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"Sisonpyh on Ross, Mystery, and Everyone…"

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Sisonpyh on Ross, Mystery, and Everyone…
1/1/01 5:23:55 PM Eastern Standard Time


Hey guys,

Well, it looks like my contribution has caused quite the discussion and I
first want to say thank you to all of you guys for your comments. You've
given me some great ideas that I'm going to implement immediately.

I think that almost all of us need more people in our lives to kick our
asses in a loving way, be direct, and speak from experience instead of
speculating and guessing which only misdirects and confuses the

So I thank you all again. I truly appreciate it.

I would also like to ***CHALLENGE*** all you bad ass pick up artists that
are reading this to take a few hours and write out a summary of your best
stuff like I did so we can see how it all fits together. Knowing how a
system works and fits together in context is usually more useful than bits
and pieces. I know, I know it takes time and effort, but all the killer guys
like Riker, Rick, Bishop, etc. take the time to do it, so if you want to
take it to the next level, I challenge you to do the same.

Let's help these other guys out and give them what we wish we could have
gotten at the beginning.


There are a few things that I probably should have added to my post and
would have added had I known that this was going to create such a big stir
on this list... so let me add some of those things now.

First of all let me say that I think that Wisdom is a combination of a high
level of education, a high level of experience, and a high level of knowing
whether you're dealing with the rule or the exception so you can adjust as
new information appears.

My goal was to share my basic stuff so that anyone who read it could have a
set of good, workable tools to go out and start using stuff that I've tried
and made work for me.

I also want to say that I have more things that I do (far, far more, in
fact) that I didn't write about (for lack of a year to write it all out)
than things I did write about.

I'm not a very rigid person in fact, I do all kinds of crazy shit and try
new things constantly.

I don't ALWAYS stroke the woman's hair to close I don't always meet for
coffee I don't always do anything (Well, maybe one thing I ALMOST always
never give a woman a direct answer unless it's no lol) I work with the
situation and what I know.

But here's the deal, guys there are just too many people out there that have
very little experience and real world honest to god success who are willing
to offer 'advice' for free.

I'm not directing this to anyone in specific, but there are far too many
guys on this list that really don't know what the hell they're talking
about, commenting on things that they know little or nothing about, and
doing it in a way that sounds like their 'opinions' should be considered
with equal weight as the experience of a guy like Mystery or Rick.

I have a rule of thumb in life that I use it takes about 2-4 years just to
get 'good' at something. And I mean JUST TO GET GOOD. Think martial arts,
playing an instrument anything. (Read the first chapter of "Mastery" by
Leonard for more wisdom on this topic)

Sure, you can have some success and fun while learning, but experience has
shown me that to really 'get' something, and to be able to use it in many
contexts successfully, you need to apply yourself for 2-4 years.

THEN, I think it takes another 2-4 years to become a 'master' of whatever
you're doing.

At the 10+ year level is usually where the Genius level really kicks in

My point here is to say that I've been applying myself for almost 3 years
now, and I am just starting to have an understanding of how this shit works
and I'm going to keep on applying myself into the future.

If you've never been successful with women in the way that the get laid
kings on this list have, then I would suggest that you take a bigger view of
this whole thing. Instead of saying "How do I get this one girl in the copy
room to like me?" ask "What do I need to do over the next twelve months so
that I get this part of my life handled?"

If you're just plain lazy and want a shortcut, go ahead and try all of them.
But you'll most likely find, like most others do, that massive success with
this material takes practice, effort, and a commitment.

There are many exceptions to this rule but ask any of the real bad asses how
long they've been at it, and you'll hear some time frames that have the word
"years" after the number.

Another thing that I've learned is that many mismatchers (those that like to
respond to everything by finding the exception) don't take the time to
mention that their argument does not negate the original point, it only
modifies it and points out a useful distinction. (I should know, I'm a
mismatcher and used to argue with EVERYTHING)

Better way: Point out that your mismatching is to make a distinction, give
credit to the original contributor, and always point out that there will be
exceptions to your exception and to keep your mind open.

(I think that it's particularly misleading to say "I disagree..." and then
stating your opinion. This often confuses inexperienced people and causes
them to doubt ALL of the other information that's contained in the system or
technique. Instead say "If it were me, I'd try blah blah blah in this
situation..." or "What works for me is...")

I mean, if someone is saying something that's blatantly fucked up, they need
to be corrected, but arguing needlessly is usually just a sign of insecurity
and fucks up a coherent train of thought or a working system that could
merely be improved with a wiser and more thoughtful contribution.

People are contributing to this list for many reasons; some contribute to
attention that they can't get any other way some want to help other guys
succeed.  Some just like to argue so pay attention to the TONE of each
contribution and the SPIRIT of the writer... not to mention if they sound
like they know what they fuck they're talking about... lol (I have to tell
you, I get a warm feeling when I see all these guys talking about my post. I

have these feelings of "Hey, I'm cool, these guys like me blah blah blah"
I'll never say something just to get attention. My commitment is that I'll
only talk if I think I'm saying something that's damn important, and not
just some random opinion to get attention.)

Also, when you're reading, don't just listen for what sounds EASY, listen
for what sounds like it's being written from a place of contribution,
experience, and wisdom.

I mean, hey, in life, no one is going to do this for you. You'll have to
responsibility and do it yourself.

OK back to some real time, real world stuff

Right now, I'm seeing five women.

Two look like super models, two look like regular models, and one is older,
but still hot.

I've dated many such women over the last few years....

To the guy who says that all the hot women in Toronto go out with guys that
wear sneakers and cargoes I'm doing a mental inventory right now, and I'll
say that maybe 2 out of the last 10 super hotties that I've dated would have
gone out with me if I'd have dressed that way, and 8 would not.

Also, I'd like to add to what you've said and mention that the 'raver' type
guys that some of these women date are usually ULTRA cool in their own way.
They usually know their particular style and are super cool in their own
way. It's not an accident. (Maybe you could tell us what brands, colors,
etc. of sneakers and cargoes they wear, how they fit, what hair styles they
wear, how they meet and approach the hotties, where they meet them, etc.
Tell us what they're doing that works and how they do it.  Do YOU dress like
this? How's it working for you? I'm one of the boring guys with the shiny
black shoes that's banging a lot of hot women if another look would work
for me, I'd like to know EXACTLY how it works).

By the way, thanks for the kiss for a light idea killer.

Overall, I'm just saying that no matter what you're doing, it's better to
know what's going on and be knowledgeable and informed than to be ignorant
and guessing.

More ideas:
1. Voice tone is VERY important. Work on developing a deep, resonant,
musical, articulate voice tone. (Get on eBay and buy some voice training
tapes and listen to the "Trouble Shooters" tapes from Ross Jeffries and
listen to Orion talking about voice tone. Women find a sexy voice
irresistible. This is a big one, guys.  Can I hear an AMEN from those that
know what I'm saying?)

2. Read "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway" by Susan Jeffers.  This book is
great for facing the concept of fear.

OK, I'm sitting here on Christmas day typing this so Merry Christmas don't
say I never gave you anything.

Thanks again for all the feedback and ideas, everyone. It looks like my
investment has yielded me some great dividends.

Also, I want to take a moment to acknowledge Clifford... he is the true hero
for taking the time and discipline to create this community.

Stay on your own paths, guys.


My Comment:  After getting this, I had some questions which Sisonpyh was
gracious enough to respond to.  Here they are (my subsequent questions are
prefaced with an ">"): What's your formula for juggling five women at once?

Well, two of them are once to twice a week, one is about once every two
weeks, and the others are kind of 'whenever we get a chance to get

The two that are more regular take more time and more precedence. As you can
imagine, there are always one or two coming (all puns intended) and going...
I got five phone numbers this weekend, and the fact is that if I'm going to
see any of these women on a regular basis, I'm going to have to make the
time by not seeing another woman... I think of it this way to remind myself
that there is no shortage of women, only a shortage of my time for them...
this keeps the frame and my communication with them better.

The formula is simple: I tell all women when I first meet them something
like "I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make is getting
involved too fast. If you look at all the relationships that turn out REALLY
bad, you'll see that most of them were a result of people that didn't know
each other getting involved too fast. I think that people should get to know
each other for at LEAST 3-6 months before starting an exclusive
relationship. That's the mature thing to do. When I'm in a relationship, I'm
100% faithful, and I expect the same from my girlfriend. But when I'm
single, I see nothing wrong with going out with different people."

I think this speaks for itself. if a woman disagrees with this (which I've
had a few times, and they've left) then I just go on.

The nice part about framing things this way is that by 3-6 months, you've
been sleeping together a lot, and you're friends, but not in a
'relationship'. So if and when you get any pressure, you can just say "I
think that our relationship works great the way it is."

If you're taking great care of them sexually, telling them the truth, being
fun/interesting/stimulating etc., then they likely have no one else who can
give them this. So it's easy.

The idea that a woman is going to pressure you into a relationship, that
it's going to be a hard thing to deal with, that she'll leave if you don't,
blah blah blah is bullshit.

If it happens, so be it. But it usually doesn't.

By the way, by month 3 or 4, if they're not relationship material, they're
usually not in the picture anyway, by MY choice. And they're always friends
afterward, as I treat women well.
>And how did you meet them?

Met two at bars with walk ups, one through a friend at a dinner, and two
>How do you schedule them?

At the beginning of the week, I call them or email them and say "Hey, what's
up this week? I'm going to be busy on _ and _, so what about _ or _? Then I
kind of feel out what their schedules are and plan accordingly.

It doesn't take long to figure out their schedule and know when things are
going to happen. Then you just say "Tuesday again?".  It's no problem at all
once you do it.

I always imagined that there would be all kinds of problems dating many
women, but they were all in my imagination.  In real life it's so easy.

By the way, I keep a computer file that has my "A" list of women that I'm
currently dating, my "B" list of women that I'm in the process of setting a
first meeting with, and a "New" list of women that I've met in various
places that I need to follow up with. This keeps all the info in one place,
and by looking at it every day, it makes it so someone doesn't slip through
the cracks. Make no mistake... this requires attention and discipline.
>How do you deal with phone calls late at night from one or more when you
>are with another one in bed?

I don't answer it... actually, I often unplug it. Being hard to reach is a
major advantage. I always thought women would say "What were you doing last
night?" and try to corner me... rarely happens.
>What about big days like your birthday, Christmas, New Years, Valentine's
>Day, etc. when they all expect to see you?

I spend those days with my best guy friends and my family.
>How long have you been seeing each one, and what do you do that you >think
keeps them around?  It's been my experience that most highly intelligent
>women will let you play in the "gray zone" for about three months and then
>will get pretty insistent that it's only them or they are out of there (of
course, >it's always nice to meet an exception).

One has been about 6 months, one is about 4 months, two are about 2 months,
one is a few weeks.

I don't think in terms of "Playing in a gray zone" ever. I think in terms of
"If they're nice, I'll let them keep enjoying my company and getting the
best time of their life." I do little things for them. I'm honest with them.
I learn what they like sexually and do it for them. I treat them very, very
well. These women are my friends, and I don't treat them as just playthings
or objects. If I don't enjoy a woman, then I don't see her.  It's simple. If
they have some fucked up belief like "I can't just enjoy the wonderful time
that I have with this guy. I have to fuck it up by making him see me
exclusively" then it's their loss, not mine. I tell them "Fine. Go find some
guy who wants to kiss your ass and do what you tell him to do. I'm sure
you'll be very happy once you get the ring through his nose. But that guy is
not me, so don't even try it." Women have a way of changing their tune
quickly when confronted with this mindset.
>I still look up to Hugh Hefner and his four simultaneous girlfriends (how
>about that one for dealing with age differences?), but I haven't found out
>how he managed to get into that situation or how he keeps it going (it's
>been like two years now). And if you think it's only because of his money,
>that's a limiting belief that I just don't accept -- there aren't many rich
>men out there who have been able to do the same thing, are there?  (Ok,
>well, at least not many if any that I've heard about).

Cliff, read "You'll Never Make Love In This Town Again". one of the girls
gives an interesting look inside Hugh's game. Hugh is the man. Here's my
take on Hugh:

He's the original 'Playboy'.  He has the cash, the mansion, the friends,
But he also has something else: a VIP pass to fame for any woman that he
chooses. I mean, think about it: if he says OK, you're in one of the biggest
magazines in the world, and making big money. Just like Metallica has a
dozen women waiting in the shower after the show and Rick Springfield had a
personal sex scheduler on tour with him, Hugh's situation is by design. If
you want to be like him, do something big like him and it will be Game Over.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

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A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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