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"Her Hollywood-wanna-be-fantasies"

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Her Hollywood-wanna-be-fantasies
Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:55:54 -0500


Dr. Robert Jacobs site promotes some interesting
products.  If anyone gets them, how about a review?  He also sells what is
supposed to be the same as Psycho Power at (I am still waiting for someone to review PP
for me).  One of them is a book at and how to get women
through hypnosis at WWW.SEXHYPNOSIS.COM.


Let me ask EVERYONE reading this: what kind of women are you aiming yourself
at, and what does this imply about what you guys view the job of seduction
is all about?

One View of the Job

As I see it, there are those women who are highly sexual and into banging
pretty quickly. And with them, being a seductionist isn't about convincing
them to be different or have different responses than they normally are used
to. It's about:

Fitting the mold of what they ALREADY perceive to be attractive...providing
all the cues and social triggers that for them say, "It's slut time!". And
doing it when you normally might not fit what THEY consider to be a
delicious prospect by using your attitude, dialog, game moves, etc. Thus,
out of the guys they COULD select who might be better looking, have higher
social status, you reshuffle the deck so you appear to have been dealt the
high-cards they normally respond to and look for.

It seems to me, especially with regard to you bar and club guys, that this
is what you are aiming at. It's all aimed, however it might appear to THEM,
at tweaking YOURSELF so that you draw THEM...without even really bothering
to examine if "THEM" is really much worth wanting.

The problem, as I see it, with this approach is that these girls tend to be
ones who are ALWAYS are usually looking for NET (Next Exciting Thing). Much
as you guys are looking for the next hotter babe (NHB) they tend to move
towards WHATEVER/WHOMEVER is most stimulating/exciting/challenging in the
environment. Hence the flakiness, extreme testing, drama-whorishness that is
so common with these women. It means having to exert a LOT of control and
also having to do lots of recruiting; they aren't aimed at sticking around
anyway, so you constantly have to be on the job to get more.

I know a guy who is the best I've ever seen at attracting and quickly
nailing these kinds of women. He's been with over 500 of them, but he is
ALSO constantly having to recruit. Ask him in private and he'll tell you his
return customer ratios suck; they run at somewhere around 10-15%.

He's good looking, athletic, VERY rich, I don't think he's got a small unit
(but I've never looked or asked) so it isn't about that. It's about the
audience he's aiming at. If he keeps doing what he's doing he'll keep being
players providing the same action and dialog.

Another Way To View It

Seduction might, just might be about presenting new and different choices to
women. Which means a process of CONDITIONING over a period of time.(Anywhere
from three weeks to a month over a period of 2-3 meetings/phone
calls/talking.)  I've had WONDERFUL experiences with women who would just
never, and I mean NEVER go home with a guy the first night because it's so
totally 100% outside of their experience. But what they were then able to
experience with me and what they were and where they were capable of going
was awesome. And also, I was not at all able to create an overwhelming
attraction right out of the gate simply because I didn't have much time to
talk to them the first time around. Debriefing them told me that they WERE
fascinated by me, and as one young lady said, "I'm a sucker for
fascination...that's why I agreed to talk to you again."

This person took that brief 5 minute initial meeting.....a phone
conversation....a coffee meeting...and then an evening "meeting" before she
was closed. But she treated me respectfully the ENTIRE time, kept her
appointments, I spent NOTHING, and she was really quite wonderful for more
than a one nighter and we remain good friends to this day. I didn't take her
home that day I met her (for her, sex makes her feel very vulnerable....does
this make her a "Bitch" with a "shield" or a human who has some concerns to
be handled and addressed?) and I'll wager NO ONE here in this forum could.

It just seems to me that you guys are placing SO much emphasis on seduction
being about a PERFORMANCE over a VERY short period of time for a "Hottie",
BASED SOLELY ON HER LOOKS, that in no place do you address finding out more
about what makes HER uniquely HER; both so you can get a closer look at whom
you might be getting closer too and so you can decide if conditioning her
over a period of time will be worth the candle. It doesn't seem to me you
are looking at what your OWN needs might be from a woman other than
providing proof for yourself that you are an excellent PUA and a bit of
sexual excitement. Consider you may get very lost in what works for you too

The great thing is that when you DO use the conditioning approach, in a
non-dating, non-supplicating, NON-AFC way, instead of being in such a
frantic hurry to bury your dick in her, you actually can find you get more
benefits once you do. She can then see it as more than just a quick lay that
she then has to run from. You can get a look at what YOU want, at a deeper
level from a woman that...SHOCKERS....your "wing" might not consider a 10
but that you find to be quite the lovely, lovely HB.

Now, I want to emphasize, this is NOT AFC. I don't buy them gifts. I don't
spend money (except sometimes coffee). I don't take ANY crap and I DON'T
listen to their problems (if she's temporarily in a "hoo hoo" about an
IMMEDIATE crisis that is truly painful in THAT moment, I'm not going to
rudely shut her up....I won't listen to CHRONIC problems, ever, however. One
girl cancelled on me recently because her grandmother dropped dead the day
we are going to have coffee; am I supposed to bitch her out for that or
demand "she make it up to me?") or adjust my schedule for them. I'm NOT
dating. But I am being kind enough to see that some folks need a bit of a
conditioning period and sometimes they have lives going on that may prevent
them from immediately recognizing my inherent wonderfulness. The world don't
revolve around me; sometimes I can create a world attractive enough that
others choose to revolve around it, or at least try out a nice geo-sexual
orbit for a while!

Now, sometimes in the conditioning process, there are "respect
opportunities" where behavior has to be corrected. That's ok; that's MY job.
Some flunk out because they are too flaky, too busy, too embroiled in other
drama/turmoil or I just didn't do a fine enough job of establishing that
initial fascination AND that my time needs to be respected and cherished.
But overall, I find myself more comfortable with this and I get MUCH further
with women who otherwise I'd never have a shot at.

Ok...I'm done raving for Christmas Eve. Please know I'm not putting down
ANYONE'S skills. I'm learning here like everyone else and admire ANYONE who
is out there slugging it out in the field instead of hiding behind their
>I have been reading up a bit on the concept of Social Proof, where it is
>considered better to be seen with a chyck in public than to be seen alone.
>As most of us agree, HB's will see you as "approved", hence you will
>look more attractive in their eyes. I am currently seeing what I consider
>"7" grade HB, and want to upgrade to a "9" (SHB). My two part question is:
>If I
>use Social Proof, can I utilize a "7" to upgrade to a "9"?? and if so,
>how does one proceed??? Aside from the obvious bring her to places where
>"9"'s see you with your "7", what are the next steps?? is there a website
>that goes a bit more in-depth of this??

Let me jump in here a second and point something different out; how
are we rating what makes a "7" or a "9" or a "10" for that matter?

Guys, what are we really in this for? Personally, I will attempt much with a
girl who is a "10" if her attitude is bad, if she is stupid, displays
self-absorption etc.

Is "10" a measure of how much we SUBJECTIVELY feel attracted to a
woman, based on a range of qualities...sure, an attractive body, but
also friendly, outgoing, good energy, etc?  Far be it from me to be a
feminist, but crikey, it seems the ONLY thing spoken of here that
makes a woman attractive is her LOOKS..her PHYSICAL appearance...what kind
of photo she'd make on a wall.

Whereas, personally, I've met women who are stunning but have
NOTHING but drama, desperation, dysfunction and disaster surrounding
them. THIS you find attractive? For THIS you are going to tweak
yourself, watch your every thought, response and move to make sure
she comes after you?

Everything in your post, Flyer, is about YOUR appearing more
attractive to them...isn't this, in a sense, a form of EXISTENTIAL
supplication...where ALL of who and what you are is bent towards
drawing THEM?

So what would YOU get out of being with a "10", looks-wise? You've
proven yourself? Your attractiveness? What?

A good part of SS in recent times has been about a covert-screening
mechanism as much as it is about making yourself more appealing; a way of
SCREENING out women with bad behavior, limited response potential, etc. etc.

Personally, I'll take an "8" by my looks scale who also has good
social graces, is a great host, has a wonderful sense of adventure,
is giving, smart, has a LIFE going on that has nothing to do with me,
a great brain in her head, good self-esteem, highly sexual, playful
and suggestible over some "10" fitness model who is self-absorbed in
her Hollywood-wanna-be-fantasies and basically has nothing but her
bod to give.  I won't give these "10's" the time of day because 99%
percent of them are drastically and I mean DRASTICALLY disturbed.
How much do you want to tweak yourself to be appealing and acceptable
to THAT?


Alexander: NLP is mostly kidstuff. It's nice to incorporate some of the
patterns, but they are not really essential in persuading people. There are
much better, more scientific methodologies one could apply:


Believe it or not, I found this at a Rules Girls' forum(!). They liked it.
It's a bit corny but since it reminded me of "you dropped your smile", I
I'd send it to you.
Dude bumps into chick an apologizes, looking down to ground....
"Pardon me, I dropped something"
...both look to ground...nothing there...
chick looks at dude like, "what?"
...and he says, ", Jaw!"


I have been having some confusion about the attitudes and techniques being
contributed by members of your list.Just lately, I realized that you are
pioneering two schools in your list, namely the school and PUA's and the
school of NLP/ SSers.  Two different philosophies, strategies, and tactics.
I thought it might as well be somehow confusing to the newbies in the list,
and worth pointing that thing out.

With this realization now,  I'm now starting to make a distinction in terms
of who writes what and who responds to whom. IMHO, maybe it worthwhile
having either two separate mailing lists, or dividing each list into two
half's, one half to each school.

My Comment:  While I can see why you may think there are two schools, I
prefer to look at it like there are many, many different ideas out there on
this subject, including several people with their own systems and others
with their own individual ideas, tactics, strategies, etc.  I think that you
have to find what works and what fits with you and that can come from
anywhere.  The wise man can learn from the fool, remember.


I am curious about how guys consider there cars in relation to seduction.
I'm not talking about what you drive, but how you keep it, and what you keep
in your car.  Because of my busy schedule I kinda live out of my car.  It
looks terrible when I take a woman in my car, and often I have to clear
space in the front seat.
I find that some woman enjoy looking in my car and consider it a way of
learning about me.  It also creates a feeling of this guy is down to earth
and I can be comfortable with him.  It also probably causes them to think
I'm a slob.  However, this becomes a convenient reason to take her car
gas/wear and tear and I get to learn about her).  My car typically has some
changes of clothing, gym bags/gym equipment, a few books and magazines, a
bag of pretzels, a few audiobooks, a music tape, things I need for work
(mainly papers, and work related reading), and some small things I like to
keep (a dictaphone, moisturizer, hand sanitizer *use sparingly b/c it kills
good bacteria & dries skin, tissues, nail clipper) etc.
> Well Groomed"

This is more accessible than most people think.  There are books and
magazines (GQ) that can help you.  Many of the better department stores will
offer professional shopping services.  Nordstrom will do this for free and
they will help you shop within your budget.  This is almost a secret that
only the wealthy customers take advantage of even though it is available and
accessible even for many college students.  3 important rules even if you're
wearing ripped old cheap clothing:
1) Make sure your clothing matches
2) Make sure you are clean and your clothing is clean, preferable stain free
3) Make sure your clothing is pressed and wrinkle free.
Another good trick is to go for a very expensive haircut every 6 months.
Your goal with this haircut is to get a style that 1) you can manage on your
own, and 2) your local barber can maintain.  If you tip the styling ace well
and explain that you can't get to him all the time, but you like to go there
as a special treat every few months s/he will work with you to give you what
you want.
Another important rule -- learn to take care of your teeth and skin.  This
also important for health.  Although not all movie stars and TV
have beautiful bodies, you will virtually never see a star with lousy teeth.
Getting a better bod is also quite achievable for most people.  Most of the
HB's will probably be OK with your body so long as you're not really outta
shape.  Going to the gym will not only build your confidence, it will also
create a meeting place and common interest with many HB's.  Plus, you will
be in shape to do activities with her i.e. canoeing, rollerblading, skiing,
If you workout, it is worth investing some time in learning how to train and
eat intelligently.  You might find that you can cut your workouts in half
get better results.  Very often simple adjustments make huge differences.
For example, working out in the morning before you eat will speed up your
metabolism all day (burn more calories).  Eating late at nite you won't burn
calories as quickly.
Some easy places to start are Bill Philips Fit for Life, and Pavel's books
(available at  Pavel's workout is great for athletes and
takes only 20 minutes and can be done with a simple home weight set
(investment about $130).  Getting some cardio is also helpful.  Static
Contraction Training by Little and Sisco can be done in 1 or 2  half-hour
workouts a week (they say 15 minutes and it is probably an hour when you're
learning the system).  If you're really time pressed there is a new book out
called Spark which is based on working exercise in to your life 5 or 10
minutes at a time.  Spark training will actually help your body increase
Growth Hormone (GH) production (builds muscle/burns fat) because moderate
exercise a few times a day is best for GH production.   Most people can
probably start by alternating a day of cardio with a day of strength
training.  It is always advisable before exercising to discuss your plans
with a physician.
Everyone has different advice regarding dieting.  I like Rob Faigin's
Hormonal Enhancement approach (available from Tools for Exploration/Tools
for Wellness, or Dragons Door).  I also like Mauro Di Pasquale's books.
Everyone is different here.
>  William006:
>  I agree we could use some more of these "how to be successful with
>  manuscripts. I don't remember where I read about this book but I bought
>  and put it into practice this weekend and it is AWESOME stuff.
>  The book is "Secrets of Sensual Lovemaking"by Tom Leonardi. My
>  says it is the most unbelievable orgasmic experience she has ever had.
>  unlike any clitoral orgasm in that it comes (no pun intended) from "a
>  deep inside the core of her being". Those were her words exactly.
>  that Tom Leonardi mentions in the book happened, in the exact order he
>  it would.
>  My girlfriend can't get enough of it.
>  Highly recommend it.

I read the book and thought his attitudes and approaches with woman was spot
on.  However, I haven't gotten great results from his technique (however,
I've only tried it a few times with one woman)
>  Now obviously in this writing that you've just read, the difference in
>  language I've used to describe the two views has been dramatic.
>  Possibly you were mildly offended by the language I used in describing
>  manly view.  (If you are a woman you were probably revolted.)

I can handle the language.  I'm commenting on the language because I think
your attitude is holding you back.  I think you might get a lot more of the
sex you desire if you change your attitude.  Nice Guys get laid.  Nice
doesn't mean you have to be a spineless wimp (a good recipe for failure).
Perhaps if you stopped obsessing and making it like sex is the only thing
might find that sex is easier to get.  Desperation is not very sexy.
> Don wrote:
> What I mean, and meant (clearly, I think), is
>  that it takes work to get.

Maybe you'll experience more success when you stop thinking of it as work
and start thinking of it as play.
> Flyer:
>  I have been reading up a bit on the concept of Social Proof, where it is
>  considered better to be seen with a chyck in public than to be seen
>  As most of us agree, HB's will see you as "approved", hence you will
>  look more attractive in their eyes. I am currently seeing what I
>  "7" grade HB, and want to upgrade to a "9" (SHB). My two part question
>  If I
>  use Social Proof, can I utilize a "7" to upgrade to a "9"?? and if so,
>  how does one proceed??? Aside from the obvious bring her to places where
>  "9"'s see you with your "7", what are the next steps?? is there a
>  that goes a bit more in-depth of this??

"7" and "9" are only labels in your mind.  Someone else might regard the 7
more attractive than the 9, or maybe say they are a 6 and 10.  Social Proof
would work best if you allow the 9 to see you with lots of women, or if you
are only with one woman make sure she is a 9 or 10.  If you are with the 7
would help you with both the 7 and the 9 if the 9 sees you as a challenge
the 7.  If you ignore the 9 because you're with the 7 it will also give you
bonus points with both woman.  When making yourself a challenge don't be
rude to the 7.   3 of the best things to take with you when you want to meet
babes are in order of effectiveness:
1) A Super Hot Babe
2) A puppy dog
3) A child
If you're using a dog, labs and golden retrievers tend to work well.  You
a friendly, approachable dog.  However, you want a somewhat macho dog as
opposed to something like a little poodle.  You also want a dog that is
friendly with strangers and somewhat well trained.
> Mystery:
>  >Ross and Bishop are always saying: "GO THERE FIRST, and the only
>  >way for her to feel good internally is for you to feel wonderful
>  >internally." Don't you agree with that?
>  I don't have an answer for that really.  I mean, the strategy I use to
>  IN the mood is to approach.  Sure, the first 3 sets might be strained
>  tell you, they wake you up and get you into TALKATIVE STATE.  The
>  IS the state changer.

This is a confirmation of Go There First.

My Comment:  I think you mean "you go first."

Halbster (Continues): Mystery is just giving his strategy for getting into
state.  Note that Mystery's first three are warmups which means that until
he is in state he is not getting his best results.  Someone using anchoring,
energywork, rituals, meditation etc. might be able to get in state quicker.
Several years ago I used to spend several hours a day listening to brain
sync/chakra balancing/energizing tapes, and at least an hour or two every
day doing energized breath work (middle pillars, chi kung etc.) and
meditating.  Although, attracting HB's was not my purpose for doing it, the
energized breathwork worked extremely well for me.  Cliff once mentioned how
he spent a few weeks in a highly charged state that he got into primarily
via affirmations.  The challenge is to find out what works for you.
Everyone is different, and at different times you might find different
methods work for you.  If you can get into the right state you might find
that the HB's are approaching you and making it easy for you.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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