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"It’s about HOW TO GET HAPPY"

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Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:17:26 -0500


I received an email request to be removed which claimed to be the 19th time
this person emailed me asking to be removed!  Of course it was the first
time I had gotten any of those emails and I removed him immediately.  But it
seems clear that I am not getting all of the emails sent to
cli***[email protected]***.com[ ? ], so please also send to cli***[email protected]***.com[ ? ].


Flyer sent in the URL for a very interesting looking website:   If anyone has bought this and would be kind
enough to provide some comments, we'd like to hear them.


One often ignored area of seduction is attitudes during and after sex.  I
think many people are serious when they should be laughing and having fun,
and others are unresponsible when they need to be responsible.  There are
certain areas that I think a woman wants to see responsibility.  These
include respecting her privacy (don't shout out to the world I fucked her
like the cheap ho that she is), safe sex (birth control, STDS), and other
areas important to the person you are with.
Beyond that, sex shouldn't be solemn.  It should be fun.  You're allowed to
laugh and joke.  Here are some examples of how I've done that.
Once, I was with a friend and I commented on how well her butt fit into my
hand like it was made for my hand.  In fact, I think there should be a hand
print on each cheek.  She told me I could draw one on each cheek.  I got out
a nontoxic permanent marker and traced my hands on her butt cheeks.  Then, I
told her that for the next week every time she gets undressed she is going
smile and laugh (just a friendly suggestion from a friendly hypnotist).
Shortly after one friend turned 30 I had my face in front of a friend's
and I said "I think I found some grey hair."  Another time, with the same
friend I told her that her vaginal skin was starting to get wrinkled and old
looking.  You should use some Retinol A cream I told her.  Then, I laughed
and said "I can imagine you on the phone with your girlfriend tomorrow
Joanna do you use Retinol cream.  What do you do.
My friend knew that I was joking and laughed.
One thing that I almost never do is make fun of actual physical traits,
especially traits that they can't control (i.e. don't tell a woman that she
a carpenter's dream because she is flat as a board).


On one of the SS videos, Major Mark talks about the image of the bad boy.
The renegade rogue.  The romantic hero.  ...The whole concept stirs my
interest and is one that I would like to see get more play in our
discussions.  It seems to be incredibly revealing, so I raise it now in
hopes that we can explore it further here and perhaps gain some more
Way beyond the idea of the non-AFC and the outright jerk getting all the
women is the idea of the romantic hero.  The very notion itself seems to be
the dreamy figment of a woman's fantasies -- a deeply ingrained metaphor
that recurs in female stories, from fairy tales to soap operas to romance
novels -- an ideal held in the deepest recesses of her mind which, if
properly leveraged or tapped, could be a magic key for the seducer.  The
Major discusses this when he references Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women:
Romance Writers on the Appeal of the Romance -- the book that cracks the
code of that genre.
I tore into it right away, along with some others that it led me to,
including Bad Boys: Why We Love Them, How to Live With Them, and When to
Leave Them ...and another out-of-print one called Endless Rapture: Rape,
Romance and the Female Imagination ...and then even an actual romance novel
(a trilogy called The Erotic Adventures of Sleeping Beauty, the second
volume of which is called Beauty's Punishment) -- this purchase inspired by
a MAXIM article titled Submit! in which Internet babe Danni Ashe said, "I
start reading it and by the time I get to the third page, I HAVE to have sex
right then and there."  By the way, Dangerous Men is definitely the foremost
source and by far the most worthwhile of these.
All this inquiry makes me think we are really onto something with this
romantic hero thing.  It has led me to seek to incorporate more of the
defining traits into my own persona.  But as a pretty good guy for the most
part, I find that to be a bit difficult  ...even though I do think there is
a definite distinction -- with the bad boy being a particular type of
romantic hero, which is the larger, all-encompassing concept.
Anyway, I am not sure how to make all of the traits tangible or how to
convey them effectively to a woman.  With a look?  With an attitude?  With
languaging?  With sex toys?  With behavior?  With physical force?  (OK, we
know that one isn't right, so no threads needed on how wrong it is to even
ask.)  The point is that it seems like it has to go beyond mere
attitude/frame.  I am certain this is powerful stuff if we can harness it.
Has anyone done any development work in this area that directly resulted in
outrageous success in seduction -- where you have been able to not only
embody and manifest bad boy attributes, but more importantly convey
concretely to women that you are indeed the romantic hero they fantasize
about?  I should revisit the tape because I know Mark takes us through such
a process -- one that trances you out, that's for sure.  But I would enjoy
learning more from this audience on this topic as well, if anyone has any


Chris (cramias):
>Because consider this:  what's the ratio, do you think, just for yourself,
>of the number of mates you've laid eyes on and wanted, and the number of
>mates you've laid eyes on and wanted _and_ drilled?  Wrist-slittingly
>So goddam I would argue that sex "is" fucking scarce.  And even if you
>happen to be getting a lot of it (which, for people on this list, I have
>doubts, with all due respect, because what would motivate someone to seek
>this info if they were already contented w/r/t sex), it still, on a
>level, in proportion to other animals, is scarce.

Just wanted to comment on this.  I do agree with you to some degree, in that
its not possible in our society to grab a woman by the hand and with out
saying a word engage in animalistic rutting (yum!).  You could say that
because of this fact sex could be perceived as scarce or hard to get.
However, I think it is pretty self-defeating to believe that.  On the
Unstoppable Confidence tapes, and in his first newsletter, Ross says one of
the best attitudes you can have is the belief that "being with me is the
best possible choice a woman can make."  He goes on to say, " Can you prove
that? No! We're not talking about the objective "truth," we talking about a
PERCEIVED POSITION to come from that will increase your power and confidence
with women." (Ross, forgive me if I'm mangling your words, I'm quoting from
memory)  To relate that back to the topic at hand:   While the objective
truth might be that you have some work to do to get sex, and you might not
get it every time, allowing that truth to make you perceive sex as scarce
will not help you.  People who perceive something as scarce often come off
as needy or desperate to get their hands on that scarce item.  Any woman
will tell you that a guy who comes off as desperate or needy is a big turn
off.  Think about it.  Remember, I'm not talking about the objective
reality, I'm talking about perceptions of that reality that will allow you
to come from a position of power.


> D.S.:
> had actually success using  Speed Seduction», i.e., whether anyone
every met
> anybody in the bright of day and, without the aid of alcohol or
> nailed the brawd.  And you respond by saying you once had sexual
> with a woman after the two of you were watching a movie on your TV?
> about that encounter was Speed Seduction»?

If you understood the nature of Speed Seduction», it would be obvious.
I understand why Riker gets frustrated at guys on the SS list who
want the "exact words." Speed seduction» is not about the exact words,
it's about using language to capture and lead a woman's imagination.
In the situation I had mentioned, we were hanging out at her place,
waiting for our mutual friend. Her TV was on, and music videos were
playing. I started talking about songs, and how they affect us.
(Anchors anyone?) Anyway, I'm playing with her, not really thinking
about going anywhere with it, since we were waiting for someone,
but I was getting a green I kissed her. Is that rocket
> Halbster:
> Maxin's response was good.  I just wanted to add that the original
> needs to change his perception.  He is writing about banging hot
> I've never banged anyone in my life, especially a "brawd".  However,
I have
> met many hot women who I've shared wonderful sexual experiences with.


Which is one of the reasons why D.S. believes that "getting  sex _is_
fucking 'rocket science'" and it seems to me that he believes that
so strongly, that his subconscious is being 'helpful' by making that
belief a reality...for him. I think the first big step, before he
spews patterns like a bulimic, is to learn to get out of his own way.
Until then, his success will be severely limited.
Luke: I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you fail.


Jeff wrote about challenges with getting college babes phone numbers: How
about somewhere after the initial conversation talk about one of the
favorite university teams. Since you both attend the same university use
this to gain rapport with her. (As per Cialdini) two people who share
something in common develop rapport more quickly. Furthermore, ask her if
she would like to attend the next game together. And word it as "We

"Sex is scarce": I am here not because I cant get ANY but because I am not
getting ENOUGH from the ones I want, I'm looking for an edge. There is a
much stronger case against your theory; such as sex must not be scarce
because we are overpopulating the world!


Big T:
A message to DS: (re: sex is scarce and not rocket science):
Well it is pretty evident that getting laid IS rocket science cause none
of us guys wouldn't need this list or anything that resembles
it....unless you're Brad Pitt, Ricky Martin or anyone in the spotlight,
getting laid for guys like that all they have to do is step out their
front door but, for the average joe you have to have a strategy
otherwise if you want it (poontang) fast without any hassle then pay a wine, dine, flowers or bullshit just the negotiated price
and there's no strings attached. If you are the average joe (AFC) then
you're going to have to pay for it no matter how you slice it then there's
trusty 'ol....SPEED SEDUCTION»...end of story!


Commenting on: Mystery (Commenting on "Talking might or might not distract
you from shitty states, but I'd like to go WAY beyond that into the kind of
positive, fantastic states that are possible for humans to feel. I think
it's not enough to just "not be in a bad mood" -- what's more important and
ever so much more fascinating is to live at the far edge of the wondrous
feelings you can stand to have."):

This is entirely mumbo jumbo. Evolution has 'designed' our emotions. They
are very important to our survival. EVERY emotion motivates our behavior
for the betterment of the host. Instead of trying to be 'happy' all the
time, trust that emotions serve to motivate you in the most productive ways.
Don't MISREAD them, of course, but don't try to IGNORE them by always being
'happy'. Your job is to get the girl to like you whether you like yourself
or not. Whether you are happy or not you still have to make her like you.
(The plus being that once you have here liking you, you BECOME happy.) Feel
like shit ... just get out and talk talk talk. You think a performing
artist on a bad day takes it out on his audience? Emotions are dynamic.
Trying to abstain from any other emotion other than 'happy' is to deny your
humanity. Besides, girls can tell a phony smile a mile away. Stay on
topic. It's not about HOW TO ALWAYS FEEL HAPPY. It's about HOW TO GET HAPPY

(Commenting on: "Just talking yourself out of bad states wouldn't do that,
of course. What if you were to ask yourself, If I could feel the most
fantastic feelings a human being can ever feel, what would I feel? What
would I choose to feel? How would I feel it? How would I know that I feel
it? Precision, my friend.. precision."):



Wow, Mystery, what a refreshing mindset! I'm getting tired of all
these people on the SS list, and a buddy of mine, who constantly stresses
"feeling states" and all this internal bullshit more than actually going out
and trying to get results. And if you are writing a book, I'm buying it.
But it is interesting to hear this from a PUA as successful as yourself.
Ross and Bishop are always saying: "GO THERE FIRST, and the only way for her
to feel good internally is for you to feel wonderful internally." Don't you
agree with that? And don't you agree with NLP techniques that if you
constantly rehearse a state with visualizations, feelings, and anchors, then
you can develop that state in yourself? Or do you think it's all wishful,
wimpy-thinking, hogwash? And do you ever consciously ANCHOR states to women?
I never see you talk about that. I also like how you say that patterns are
just playful routines. I think that's a much better way to look at them than
thinking: "You HAVE to get in that state for her to get into that state."
That just creates seriousness and unneeded effort when you "try and attain
the state".
All that I've read from you is your one-liners. I would like to know ALL
your routines: The Elvis script, the Tangerine opener - everything. If you
could give me some info on how I can find them out, please let me know.
Right now, you are my modeling guru.


First, wanted to note that I tried the making a romantic dinner at home --
and it yielded the ultimate result.  In fact, she showed up bearing a bottle
of wine.  So thanks much for the recommendation, Maxin.  This is going to be
my m.o. henceforth.  As a note to others, I'm not an especially expert cook,
but with a little thinking, I think anyone can pull it off.  For instance, I
made a pasta meal, which is easy cause it's just noodles, then the browning
of meat and pouring in of the sauce (which is good because it looks like
you're fucking cooking! when actually you're just _preparing_!), and then
you can get that refrigerated dough to make fresh break, which actually
seems like you're baking bread.  and then a salad, which you can do easily
by breaking apart romaine and chopping up an onion and throwing in some
dressing.  And of course the small but important touches, like a white cloth
tablecloth and nice wine classes (which should cost no less than $20 for two
pairs).  I mention the specific ingredients of what I made not to give a
cooking lesson, but just to point out that just about anybody could pull
cooking a romantic dinner off.  Probably, like me previously, a lot of guys
unconsciously dismiss the idea because they think they 'can't cook,' but
really if you _want_ to do it, it's not too hard.  Maxin said he's six for
six.  I'm one for one now, and I'll make a note the next time I use it, and
if anybody else thinks it's a good idea and tries, maybe let's hear from
On a side note, I thought of a verbally deft low card one can give to a 10.
say to her, "Obviously you're cursed with being extremely good-looking, but
you seem to have a real refreshing personality, etc. . . ."  this I think
will bypass the 10's circuits because the meaning of it is really
On one hand, you're saying she's extremely good-looking (a compliment), but
on the other you're saying she's cursed by it.  Probably a 10 would be so
surprised by it and her curiosity so piqued, that she'd ask you what you
mean.  And you could give out some already-thought-about shit like it must
be hard to have people judge you just on the way you look, that because
you're extremely good-looking (maybe even say 'abnormally' good-looking),
people will think about you in a certain way, like you're dumb, etc.
The end result of this low card just might be to have the 10 start wondering
if it's possible her fantastic looks aren't a good thing but perhaps a bad
thing.  And if she starts wondering about this, possibly she'll look to
_you_ for some type of approval to compensate for these doubts that have
suddenly befallen her.  And if she looks to you for approval, maybe you can
approve her all the way into bed.


>  TGB 2x333:
>  Commenting on: Steph:
>  >I will never get past the chase and actually take
>  >the plunge into real intimacy. I live for the chase.
>  What exactly is it you're chasing?

I have no clue what I am chasing, which is why I am finding nothing!  When I
figure that part out, chasing might become a whole lot easier!

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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