of
you that you see in other men.  Unfortunately, your ego which has been
formed by what
you have been told to accept is disgusted with this REALITY.  I for one
would savour the scenario of the death bed you portray.  They would be fond
memories of a fruitful life doing what comes naturally from primordial urges
without ego being the fashion of the day.


Re: City girls vs. Country girls or whatever. Reminds me of when I was
growing up. Being a Protestant, the common thing I heard was that the
Catholic girls screwed like bunnies so the thing to do was just go find
a Catholic girl to for true happiness.  Was talking to a Catholic guy and he
was telling me that he and his buddies were always out on the lookout for
Protestant girls as they screwed like bunnies!  My point being is that for
some reason, we seem to feel like if conditions were different - we'd meet a
Catholic/Protestant/City/Rural girl - anything different than what's around
us now, we'd be doing a whole lot better than we are now.  Seems like
seeking for a change in the external condition is much easier than looking
inside ourselves and making those changes so it didn't matter if the women
around us are Catholic/Protestant/City/Rural, they'd just be women and we'd
just go for it anyway!


>To Linda:
>Linda asks "when does the bitch shield come down?". I would say typically
>once an HB turns about 29... Some females lose their looks earlier than
>that age (case in point; Alicia ["man-hands"] Silverstone or Drew
>and their "bitch shields" will need to come down at a much earlier age.
>former HB's lose their looks, they might be lucky if some "dorky AFC" with
>shaky knees even notices them, let alone approaches them.

Yeah, I put down my bitch shield in my late twenties but it was mainly
because of wisdom rather than age or loss of looks...
Well, I can't speak for all women but as I said before, if a guy has an
interesting, fun and different approach, I think that even the hottest babe
with the toughest shield may put hers down out of curiosity. I think the
same goes for the HB guys. I know women who may not be the prettiest but
because they have a great personality and are fun to be around, they have
landed some great guys who love them and think they are HB's.
Age, loss of looks and gains in weight are factors, for some women to dump
the shield. Desperation is another factor. But there are some old, heavy
non-HB's who still put theirs up. I think Ross's advice about approaching
chycks in places other than clubs and bars must be taken...most women are
not expecting to be seduced while they are out shopping at the mall or
getting a latte at Starbucks. There's something about the unexpected.
>To Linda/Devine:
>My comment on "good looking guys are jerks". Well, it is women who make
>these guys into jerks in the first place. It is a proven fact that HB's
>PREFER good looking guys who are jerks and mistreat them, case in point;
>Charlie Sheen. What is one of the most common phrases amongst HB's???
>Give up??
>"I can't believe I slept with him!!! He is such a jerk!!!"
>One thing I am grateful for about SS and this newsletter is that I have
>educated to NEVER ever supplicate to an HB again. Comments from Linda and
>other females are appreciated and simply reinforce the point of non

Thanks, Bjorn!
Most of my friends are men, nice guys who are AFC's and I have seen them get
trampled by chycks. Or they are unhappy because they get chycks they don't
really like or respect, usually settling for some psycho baggage queen.
While I recommended SS to them, most of them went to the website and were
offended by some of the stuff. Oh, well. If they keep doing what they're
doing, they are going to keep getting what they're getting.


dj eclypz:
This Don fellah had to rehash the old Bjorn situation. Awhh Bjorn, now
there's another guy that I got something to say to. Bjorn, with all due
sincerity, you mentioned a PUA frame a while back. Well, I'm here to tell
you that I haven't met a pick up artist yet.
More like a pick up performer.
Ross has mentioned before the difference between a performer and an artist.
I'm not going to go into it, but therein lies a distinction.
Do you want to perform a rehearsed routine fitting within other's
expectations and pleasing everyone else, or would you rather be an artist
and shape and mold the way others see things, presenting them an opportunity
to see things differently?
You're all just playing games aren't you? stand up and be counted.
Whatever your intent is when introducing yourself to a "brawd" or an "HB" or
a "hottie" you need to discover what it truly is.
I've already told plenty of people, including women, that I don't play
games. After all why would you want to sit in front of a computer screen and
push buttons, when you could live this adventure right here in front of you
right now with me! Why would you want to play with a woman's heart
INTENTIONALLY for just a moment's pleasure? Why aren't you man enough to
just state what it is you want? I've done it before. I have told a woman,
hey look. All I really want right now is wild sex. Nothing more. Are you
And you know what? When I say it I mean it. I am no longer going to sit on
my ass. I'm no longer going to allow other's stereotypes, generalizations,
negativity, or self limitations to ever hold me back again. I'm sick and
tired of all this shit. Number one, all the griping about whether this shit
works or not. SS this SS that. For Christsakes people, Ross didn't invent
the wheel! Yes, Ross figured out some kick ass shit so us boys could get off
our asses and learn how to be men. But people have been doing this ever
since the beginning of time! Poets, politicians, lawyers, teachers,
hypnotists, and just regular people have used the power of language to their
benefit. The only difference is, for the most part, they didn't know how
they were doing it!  That's where Ross stepped in. Now you're prolly
thinkin' what is it about this ss stuff that makes you a man? Getting laid?
NOPE! Spewing forth poetic ramblings, does that make you a man? NOPE!
The most important thing I learned about this stuff, is that it has forced
me to finally look at all the crap I had been carrying around with me for
years. It has made me totally look back at the way I used to look at things,
and look forward into infinite possibilities. Spit out all the patterns you
want. Go ahead, try them. PATTERNS ARE LIKE WORKSHEETS. They are frames,
examples. They are ways of you being able to notice the power of words.
But, put no power behind those words, and you're screwed.
Go on living life in your shell, go on hating women or rather your
stereotype of women. Go on pulling tricks out of your hat, go on being a
PLAYER (I don't know what Ross thinks, but I took on SS precisely because I
wanted to avoid the PLAYER world entirely.)
Ok, look. This is a seduction list. It isn't limited to SS. That's why I
like this list. No limits. One thing I hope to get out of this list is just
that. No limits. And all I have been hearing has been limited ways of
thinking.  THAT HAS TO STOP!
One other thing. I like grounded research gotten through experience.
That's why I seldom write to Cliff, or post to other lists. I wait to have
something verifiable that everyone can use. I don't sit around and
conjecture 'til I pass out and then send it into Cliff.
I can see why other guys don't believe ss can work (it can't by the way.
Only the person behind the words can make anything happen).  So continue
your doubt. Or become headstrong with your belief that it doesn't. I believe
there is a guy named R. Don Steele waiting to get a business partner. Maybe
you guys can sell pheromones or something.
Whatever you decide to do, decide something and quit relying on this
newsletter to be a backboard for your lack of adventure, and start sharing
some ideas that might possibly help others to live out their dreams of
having options in life, like who they can fall in love with.
After all, that's what it's all about my friends, LOVE.


Divine (Daddy's little hypnoslut):
(Commenting on:  "Bjorn said:To Linda/Divine:
My comment on "good looking guys are jerks". Well, it is women who make
these guys into jerks in the first place. It is a proven fact that HB's
PREFER good looking guys who are jerks and mistreat them, case in point;
Charlie Sheen. What is one of the most common phrases amongst HB's???
Give up??
"I can't believe I slept with him!!! He is such a jerk!!!"
One thing I am grateful for about SS and this newsletter is that I have been
educated to NEVER ever supplicate to an HB again. Comments from Linda and
other females are appreciated and simply reinforce the point of non

I stated previously hot guys (and hot girls) are this way because
they are taught they can get away with it. This is way kowtowing
(supplicating) to desirable men or women is not the way to go. At best they
just aren't interested and at worst they see you as someone they can "play"
for stuff and discard. Some hotties in both categories are simply going to
be shallow and empty no matter what, but those who are worth it will respond
much better to a confidant and selfpositive person. That's what my guyfriend
that uses the "you can't interest me approach" is doing. He just KNOWS it,
is the only difference. He knows that the ones worth pursuing are those
whose self esteem is such that they aren't going to beg or chase or
supplicate. His technique is arrogant to a point, but valid. He quickly
weeds out those that are weak. Granted this leaves behind broken hearts but
is kind in it's own fashion, albeit twisted kindness. He isn't pulling any
Beauty is revered so much in this society that those who have are often
misserved by getting too much too easily. I say, imo, this is no real
service as many fail to learn important integrity lessons and therefore fail
to get anything meaningful from anything or anyone they encounter. It's sad
really, but some are taught better and those are the ones that are worth
knowing. Again, if one's only motivation is a notch of hotties on their
belts..they have their own shallow souls to worry them. They were taught the
inverse side of the beauty trap of our society, that having or conquering
beauty is fulfilling in and of itself, regardless what quality of person or
contact that conquest is. Now being able to attract and interact with beauty
and personality, that's the real challenge and gifts one with the real
treasure, be it for a short term fling or a relationship.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



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Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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