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How do you shut these women up
1/26/01 5:38:10 PM Eastern Standard Time


Joe Gigolo advises about the following:
Dating Insider Teaches You How To Meet, Attract, & Date Women Into The
Bedroom! Learn skills in highly effective seduction, charisma, and
attraction on meeting and dating women! MUCH MORE...! Visit the website at and to subscribe to their email newsletter, send a
blank email to:
dat***e@to***.com[ ? ]

Comments on their products would be appreciated.

Joe also mentioned  as a place to visit, which
gives some free tips as well.  They also offer a free email newsletter.  Joe
asks if anyone has bought the pheromone cologne at and if so, what their
results have been.


This seems to be the book referred to in previous mails which is in stock at
Barnes & Noble.  Available at
How to Be the Jerk Women Love: Social Success for Men and Women in the '90's
by F. J. Shark  and Frank Spavlica
Our Price: $11.65  In Stock: 24 hours (Same Day)
Format: Paperback, 157pp.
ISBN: 0964010909
Publisher: Thunder World Promotions, Incorporated
Pub. Date: June  1994
sales rank: 51,496


> Bjorn (continuing):
> Also, in a previous posting someone asked what to do if you
> break the 3
> second rule?  I am at the point where I am about to approach
> an HB but then
> as I approach I detour and decide to go to the men's room to
> check my hair
> or something.  My question is whether I should eject at this
> point or go
> through with the approach even though I broke the 3 second rule.
> Optimus:
> I mean, I look at some of my friends relationships and the
> frame is totally
> wrong.  And I just can't figure it out.

I want to reply to both Optimus and Bjorn. I'm very far from being the best
PUA of the world but I have understand something very important on the many
seduction techniques and advise available on the Internet that many people
seem to have difficulty to grasp. It is that the best quality a PUA can
have is flexibility.
The different rules are just guidelines not strict rules that have to be
followed at all costs. The 3 seconds rule is for demonstrating spontaneity
a girl which is a good thing and a good place to start. If you break that
rule, so what ??? You can always demonstrate to her your other qualities.
Bjorn, if you break that rule, go see the girl anyway. You have everything
to win, nothing to lose.

It is the same thing for the No supplication rule. I have a friend that did
not get laid because he had hurt a girl's feelings and he was afraid to
apologize because she could have perceived that as supplication. If I have
an outcome in mind with a girl and being nice with her can help me to
achieve my goal, I'll do it even if that could be perceived as supplication.
I mean, a behavior with absolutely no mercy is not much better than
AFC behavior. So when you're using these rules, never forget your own
judgment !!!
Also, about Optimus' comment that says that he doesn't understand why some
'nice guys' and AFC's are able to get girls, the way I understand it is that
like in
any generalization, there are flaws and exceptions. There are girls that DO
this kind of guy. The generalization that girls like to be with a man that
controls his life and his relations is a good way to see how to do
well with girls in general but it is not THE only reality.


A game women play:
One thing that I've noticed many HB's will do is when their BF isn't looking
they'll smile at a guy and look at him flirtatiously.  I believe that often
this is done because they want their BF to notice other guys noticing them.
Well just like many of you delight in stealing woman's lines, you can also
enjoy stealing their behaviors.  You can do the same, especially when she
notices you.  One thing that I've occasionally enjoyed doing when it is
obvious to my woman that some other woman is hitting on me is to disappear
for a few minutes, and let my woman think that I'm with this other woman.
Then, I let my woman discover me near this woman, but ignoring her while I'm
engrossed in a conversation with someone else -- usually a guy.
If my woman says something I'll make it clear that the other woman couldn't
hold my interest.  I don't say anything about my being glued to her.  I
merely state that woman wasn't enough.  This is ambiguous as to other woman.
This is also a challenge to my woman because it is subtly saying "you have
to hold my interest."
This is something I've done in the past, and it works well.  However, my
attitude now is I don't play games like this.  Now, I rely almost
exclusively on 1 thing.  Being highly focused on making my woman feel
absolutely wonderful with me.
> 3)Special Realizations:
>  My most important one is that THIS IS MY REALITY, AND SHE IS A GUEST. Not
>  the other way around. If a woman tries to play a game with me, put me
>  give me an excuse, etc. I've started laughing out loud at them. At first,
>  they don't know what's going on... but then I say something like
>  what, are you kidding? Give me a break." This tells them that their
>  ploys aren't going to even get by my radar... nevermind into my reality.
>  never get upset at them or let them get to me emotionally (this is key,
>  because if they sense that they've found a button, they'll use it over
>  over again). As my friend Eric once said "YOU'RE IN MY REALITY NOW."

This post and Zvi's recent post are solid gold.  They both state what I've
found to be consistently true over time, only I wasn't able to articulate it
as well as Cliff and Zvi recently did.  Cliff, I love your reality.

My Comment:  I wasn't aware that it was different from anyone else's.


>.. I spent a
>long time learning how to get phone numbers from women, only to realize
>this wasn't the same as getting laid. Then, I learned how to get women to
>come over to my house, only to realize that this wasn't the same as getting
>laid. I finally realized that I have to lead the way the entire time...
>like in ballroom dancing. I have to know where we're going, and lead the
>the entire time.

This last part is ESPECIALLY true when you are standing outside of
what she is USED to experiencing and USED to responding to.

To the extent that you CAN and DO establish yourself as unique,
different, etc. etc. she will be attracted, but it will also be
unfamiliar. And you can't expect HER to do the driving in unfamiliar
territory; she can only drive on the map she's used to. And you have
taken her off of it.

This has been the single hardest lesson for me to learn; I'VE GOT TO
DRIVE.  When I meet that extraordinary and exceptional woman/women
who don't need so much guidance, I think I'll drop my jaw before I
drop my pants.

Meantime, we've got to connect the dots and be clear on our outcome
and Sis is right; numbers aren't getting them back to your place.
Getting them back to your place doesn't mean you're going to get

At best, we can aim at women who are attracted to the unfamiliar and
who are not going to as a reflex run from it; it's ok for them to
have temporary reluctance and other responses, just so long as it
isn't GLUED to their personality; it isn't PART of who they are.


Gimmee Two rocked! I am really, really impressed.
I'm the guy in Portland, Oregon and this place is so easy compared to
Washington DC or from what I've heard - Toronto. I sat in a Borders one day
and counted about a two to one ratio of women to men passing by. The women
here love to talk. Easy to approach in a non-bar scene, and I've had women
thank me for approaching them wishing more men had my courage. This is sargy
paradise. I've learned so much in the last three weeks, on what I've been
doing wrong, because when I screw up they don't cut me off cold like in DC.
It's got to be the gender ratios and the men here really aren't big players.

I still need wingman desperately. Again, anyone please contact
jon***p@ma***.com[ ? ]. Yes, I'm supplicating anyone who wants to join in the


Magic Juan:
>A friend of mine (has been with over 500 women) said
>that the roll of persistence has been the key in
>seducing all the women he has been with.
>He says that unless a woman tells him
>"don't call me any more" he will continue to
>call her and pitch for the meet. His rationale
>is, if she doesn't tell him to stop calling,
>then there is some interest, and persistence is
>what overcomes the resistance.

What does he do when the woman agrees to meet, but
then blows him off?  Does he just call her up and
say "Missed you at Starbucks ..." then pitch for
another meeting?


Was in Ft.Lauderdale last nite and wanted to go to Shula's for
dinner...famous steak house and I figured there'd be a decent crowd there. I
got there early and found a prime spot in the center of the bar and waited.
Sure enough, three chicks came in, did a lap, and came over and sat right
next to me. And would you believe they were from Raleigh! How bizarre ; )
Anyway, we were chatting it up and they all were totally focused on me, it
was weird cause I wasn't doing any patterning or anything, just normal
conversation.They were all 23-24 and I was thinking "what's going on long is this gonna last". And then.....a couple walked in and
dropped down on the other side of me. This woman was incredible, and as I
was trying to figure out the nature of their relationship they both pulled
out their cellphones and started playing with them. I jumped in and said "I
can't get a signal in here, can you"? Then the girl looked right at me and
said "What's your number?"  Cliff, I almost shit in my pants...she dialed me
up and I now had her number on caller ID and she had mine. By this time I
had completely forgotten about the three chicks from Raleigh...came to find
out from her date that she was a former Victoria's Secret model and at 39
had not lost much...just fucking awesome.
This guy went on to tell me he's been trying to get in her pants for two
years and that she was the ultimate challenge. OK, that's all I needed to
hear. So I engaged them both in a convo about hypnosis and somehow they got
the idea I was a therapist? Anyway, lively discussion and when it was time
to go she asked if I wanted to come along. FUCK YEAH! I tried to contain
myself as I was now dealing with the disappointment of the Raleigh girls but
I managed
to get their cards before I left.
So now I'm out with these total strangers in the back seat of Alyssa's Jag
going to God knows where. She took us to a dance club---allright! This guy
still working her like there's no tomorrow. So we get to the club and she
immediately for the floor, I stay behind to make Bob my No.1 ally. When she
finally came back to the bar, Bob was throwing me props and telling her he
had a new best friend. Amazing the effect this kind of thing has. So she had
a drink, I did Ross' soul gazing pattern, hot guy, etc. and Bob pulled her
back out on the floor when he saw her focus begin to shift. Bob didn't last
and I quickly took his place. Gotcha! The more she tried to hang on to me
more I would push her away. When I tried to walk off the floor she grabbed
back of my hair and tried to pull me back. What a feeling. When it was time
to go she took me by the hand and led me back to her car, but this time she
Bob in the back seat. Got back to the restaurant and I politely said
goodnight and stepped out. Alyssa bolted out of the car, ran around to my
side, threw her arms around me and began kissing me all over my face! Now I
am in total and absolute fucking shock and she wants to know where I'm
staying. So I
gave her a key to my room and she said she's be about 30 minutes. Poor Bob!
So I got back to the hotel and went to the lobby bar. There in the middle of
6 idiot guys was one of the most beautiful women I've seen in a while. these
guys were trying to impress her with golf stories, job achievements, that
kind of
bullshit. I just observed...then she turned and looked me right in the eyes
and we just held it for a moment and she said "What's your name?" we
go. So we talked for about 15 minutes like there was no one else there. She
was from Denver so any follow up is impossible so I let her off the hook and
went back to my room.  Alyssa was ten minutes late, was great.
Even today, I had a young cutie helping me with my stuff as I got on the
plane and the guy sitting next to me offered to get my bags!!!! Dude, this
has never happened. I feel like the Dalai Lama or some shit.
Anyway, there are dramatic changes going on in how I see the world and in
how the world sees me. Cliff, it's amazing, food tastes better, music sounds
better, sex is better, everything is new! And I'm taking this newfound
"thing" right into the middle of the pack tonite...the forbidden zone in
Charlotte. All the
tension is gone, no more anxiety about anything, and everything is
completely calm, and the world is coming to me for the first time. Should be
some good material here in the next few weeks.

Oh yeah, the thing with Marcy didn't last long. What an obnoxious bitch! I
got tired of hearing about her fucking cat real quick. How do you shut these
women up after you fucked them? That's a good question for the list!


I was going through my old archives and came across this old post you had
made back in '98 regarding walkups.

There have been a lot of cold walk-ups to report on, a number of
important lessons learned, and progress to report.

Firstly, I have revised my approach. I now make a decision between three
starting routines. I have been using the "stunning" (often using
"breathtaking" instead) line; saying something that relates to the
immediate situation (eg. commenting on what she is wearing, what is
happening at the moment, etc.) depending on the circumstances; or (and
still most frequent) "Aren't you...? You look exactly like...(here comes
the new revision)...someone I'd like to meet!" (instead of "someone I
always wanted to meet!"). If I do say so myself, I have gotten extremely
good at this last one. I have been repeatedly told that I am totally
convincing as if they looked like a friend of mine or someone else I
knew. I drag it out as long as possible ("say, Ray, doesn't she look know, it's amazing how much you look like this person... the
name is just escaping me for the moment...etc., etc.) and look directly
into her eyes. I lately find WITHOUT EXCEPTION that this is creating
rapport almost immediately! Whether they will continue a conversation
with me or not afterwards, (and Dr. Ray has remarked on how well this has
been going, how good the reactions have been) this technique brings them
right down to earth. You communicate with them immediately on a very
normal level as opposed to (which happens sometimes) her maintaining her
distance, being a bit snobby, etc.

The second "innovation" to this that I have been incorporating is in
response to the reaction I have gotten a few times on the street. A
number of times after I deliver the punch line, the body language» pulls
away and I can see immediate resistance. In order to try and overcome
this in the few moments you have (especially on the street), I say (when
I see this reaction) "you know, I understand that it may seem strange to
you that I would just come up to someone like this, but if a person
doesn't have a sense of humour and a bit of a sense of adventure they
wouldn't be of interest to me anyway." With this I challenge them to
look beyond the immediate and to put their fears aside, and by using the
third person I leave the door open that I am not necessarily talking
about them. So far I haven't had much results with this (usually the
ones pulling back tell me about the borefriend they have if they will
take the time to give any explanation) but I believe it will be effective
and will keep working on it.

I have also become more persistent when I do my walk-ups. I run through
a few borefriend destroyers: 1) I wouldn't tell you to just (bend to
their ear) forget about your boyfriend, (back to original position) I
just wouldn't suggest you just (bend again) do that now, and 2) I am sure
that he touches you deeply in those special places as I am sure you are
not the kind of person (nod up and down) who would just see someone until
something better comes along, and 3) I think that it is great that you
have found someone who you are going to spend the rest of your life with,
someone who you will see day after day, week after week, year after year,
and I would not want to disturb what you already have, but perhaps to add
to it. So far, I have not overcome the borefriend objection except
once. I went into Ogilvy's (a department store here downtown) and
started up with this really hot HB who was giving away perfume samples.
She has been with her borefriend for the last five years. When I said,
"well, time for a change" I could see that she sort of agreed with that
(non-verbally) and while she didn't want to give her phone number, she
let me know when she is working and the vibes were there. It was clear
by her overall communication that she was receptive to the idea.

Another objection I have run into is "I am sure I am too young for you"
to which I replied, "How do you know how young I like them?" Strangely
enough, by making a joke out of it, both times I used this recently it
just deflected the topic elsewhere.

Saturday night at Buona Notte (a bar/restaurant teeming with HB's here) I
was with Dr. Ray and two other friends. Comments on two of my approaches
managed to get back to me like "you sound like a Calgon commercial" and
(privately to Dr. Ray when I was away) that I sounded "unnatural." Dr.
Ray told me that he had this happen to him as well when he started using
SS and it took awhile to back off and find the balance between using
process language, patterns, and ordinary conversation so that it all
comes out natural. I gave this some serious thought and decided to tone
it down. This will be a process that won't change overnight but it is
important that I got this feedback. We walked across the street and
there were three attractive women sitting at a table with a window view
at Prima Donna Restaurant (also a very trendy place, usually filled with
HB's). I look at one of them from outside the restaurant and give her
the "don't I know you look?" I go in the restaurant, approach their
table and run through the routine. They all laugh and are very
receptive. They invite me to sit and join them and I end up with the
phone number from the one I approached. I hardly used any process
language this time and one of them remarked to me that they really liked
my style. It was interesting how they all seemed to agree with that last
comment yet had not discussed it amongst them (as if it was so obvious
that the one making the comment knew they all liked the way I was coming
across). Being flexible is very important, and you need to adapt when
you find yourself making mistakes.

Another interesting sidelight was that several women (including the three
just mentioned) all asked me if I was from Montreal. Why? Because guys
here just don't come up to women the way that I did. I was tempted to
tell them I learned it in the U.S., but thought better of it.

While I still don't approach women who are with guys, I have in the last
week approached several on the street (only the best looking babes), an
HB with her mother (also on the street), two hot babes in a bar who
turned out to be from Germany (they also turned out to be 17 years old),
women just walking in the shopping complex below the apartment building
that I live in, women in bars, restaurants, etc. I am breaking down the
limits of who I will approach and where to the point where I don't feel
any hesitation anymore. Nervousness is a thing of the past. Now I need
to improve my closing ratio which is obviously poor given how many
approaches I am making and how few closings I have had.

Erik Continues:
I thought it was a cool post.  After reading it, I became inspired to start
doing more walkups again and not caring so much about each individual girl.
I've been into SS a little over a year, and have done hundreds of walkups,
but I took a break from doing walkups a couple months ago and it's been a
challenge to get back into them.  I have this stupid belief that if I'm not
in the right state, then there's no use approaching... it always holds me
back!  Gotta junk that one.

So I did one the other day in The Gap. This hot early-20's looking babe was
picking out shirts, and my state was good so I walked up and said, "Excuse
me...(pause) obviously you're really attractive, but I was just curious to
meet you, to find out what you're really like.  My name is Erik."
She smiled and told me her name was Katy and we shook hands.
I said, "So are you just shopping for your daily wardrobe, or is this a
special indulgence for you (sp)?"
She chuckled and said, "My daily clothes.. Noooo...  These are for an event
coming up."
We fluffed for a couple minutes about that, then I said, "Well I just wanted
to let you know I'd be interested in talking to you sometime over coffee or
Boyfriend rejection.  I tried Ross's latest boyfriend destroyer, the one
about how he encourages people to ask themselves whether "he's filling a
role... or whether he's filling needs that come from deep inside who you
are..."  but my delivery was way off and she didn't go for it.

Anyway, I'm wondering if you still use that approach you mentioned in that
above post about "You look exactly like... someone I'd like to meet."  And
if so, what percentage of the time does it (or did it, when you WERE using
it) get a favorable response such as a laugh?

And also, if you wouldn't mind, I'd be curious to hear more about your
walkups strategies these days, as I'm looking for some more "boost" to get
me going on these again.  What kinds of approaches do you do, and how do you
usually lead the conversations after the opening introductions are made?

My Comment:  Lately I haven't been doing many approaches as my mind has been
focused on work and not women.  However, I have noticed that taking the time
off seems to have had a very interesting effect on my thinking processes
(which has resulted in some very exceptional responses and new behaviours)
and I hope to do some reporting about that in the next few months.


Since you are always asking for book reviews and never seem to have the time
or patience to sit down and read them, I hereby send you my short review and
long summary of "How To Make Love To A Woman" by Michael Morgenstern. I hope
you find it interesting.

With regards to your remark that many books would not available anymore, I
insist that many books that have been mentioned on the list are still
available, if not at Amazon, then at Barnes & Noble and vice versa. I hope
to complete a decent list of book reviews by other list members in a week or
so and will send that to you. Many online links may indeed have gone dead,
so I will include only those that have proven to still work, or perhaps none
at all.

How To Make Love To A Woman
Michael Morgenstern, with Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith
1982, 2000
$8 US at Amazon

A lawyer in the US by profession, Michael Morgenstern has written "How To
Make Love To A Woman" based on hundreds of short and long interviews with
women, and some men too. Since it was written in 1982, a lot of the advice
sounds outdated, and are things that should be known by now. Then again,
covering the basic do's and don'ts again won't hurt anyone. His casual style
of writing, including anecdotes and dialogues, make for easy reading. As can
be noticed by the length of the summary, I especially found chapter 11
"Learning from the Pros" of particular interest. The book, a 152 pages long,
can easily be read in one evening. When some of the advice is good and some
of it is useless, knowing which is which is the main problem to the reader.
A nice introduction to the world of romance, I rate the book a 6 out of 10.

1. What do women want?
Love and sex. Even though women are liberated, when it comes to romance they
want and desire the man to fulfill the women's needs, emotionally,
intellectually and physically. They want equality, which doesn't mean sexual
uniformity. With all changes in society, women want romance, courtship and
traditional sex roles, and the warmth and intimacy that these can bring.

2. No more macho, no more wimp
There are two stereotypes that women would be happiest to see die. The first
is the "Pedestal Syndrome" by which the author means that women are viewed
as pure beings and that sex will dirty them. Women do want sex. And losing
respect for a woman once she sleeps with a man will not make it an intimate
and positive experience. The "Possession Syndrome" is the idea that women
want to be taken, or even raped. While this may be a fantasy of some women,
it's just that, a fantasy. Stereotyping women and what they want is the
worst to do to make love spontaneously.

3. What women find sexy in a man
Physically, the most important elements are eyes, ass, flat stomach,
grooming, sexy voice.
Emotionally and intellectually, women prefer a man who has self-confidence,
intelligence and charm, who pays attention to her and makes her feel as if
she is the only and most beautiful woman in the world. Women like a men who
can express himself and his feelings and who is passionate for life and

4. Fears of flying
The author names a number of sexual fears and issues. Women are tired of men
of having to reassure men. But often too little reassurance is given to the
women. They fear not being attractive enough, not having the right breasts
(either too big or too small), or being used, and hence need reassurance.
Another fear of, especially inexperienced, women may be not knowing what do
what he asks for something. Alternately, worries about contraception may
play up. Finally, fear of commitment of both man and woman, can interfere
with getting intimate.

5. Courtship and Romance
Women expect to be courted and love romance. All the women Morgenstern spoke
with said they expect to be taken out by the men who are wooing them; they
said they expect a present from time to time; they long for these signs of
caring and affection. Being romantic is a matter of demonstrating how much
you care. In other words, make things personal -- call her, get her
inventive gifts.

6. Seduction and Arousal
Seduction is done by means of words and gestures and appeals to the
intellect and the emotions. Morgenstern describes arousal as the physical
(animalistic) part. Women will want to be aroused after the intellectual and
emotional needs have been met. If that's not the case, arousal feels like
nothing more than a irritating twitch.

7. Talking
Talking is imperative. Women love a man who knows how to talk. And every
moment has it's own appropriate things to be said. When you meet, when you
are walking by the lake, during foreplay, while you take off your clothes,
during sex, and afterwards as well. Don't go overboard, but do verbalize
what you especially appreciate about her.

8. Technique
Technique is good, performance mode is not. And surprise! Women love oral
sex -- to receive it anyway, but dislike to be coerced into giving it. Like
a good romance novel, sex comes in three parts, the beginning (foreplay),
the middle (actual intercourse and climax) and the end (afterplay). All of
it is important. As for positions, the best way to sum it up is to
experiment and find out what both lovers like best.

9. The big "O"
Three decades of psychological studies have confirmed that anxiety and fear,
more than any other factors, keep a woman from having an orgasm. Therefore,
it's essential that she be relaxed. The best way to help a woman relax is to
lavish her with time and affection, i.e. spend more time in bed. For most
women to come to orgasm, the clitoris, not the vagina, has to be stimulated
manually or orally.

Apart from the completely absence of anxiety and fears, a woman requires to
be thinking sexual thoughts. For example, if she's afraid the phone will
ring, she'll lose her sexual interest. One of the most prevalent fears is
the fear of performance -- the fear of not performing. Paradoxically, the
solution lies is not focusing on the performance, in her case having an
orgasm, but in enjoying all the attention, affection and bodily sensations
without expectations. You can help create the right conditions, so that she
can give herself an orgasm.

10. The spice of life
Women have rich fantasies (see Nancy Friday's My Secret Garden: Women's
Sexual Fantasies). Women would like men to be more adventurous and creative
in bed. Men are afraid to do so because of insecurity, being afraid of
seeming perverted and because men prefer to think of women they're involved
with as virginal -- even after years of sex. Morgenstern suggests the
following ideas for more adventure; mutual masturbation, taking Polaroid
pictures or video of yourselves, watching pornography and sex toys, i.e.

11. Learning from the Pros
The "Pros" Morgenstern refers to here are professional gigolos, all of whom
have very different approaches. One recommends using complements, starting
nice and simple "You smell terrific." and turning more heavy "This is
turning me on." or "I don't want this to stop." Take your time. Another
suggests that if you wake her up in the middle of the night, after you've
both had some sleep, the sex is really hot. Put a finger up her anus during
orgasm makes it more intense. Still another tells a woman that she should
tell him what to do. Even when she is reluctant to do so in the beginning,
most get into it. If they didn't have some desire to control things, they
wouldn't be paying for it. Just about every woman wants cunnilingus.

You must know when to let her take over. I am a big success because I let
her do it to me. Then you have to be ready if she wants you to take over. I
will try it -- I'll ask her to let me give the orders. I tell her to use her
mouth, or to do this or that with her tongue. Believe me, I let her know how
much pleasure she gives me. I tell her many many times how good she is to

Another's specialty is sexual massage, starting out as a regular massage
(back of the neck, calves, the small of the back), followed by
near-erogenous-zones (stomach, buttocks, inner thighs, ears, insides of the
elbows), and the erogenous zones (breasts, nipples, vagina). For the
nipples, put your two thumbs together in a line, with one nipple in between.
Then push the thumbs in opposite directions. Keep on doing that in different
positions, around and around the nipple. With the vagina, begin by
lubricating your hands. The first thing I do is press the tips of my thumbs
against the spot between the vagina and the anus. that, by itself, feels
really good. then I push my thumbs in a straight line right up to the inner
lips. Then I separate the thumbs, brushing them outward across the outer
lips. I bring them back to the inner lips, then back to the spot below the
vagina. I repeat that until she's so turned on she can't take it any longer.

If there's anything a woman likes, it's staying power, twenty or thirty
minutes or more, especially if she can have multiple orgasms. Orgasm is that
throbbing feeling you get when you come -- when you ejaculate-- but you
don't have to come to have that throbbing feeling. As a man, you can have
three, four, five orgasms before you come (ejaculate). In fact, you can
probably get it even more than that, but after three or four, I don't think
you get the same pleasure from the orgasm when you finally do come. It's a
technique that takes a lot of practice. When a man is about to come, the
muscles in the pelvis and legs are generally in a state of high tension. If
you consciously relax the muscles -- let the tension go, the sensations
become very intense. You can allow yourself to feel a deep throbbing that
approaches orgasm. In fact it is orgasm without ejaculation. Learning to
hold back and delay ejaculation without holding back sensations takes some
practice. But it has tremendous rewards.

12. Keeping love alive
The best kind of sexual relationship is two forces coming together and
reaching a kind of temporary harmony, a harmony that's stable, a positive
tension in balance, and still filled with energy. One source of tension is
fear of failure, like in the first time you sleep with someone. Others are
based on "push-pull" between two whole people who change roles. For these
dynamic roles Morgenstern suggests Dominant/Submissive,
Self-Confident/Vulnerable, Tender/Passionate and Familiar/Unfamiliar.

13. Sexual therapy
For men, the most common sexual problems are impotence and premature
ejaculation. The main culprits are fear and anxiety. Although in some cases
there is a physiological cause, like diabetes or too little arterial blood,
in the great majority of problems, the cause is psychological. Serious,
persistent sexual problems --even of psychological nature -- require the
help of a professional.

Strangely enough, women, especially young women, blame themselves for
erection problems. By far the best cure for impotence is to go to bed
consciously rejecting the possibility of having an erection and engaging in

In the case of premature ejaculation, the 'squeeze technique' is
complicated, but reasonably foolproof. If a man is about the ejaculate, he
can usually stop it by pressing his thumb against the frenum -- that's the
sensitive underside of the penis where the glans, or head, meets the shaft.
You need one or two finders on the other side for leverage, but all you have
to do is just squeeze a little, not too hard. It only takes a few seconds.
You can do it yourself, or you can show your partner how to do it. Ask her
to stimulate you orally or manually. After she's learned to time her
squeezes pretty carefully, she can mount you from the top and insert your
penis in her vagina, with her fingers grasping the base of the penis. This
first stage is just penetration, not intercourse. Let her control the
motions, the in and out, to relieve you of all responsibility. Man-on-top
positions are out. When you're about to ejaculate, she should withdraw your
penis and apply the squeeze. After a while, you'll be able to hold an
erection much longer without ejaculating.

14. A living fire
I'm still trying to convey something of the mystery that takes place when
two people love each other. When you touch a woman you love, I think you
make a link that's much more than just physical. It's as if your fingers are
rooted in her body. There's an immediate connection. It's like energy
passing from you into her, and it gives every movement, every sensation,
every pleasure, an extra dimension. That certain something is what makes sex
into love and men into lovers.

15. Safe sex
HIV, precursor to AIDS, and Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD's, formerly
referred to as Venereal Disease VD's)  make it so that safe sex is a must.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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