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Even a loser can do it
Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:44:10 -0500


>> Do any of the men who subscribe to your seduction
>> newsletter get women they love and keep them for
>> a lifetime?

Phrasing it in the plural, the unstated presupposition
is that both these things are mutually exclusive.
Why would I subscribe if I didn't love women? And
as I find the women I love, why would I not keep them?
Eurk, horrible questions! Now I'm coming up with
all sorts of reasons to get rid of the women I love.
It's absurd to think that there's a limit to being
able to feel good, and even more absurd to think
that over a lifetime, there's some limit to how
many women I can share those feelings with.
> Is that what they are looking for...

I'm not actually looking for anything,
at least not in the way you're thinking.
It's an expectation. I expect that
women are going to be attracted to me, and I
look for mutually enjoyable ways to explore
and deepen that attraction, in the limited time
I have available.
> or is it just about the thrill of the chase?

I can see how it can be thrilling for women to
chase me, and some are just addicted to that feeling.
>My Comment: Believe it or not there are married men
> and women on my list who aren't looking for new
> conquests.

I'm a bit concerned about framing all this as a
conquest. Do you conquer your own state before you
go out? Does a successful company conquer
its customers? Isn't it instead about finding ways
to enhance and amplify what's already there, for
mutual benefit?
> Personally, I have always felt that when the
> right woman will come along, I would have
> no choice.

Huh? No choice?
Reminds me of that song:
"If it hadn't been for cotton-eyed Joe,
I'd been a-married long time ago. Where did you come
from, where did you go, where did you come from,
cotton-eyed Joe?"
> Nothing else would appeal, nothing
> else would hold any interest.

Well, I hope that state of mind doesn't last
too long. We still need you to run the list,
for the sake of women everywhere!


(Commenting on: "You are coming from the "dating frame" here and will get
what you expect. By following the traditional dating process, you put sex on
pedestal and hand the controls over to the woman. Wouldn't it be much
better to create states of curiosity, excitement, arousal, etc. and let that
lead to its inevitable conclusion?"):

If the 'inevitable conclusion' is sex, then I'm all for creating these
states. But when and where do you, or others, have that 'inevitable
conclusion' occur?
Specifically, I mean. Concretely.
When and where do you nail them? And how do you get them to that physical
place, whether it's your apartment, her apartment, or the stall in the bar
With all due respect, to me, to say you've just got to create certain states
and everything will lead to the inevitable conclusion from there seems to
evade the issue a little. A lot, actually. And if you, or someone else,
might respond, well if you just let things lead to their inevitable
conclusion, you'll have sex everywhere, anywhere -- if someone responds that
way, I'd say, where, exactly, have you had such sex occur? I remember many
posts ago a guy said he'd got hot and heavy with a brawd in a stall in a bar
but didn't bone her because the smell was so bad, and that he'd got her into
the bathroom just by seizing her hand and leading her away. I thought that
was great. That was a concrete description of one way someone tried to bone
a brawd. Maybe I'm alone here, but I'm really interested in such
I know a few things I've said earlier might have seemed criticisms of SS,
and maybe the tone I took seemed a little hostile, but I really do have
respect for any system of thought that seeks to understand more about how to
communicate with women and how to be prepossessing with women. Someone,
perhaps it was Ross (whom I am still waiting to hear from on the challenge
he proposed), said that any guy could get a number, but that he was still
going to have to talk to the woman in a way she liked, and that's what SS
offered, and I admire that.
But it really just leaves me a little perplexed -- nonplussed, really --
when the advice is given to forget about the 'dating frame'. Because what I
want to do is: nail hot brawds. And the way I understand it to be done,
apart from one-night stands begun at clubs, is to date the hot brawds.
If people on this list are having sexual intercourse with women without
dating them, Lord on high let me know how! But also describe _in depth_, if
you could, concretely, exactly how these encounters pass. You meet her on
the street? You seduce her verbally on the street? And then you take her
immediately to the nearest motel? Or how?
It occurs that possibly with respect to SS I'm so much below the curve that
the actual where and how is not important to SS's practioners, that they're
having sexual intercourse with women in a tremendous variety of places, from
the workplace, to bars and clubs, to fleabag motels. And that they're
having sexual intercourse with five to ten new women each month. If that's
the case, maybe I'm alone here, but goddam would I like to hear about it.


> Brother Angel:
> (Responding to Flyer: "That is precisely why I am against the proverbial
> just wanted to say you're stunning....." opening line which has been
> up a few times in previous editions of this newsletter. Saying this to an
> Good point! It sounds like a lot of people don't know how to use this
> line. When done right, you never, ever, say it to an HB. Use it on a
> 7 or 8. A 9 is risky. A 10 is "No Fuckin' Way!" Also, when used to
> best advantage, you pick a chyck who's a regular at the bar, club,
> store, or whatever, and you use it just before you leave. Then, there's
> possibility that it's a pickup line (she thinks), so the NEXT time you
> her, all her defenses are down. It's a 5-second investment that can pay
> dividends later when you're ready to leave and try someplace else.
> My Comment: I am sure many will react to your opinion with "But I can't
> a girl I think she's stunning unless I really think so, and that means
> 10's." And I have to say that my experience has been that, when that line
> works which is more often than not, it will work on all levels of women.

This line is one of those that people easily have misconceptions about. In
general, it's true to telling women how hot they are is a big mistake.
Every other AFC in the room approaches her, tells her how hot she is, and
tries to impress her.
The key to this line (and from your statement above that you use this line
successfully, I'm sure you would agree) is twofold:
1) The delivery must be low-key. Ross: "A strong message, delivered
low-key, fries circuits in her brain." It must be very a direct, low-key,
relaxed delivery.
2) It must contain a challenge. Ross: "This, by itself, is worthless. The
challenge part that comes next is what makes it a killer line." In other
words, the part where you say, " I had to come and see if there was
more to you than *just* that."
I encourage people to practice the line in this manner and report back with
their results.
And again, if those two points are not followed, don't bother using the
line. You will be a supplicating AFC.


(Commenting to Don:
(What is the best way to get a woman back to your place for the first
romantic date)
Instead of taking her to a fancy romantic restaurant where you'll pay $$$
for a chance of a romp, invite her to your place for a fancy romantic
dinner. (You can cook can't you?) If not, be different and hire a cook for
an hour (after which he makes a quick exit) --- now that's an idea! Not many
woman would have experienced a private cook! Once dinner is over you don't
need to find an excuse: she's already there - ha ha ha! Pump her full of
and frolicy conversation and you're planting seeds in her soil. As we do,
woman too worry about the invite back. For them to accept your offer is a
conscious decision on their part to change the setting from a romantic one
at the restaurant to a sexual one at your place and if she is even somewhat
prissy she may hold off. Start the date with a romantic setting at your
place and there is no conscious decision necessary. Every movement is a
reaction and getting sexual becomes gradual and spontaneous --- and women
love spontaneity. She'd screw your brains out and then wonder in the morning
how it happened so quickly. (Must have been that cute cook!)


In response to Stephanie,
I truly enjoy the thrill of the chase and wish that my gypsy lifestyle would
allow me to get in to a relationship but even before I started travelling I
was learning about seduction and about SS and managed to have some success
with it however it was a means to an end. And the end was screening
(quickly) the women who would not add value to my life and who I would
not have a great relationship with. The result was that I met two wonderful
women and had committed live-in relationships with them. Now they did both
not work out and that was no-one's fault; it just happened. The thrill of
chase is great but nothing can beat a deeply committed loving and sexual
relationship. Nothing. It sure sucks when they end but that time is truly
precious. Love is risk and if you find someone to be happy with then go
for it and be damned with the time period. The minute you stop looking it
will happen.


(Commenting on Mystery:
>How about increasing your learning curve and your familiarity
>with approaching women by increasing the QUANTITY of approaches?
>OPEN with the TANGERINE OPENER (available in The PUA Lounge
> for
>example. It initiates the chat which is what you are supposed to

I wouldn't exactly call it "available" when it's in an area which
is not easily accessible. Not only does somebody need a tiny, limp
(sorry...micro,soft) passport to enter any of the "communities"
but Mystery's community is private and requires membership...AND
to quote from the web page, "Membership in this community is by
invitation only. The manager of the community is not accepting
membership applications."

My Comment:  I have been forwarding the emails to Mystery of anyone who has
expressed interest in joining Mystery's Lounge who contacts me.  I haven't
heard what happens after that, but no one's written back and said that
they'd been refused.


(Commenting on Albert's comments:  "Mystery, you are always welcome to
propose any method you believe will help the guys here. Let me point a
fundamental aspect of communication you seemed to have MISSED somehow: NONE
of us here is the OWNER OF THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
Therefore, wouldn't you agree that you could have presented/offered your
ideas WITHOUT the need to put someone else's ideas down, without engaging in
useless "put-downs" and demeaning phrases? I would venture to say that such
a communication format will be received by all in a much more positive way
and will encourage the birth of even BETTER ideas - - - - We will all learn
how to communicate much more effectively ... And.... we OWE IT TO CLIFF to
disengage from any destructive criticism whatsoever, wouldn't you agree?"):

Yes, you are completely correct. I should take more time in constructing
my replies.  But I don't.  The person I appear to be online is a cut to
the chase guy - in real life I take the time to word things elegantly.
People who have met me know the dif. This is my raw side - the online
"no truths hidden" guy.  Please forgive this and ALL FUTURE stabs.
Instead of going into WHY something is shit (I could rip things apart
analytically and systematically any day) often those are apparent so I
just say "shit post" or something as plainly demeaning. The only person
I aim my stabs at is Ray

(My comment:  Ray is the author of a book on getting women called Outfoxing
the Foxes ( who promotes some bizarre
theories about women and who is an active -- and widely
disliked --contributor to the newsgroup (

(Mystery continues) for all others it's not the man I stab but the
ideas of the man. It's never personal. I'm overall constructive - a
simple look up on archives will show you I offer good info ... AND still
talk with this asshole like voice. I don't say things like "fuck her
hard" in real life either.  It's that valuable anonymity that allows me to
do this. So if we ever meet up I'll buy you a beer (that is payment for
keeping my anonymity haaa). In the meantime, if you continue to have
shit ideas, I'll call you on them still (wonderfully alphamale of me, huh!)

(Albert: "You also missed that what I proposed has NOTHING to do with
seducing women or trying to control them. It has to do with gaining total
control (or as much as possible) of one's own INTERNAL STATES. Therefore,
what you proposed does NOT negate what I proposed. And what I proposed does
NOT negate what you proposed either."):
Mystery: Daphne on the show Fraser didn't want to display sexual signals to
an ex-BF so she wore shitty clothes. Hmm. So if you meet a girl who is
wearing anything SUGGESTIVE you can pretty much conclude she is doing it on
purpose (whether by REASON 'software' or EMOTION 'hardware'). This may
assist us a little in our judgement of a new target (whether she is in heat
and looking for a mate or not) but is more important when meeting the girl
on the second occasion. What is she wearing? Is it sexual or cozy? Did she
give a shit about her appearance? I know that with girls I'm particularly
smitten with, I will doll myself up and take a long time in the bathroom to
do so. But with a girl I don't give a shit about I may decide to not even
shave. And
sometimes ... make her THINK I want her but then find myself not shaving
ANYWAYS. Why? Because deep down I didn't want to pursue the girl. I
found this with Emma. I would pursue her but when I get a yes I trip
myself up because of the fear of possibly losing my ltgf whom I love
tremendously. What have I done to fix this, BTW? Well, I know from past
experiences that I enjoy the adventure of many women so I rationally
choose the dark side evil path (right evil time?!!!) Evil is my nature. I
can't help it. So ... if the girl you meet up with on day 2 (D2) is
dressed like shit, you can tell her, "Don't come too close - I didn't bathe
in 3 days."

(Albert: "We can NEVER overemphasize the fact that getting women should be
made as simple as possible, that men shouldn't make getting women a hard
chore but something fun!!!

And can one have fun with women when one is afraid of them? I doubt
it.- - - - - For some people, studying a better approach, or using X or Y
might work.  Fine. For others, it doesn't work and THEY ARE STILL AFRAID in
spite of the many new things they learned, in spite of all the new
approaches, etc, etc, etc. It's an individual THING. - - - - "):

Mystery: Riiight. you say the solution is to approach 1 a day and rip into
I say (in order to get the results you claim come from your METHOD) is to
approach 12 a day 4 days a week. You are focusing on ONE and I'm focusing on
12. Momentum is the solution, not acute focus on ONE. This is why I once
again say, "shit post." not directed to you bud, just the idea.
It's lame. It's not even a START to 12 a day. Some say you have to start
a long journey with the first step. Others say, in order to break 12
boards you must focus PAST the first board.

(Albert: "My method was presented for those who want to lose FEAR super-fast
and in the simplest, least complicated way. For those who want to use a more
elaborate scheme, feel free to do it. My method is sort of a "SHOCK"
treatment to get rid of any fear of women."):

Mystery: Your method will do nothing. One girl approached a day? All this
will do is freak the guy out for life. See, everyday the counter resets to
  The first 3 girls are ALWAYS the worst. After that you are in snapped
into the right state. Let's put it this way ... Are we RESULTS oriented
people or arbitrary METHOD selecting people? your call bro.

(Albert: "Again, so there is NO misunderstanding, my method is not intended
and it was never intended to seduce women. It is intended to make you lose
fear of women SUPER-FAST. Then you can have fun learning new approaches and
new techniques while FREE from any fear!!! - - - -"):

Mystery:  The fear does NOT go away.  We just learn to HANDLE it. Not til
the 4th girl in the night does the fear go away. If I don't approach a girl
in a few weeks (LTGF reasons) then my counter resets and the first girl I
approach that day will be PAINFUL. Why do I do it? Because I know it will be
fun once I'm IN. I swallow my fear. It will not go away by only burning out
ONE a day. It's like trying to build muscles by lifting a heavy weight only
ONCE a day.
It's a little IDEALISTIC to assume this will work. SIMPLE sure. TOO

(Albert: "And why 'One woman a day"? There is a secret. There is a
reason/secret why I wanted you to do it with "one woman a day". ONLY THOSE
When you do it with just ONE woman, you will feel such a rush of
adrenaline, you will feel free, freer than ever before, you will notice all
this power at your disposal that you were never aware you had. And you will
love it so much you will immediately look for another 'victim'."):

Mystery: Ummm ... no. dude what's your score in the game? I request stats.
This doesn't jive with reality. I've met MANY PUA's in real-life. Shit man
I'm Mystery. Doesn't that mean ANYTHING to you? LOL.

(Albert:  "I don't need to tell you to do it with more than one woman. YOU
will feel this desire to do it again and again. That's why I said to you it
could create a REAL MONSTER unless one strives for balance !!!"):

Mystery: Idealistic propaganda.  Good motive to help people but don't put
them into a lifetime battle without REAL training. 12 approaches a day X 4 a

(Mystery commenting on Ned: Commenting on Dr. Love's "little dilemma":
>Major Mark was discussing on the LA videos how young
women require a
>certain archetype of man to be "the boyfriend" i.e.
good-looking, jerk-type
>social idol. Fair enough he doesn't ultimately
fulfil them - 2 years down the
>line when he'd rather be watching football than be
with her."):

Mystery: NED'S DEAD. NED'S DEAD. He fulfills them for as long as he WANTS
to. Marriage is a ceremonial ritual based in religious doctrine. If it
makes the indoctrinated woman happy and he doesn't mind doing it then
goody for him.

(Ned: "Huh? Women require skills to find, recognize and communicate with the
man who will truly fulfill them. They take time to develop those skills,
some develop them earlier, some later in life and, unfortunately,
some of them never develop them at all. Your mission is to determine quickly
whether she has those skills yet, irrespective of her youth or beauty.
Without them, she simply doesn't qualify. You can go as far as she's capable
of going at the time you meet her, and point her along the right path in the
road if
she's straying up Jerk lane, but ultimately she has to have enough
self-knowledge and maturity to recognize the value in what is being
>My problem is that by the time she wakes up to the
fact that these men
>don't give her what she truly wants she's gone from
being the 19 year old
>sweet cheerleader goddess to being a 26+, jaded,
>woman who the guys that don't meet the social
criteria have to be stuck with.

Mystery commenting on the above: Wow dude. What crap. You are worrying that
the man before you has screwed her up and you don't want to deal with it.
Guess what? You HAVE to. Either that or you can just jerk it because life it
tough sometimes. Girls get hurt. Girls grow hard shells. And you have to
get past it. That is why skin grows thick in areas that need it.

(Ned:  "Since when is it about guys meeting the "social criteria"?? If a
girl shows by her actions that she is able to meet your criteria, you MIGHT
be interested.  You quickly loose interest in the ones who think their
behaviour has no consequences, the ones that believe they can treat people
poorly just because of how they look and the ones that believe they somehow
deserve special favors. It's hardly your problem that she made stupid
choices in the past. It's only your problem if you can't step out of her way
fast enough when
she finally wakes up and makes a grab for you! The reason these HB-Jerk
relationships last so long is that the HB hopes she'll be able to change the
jerk into a nice guy. A bit like alchemy, she believes the secret is out
there. The jerk tries to change, and maybe even makes promises, but always
falls back into his old ways, even getting worse. He balances her between
hoping he will change, and doubting he loves her enough. See the

Mystery: Haaa you just described the relationship with my LTGF LOL!

(Ned: What have I missed in this scenario? (I think MY current jadedness
>with human behaviour in general is permeating into
my view on women and
>I wouldn't mind being kicked back into line).

Mystery:  My question is: how much are you getting laid?

(Ned: You didn't miss anything. It was a perfectly rational
explanation for you to allow yourself to stay put, unchanged, stuck.
Remember that if you ask your unconscious mind how or why things are not as
you want, it comes up with lots of reasons to keep you happy. Ask different
questions: Why is it that cute cheerleaders are discovering that I am
attractive? How could it be that now they are becoming incredibly aroused by
my words?Being jaded involves accepting the current situation. After you
change your frame of mind, and realize that your thoughts create your
reality, then you'll be ready to lead chicks into that reality with you.):

Mystery: The guy is shooting himself in the foot. AND I wager he is NOT
getting laid. People who haven't gotten laid in a while construct FUCKED UP
REASONS why it's not THEIR FAULT. Of course - it's the WOMEN'S FAULT. Haaaa.
I've seen this so many times in AFC's it boggles. When I realized it was I
who had to do the changing (from AFC to PUA) I was back in the control seat.
>Essentially, I think the number one method for
>the best babes is to be a social climber
>(hang with the cool people, go to all the right
places), keep with the
>fashion (but be slightly creative to keep from
appearing like a sheep),
>do fashionable things, and enforce your superiority
over others
>within this context.
>(Which woman would rather bang the appy than bang
the leader?)

Mystery:  Sounds reasonable until you realize all that is an illusion. You
and I
enter a club with equal footing. I convey social proof by hanging with
girls (previous approaches are seen by later approaches). I convey
hanging with cool people by my photo routine (pix of me with famous and
beautiful people). I wear good clothes. I have fun, I'm seen as social.
I AM the LEADER. See? It's all conveyed in the club. Even a loser can
do it. It just takes skill and preparation. You don't have to BE RICH to
APPEAR RICH. You'd be surprised how little you have to say or do to
convey ANYTHING. You don't have to be on the rise of some invisible
social ladder. That ladder doesn't EXIST. You can APPEAR on any rung of
the ladder you choose - it's only a performance to a girl in a club. In
the same amount of time you and I perform very differently - create
dif images.  Certain images get you laid and others don't. Craig isn't
rich but he sure looks together. And so do I. Am I? Hell no, I'm a
fucking LOON! But I appear to be a catch. Put your best foot forward
and get laid. Then to other girls who see you with the girl you will
appear even MORE together. I have a beautiful GF. I'm way more together
because of her in my life. Others envy me for it. Interesting concept:
fake it til you make it.
>I'm wondering if you give this "method" because it is something
>you think you can't do yet, or that you must do, before you'll be "good
>enough" to get the cute chicks? It might be just one more self-imposed
>obstacle, when in reality there's nothing in the way of you going out
now >to get the girls you desire.

Mystery:  Exactly.  Dude puts obstacles in front of himself to excuse WHY he
isn't getting laid. Why he doesn't have 1 or more GF's. Cut the shit and
playing the game. Your REASONING is getting in the way of the results
you desire. What to do? Shut the fuck up. Get out and EXPERIENCE the
way the real field works cause right now unless you have 50 or more
girls under your belt, you don't have the experience to accurately devise
a mental model of the terrain.

Mystery  to Flyer:  I've been to Russia. Clear and simple it's better than
Weird, eh? They are fish in a barrel there. If you are foreign especially.
You'll seriously shit. If Toronto is a 3.5 and LA is an 8 (Ft. Lauderdale is
a 7) then Russia is a 9.5.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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