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"Ross Comments on Mystery dissecting Sisonpyh"

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Ross Comments on Mystery dissecting Sisonpyh
Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:10:27 -0500


>Make no mistake about it. if you're interested in
>the hottest women, you'd better realize right now that these things make a
>difference.  You don't have to work out 10x a week, but get your body in at
>least OK shape. You don't have to have perfect teeth, but make sure that
>they're clean and that your breath is great. Learn what nice shoes are, and
>how to keep them nice. Figure out how colors and clothing go together and
>what is cool.  It's worth it. I wasn't 'cool' when I started, now I've
>how to be. Huge difference. (Am I saying that you can't get laid if you
>wear Nike's and have fucked up hair? No. But remember, a blind pig can find
>an occasional truffle.)

Guys will be surprised to hear me AGREE with this.  These things
alone don't get you hot women, but not doing them DOES get in the
way. So do them. I just don't talk about them much because almost
everyone gives this advice, so what does someone need me for to tell
them? But I agree.
>Mystery: "Well Groomed" is a must for all PUAs.  AND ... you'd be surprised
>how many guys fuck this rule up.  Ask yourself, "Had I shaved the last time
>I went out?  Had I shined my leather shoes?  Had I put on deodorant and
>whore lure?"

Not only that, but I like to wear my Green Lantern ring which I had
custom made. Why? Because LOTS of chicks ask about the symbol;
especially those into the occult. One (ONE) interesting and UNUSUAL
piece of jewelry helps get attention.
>. The
>lines didn't much matter, as long as they fit in with the character. Now
>that I
>have created this CHARACTER for women, things are all different. Women now
>call me. They pursue me. They want to be around me. It's fucking strange
>magical and weird.
>Mystery: This is EXACTLY what I had done as well as have suggested to my
>wings here.  I took it to the next level and got in comedy stages doing
>short acts.  If you can attract an audience, you can attract 1 girl (or her

Yes, as a former comedy writer, I can tell you CHARACTER is
everything. Otherwise, you're just telling jokes.  I like to model
myself on Groucho, Bugs Bunny and Pepe Lepew!
>Sisonpyh: So what's the character that they want? Good question.
>I have a good friend who's the best I've ever seen at picking up women in
>bars and having sex with them that night. Now, I do better getting numbers
>and closing the deal later. But this guy just kicks ass. And his whole
>mindset towards meeting women is to be "Cocky and funny" (his words). My
>opinion is that women are turned off by arrogant men. UNLESS. they're DAMN

Hanging out with my hot, intrigued, MARRIED Yoga teacher, she said to
me, "I don't think you're arrogant. I think you're COCKY! Arrogant
men don't have a sense of humor and YOU are funny as hell."

This was just yesterday. She then proceeded to tell me about her 3 top
sexual fantasies she'd fuck in a heartbeat even though she is
married. I of course noted the submodality locations of the top one!
>This magic combination will attract women like this list
>attracts guys who don't get laid. I'm following in my buddy's footsteps.
>I'll try to summarize my character for you: "I know that this chick is
>secretly trying to pick up on me. I'm going to play hard to get, make fun
>her, be indifferent towards her, and generally bust her balls as much as
>possible. I know that she loves a guy that is so sarcastic that it makes
>nervous, so I'm going to really keep the heat on. and when she starts to
>show any interest at all on the outside, I'm going to blow her off
>and make her prove to me that she wants me. so I can reject her again."

I like this "tease to please" attitude.  "Why are you staring at my
package?"  or "Did you just fart?" I like to go back and forth
between showing DEEP insight into who they are, MUCH deeper than any
guy they've ever met...showing I TRULY understand their hopes and
dreams....and then, the next minute, being totally a "brat" as they
would say.   Great bit of fractionation.  Those who can't take the
teasing get eliminated.

It's important to set this up the right way. If you give them the
deep insights they really want taking it away by being
flippant drives them NUTS.
>Mystery: I highly endorse this advice.  I do this and I believe it is THIS
>that helps my game.
>Sisonpyh:  I do crazy shit like if I'm standing next to a girl at a bar,
>I'll turn to her and say in a completely serious voice "Will you PLEASE
>touching me?"   And then look them right in the eye.
>Mystery: Good stuff. Ill try this out and tell you about my results.  It is
>good for 1:1 though not valuable for social proofing in groupsets (where
>are primarily found).

Mystery: Do you ever use a "pivot"?   My married Yoga teacher often
goes out alone because her hubby is a pilot and is out flying, so
we're going to start hanging out.  Bringing a hot chick would seem to
be the best social proof possible, plus you are teasing HER with all
of her flirting.  (My yoga teacher has watched me pick up chicks and
LOVES it.  She says she LIKES the fact that I am "a guy" and don't
make excuses for it!)
>Sisonpyh: Or say "What are you doing at a bar for godsakes? Can't you find
>a nice normal guy? Or are you desperate?" All with a completely
>straight face.
>I say things that make them actually think that I'm serious, but
>leave a shadow of a doubt.

I love this...I'd let a small. SLIGHT smile play across my face
when I'm done so she gets SOME idea I'm kidding, but very, VERY good.
>Here's what I'm looking for: If they respond in an insecure way and say
>I'm sorry. I didn't know that I was touching you" I'll keep it going. and
>say "Well, you did. And if you're going to keep doing it, I'd appreciate it
>if you'd touch a little higher." They crack up.
>If they shoot something funny back like "Well, touchy touchy" and they know
>that I'm kidding, I just stay in character and say "Yes, I don't like being
>touched. So keep a foot or so between us please" and keep it going.
>And yes, sometimes (not often) I'll meet a bitch and she'll get uptight. I
>just walk away.
>If you're going to do this, you have to remember to keep it going for the
>entire time. don't turn into a dumb ass at the first sign of her liking
>I keep up this shit until a chick is in my bed and naked. asking me to have
>sex with her. and I say "No, I don't think so. You don't sound like you
>really mean it." I'm not kidding. At all.

Ha ha....I do like clit-teasing.  Dude, you are on the money! So
much so that I'd like to invite you to attend my next SS seminar
FREE, as my guest of honor!  No shit!   Just email me for details! are invited as well, damnit! Really, I'd love to meet you
>Mystery: Again, perfect advice.  What is your score in the game out of
>One more quick thing on chicks. I've learned that some women don't really
>respond well to having their balls busted. These women are usually not as
>intelligent, and like to think that they 'deserve to be treated better.'

Jeez, I've met these fooking princesses.   They expect you to chase
them too....they'll cancel at the last minute with what I call "a
Princess and the pea" excuse...."Oh, I'm SOOO tired. I had SUUUUUCH a
long day. I'm SOOOOO busy; I just need some time alone."   Fuck 'em.
>Interesting combination. If you have one of these on your hands, you can go
>ahead and treat her well, but you're going to find sooner or later that
>LIKELY (not always) she's going to be a pain in the ass and try to own you.
>Sisonpyh: Others include "Do you think that men understand what women
>really want and need?"
>Mystery: Good, but consider rephrasing so its not a close ended question.
>YES and NO answers bite.

One of my favorites; you get to hear their gripes AND their fantasies!
>I've really explained how I make them fascinated with me above.
>by being cocky and funny at the same time. and busting their balls

Yes...add in showing some deeper level curiousity than most guys and
then bat them back and forth between the two, along with some nice
"Kino" as the PUA's would call it!
>But another important distinction that I've made is to never be
>too happy. Women are intrigued when you stay very calm, almost unaffected.
>The real hotties are used to having men get nervous when talking to them,
>and they can sense that you're different when you stay very cool, and
>talk to them. NEVER let them sense that you're interested. (By the way, all
>these rules are different if you're trying to get married. this stuff is
>getting LAID).
>Mystery: Interesting insights on not getting too happy.  I convey
>but it comes from what I have to say rather than my talking to them.  Also,
>I believe that creating FASCINATION is not the result you want.  What I
>strive for is ADMIRATION (very similar to ENVY).  If you can get her
>admiring you for things you've done or had happen to you and they wish THEY
>had similar experiences then you are MONEY.

Well, never be too happy about HER, but I am DEFINITELY happy about
me, what I am doing and my life. I'm not going to be all mopey-mope
just to get some chyck. EVER. I know, some chicks like to mother and
rescue depressed guys, but that isn't what you are suggesting from
what I can see.
>I've now stopped going for numbers. instead I get email addresses. Let me
>explain. I perfected the art of getting phone numbers a couple of years
>If a woman is single, I can walk up to her and get her number in under 90
>seconds. I found out later, after working like a mad scientist on this that
>numbers don't = Laid. Can I have an Amen again, my brothers who know what
>I'm talking about?

I agree about the phone number thing, in part. But I've found email
alone can be a problem.

Here is why:
1. Lots of women do NOT check email regularly. Some  have a free
account they look at once every two weeks or so. By then, the moment
and momentum are gone. Trust me; I've learned this from cold, hard
2. Chicks with accounts OFTEN don't get their email.
Hotmail is NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. I don't wish to turn this into a
tech-weenie discussion but HOTMAIL SUCKS.
>Mystery: Yep.  A # is merely an OPTION.  There is still blurring to contend
>Sisonpyh: OK, so here's what I do now.
>After I've talked to a chick for about 3 or 4 minutes, I'll often say
>something like "Well, it was nice meeting you. I'm going to get back to my
>friends." They usually don't know what to do, as they're used to guys
>clinging. Then, just as I'm turning to walk away. and we kind of
>I turn back and say "Do you have email?"
>Mystery: Get both.  With the # comes the symbol of HER interest in you.
>AFTER you get the #, THEN get the email addy too.  Getting an email is not
>positive indicator of her interest in you so much as her #.  Of course you
>will email her first but you also have her # so you can play checkers
>together on excite and then call her at the same time (if she has cable or
>2nd line).

This all depends on how deeply I've got her interested.  I'll
do my best to get the phone # and then as an aside, afterwards, go,
"Oh...if you have email too, let me have it. I've got a story I've
been working on and I'd like your opinion on it."
>Sisonpyh: If they say yes, I take out a pen and paper and have them write
>it down. (This is great, as I just treat the 'yes' that they give me as a
>yes to get it from them as well. And they've ALL gone along with it so far)
>Then I say "Write your number down there too." I won't go into all of it,
>but this move is a powerhouse. When you ask for email, it's very low risk

I do the reverse: phone THEN email.
>Mystery: I hear what you're saying.  Thing is, while asking for the # is
>going to get great results, LEADING her to give her # and then ALSO getting
>her email is the thing to do.  "This was very good.  It's unfortunate we
>have a time constraint as I've got to get going.  What steps must we take
>continue this?"

I'm with Mys on this. based on experience.
>Sisonpyh:  so they think "Fine, I'll do that". and then when they're
>writing, I get the phone number too. which is more natural.
>If they say "no", and that they don't have email, then I bust their balls
>and say "Well, do you have electricity?" Then I say "Well, OK then.
>I like email better, but I'll take your regular phone number. it's so damn
>hard to reach people on the phone these days." I hope you get what just
>happened. OK, then, as they're writing I say "Is this a number that you
>actually answer?"

I like that part. But you know, WAY before I get to this point I've
set it up that my time is scarce and that getting to talk again won't
be an easy thing so the it's important that when the chance to talk
presents itself she takes it.  And based on the message I leave my
results are MUCH better.

Let me share the FIRST message I almost always leave nowadays:
Hi,'s was interesting talking to you.....I
don't know if you're adventurous or forward looking enough to
discover what YOU MIGHT BE MISSING...but if YOU ARE...why don't you give me
a call back...see if you can catch me?"

This is a good challenge to her self-image......implies she's
missing SOMETHING but doesn't say what, leaving her to wonder and
find her OWN answer that seems to fit for her (and positions ME as the
one who can fill it in for her) vague about "see if you can
catch me"....catch me at home to talk? Or catch me as a man/boyfriend
>Mystery: Right. You are using the ASSUME THE SELL concept.  I have used
>countless times and yet have better results with LEADING THE CLOSE.  Never
>ASK for the #.  Just LEAD her to suggest it to you.  Email is still too
>wishy washy (as an indicator of interest).  Usually the job of attracting
>her is done on the first meeting and is not spread to the phone call (you
>don't want to have to TRY and convince her to see you on the phone).  I
>admit that
>email (or rather realtime chat) is good at conveying trust and such, I
>think you can do this better LIVE.  See where I'm coming from?
>Sisonpyh: If not, then I say "Look, write your real number down. it's
>going to be OK, I'll only call you nine times a day." They laugh, and give
>me their real number.

Yeah.....sometimes they ask if I have a card. My answer ALWAYS is,
"Yes, but I rarely give them out these days. I've learned for most
people, I card is just a souvenir of a happy memory. And I don't
like to support people's bad habits that lead them to missing out.  I
only give cards to people who can look me in the eye and tell me the
card is ticket to a new adventure."  I then hold out the card, and
raise my eyebrows. Depending on her non-verbal response, I'll put it
away or let her take it.
>Mystery: This is hammering THROUGH the shield instead of going UNDER it.
>Mystery just wrote some genius level stuff about this recently, which
>has me thinking. but here's what I've used so far.
>First of all, my mindset. I have decided that I need about 20-30 minutes to
>get to know a woman before I decide that I'd like to spend enough time with
>her to get laid. I actually like women who I enjoy, and who I'd enjoy
>for more than just one bang session. So I like to meet them for a cup of
>and talk for a bit, or even let that lead to a bite to eat sometimes. So my
>mindset is that I'M THERE TO QUALIFY THEM. Not the other way

I agree. But here's some more on qualifying:
1. How do they respond to being touched? Do they go, "Oh my god..that
feels SO good and melt into it?"  Do the enjoy it but not let themselves
totally go? Do they have no response or a neg response?
2. How do they respond to simple commands?  "Let's sit here."  "Put
your hands on the table....and look at me".
3. Are they suggestible and do they attend to what I am saying
instead of being off in their head processing something else?
4. Do they have a fun spirit or are the drama whores?
5. Manners? Do they say thank you or please to people around them?
>Mystery: I don't qualify
>them over COFFEE (Coffee - sitting at a cafe - is AFC bigtime)

Mys...with all due props to you....I believe you've got MAJOR
game.....I disagree. Coffee is my #1 aphrodisiac bevvy.  As long as
it isn't framed as a "date" it works just fine.....
>Mystery: Hmm, ok.  I do Kino and if the response is bad, I punish the
>with my negative body language» and silence for a few moments (which is one
>type of neg - I use others too).  Without telling her you are training her
>to do things that please you.  If she fails, she quickly realises you don't
>treat her with respect and make her feel good.  NOT kinoing on her is
>powerful but only once you HAVE and then STOPPED.

Her response may be "bad" because she just doesn't enjoy her body or
being touched at all. In which case, I don't need to "punish"
her...she's punishing herself enough.
>Mystery: H  Instead, YOU
>demonstrate your ability to take control by offering her opportunities to
>get together.  "I need to pick up something at the mall.  I'm going to
>by and pick you up so you can keep me company.  If you have anything that
>needs to be done then we can share our chores."  This is SO MUCH better for
>obvious reasons.  This cup of coffee thing is done SO FUCKING OFTEN (asked
>of the girl by all the other guys in the past) that with it comes baggage
>... memories of boring chats with people they didn't know.

I agree and disagree. I like the swing by and get you thing...I'll
KEEP IT "CASUAL" OR AT LEAST APPEAR SO.  But Mys...the cup of coffee thing
for me ALWAYS works, because I set up from my initial conversation that
their are AMAZING things that they can learn from me.
>Mystery: Again, assuming the sell.  Your results will increase dramatically
>if you give them an event option on the close (then you have a REASON to
>close them).  Email is good no doubt but it stretches out the time from
>to meet again from NEXT DAY to a WEEK.

Or LONGER. As I said, lots of chicks have free email through their
school,or much worse, HOTMAIL.COM, which should be wiped from the
Internet IMHO.  These gals don't check their email for weeks at a
time.  Where does that leave you?
>Sisonpyh: "Now, let me ask you this. what
>are the chances that you're going to not show up tomorrow?
>answer> Because one of my pet peeves is people that are late or flaky. I
>deal with a lot of things, but I'm always on time and where I say I'm going
>be, and I never have an excuse or don't show up. so I just wanted to make
>sure. because if there's one thing that could end our friendship before it
>starts, it's flakiness."  This sets the right tone for flaking, as you can
>see. it gives them a self-image to live up to.
>Next, when we're getting ready to hang up, I say something like "Great,
>going to be nice to get to know you better. And if nothing else, we can
>It's taken me and a good friend of mine a long time to get this piece. From
>here on out, I constantly drop hints about just 'being friends' and how I
>really 'like her as a friend' and how 'it's nice to meet someone that I
>as a friend.'
>Mystery: Interesting point - I guess you first look for whether or not it's
>good to use or not.
>Sisonpyh:  Hear me on this one. this fucks them up soooooo hard that they
>literally don't know what to do. This is most likely the first time IN
>THEIR ENTIRE LIFE that this has happened to them. And it continually
>triggers their insecurity and makes them wonder why they're not attractive
>enough to you. It also disarms them completely. (You have to really have
>mindset that you are qualifying them, and that they're going to be your
>for this to work.)

It works on another level; it takes away THEIR major automated
defensive response: "Let's just be friends".
You've stepped on THEIR line and now THEY can't use they
are confused.
Here's an analogy to explain why this works.  Have you ever watched a
TV soap opera that was filmed live? Ever see one actor MISTAKENLY say
the OTHER actor's lines?  He leaves his other actor totally stumped
as to where to go and what to say!
cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

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Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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