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"To find her “spiritual center"

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To find her “spiritual center
2/10/01 8:42:20 AM Eastern Standard Time


Lately we've been fortunate to have GameMaster share some of his awesome
adventures with us.  But, lest you all think that this is easy or that it
works every time for some of us, read the following:

I have some horror stories. I only send you the good stuff : ))
I have good days and bad. Last night was the reverse of the night before and
so on and so forth. I've been on streaks when I could do no wrong and I've
experienced weeks at a time when things just didn't click. Last night was
a good example. I went back to Fairview still radiant from an almost perfect
night before. Couldn't seem to get it together. The difference was I wasn't
state and for some reason I couldn't summon it back up. Had this one chick
that was incredible, read her palm, accurately told her how many siblings
she had, nailed some other stuff. She was totally fascinated....right up to
the point where some Guido with a Mr. T starter kit walks up, offered her
a job making $20k a month, and then walked out with her. Sort of threw
off my rhythm. Got flamed by two more chicks before I finally called it
an evening. One was that flake Trish that I had told you about. I think
on to my game! It's important I think for a lot of the new guys to
understand that even an experienced PUA is gonna have days when the pieces
just don't seem to come together.


Closing tip from Max:  Max will, after making out with a girl for a while,
take her hand and lick between her fingers as if he's eating her out.  Seems
to work like a charm.


One of the common things I will do when I go to a strip club is lots of
fractionation early on.  I usually start with something fun and lite.  Then
either give her some deep insight into herself, teach her something, or
discover some strong common interest shared passion that bonds us, or talk
about something deep that she normally doesn't share with people.  Usually,
go through all of the above at some point during my time with a dancer.

Halbster on Mystery's comments: ("I lovingly disagree on this point.  I
believe it isn't MONEY nor LOOKS but ... SOCIAL PROOF that they want. They
want to SHOW YOU OFF. They would like all the other girls feeling JEALOUS
that she has YOU.  So - if you were on her arm and she brought you to the
club's daytime Christmas party (like the one I went to - the club was closed
to the public) you should be able to mingle and impress all the girls so
they later say, "your guy is AWESOME."  If you can convey that sort of thing
when you meet a stripper, you are good to go."):

Halbster:  Like other gals, many dancers desire Social Proof.  However, you
need to pay attention to the individual gals.  Even if they desire it, they
might achieve social proof in different ways.  Many dancers who want social
proof, and most who don't care about social proof want something
else....They want you to give them the feeling of validating themselves.
This is
especially true if she has issues about being a dancer, dancer stereotypes,
or is embarrassed by a lack of education or something else in her

Halbster on Mystery's comments: ("My general rule is: NO KINO ON STRIPPERS.
Later at your house sure, but not in the club.  AND - when they touch YOU,
YOU act like you don't really like being touched.  Pull away gently and
consistently.  Remember, they use KINO tactics all the time - it means
NOTHING to them."):
Halbster:  Many dancers are heavily responsive to Kino in the club or out.
You need to be able to calibrate.  Sometimes this is all it takes.  However,
be aware of the club rules and especially the individual woman's rules about
touching.  Also, especially at the better clubs, many dancers don't want the
other dancers to know they're hooking up with a customer.  There are many
reasons for this and I don't feel like typing them.

Halbster on Mystery's comments: ("Almost always!  OR - they pick something
ACADEMICALLY LARGE - nurse, lawyer, doctor, architect or some other UNLIKELY
occupation.  Usually they SAY this but don't MEAN it.  Or they THINK they
will ... once they decide to go back to high school first, ha ha."):

Halbster:  Yes, some of them make up stories.  However, many of them really
are going to school or doing something with their life.  I know several
strippers/former dancers who have made it through graduate school, and I
know one former dancer who is now academically ranked in the top 10 in her
medical college class.  How about a couch dance Dr  :)  I'd feel a lot

Halbster on Mystery's comments: ("Interesting but still, too many guys do
this.  Attempt something even MORE original.  A girl will meet a rowdy guy
like this at least once a week.  This adds up to you appearing like a FUN
but not overly original GUY.  Notice how they will FAKE LAUGH as if this was
the first time this ever happened to them.  I like the 'throwing her for a
though.  This is called ZIG ZAG theory.  She is on a program - a
conversation thread she KNOWS well.  "Would you like a dance?" is her
opener.  Instead of answering YES or NO ... which are the only two
contingencies in her interactive conversation, you should ZIG ZAG. This
means, DON'T answer her question.  Give her something completely DIFFERENT
from the expected ... "Oh, gawd, I'm not even HERE right now.  Guess what
happened to me?  Have you ever seen the movie Willow?  You know Mad
Mortigan?  What's the real actor's name?  Val Kilmer ... yeah I just had
lunch with him and his publicist.  He is a very cool guy. Getting
surprisingly old though."):

Halbster:  Yes, some other guys might do it, but it is how you pull it off,
and you don't always have to be the most original guy in the world.  More
seductions start with a Hi, Hello or some similar word than probably any
other way.  Acting distracted, i.e. watching the TV talking with your buddy
fine so long as you don't do it so much that they can't approach.  Zig Zags
are fine at some points.  I think they're more useful later on.  The first
goal is merely to engage her.  Get her attention.  Do so in a way that
invites further interaction.  I personally would not use that Mad Mortigan
thing because:
1) I don't like to lie  (I think when I tell them things like we snuck out
prison to be here they know I'm joking)
2) I don't think it empowers me when I am drooling over a celeb.  It reminds
me of supplication.
3) I think many dancers wouldn't buy a lie about knowing celebs, and many
others wouldn't care because they're used to meeting celebs.  Yes, there are
a few star-wannabes that will get excited.  However, they might want to just
use you to get to your contact.  I think dancers might chalk this up to
another guy bragging and trying to impress them.
Even when it is clear that I want to seduce them and I expect to seduce
I never make it seem like I want to or have to impress them.  My seduction
based more on our common bonds, we have fun together, and we can give each
other wonderful feelings.
However, your point about not being here is a good topic for discussion.
Many dancers are mentally someplace else when they dance.  In fact, I know
one dancer who doesn't drink unless she is stripping.  She starts her shift
with 2 shots of tequila.  She also wears a wig.  These are tools for
borders between the club and her outside world.  Many dancers like to assume
a separate identity in the club.

Halbster on Mystery's comments: ("Consider not saying your STAGE name is BO,
just your NAME ... but make the name VERY CURIOUS.  Later on you may say, "I
have a secret ... are you trustworthy?  My real name is Joe."  REMEMBER
PUA's, don't ask the girl for her real name.  It's lameass.  Just don't ASK
for a name at all.  If a normal girl asks for your name, she is curious
about you.  If a stripper does, she is trying to remember it so she can call
you by your name and increase the rapport to scam cash from you.  Make your
REAL name hard to get."):
Halbster: Yes, most of the time I don't ask for her name very quickly.  I
let her ask for my name.  I make her earn it.  After she gets my stage name
she has to earn my real name, and give me her real name.  Early on I don't
push for their real names.  I also think if you wait a while before
exchanging names
you'll both remember each other's names better.

Halbster on Mystery's comments: ("Challenges are good, sexual conversational
threads are bad - why?  'cause they heard it ALL!"):

Halbster: Big assumption.  However, these conversational threads usually
aren't the best place to begin.  The whole thing about the Monk challenge
however goes well because they think of it more as laughing and joking, and
they usually haven't heard that before.

Note that I rarely go to strip clubs anymore because I am very protective of
my personal energy and how environments affect me.  My attitude is I don't
just want to shield my energy, I want to immerse myself in environments that
enhance my energy.  Most strip clubs and many strippers give me an itchy
feeling if I don't make a very deliberate effort to protect my energy.  Most
of my comments are based upon past adventures in clubs, and being with
strippers outside of clubs.  I have been best friends with a dancer for many
years, and I have other friends who dance.  The dancers that I am closest
with I've met outside of the titty bars.


Thanks for the list of books.
I reformatted it slightly for my own purposes, and it occurred to me that
you might like to have the reformatted version, so I'm including it as an
The main thing is that I regenerated the table of contents after first
converting the titles to Word's Header Style format--this means the table of
is now "clickable". I.e., you can click any title in the TOC and jump to the
corresponding review of that book. Other than that, I just gave it a
footer and made the body text Times Roman, because serif fonts are easier
for the eyes to "process" when there's more than one line of text. Thanks
again and I hope the clickable contents proves handy to you or your other

My Comment:  If anyone wants the reformatted book review list, just
drop me an email.


I'm smiling big as I write this... In answer to the question of "Are women
from the internet hot?" I have to just say...
Once you learn how to separate the gem from the matrix, the internet is a
fucking GOLDMINE of women.

I haven't made many comments about this (because Riker is the king, and I
can tell you from the experience of knowing him as a friend, seeing his
whole methodology in person myself, etc. that he is truly the master) but
met many women from the internet... and thanks to Riker, I've learned how to
quickly get to the point and find out if they're hot.

Here's the deal: Online, you have to FIRST COMMUNICATE WITH WORDS, THEN WITH

This gives you a MAJOR advantage over the real world, because you can get
into a super hot woman's head and heart before you have to deal with the
whole 'looks' issue.

Now then, at first I did meet some hefty bovine creatures because I didn't
know what the fuck I was doing... BUT, after learning the landscape I've
dated many women that I've met online... and I've met some HOTTIES.

One of the women that I've been seeing for a few months now is probably one
of the 3 hottest women that I've EVER personally met... and I'm not just
trying to sound cool here (if I do sound cool, that's OK with me, too).
She's 5'10 and had the best natural body that you can imagine on a woman...
I mean a fucking total stunner. She's also young, highly intelligent, the
best dresser I've ever met, classy beyond belief, and likes to stay home and
enjoy 'time alone' far more than going out, spending money, etc. Now, I live
in a place where a lot of models and other beautiful women live, and
wherever I go, she is ALWAYS the hottest woman in the place, period.
Everyone stops talking when she walks into a room. (Did I mention that she's

Point is, guess where I met her? Right, right... and guess what? She
contacted ME FIRST!!! Oh, you gotta love that.

My last girlfriend (who was bisexual) was an internet gal... she had a
personal ad up that I responded to. (She looked a lot like Denise Richards,
only she liked to have sex with women...)

Oh yes, my brethren... verily I say unto thee, the internet is a place
where the playing field begins to level... where you, too can perform

By the way, to all of the guys that are taking the time to write out
complete stories, methods, etc... my applause and gratitude... this is
truly some great stuff. Thank you.


> (Halbster's comments continue, and Mystery's comments follow):
> "Strippers:
GameMaster: Halbster has certainly done his homework on strippers. Couldn't
have said it better myself. The only thing he left out.....get to know your
bartenders ands tip them well. Make them a buddy and make them believe you
are as cool as you think you are. Tell them stories, the more over the top
the better, and bring them into your confidence. Bartenders are
insiders.  Bartenders can pretty much have their pick of the girls if
they're cool and those are the ones you want on your side. Trust me on this
one. They will
save you a lot of time and effort and the extra few bucks when you get
your tab will come back to you. And BTW, never, ever fucking ever sit
in the pit. You have just declared yourself a customer and are fair game
for these mercenaries. Always go to the bar. And you will probably find
that there are some other cool guys up there that are worth meeting and
getting to know. That's how I met my current wingman so it pays to be
open to that kind of thing. Besides, you want the girls to see you having
a good time when you're not in their company. Find one club that is a
comfortable hunting ground, establish yourself, take your props from the
bartender and keep plowing ahead.
> Mystery's Comments on above: I disagree with the "allow them to see you
> and go several times" notion.  I think it's a "one and done" sort of
> You # close or instant date them after closing or forget it.  To be seen
> again and again is to be grouped into the REGULAR CUSTOMER thing even if
> weren't THEIR customer.

Not so. I had two strippers living with me for a year and they always told
me that a "hit and run" approach works best for them...builds intrigue. If
are there hanging out from 8-closing you are a customer. If you come in and
hang out for a short while, get in your shots and get the fuck out of there
you will be amazed at the response you get on your subsequent return visits
if you have implanted the fact that you are different. One more thing, it's
OK to tip these girls onstage. You may have to do that to get their
anyway. I'm very selective with my targets and I tip $5...anything less and
you are cheap motherfucker. Employees at the club can get away with
a buck. My opinion is, you can't. It's the cost of a beer and you have
just singled yourself out from the rest of the herd. But never tip them more
than once on any given night unless she just got done blowing you in the
parking lot.
And this probably goes without saying on this list, but the number one thing
you have to remember if you're gonna work the strip clubs is "be cool". If
don't know what that means then stay the fuck out of these clubs. You're
wasting your time and these girls will get deep in your pockets. These
chicks live and thrive in a world of cool where anything goes, and they base
their associations on an instant judgment of whether you meet the criteria.
You pay too much attention to them and you're not cool. You spend money on
them and you are not cool. You walk around with your tongue dragging the
floor and you are not cool. Dress the part, act the part, and be aloof. And
be patient, they will come around. And unless you are an extremely hot guy
that women flock too, don't try and set any expectations when you go there.
Just go in and have fun and enjoy yourself. Don't expect you're gonna pull
one of these babes out of there cause it's tough to do. They don't do lunch
and they've been invited to do everything from yachting to skydiving and
trips to the islands so you better come with some fuckin' game. You got to
get them out of that club 'cause they are safe there. I've found one of the
best angles if your up to it is to get them to meet you for breakfast when
they get off. Where I live it's like a ritual. All these strippers go out
2-3 nights a week to grab a bite and that's a great place to sink your hook.
I used to put Sinatra on the juke and pull them up on the table to dance
with me. Now it might pay to be a
regular and work that out with the guys on duty and make sure they don't
let anyone else steal your show. I've had girls tell me that was the coolest
thing they've ever done. Just try not to fall off the table : )
> (Mystery comments on GameMaster's comments):
> Mystery: I like the church thing ... I'm a humanist (atheist) yet see the
> benefits of this.

I know I'm gonna get struck down for this but a few weeks ago I heard
that the hottest singles club in town was at a local church. This is not one
of your run of the mill churches either. Seats 8,000 and it's a packed house
every Sunday and there are hot fucking women all over the place. The first
week I went with my wingman to check it out. We walked up and down
looking for someone to share this wonderful experience with : ) then
I found her. Kathy, a blonde Amazon, about 32. Had just gone through
a divorce and was there to find her "spiritual center". I dove into the
pew next to her, introduced myself and began mirroring her throughout
the entire service. And as I was doing that, I was making notes of
patterns in the bulletin for use later on the church chicks. Kathy wound
up accepting a lunch invitation and she gave us the whole scoop on the
singles network. Friday's they have a get together with about 400 in
attendance. I am now a member of the "Divorce and Separation" recovery
group. Lambs to the fucking slaughter, dude. I have always sung the praises
of church pussy and a friend recently asked me why, and I replied "Cause
church pussy ain't never been anywhere, it don't know what it's doing, but
it's dying to learn" and that is the honest to God's truth. Ya'll pray for
me willya : )))))
> Antony:
> I've been asked for an e-massage.  Could you put out the word for any
> creative writers to have a go soon, please?  I'm going to try to write a
> pattern myself, as practice is the way forward, but I'd also appreciate
> other people's contributions/efforts.

GameMaster: Antony, try another angle on this. Rather than a direct
approach, tell her a story about two fictitious characters. Use your
imagination. They could be reunited lovers who met on holiday or some shit
like that. I just finished a masterpiece for my Ex for this fucking occasion
next week that I hate but when she reads this she will go nuts thinking of
ways to get her hands on me again. Send me a private reply and I'll help you
with the
wordsmithing. Should be a good excercise.


Bro Warrior:
If you haven't read it yet, I strongly recommend Ishtar Rising and Sex,
Drugs and Magick both by Robert Anton Wilson.
If you don't know who RAW is, he's a super intelligent writer who calls
himself a guerilla oncologist - he sets out to change the way you think
about the World, and he's very good at it.  For those of you who are
NLP'ers, RAW is often a special guest trainer on Richard Bandler's
Trainings.  He used to be the editor for Playboy, and says things like
"Religious wars are two people fighting over who's imaginary friend is
better" and "I used to be an atheist but I gave up because I had nothing to
say when I was getting a blowjob."

Ishtar Rising - Book of the Breast - gives amazing coverage of sex through
the ages, the effects of different religious views on sex, societical views
on sex and how they effect men, and how to get your self out of that
headspace (super liberating - esp. if you have a church background!!)

Sex, Drugs and Magick - charts the different wild experiences possible
through combinations of narcotics and magical rituals - a totally
fascinating book - and his use of language is supreme.

Other awesome books, which are less directly related to seduction, but none
the less, really useful in understanding the
World/psychology/people/reality, also by RAW which I'd strongly recommend
- Prometheus Rising
- Cosmic Trigger I, II & III


Reply to MAX: I believe you are seriously mentally masturbating.  The
excuse of 'letting her PROCESS' is AFC.  You've made yourself a ...
friend.  If you were to ask her if she would like to make love, what do
you THINK she would say?  If you think, after all this time with her,
that she would say NO, then GIVE IT the fuck UP.  Next time you see
her, start SEDUCING HER for a change.

Flyer (Commenting to Sisonpyh):
"For instance, I was having my first phone conversation with a5'11
Elite Model today that I met on AOL a couple of days ago...she was trying to
act. . . . . "Out of no disrespect for Sisonpyh, but did he actually meet
with this chyckafter he met her online?? As cool as the internet is, it
seem to me that no real HB would have anything to do with the web. Of course
one can see the occasional HB putting herself in an online personals like to the highest bidder, putting in her photo and all her INCOME
requirements for her mate -- i.e. simply a hot chyck using the web
for gold digging purposes.
>as a PUA who has fucked several online chicks (just as bonus rounds) I must
>disagree with you.  My current LTR was an online girl for instance.  None
>of them were 'gold digging'.  GOLD DIGGERS are SOCIAL PROOFERS in real life
>anyways.  Just make them feel like your are SPECIAL and they will DESIRE to
>be with you.  Its not about MONEY ... its about ENVY.

Usually the chycks on the web are a fucking mess. My advice to those who
want to use the web: don't believe what any chyck tells you about what she
looks like until you actually meet her face-to-face. I have friends who have
horror stories to tell!

Mystery on above: Well, it's your hearsay against my personal experience.  I
believe your advice stems from a fear of the unknown.  Gentlemen, online
girls are AOK - but don't think that getting online girls makes you a PUA.
are just bonus rounds.  Get out and meet girls in REAL LIFE, too.  And
unless you MEET the online girls in real life, it's mental masturbation
only.  There is NO such thing as an online pickup.  The PU does not
occur 'til you MEET them!


> Ron (response to Alan):
> Thanks for your excellent response to my post on Clifford's list.
> Frankly, you hit EVERYTHING right on the head.  I DO NOT
> recommend my strategy to someone who is needy sexually,
> emotionally, spiritually or whatever.  If you are needy you will
> have problems.

Thanks Ron. I'd rephrase this slightly: if you are needy you are taking on

There is the risk that the first escort you get is unsympathetic,
even somewhat hostile, and the encounter leaves you feeling more
powerless and depressed than before.

There is the risk that the escort suits you only too well, and it's
just so tempting to fall for her, as discussed.

There is the risk that the satisfying sex takes the edge off your
motivation to learn seduction skills, and to get it on with straight women.

There is the risk that escort sex becomes an expensive addiction,
a way for the client to blot out the pain in his life.

And there is the risk of inadvertent conditioning, as discussed.

Still, I can imagine cases where a guy feels so deprived - of
touch, sex, social contact with women - and feels so down about
continual failure with chicks, that contact with an escort, as a
last resort, helps stabilize the guy in the short term, and allows
him to make progress with straight women.
> I do know that MY progress in SS over the past few weeks has been
> great. I'm using the languaging even in daily interactions with
> people, I do have a female friend who I'm "sarging" for practice
> and learning alot about how I say and do things, dealing with the
> responses etc.

Sounds like you're on your way. And don't forget, as they say on
ASF, to chase ten others :-)


On Alphawill:
I'm from Hollywood/L.A., land of beautiful actress-types, Defensive,
Bitch-Shielded and Goldigging Blind-Ambition-eyed Demons.  I've seen Sweet
girls move here and within 3 months develop all the skills of their
hardened, older washed-out, disappointed sisters!  You have to be good - no
make that great - to operate in these seas, Ross and Mystery certainly bear
testament to that! Hanging at coffeeshops, and bars I would watch crash
after crash of regular fellas and crash hard myself even using heavy
patterns, eye contact, kino and every form of takeaway.  Can't move away
'cause of the nature of work I do. I work in film, dress well, drive a
Porsche, look good for a heavier fella (230).  I'm ranting, but I just want
to expose the true nature of LA for average Joe's like me! I think we get
caught in an catch-22 whirlwind,of not scoring and desperation starts to
reek through our pores even with all the Jedi
mindtricks we try to pull on ourselves!


Alpha,  I totally feel for you dude.  I just moved here from Austin, Texas,
and the women there are pretty much what-you-see-is-what-you-get.  So far
I've had experiences with some crazy-ass bitches and some more worthy women,
and I agree, many people here are all about using, abusing and playing
destructive mindgames.  One time I actually told one of them that for all I
knew I couldn't trust her (we were discussing someone else too), and she
responded, 'Yeah, but I'm the one who told you to be careful out here,
because this isn't Texas.'  The next day I caught in a bold-face lie to me
(although I didn't bother telling her I knew), and I just laughed my ass
off.  Fortunately my intuition about her from the beginning alerted me to
her lack of trustworthiness.

But you know what, if ANY of what she's told me about her past experiences
is true, then she probably feels justified in taking it out against a
helpless bumpkin from Texas.  So I let her go on about her way, and I've
gone on about mine, but I can sort of understand how ANYONE out here, man,
woman or whatever, might get jaded, bitter or a bit paranoid about the
seduction scene.  Maybe someone else will have some good insights to share
with us, but in the meantime, my plan is to sharpen my intuition,
calibration and criteria for trust, mental stability, lack of diseases etc,
and wear some big fat condoms.

Write me if you want a fellow brethren to kick with.


(Commenting on Mystery's comments):
> Mystery's Comments on above: I disagree with the "allow them to see you
>  and go several times" notion.  I think it's a "one and done" sort of
>  You # close or instant date them after closing or forget it.  To be seen
>  again and again is to be grouped into the REGULAR CUSTOMER thing even if
>  weren't THEIR customer.

Actually Mystery we are in complete agreement.  Upon reading that again I
realize that I didn't communicate come and go clearly.  I don't mean going
the club on multiple days.  Come and go can be accomplished merely by doing
things like going to the bathroom and returning again, or going outside for
a minute and re-entering.  Incidentally, for those who do selling,
MLM or other types of home selling this is a very useful tactic.
> Mystery: I lovingly disagree on this point.  I believe it isn't MONEY nor
>  LOOKS but ... SOCIAL PROOF that they want. They want to SHOW YOU OFF.
>  would like all the other girls feeling JEALOUS that she has YOU.  So - if
>  you were on her arm and she brought you to the club's daytime
>  Christmas party (like the one I went to - the club was closed to the
>  public) you should be able to mingle and impress all the girls so they
>  later say, "your guy is AWESOME."  If you can convey that sort of
>  thing when you meet a stripper, you are good to go.

Mystery, we have yet to disagree.  And, this includes my comments on the
hand model neg hit.  I do believe that can work on some hot women some of
the time.  I'm just offering another method that I believe can work better.
method also conforms to a personal rule that I like to follow.  I like to
seduce woman by building them up rather than tearing them apart.  Note that
building them up doesn't mean kissing their derriere or putting them above
you.  Sometimes, you can empower yourself by empowering other people.  RJ,
Bishop, and Major Mark are all masters at that.
> Mystery: My general rule is: NO KINO ON STRIPPERS.  Later at your house
>  sure, but not in the club.  AND - when they touch YOU, YOU act like you
>  don't really like being touched.  Pull away gently and consistently.
>  Remember, they use KINO tactics all the time - it means NOTHING to
>  them.

An occasionally pull away when they touch you is nice for adding a
Another similar tactic is to allow them to touch you and totally ignore it.
Very often they will ramp up what they do because they are seeking a
response.  My comments on touching refer to how you touch them rather than
how they touch you.
> Mystery: Again, watch for the fake laugh - but if she's new, it's fun.

Mystery, you might be right about this.  Perhaps, I just intuitively sense
who I can do this with because this is just one example of many approaches
that I use.


Fuck the remainings of respect you caress for women and sharpen your
compassion. That doesn't mean I want you to eagerly kill your habitual warm
(sp) kindness and let your inner aggressiveness thrive. I mean I can get
whatever I want when I can understand the dole to come. When you, for
example, want a woman to give a fuck she must k(no)w or better feel that's
right for her.
Respect is per definitionem reviewing one's AFCness. I will hit delete and
don't let a memory or fear keep me from realizing my dreams in any
perspective, it is me who represents myself all the time. This covers
fat'n'ugly people as well as babes who also communicate toward the world
what they conceive themselves (respect  yourself) to be. When shooting for
the stars I don't mind hitting the moon.
I cannot post that. I am no PUA. So here is the questions our pros can put
below the comment:

1. I am highly emotional, how can I handle distrust? I mean the feeling that
my leg is being pulled in the long run with someone, how can I impede that.

2. I am never alone having a problem to tell people to piss off as blatant
as needful.

3. Some more general ideas on bodyspeak?

4. More adverbs?

My Comment:  Huh?

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***[email protected]***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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