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"A club with discerning tastes"

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A club with discerning tastes
Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:26:31 -0500


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> Mystery Continues:
> Riiight. Interesting. We verbalize how WE view them (we create this image
> we have for them consciously) and they play the role because they like
> way the role makes them feel.

Interesting interpretation. I agree with your focus on HER emotions instead
of her intellect. And in my interpretation the best way to use this is to
appeal to her HER SELF-IMAGE, or better yet, with her IDEALIZED SELF-IMAGE,
the person she would like to be. Don't appeal to YOUR view of her though --
only do this when it is something that she values as well. Instead, appeal
to HER view of herself. And then connect the opinions and behaviour you want
with her ideals! For those who are looking through an Ericksonian hypnosis
frame, you could interpret it as pacing and leading. Pace her ideal self,
and lead the opinions, emotions and behaviour you want.

So, if you are in LA and the girl wants to be an actress, what is her
self-image you want to appeal to? I don't know. Man, never been to LA. I'd
guess she wants to be a star. Stars are independent. Stars think
Stars trust their own opinion. Stars have a strong internal drive. Appeal to
THAT and attach what you will. So, given that this is a high up on her
emotional value list, you could work in something like...

YOU "You have a very personal style of dressing. You don't see that often
around here. It tells me you are an a strong and independent woman. You are
strong and independent enough (!) to not let what others tell you what you
should do." -- with optionally "I value that in PEOPLE." or "Don't you FEEL
it is essential that people think independently from other people's
opinions?" -- setting up for Cialdini's principle of consistency for later.

HER: "Thank you." or "Yeah. That's right."

YOU: "You know, so often people will do things because they think it is what
others want them to do. You seem different though. You seem independent. You
know, so many people never do ... because they are afraid of what others
might think. Isn't that silly?" -- here you use her internal drive to be
consistent with what she said previously. Now she has an emotional bond
(don't you feel...?) , a self-image bond (independent person) and a
consistency bond (she agreed to your question) to validate what you just
said... at least, that's what I think it does.
> This is very strong stuff. I do this. I
> just don't have that a part of my method on paper.

Now you do.
> You do it not only to flatter them but to build the character they will
want to play.

Yes. To confirm their self-image and to grow towards their idealized
self-image. By complying with your suggestions, she is GROWING, she is
BLOOMING and living up to her own SUPER STANDARD of herself. If she wants to
be cool, tell her it's very cool to go blading. If she wants to be a star,
tell her that all the stars go blading. If she wants to be deep, tell her
it's very deep to go blading...
> So I have an important question: what
> characteristics should we 'perceive' her to be so she can be it? What
> characteristics would be most helpful for us?

No. You have to find HER VALUES and CONNECT them to YOUR WISHES. Of course,
some values are more useful for some of your wishes. IMHO, It would be very
useful to find a number of values that are both vague and general, so that
you can use them all of the time.

1) your "You are very connected with your emotions. You really seem to
listen to them." is brilliant. It is vague, true and a compliment to any
girl. Compliment her on what is IMPORTANT TO HER, not what is important to

2) "You are true to yourself." -- I think this one holds as well. You know
the advice women ALWAYS give to men "Just be yourself." It is no
coincidence! Link this with following her heart, being true to herself and
coming with you, no matter what other people say or do.

3) "You are someone who is strong enough to follow her heart."

4) "You are an independent and strong person." She can make up her own mind.
Link to "Do your friends always tell you who you can kiss or not?" (argh,
this is a RE-frame again!) perhaps more useful in another context. YOU:
"Let's go to this other club." HER: "I have to ask my friend." YOU: "Do you
always have to ask her permission on everything you do?!" -- becomes
PRE-framed "Let's go to this other club. I assume you are independent enough
that you don't have to ask your friends about going, right?"

5) "You are a very deep and spiritual person. You seem to understand and
feel everything at a much deeper level. Forgive me for being surprised."

What's with the "Forgive me for being surprised." line though?

So many words again, and nothing to say to women... :(



Dr. Love:
Here's a little dilemma that I'd like to pose (more as a devil's advocate
of argument than anything else) and I wonder whether you or any of the
guys/babes on the list can resolve it for me:

Major Mark was discussing on the LA videos how young women require a certain
archetype of man to be "the boyfriend" i.e. good-looking, jerk-type social
idol. Fair enough he doesn't ultimately fulfil them - 2 years down the line
when he'd rather be watching football than be with her.

My problem is that by the time she wakes up to the fact that these men don't
give her what she truly wants she's gone from being the 19 year old sweet
cheerleader goddess to being a 26+, jaded, just-put-on-20-extra-pounds woman
who the guys that don't meet the social criteria have to be stuck with.

Yes, I know this is a generalization and some of you may even have banged
the earlier woman mentioned in my example but overall this seams to hold
true. What have I missed in this scenario? (I think MY current jadedness
with human behaviour in general is permeating into my view on women and I
wouldn't mind being kicked back into line).

This brings me to something which most people don't seem to acknowledge
about our relations with women: More NB than anything to most women is a
man's social status (not as money, career or anything else per se but how he
is perceived in the local society in which they live). Essentially, I think
the number one method for banging the best babes is to be a social climber
(hang with the cool people, go to all the right places, keep with the
fashion (but be slightly
creative to keep from appearing like a sheep), do fashionable things, and
enforce your superiority over others within this context. (Which woman would
rather bang the appy than bang the leader?)


I don't think we should dismiss Albert's view out of hand. His approach is
an excellent springboard to more advanced SS -- as a basis it is excellent.

Just allowing myself to go to that extreme made such a difference. I didn't
even have to talk to women. The fact that I could tell them to fuck off any
changed my whole demeanor, and women can tell this a mile away.


> Albert:
> Use the 'insult one woman a day" and monitor the
> results. I recommend
> you use it on those women you would LOVE to meet,
> not on the less fortunate
> ones who are not as pretty. F. Shark's suggestion of
> giving LOW cards to
> pretty women and HIGH cards to the less fortunate
> ones is EXCELLENT.

I agree here -- both Albert and I admire FJ Shark's book. There is one
important point here: if you give too low a card to an HB, it could seem
obvious that you are just doing so because you have in your mind
that you will never be able to score with her. The trick is to give a low
card that is low enough to put the little darling off balance mentally so
she is
compelled to seek your approval, not to make her immediately defensive.

Albert also said :
> I see people in this group working against their own
> goals by referring
> to some women as 'absolutely stunning", a TEN, a
> 10++. Isn't it MORE
> USEFUL to start referring to them as "pretty" and
> NOT "pretty' and in your
> own mind you will bring them down from that pedestal
> and make them smaller
> and much more attainable/accessible?

Yes, this is true. Here is a very helpful hint: If you bros out there live
in an areas of the country I refer to as PIG CENTRAL, then what will happen
is that when those rare times you come across an HB, you instinctively put
them on a pedestal, which is not good. My recommendation is to locate a good
strip club with hot girls [a club with discerning tastes that has HOT
dancers, not some third tier uterus clinic], and simply go there and get
comfortable talking to the girls. Don't concern yourself with sargying them,
just get accustomed to being around them and being nonchalant; and realize
that this is what all women should look like, and it is no big deal. After a
while of going to these high-quality clubs, in time you will stop putting
them on the pedestal.


Commenting on: If we are complaining about
women in today's dating
> scene, it is because men have allowed this to
happen. It is time that men
> reclaim their genitals and NOT put up with crap from
women. This is very
> radical thinking because all of us have been brought
up to think otherwise.
> Can you imagine a world where all the HB's do not
have an attitude???

Eastern Europe. Hot Bodies are dime a dozen, and NO
> Where all HB's do not play games??? No bitch
shields?? If ALL men in
> society decide right here, right now, to not accept
this kind of behavior
> and mentalities from women, things would be a lot
different and much,
> much better! I had gotten into this heated
discussion with a friend
> of mine, and then he proceeded to ask me about where
I stand with
> things like ERA and abortion issues. With regards to
that: equal work
> for equal pay, and a women should have the right to
choose. My point
> that I am making applies to the sexual and romantic
> between the sexes.

The big problem is... most men are too stupid to cooperate with each
other unless their opponents are other men. All you need is like
30% of men to not stick with the program, and the women will reward
them for being useful idiots.

Having been in Russia a couple times...the men there don't put up
with ANY bullshit from women...period!
Consequently, the women there behave VERY well--My
vacations there have been like paradise. :-)


I'm not sure what to make of the 'insult-a-day' program. I was pretty
incredulous that someone was recommending such a program until I read that
the recommender was recommending it merely as a brief program to reprogram
your thinking.  In that sense, it might work. but hey, who is going to
do that in their hometown? Even in a huge fucking city, because you might
run into that brawd again, or run into her friend.  And how can you
explain it was just this reprogramming program?

But what about just approaching every bangable woman at every reasonable
chance to develop your pickup skills and to get more pussy.  How many men
actually do that, even on this list?

I've just started doing so, and it's had a profound effect on me.  I feel so
much more alive. That every day I'm working to get more pussy.  It
fills you with hope, too! In the same way that not approaching a bangable
woman fills you with despair.

So what maybe we can discuss is people's actual approaches.  Perhaps case
studies.  For there's a lot of abstract discussion here, but is anybody
putting it to practice?

I'll share some of my approaches. I've approached and asked out about
thirteen women in the last three weeks, all in everyday situations, not at
bars or clubs. I've pulled four numbers.  Three of the numbers came from
around my apartment, and one came from a library.

I've found the easiest approach on the street is to ask for directions.
Women seem entirely comfortable when you do this.  Then immediately I've
given them a compliment that makes my interest very clear (such as, "I've
got to tell you, you've got the finest skin of any woman I've ever seen"),
and as they blush, I offer my hand and introduce myself.  Unfortunately, I
haven't pulled a number this way, though I'm not convinced it's the approach
and not the particular women I've approached, many of whom have claimed,
plausibly at the time, a boyfriend.

One place where I wonder if anybody has any ideas is in the grocery store.
I approached a woman and asked her a premeditated question about the
differences between corn oil and vegetable oil (I said I was cooking a
special meal), but because we weren't in the section where they had the
oils, it seemed a little off.  It seems the grocery store is a place where
you're going to want to comment on the situation.  Anyone have any ideas?

And also, I'm new to approaching a woman when she's with her friends. I
wonder how people do this.  And I wonder specifically the language they use.
If we can discuss this here, instead of referring to other sites on the
Web,  I think it would be helpful for all of us.  Because the specific
language we use, even down to whether we call a woman a 'girl', a 'chick', a
'woman' or a 'lady', is very important, I think.

And finally, I think it would be helpful to discuss case studies of dates
and series of dates.  So far it seems everyone is just focussed on the act
of getting a woman's phone number.  But then what?  Do people practicing SS
just say, "Well it was nice to meet you, would you like to come back to my
place and let me stick my meatstick in your fuckhole?" and she says yes
because she's under NLP?  If not, when do people eventually consummate the
relationship? That seems, to my mind at least, the meat and potatoes of
this business of boning brawds.

My Comment:  This list has had a lot of comment over the past few years on
all of the topics you raised, but I am always interested in new ideas and
new points of view.  Certainly SS is a lot more sophisticated in its closing
ideas than what you mention (I suggest you find out more, starting by
visiting their website.  If you want to read some very intelligent seduction
work, order Bishop's Journal from them and I am sure you will be very
impressed).  As far as specific languaging goes, I am open to a point to
putting some of that here but I don't want to duplicate the SS list and
start posting a lot of patterns.


Ned (Commenting on "Albert's instruction, Mystery's response"):
Reminds me of a time recently I went to meet some girl at her house, and she
thought it was a date, so she handed me a big bag of stuff to carry.
Instead of taking it, I gently took her wrist, and said "By your action, it
you assumed I would carry your stuff. But I didn't hear you ask... Your
strike me as being those of a spoiled child, and not those of the mature
woman I thought I was meeting. Forgive the mix-up, I'll be on my way."
and let go of her wrist.
Needless to say, she apologized and we continued flirting, but that was in
the first few seconds.  Of course I did carry her stuff, but she knew I was
giving her the benefit of the doubt :)

To get Albert's instruction to work, we need to rewrite it from the "YOU"
rather than "I" point of view, and put it in the same place in your mind
where you know that, if all the cute chicks got themselves out of the way,
you would see the sun setting in the evening over the Pacific ocean from the
beach in California:
"You are a magnet to beautiful women.
Being a magnet, you do not try to attract,
you attract because it is your very nature.
Cute girls are irresistibly attracted to you.
It is your magnetic nature, to attract more
strongly with age. Girls need you, desire you and
want to make love with you. Wherever you go,
wherever you are, beautiful women
welcome your approach. Beautiful women want to be
with you. Girls find you wonderful, attractive
and desirable in every way.
You easily structure powerful, enjoyable states,
emotions and experiences, and offer these as
an opportunity for those women who are
intelligent enough to follow your lead.
Some beautiful young women in their late teens
and early twenties will meet your high
standards, and you will decide how and when, with
the beautiful young women you allow as
your lovers, you will spend your time."

Mystery's response to Albert is right: the goal is not to control, but
rather to sidestep her control and show her a better way.  A woman by her
very nature wants to follow your lead, to cooperate with you, and the more
you facilitate
the process, the faster she can get what she wants. Within the first minute,
as you begin to lead her imagination, she will 'test/neg' you -- this is a
natural part of her way of increasing her comfort with you, and making sure
your communication is sincere. Maybe you used to notice this as a sort of
'huh?' in the back of your mind, and it caused you miss what she said, while
you began to DOUBT what you were offering, and to HOPE you were doing
OK nevertheless, but NOW you recognize it is as time to reassess the
situation in light of what you have learned from LISTENING to her, about her
character and emotional state, and to increase your certainty,
resolve, persistence, creativity, playfulness (google) and simply take away
what you were offering, and make HER work to get your attention back.
Her test was just to see if she could get all the good stuff for FREE, and
whereas before you kept giving her attention even for bad behaviour
which caused her to feel your attention is of no value, NOW if she is to
keep your attention, she has to work for it, so she feels it is a reward for
her good behaviour.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



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Comments on this product from Tony B.:
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This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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