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"I was almost as shocked as she was"

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I was almost as shocked as she was
2/16/01 10:21:15 AM Eastern Standard Time


An instant orgasm device?  Sure it sounds like it belongs in an "Austin
Powers" screenplay, but for millions of women with sexual dysfunctions,
one doctor's chance discovery is nothing to laugh at.


Here's another penis enlargement book for sale, this one offered by a doctor
and claiming to be quite different (with a money back guarantee) than the
others:  Anyone buying this should send a
review here.  And there's another one at


Guys in LA who're talking about the whole LA scene -- I live in Hollywood
and I know the scene pretty well and can give some advice on LA women.
E-mail me if you want to meet up on Sunset and pull some numbers.
 dst***g@ho***.com[ ? ]


Those of you who've been around Cliff's list, the SS list or other groups
a while know that I believe in seduction that empowers women.  I don't
believe in being the jerk that women love.  I believe in honest,
straightforward, practical empowerment that works by inducing wonderful
feelings in yourself and others.  I believe that anyone can get great
with this approach.  The more I seduce the more I realize there is no such
thing as a 1 nite stand.  Our communication and our behaviors may affect
people long after we are gone.  Here is a story that powerfully illustrates
how a person was affected by one date.

Recently I was talking with a 31 year old attractive woman friend.  She
a friend of mine.  She was talking about getting a nose job.  She told me
that she is very self conscious about her big nose. This captured my
curiosity so I decided to do some probing.  I learned that when she was a
freshman in college she went on one date with some guy who told her that she
had a really beautiful face except for one thing...her nose is too big.
Note, that I said "one date" because that guy didn't get another date.
Before this asshole told her his opinion, she thought her nose was fine.  In
fact, I think her nose is fine.  Her nose fits her face very well, and it
a cute shape.  For over 10 years she was made self conscious because he
decided to use a neg hit.
This neg hit jerk didn't know her full history.  As a baby, Lucy's eye was
blinded and disfigured by an accident.  Children made fun of her calling her
Cyclops and similar names.  Despite this handicap Lucy managed to excel at
many things, and made friends.  When Lucy was 13 she was at the mall with
her friends when some girl about 16 started shouting "Oh my God.  Gross,
at her eye."  Needless to say Lucy became very self conscious about her eye.
Lucy decided to get her eye enucleated, but she had to wait until she was
16.  The doctors gave Lucy a magnificent fake eye.  It matches her other
eye.  People can't tell the difference.  Finally, for the first time in her
life, Lucy got to be pretty.  And, yes, she was very pretty.  Unfortunately
for Lucy she only  got to enjoy being pretty for about a year or two before
this asshole had to go digging up her scar.  These are powerful tools.


> Mystery Comments on: ("If you don't know what that means then stay the
> out of these clubs. You're wasting your time and these girls will get deep
> in your pockets.  These chicks live and thrive in a world of cool where
> anything goes,and they base their associations on an instant judgment of
> whether you meet the criteria.  You pay too much attention to them and
> you're not cool. You spend money on them and you are not cool. You walk
> around with your tongue dragging the floor and you are not cool. Dress the
> part, act the part, and be aloof. And be patient, they will come around.
> unless you are an extremely hot guy that women flock too, don't try and
> any expectations when you go there.  Just go in and have fun and enjoy
> yourself. Don't expect you're gonna pull one of these babes out of there
> cause it's tough to do. They don't do lunch and they've been invited to do
> everything from yachting to  skydiving and trips to the islands so you
> better come with some fuckin' game.You got to get them out of that club
> 'cause they are safe there. I've found one of the best angles if you're up
> to it is to get them to meet you for breakfast when they get off. Where I
> live it's like a ritual. All these strippers go out 2-3 nights a week to
> grab a bite and that's a great place to sink your hook."):
> See, and I think the best time to sink the hook is the next day when they
> wake up at 1 pm.  They are naturally drugged, haa.  And will complain how
> they are all puffy and ugly.  You tell then they will join you while you
> get some chores done together.
> Her: "You must get a lot of women."
> Yep, I got that yet again last night at a club.  Asian cutie.  I simply
> downplayed it ... minimized it but there was a little damage from it ... I
> don't have a PERFECT SHUTDOWN for this conversational obstacle.  I know
> I fucked up somewhere (didn't plug SHYNESS into my set, etc) and this is
> error on my part if I even GET this reaction.  I mean POOR ME ... she
> ANY GIRL would want me ... but it's still damage and I need damage
> Anyone with some solutions, gentlemen?

I always emphasize that I am looking for "Quality, not quantity."   You can
also reflect it back at them by pointing out "you are pretty attractive
(great to deflate the egomaniacs a bit), I bet you have all sorts of
guys (point away) crawling all over you..." and they'll sometimes say "
not the good ones" or "yeah, losers". If they are sharp, they'll catch
it, but you may have to explain it.  It works as a screening tool too,
I'm not into women with a low self esteem, and if they don't respond
favorably to this challenge, see ya...


I met with my friend to pick his brain a little more
and get these questions answered. FYI we are
refering to the kind of chick that is always hard to reach,
has plans, won't commit to meeting, doesn't show
strong interest, etc., etc., but doesn't verbalize disinterest.
> Ross:
>  >Vinigarr:
>  > > Here are a couple of topics I'd like to see comments on:
>  > > The Roll of Persistence
>  >
>  >A friend of mine (has been with over 500 women) said
>  >that the roll of persistence has been the key in
>  >seducing all the women he has been with.
>  >
>  >He says that unless a woman tells him
>  >"don't call me any more" he will continue to
>  >call her and pitch for the meet. His rationale
>  >is, if she doesn't tell him to stop calling,
>  >then there is some interest, and persistence is
>  >what overcomes the resistance.
>  Actually, looked at from a Magickal perspective, as long as the
>  person is resisting, then on SOME level of their mind there is a
>  representation of you. In other words, RESISTANCE is not the same as
>  completely putting you out of their mind. There IS a mental link in
>  there, somewhere.
>  Someone once wrote about suggestion; at first they (suggestions) are
>  resisted....then tolerated...then accepted...
>  The catch is to keep rules of respect running......what happens if
>  these women blow him off, cancel on him, say "yes" verbally but "no"
>  with their actions. Does he keep coming back WITHOUT calling them on
>  it? I surely hope not. That isn't just resisting on their part, that

He does call them on it, yet doesn't close the door on himself with
any harsh take-away or nexting. He'll call them later that night and ask
 "what happened to you.. you were
supposed to meet me..? " and wait for the response. He says any excuse
whatsoever shows her motive is to keep him interested. He says
"the reason anyone would give an excuse, is to insure that you
don't think any less of them. When you're late for work, you make sure
you give a good excuse so that you are not fired. In essense, you
Bang, now they are supplicating to you". Next, he'll respond with "I
something like that happened, I know you were excited to meet" and then
talk about X (what she missed out on, etc.), then say "we can do it again,
another time ...K" and wait for an answer. Then he'll change the subject to
something innocuous like "Did you hear that Jennifer Lopez may testify in
court for
Puff Daddy ????" and get into
some fluff talk. They will chat a little, then he will cut her off/wind
" Ohh, I just remembered... there's something I want to do... I'm gonna
have to let you go .. I'll give you a call some time" and hang up.
>  >He says using this tactic they either become a customer
>  >or tell him to get lost, which is only about 10% of the time.
>  What about stand-ups, flaking, cancellations? Hmmm?????

He'll go through the above routine ending the call without pitching for a
meet. He says the next call he is starting clean, and pitches for a meet
If he gets a yes, he'll set a time and place and end the call with "see ya
If he gets a no, he'll say " ok.. fine.. well, I gotta let you go.. I'll
and call every week or so until she agrees to meet or until he gets a "don't
call me anymore". He hasn't been stood-up more than one time.
If they were to flake on him a second time, which hasn't happened,
he would next them.
>  >AND how many guys have the balls
>  >and ability to maintain composure after getting blown off a few times..
>  >I am strong, I know what I want, and I go for it.. my persistence shows
>  >my beliefs."
>  What if she seriously disses him as well as resists?

What be considered a serious diss?

When he gets a cancellation, flake, etc., he'll let them know he
This lets them know he won't fly off the handle and that he's safe.
He said he's also creating a history with them, a relationship based on
and revolving around the idea that they have lives and he's OK with that.
He said "I got along fine without them and I am fine if they can't make
a meet".

I think it's supplication to continue calling someone
after you've been blown off.  I am quick to call them
on it and take away the opportunity for them. Yet most
of the time that doesn't get them off the fence.
He says "eventually they come around, you just
gotta be persistent".  Since it works for him, I may try it


Virtually guaranteed ways to get laid:
1.  Be famous
2.  Make lots of money.

What is it specifically about these two things that are so attractive and
desirable to women?

1.  "Be famous."  An obvious one is the tremendous social proof.  Also the
cynosure effect is at work.  Famous people tend to be rich (#2).  They tend
to be perceived as better looking and attractive because they are famous.
Famous people often capture women's imaginations, actors, singers, etc.
Anything else?

2.  "Make lots of money."  Here, automatic social proof is also engaged.  If
he is wealthy, well, he must be good or better, etc.  Security.  I'm sure
there's more, I just can't think of anything else.  If anybody has any more
input on this, I'd like to know.

So, knowing this, as skilled SS'ers, PUA's, nlpers, hypnotists, what are
what I'm saying?  Anybody out there use any techniques to capitalize on
this?  What ways can we steal these MAJOR anchors?  How can we steal all the
"things" that "being famous" does for a woman?  How can we steal all the
"feelings/things" that "being wealthy" does for a woman?  Does what I'm
asking make any sense?

How can we, effectively steal everything that a very famous, very wealthy
man could give to a woman, and link it to ourselves, so that there is
essentially ZERO difference between us and a famous/wealthy person in her
mind?  Other than putting her into somnambulism and telling her that we are
wealthy and famous person?  I'm sure people out there have already thought
about this, and have developed some cool techniques to do it.  If anybody
has any ideas or methods for this, please share.  I'd also like to know if
people think this is irrelevant, and not worth investigating.

Because it seems to me, that if you can create the belief in her mind that;

you = famous (or the feelings/effects/states of being famous)
you = rich (or the feelings/effects/states of being famous)

even if it's totally not true at all...then your expectation for getting
your desired outcome will skyrocket.  Huge shortcut.  And if there can be a
way to do it FAST...hmm....

My Comment:  I think you have hit an important nail on the head and I would
like to hear from everyone with ideas about this.


I posted a profile for the first time this morning and got bombarded with
email. The profile didn't say anything! : ) This is too funny.  The last
time I tried this shit I guess I was too direct.
Now all these chicks are telling me how interesting my profile is and it
doesn't say a Goddamn thing! Fuckin' hilarious, Bro.

What I'm noticing is that if you're direct, or answer their questions as you
would in normal conversation, they get spooked, or they conclude you're out
of their league.

Anyway, additive to my email about Egyptian Sex Magick....I've run this down
as far as I can and I can't find anything associated with what's in that
Melchizidek book. I did find one book titled "Egyptian Tantra Yoga" but it's
bullshit. Teaches nothing but celebacy. Fuck that. I can barely practice
celerybacy! Oh yeah, that's abstaining from having sex with green leafy
vegetables. HAW HAW HAW!

My Comment:  You have to tell us more about what is happening with the
online personals.

GameMaster:  What I'm finding out is that evasion is the best tactic.
And vague process language. I can send you the basic text from
my profile but you'll laugh cause there's no meat in it. Most
of the mail refers to "how interesting" I sound. Ridiculous!
But I am having a running dialogue with three women in that from what I can
tell from their pics are worthy candidates. Funny, I pulled the best pic I
could find out of a drawer, it was a few years of the girls wrote
back. This is hysterical.  This is the thread from the very hot chick
that was demanding a picture. I didn't have a JPG so I searched
through some old photos looking for just the right impression to
make. I found some from the Pro-Am at Pebble Beach a few years
back and had the photo shop airbrush my pic together with one
we took of Clint Eastwood so it looks like he's talking to me
while I'm drinking a beer!  Too funny....except for one thing.
Seems I was married at the time and I forgot about the ring. So
unknowingly I sent the picture to Ashlee, and got this reply:

Ashlee: Nice photo, which one is you? that
a wedding band I see or are my eyes playing tricks? And tell Tina
she's doing a good job.

GameMaster wrote: Wow, that's amazing. Yes, it is a wedding band and I wear
it for a couple of reasons. And I've gotten so accustomed to it lately
I forget. I remember reading somewhere several years ago that
in the business world, married men have less issues with acceptance
and credibility. If you've ever studied psychology you may be familiar
with this concept. It's just another form of prejudice we have to deal with
in this goofy world. I think they referred to it as "social proof" or
something like that. And looking back years ago when I got my divorce, I can
recall instances where I actually experienced that first hand. I'm in sales
management and it's just another tool to me, just like slides or product
literature. But
it's funny, people are so self centered these days I never find myself
having to defend it to anyone.
And, there's an even better reason than that. When I hired on my company a
few years ago I had to go to Toronto for a two week orientation. My boss
pulled me aside and said "Look, I probably don't have to tell you this but
you're going to Toronto and you are going to meet a lot of beautiful women
up there but don't even think about it. We have a strict policy in the
and you don't want to deal with that...and furthermore, the girls
in Canada don't care about the policy and they are gonna be all
over you so keep your head on straight." I remember that like
it was yesterday, 'cause he was right! We have about 8,000 employees
on the main campus and once word got out about the new guy there were
suddenly all these girls "hanging" out in the marketing reception area...and
I was introduced to most of 'em.  I wore this ring up there that week so as
to deflect any such temptation but Canada's different....they DON'T care if
you're married, in a relationship, whatever, they're just more free with
that part of their lives than we are down here. But now they all think I'm
happy and I don't have to deal with all the little emails and vmails and you
know what I mean, and I haven't done anything to compromise this once in a
lifetime opportunity.  AND, and this is a good one, I can go to a sales
conference like we had in California a few weeks ago and not have to deal
with the young single guys browbeating me to come hang out with
them at strip clubs and stuff like that cause they think I'm
cool, and I can focus on what's important and be much more effective.
There's more but you prolly already got more of an answer than you expected.

Any of this make sense?

Ashlee's reply:  Oh my God, I am so embarrassed. I knew I would be eating my
words as soon as I hit the send button. And yes, that makes perfect
sense. I guess I just never thought about it quite like that.  Sometimes I
even wear a band myself when I'm out with friends so I won't get hassled!
But when we meet, let's leave the rings at home-K?  And BTW, I wasn't going
to tell you this if you were married but you are very handsome :) Write

Cliff, this is too funny. You know, it may not be a bad
idea to go find that fucking ring, dust it off and give it a whirl
in the clubs just to see what happens. May lend credibility to
the whole book routine ;)

BTW, I understand you added my friend Burt to the list. Burt is
a bartender at the Dollhouse here and a cool guy...what
a hound. He's eating this stuff up. Burt validated most of what
Halbster had to say about strippers, however, he didn't have much
regard for the other comments in that thread...said the other guy
didn't know what the fuck he was talking about...his words,  not
mine but I agree. He should be a valuable source for methods in
these clubs.  If it's moving he's gonna take a run at it! Burt's one of
guys that would fuck a woodpile praying to catch a snake! Be a good guy to
hang out with here 'cause he knows everybody in town and he's relentless
hitting on women. He always wondered what the fuck I was doing to these
girls in the club so I finally let him in on this great secret a few weeks
ago. And he watched as I was practically raped by that little shooter girl
last nite so I guess I have a new wingman. She told me.."Look, I don't want
to break up with my boyfriend, but I told him I was going to see you and he
just needed to get over it!" Be still my heart. And she hasn't seen my best
stuff yet...this is gonna blow her away. And she's already agreed to allow
me to hypnotize her! Life is wonderful.


I am into rapid induction hypnosis, and have been
using some of it on HB's.  I want to know if anyone out
there has rapid induction techniques to use for
lightening fast inductions and seduction. I can tell
you that I have been testing some methods which are
very dangerous.  I grab the HB's butt then say
SURRENDER, I say it loudly and menacingly, and I put
my hands on both her shoulders and press down.  Then I
go ahead with SS patterns, connection themes usually.

I have tried this 4 times after carefully picking my
victim. The first girl gasped loudly and seemed to go into
immediate trance, her mouth remained open for the rest
of my pattern.  I was almost as shocked as she was, and
I got off track, so I ended it with friendly chat,
telling her she was powerful and had great potential
and prospects in her life due to her 'psychic
abilities'- then I got the hell out of there.  That
girl did not utter a word during the entire episode.

Girl 2 was a Chinese chick outside the university
library.  After I grabbed her ass, she whipped around ,
faced me, and  said something unintelligible, I
commanded her to RELEASE  YOUR INNER GODDESS, follow
my voice and surrender to the ultimate sensation that
you feel penetrating you NOW.  I paused, she said "ok",
I moved into general SS patterns and ended up taking
her to a more private area where we started to kiss
and make out.  This was a total success, and I still
see this girl and I am training her.

After girl #2 , I was emboldened, and went for a
top of the line 10, a beautiful brunette with killer
body, she was  sitting at the end of an empty bar.  I
casually approached and slid my hand down her back and
squeezed her ass, she didn't flinch, this time I
skipped the shocking induction language and went right
to a connection pattern, she interrupted me, and said
"is this how you pick up women, by grabbing their
ass?"  I said, only the special ones who I connect
with in a deep way, she said , "yeah right, get lost"
-- I walked away with my tail between my legs.

Girl # 4 only got worse, I grabbed her ass while she
was waiting at a bus stop, she screamed and  backed
away from me, she had terror in her eyes, and she said
WHAT WHAT WHAT, she was panting for breath, and I
said "Sorry, I mistook you for someone else," then I got
out of the area quickly.

 So you can see, there can be success with this type
of method, but it can also get you thrown in jail.
After girl #4, I have not tried it again, but I'm eager
to get started once again perhaps without the ass

I need the help of you professionals to give me
pointers on rapid induction seduction.  I'm  looking
for your boldest stuff.

My Comment:  Pretty fascinating approach, really out of the box.
Comments, anyone?

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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