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"The poor things get fat as pigs"

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The poor things get fat as pigs
Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:35:22 -0500


> >Of course being in a state of "vacation" is good and healthy. My point
> >though is this.
> >As a human being, you experience MANY different states throughout the
> >Some of the emotions you feel are "positive" (i.e., you want them) and
> >are "negative" (i.e., they don't feel good to you and you don't want
> >Typically there is some sort of chain reaction: you feel emotion X and
> >triggers emotion Y which triggers emotion Z, and so on.
> >The question you need to ask yourself is which emotions do I want
> >throughout the day?
> >For example: let's say you feel Frustration at something minor at work.
> >doesn't have to be any major frustration, it could be something like,
> >"damn,
> >what the hell is taking the computer so long to download??" OK? So you
> >feel a momentary Frustration. In the past that Frustration might have
> >"activated" another feeling, let's say Anger ("arrrrr.... I'm going to
> >Bill Gates!!"). And let's say that those two feelings caused a lot of
> >stress. You stored those feelings in your body, so to speak, and the
> >they build the more stress you felt.
> >The structure so far is: Frustration --> Anger --> Stress.
> >Makes sense so far?
> >But what if you can create a DIFFERENT chain reaction. Instead of having
> >Frustration activate Anger, let's say it activates Calmness and
> >Let's say that those states in turn activate Excitement.
> >The structure would then be: Frustration --> Calmness and Creativity -->
> >Excitement.
> >You see? The SAME EMOTION (frustration) does not HAVE to lead to stress.
> >If you link it with the kind of emotions you want, the "negative"
> >can activate a POSITIVE emotion! Stress is NOT a necessary condition of
> >this or that emotion!
> >Let's see how this might work differently. Let's say that Frustration
> >activates a Balance Monitoring System. Whenever you begin feeling
> >frustrated, this Balance Monitoring System kicks in and causes you to
> >yourself some questions such as, "what can I do to solve this problem?"
> >"how
> >can I use this problem to my advantage?" "what can I do right now to
> >increase my inner calmness?" and so on. This Balance Monitoring System
> >like your inner gyroscope that doesn't allow you to sway too far either
> >way.
> >In this example the structure would be: Frustration --> Balance
> >System --> Balance and Inner Calmness.
> >Makes sense?

Someone who loves to talk a lot wrote the following (who was it? Not Cliff,
I think--right?):
> That is alot of messy shit. The model is far too large and cumbersome. I
> have a better concept that works WONDERS for me. The emotion is:
> Bad mood or good, by being TALKATIVE you are able to convey your
> personality, even if you are bitter boy (Being bitter boy has gotten me
> several times). HOW to get yourself into this mood? There are 2 ways. One
> to talk about ANYTHING on your way to the club with your wings. Even if
> just shit talk. Just talk talk talk talk talk. The other way, if you
> are alone in the club, is to approach the first 3 sets with the notion of
> just GEARING UP your brain. Talk talk talk talk talk. It solves
> INTERNAL. You aren't worrying about what to say because you are in a
> talkative mood. It just flows out like water.

My Comment: It was Mystery.

Zvi (Continuing): I don't have the time to comment in length, but I have to
clarify that my idea is not only about the state you want to have while
meeting women.. but in general, 24-7.

Second, do what works for you. Personally I don't think that just talking
can put you in the kind of state you want. Talking might or might not
distract you from shitty states, but I'd like to go WAY beyond that into the
kind of positive, fantastic states that are possible for humans to feel. I
think it's not enough to just "not be in a bad mood" -- what's more
important and ever so much more fascinating is to live at the far edge of
the wondrous feelings you can stand to have. Just talking yourself out of
bad states wouldn't do that, of course. What if you were to ask yourself,
If I could feel the most fantastic feelings a human being can ever feel,
what would I feel? What would I choose to feel? How would I feel it? How
would I know that I feel it?
Precision, my friend.. precision.


TGB663 (Commenting on Bjorn):
>What is one of the most common phrases amongst HB's???
>Give up??
>"I can't believe I slept with him!!! He is such a jerk!!!"

I do not think that your interpretation is valid as the jerk is a jerk only
after he has become one. Generally, I think there are few sick people who
target people who treat them badly. Afaik (as far as I know) there are few
(hypno-) slut-seeking guys as well. The point in these seemingly correct
statements (and their occurence on this list) is that they are handy
simplifications. Fucking what is beauty only isn't that a satisfying act
because there has to be some sort of connection which can make minds become
excited because there is this 'magical link' building which is the essence
of passion. You won't deny that there has to be some of this to make your
bedding with s.o. worth it, will you? There is no such thing as the dick or
cunt who wouldn't get turned off by the (seeming?) mindless ass he
confronts. I think we do self-hypnotize in seduction and should balance that
very well at every time to try to stay
a.) self-aware
b.) open-minded
c.) fair
But the world is neither and we all will be just sluts and jerks in the eyes
others more or less. Do we have to force that? Why should we? I know that I
myself should make it my daily prayer to always try to keep some sort of a
balance going. We get what we give so neither should keep the change nor
jingle it.


I'm not sure who said this on your newsletter, but I
am responding to it:
"Beauty is revered so much in this society that those
who have are often misserved by getting too much too easily."

So true! Very true. This is one of the things fucked up with American
culture. There is nothing wrong with pursuing beauty, but when you live in a
society that harps on it so much, a lot of chycks, if not most in the United
States who grow up to be stunning turn into complete bitches as a result.
Hence, they need to be given the jerk treatment and set off balance a bit so
you have more leverage.
That is precisely why I am against the proverbial "I just wanted to say
you're stunning....." opening line which has been brought up a few times in
editions of this newsletter. Saying this to an HB is complete SUPPLICATING
Once you say that to an HB you are STUFFED AND MOUNTED. End of issue! I
cannot stress this enough!(A good book to read is F.J. Shark's "How To Be
The Jerk Women Love" assuming it's still in print. Check out

The inverse effect of this dynamic are the behaviors we see in women who are
less attractive.  Because this group of more average looking women are
subjected to this kind of value system in our current mass culture, a lot of
them think to themselves "Gee, I'll never be as hot as Carmen Electra, or
Laetitia Casta, so why should I bother?"  What results here are these women
getting really low self esteem, and doing self-defeating things such as
overeating. Now the poor things get fat as pigs with no chance of landing a


Max Kool:
> I suspect that this is true. It would seem that in America an attractive
> doesn't really grow up until her looks start to fade; when she discovers
> can no longer compete as easily with HB's ten years younger than her. The
> problem here is: Who the fuck wants when they turn to crap? There are a
> of old broads I have met here (35+) who I look at and can just
> imagine how absolutely stunning they might have been at 20.
> Now, before anyone reading this goes into the "Hey, what's so bad about a
> more mature women with experience, etc. . . yadda yadda yadda", In my
> opinion, geezer love is for afc's and guys who can't get hot young ones.

I'm 18 and I'd still rather have an older HOT babe than a younger one,
(note that by 'older', I mean 20-30 y.o., which is still 'older' to me).
Besides, most young HBs are taken by us young studs (hehe).
I think that 'aged' (40+) guys hitting on younger (18-25) chicks is rather..
sick. There are plenty of good looking older women out there, and I've no
idea why old guys would rather have young babes. Maybe they are more of a
challenge? Dunno, but I find young chicks A LOT easier to seduce.

My Comment:  It may look sick to you now, but, believe me, it will look like
a necessity to you soon enough...

Max Kool (Continuing):
> And
> one does not need much seduction skills to bag an old bag.

Then again, 'oldness' is relative, since I find women in their early 30's
old, but probably someone in their late 40's thinks they are young.
> The difference
> could be for those who have a fetish for this sort of thing. Guys who
> fixation for old chycks and fat broads are very lucky; there is an
> of them, and they are more desperate for a man, which gives them more
> leverage with these kind of women.

It would have helped if I knew what you meant by 'old' here, because
hot chicks in their 30's and 40's - over here, at least - are NOT any more
desperate for men than hot chicks in their 20's.
> I do believe that we agree on the points you bring up. Many people, both
> and women, have debated with me about the ethicalness of SS, of using NLP
> for the purpose of improving one's chances to have sex. You're right in
> SS isn't a matter of ethics; it's a matter of communication.

By the way,  personally I don't give a damn whether it's unethical or
immoral to
use SS. Life is unfair. If there was a magic perfume that I could wear that
would make any HB I want, want me back, I wouldn't think twice before using
Would anyone else?
> Most of my friends are men, nice guys who are AFC's and I have seen them
> trampled by chycks. Or they are unhappy because they get chycks they
> really like or respect, usually settling for some psycho baggage queen.
> While I recommended SS to them, most of them went to the website and were
> offended by some of the stuff. Oh, well. If they keep doing what they're
> doing, they are going to keep getting what they're getting.

All of my friends think SS is bullshit, even though I have repeatedly
proven its effectiveness to them. They're not offended by it or anything,
they just think 'stuff like that could never work'. I'm European and they
tell me, "that kinda stuff only works with American chicks". I think they're
narrow-minded chicken shits.
This is good nevertheless. If all guys used SS, it wouldn't be special
anymore. It'd probably stop working.
> After all, that's what it's all about my friends, LOVE.

Nah. Sex. :)


Divine (Daddy's little hypnoslut):
>...for old chycks and fat broads are very lucky; there is an abundance
>of them, and they are more desperate for a man, which gives them more
>leverage with these kind of women. "

Ummm, this is just not true. I know many women who fall into both categories
who are just as picky as a "HB"'s all about attitude and confidence and
just because a women is older or heavier does NOT mean she lacks either, or
males pursuing them either. It's a myth that heavy or older women sit home
alone, that's silly.
>Spin Doctor:
>Re:Divines rolling tirade and her attempt to shame the guy who wrote her
>Yes, guys like to fuck and even more so to add conquests to their lists,
>that's all. It's in the genes and I don't mean Levis. FYI your piece
>represents mostly unconscious projections of your animus the man inside of
>you that you see in other men. Unfortunately, your ego which has been
>formed by what
>you have been told to accept is disgusted with this REALITY. I for one
>would savour the scenario of the death bed you portray. They would be fond
>memories of a fruitful life doing what comes naturally from primordial
>without ego being the fashion of the day.

You missed the point, love. I had also stated earlier that all men want to
get the bone on...delicate way to say it "not". I know men want to
fuck...stated it myself. Nothing wrong with that..or with pursuing women. My
statement was aimed at ONE person who's response to my statement about
quality was basically, "Why the fuck should I care about quality as long as
I get to bone many numbers". That's sad. Hey I've slept with many guys and
during my post divorce era I was the predator, I picked who I wanted to
entertain me and for a while they weren't for more than a night or a week. I
told them this from the getgo. HOWEVER, I was always disappointed when the
person I played with turned out to be a shallow and empty person. So I could
bang any guy I still, whether for a day or week was more
fulfilling and rewarding when the person had depth to them. What's his faces
response was that the women he wanted could have NO personality as long as
he got his cock in them. So what? If you can't enjoy the person as well as
the sex you might as well be fucking a plastic doll. What's the point? I
look back fondly on all my adventures, except those that turned out to be
with empty jerks. I am still friends with ex-lovers (even those I only
once). I look at my wild times with fond memories and certainly having had a
wide experience is good on the eve of our lives. That was not what I
referred to. Can you really tell me that you find fulfillment simply
scanning past one breathing Barbie to the next? Or is the fulfillment more
in recalling the give and take of meeting, the meshing of minds and desires,
the challenges each unique personality came with, the excitement of learning
and exploring and understanding each new person, the variety of
personalities encountered. Again, I have nothing against flings..had MANY
myself, and yes, fond memories of each. But they weren't generic Ken dolls
with anatomically correct parts that are so alike they could be the same
person. How boring would that be? I can remember the different personalities
and quirks and responses of each and THAT is what gives the memories
quality...if I viewed men as interchangeable cocks that's all they would be
and no one memory would be any different. How dull and empty is THAT!! And
that is what I was referring to, not flings in general. You, it sounds,
fully explore and appreciate all that male female interaction gifts us with,
therefore you get something more than a warm place to cum out of it. That is
the intrinsic difference.

Divine comments to Adam (Commenting to Divine on her comments to Linda):
I made NO comment as to the "bitch shield" whatsoever...that was someone
else and therefore the rebuttal has nothing whatever to do with me.


> Adam (Commenting to Divine on her comments to Linda):
> >Linda asks "when does the bitch shield come down?". I would say
> >once an HB turns about 29..

Actually, from what I've seen, in many cases it doesn't come down AT ALL, or
at least not until long after it should have, resulting in an extremely
frustrated and messed-up woman. Her notion is "I'm a Babe, men should grovel
before me!," when the reality is, "I used to be a Babe 10 or 20 or 30 years
ago, but I refuse to recognize that anything has changed!" I know one woman
who is about 54, and no doubt was a true Babe in her younger days. (I'm only
a few years younger than that myself, but my recent girlfriends have been in
their late 30's to mid 40's). She looks damn good for her 50's, but let's
face it, her glory-days are definitely past. (And I've run across many other
women like her.) But she still has the illusion that some really fantastic
guy will blast through her bitch-shield and sweep her off her feet. I even
tried to reason with her that such a marvelous guy, should he come along,
would prefer to get a younger woman for the same amount of  trouble: "If so,
it would just be proof of his shallowness," she replied.
Nonetheless, I *did* sleep with her a little while back when we found
ourselves together in a cozy little place for a few days. Her body language»
and flirtation made it evident that she would welcome my advances, as she
eventually did, but first she made me play all kind of games of
"hot/cold/hot/cold/start/stop/etc". For that much effort expended, I
probably could have bagged Cameron Diaz, had she been there. And this poor
lady doesn't understand WHY she can't find a man to meet her liking! When
you run into women like this, they are NOT worth the trouble, especially for
a longer "relationship." They'll give you tremendous grief, and little else!
My approach to the science of seduction is probably different from that of
most of the other guys on this list. For one thing, I don't use "patterns,"
although I do make limited use of "re-framing" and "embedded commands."
Indeed, I don't expect to do a tremendous amount of talking. There is a kind
of "silent strength" that turns women on. In their movies, Humphrey Bogart,
Clark Gable, or Bruce Willis were not exactly great talkers, but their
worldly-wise ways and inner character turned on millions of women. A knowing
gaze, or what is sometimes called "bedroom eyes," is a bigger turn-on for
many women that somebody who sounds like he's reciting a Gilbert and
Sullivan patter-song. Nothing succeeds like success, and if you can convey
to the women you meet that you have been successful in getting Babes, they
think of you as "a good one",  and want to know you more. The rest is up to
I expect a seduction to take an entire evening. I think that if a woman is
agreeable to spending several hours with a man in a situation where a
seduction would be possible, she is effectively saying "OK, big boy, here I
am, do you have what it takes?" She will inevitably toss at least *some*
obstacles in your path, depending on the strength of her bitch shield,  just
to see if you are man enough to overcome them. The typical AFC will shrink
away from them, of course, so she is merely trying to keep unworthy guys out
of her panties. If you can convince her that you are a very experienced
lover who knows how the game is played, then you can get her very hot for


Anybody out there have a copy of the pattern that starts out:
A great lover is very sensitive to the needs of his partner,
how she softly moans, where she twitches...
as she becomes gradually and gradually more and more engulfed
by a building growing pleasure...
And do you know where it came from?


dj eclypz said:
>This Don fellah had to rehash the old Bjorn situation. Awhh Bjorn, now
>there's another guy that I got something to say to. Bjorn, with all due
>sincerity, you mentioned a PUA frame a while back. Well, I'm here to tell
>you that I haven't met a pick up artist yet......
>Why would you want to play with a woman's heart INTENTIONALLY for >just a
moment's pleasure? Why aren't you man enough to just state what it is >you
want? I've done it before. I have told a woman, hey look. All I really >want
right now is wild sex. Nothing more. Are you interested? And you >know what?
When I say it I mean it. I am no longer going to sit on my ass....
>Whatever you decide to do, decide something and quit relying on this
>newsletter to be a backboard for your lack of adventure, and start sharing
>some ideas that might possibly help others to live out their dreams of
having >options in life, like who they can fall in love with.
>After all, that's what it's all about my friends, LOVE....

Bjorn: I agree with you that "pick up performer" is a better analogy than
"pick up artist" for the successful SS incumbent.  But "PUP" sounds more
AFCish than "PUA".... Your comments about stating to the target HB that one
really wants wild sex go against the very premise of FMAC; Find, Meet,
Attract and Close.  It seems as if you are advising to just skip the
"Attract" part of FMAC and try to close ASAP.  This just does not make any
logical sense to me!!!  Isn't it a given that most (normal) guys just want
wild sex???
Lastly, you close your post to the newsgroup by saying that it is all about
falling in love.  This is AFC talk.  I am "wired" to be an alpha male».  Why
concentrate on one female if I can learn how to get 10 hotter ones.  Hugh
Hefner should be a role model and not some AFC supplicating to his one love.


Is 30+ really too old for you guys? Not all 30+ women look like wrinkled,
fat bags of shit but I guess there are far too many of them for some guys to
even consider thinking that there are some HB's in that age range. Where do
you guys live? Are most the "older" women heffers? I know many attractive
interesting women over thirty who aren't as repulsive as some guys have
I think that guys who focus on age and a certain look may be limiting
themselves. You're shrinking the pool of applicants! Yeah, looks and age
matter to certain extent but a more important factor I think is attitude and
There are women I know who are in their thirties who are constantly getting
hit on by younger men. Being thin and well-groomed helps them but I think it
is their receptivity and their ability to establish rapport that keeps these
guys coming around.


D.S. (Responding to Ross):
>Care to go one on one against me in a Sarge contest? I'll whip your ass
>ANYWHERE outside of a club or a bar where I don't go cause I can't make
>myself heard without screaming. I'm 42, VERY AVERAGE, if not Ugly, and
>I'll spot you 2-1..I have to get 2 numbers/kiss closes, etc. for every one
>YOU do.

Sure thing, guy.  I live in Hollywood, Calif.
P.S. Lots of guys go to clubs and make themselves "heard without screaming"
and nail brawds that night.  Why can't you?

My Comment:  The challenge has been accepted.  I think we'd like a report on
the results.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



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Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

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Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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