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"If you don’t come get me, I won’t come over"

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If you haven’t already visited the   ASF forum or Player Guide web board, now would be a good time to do so…
Don’t forget to this site!
Fast Seduction 101 now has a product review section.

If you don’t come get me, I won’t come over
3/25/01 1:07:21 PM Eastern Standard Time


Here's a site to check out:


You can now find out about this list on the following sites (I am sure I
forgot a few, so please feel free to correct me and add to this list):
Mystery's Lounge (special invitation required -- write me and I will forward
your request to join to Mystery)


Bryan Redfield has a free ezine called The Sober Truth about dating and
relationships.  To subscribe, go to:


OMG here's something fucking amazing, check it out.  I stumbled across
this on an automotive website...  How delicious is!


Here is what I have come up with so far... I took some off what Ross
suggested... can I get some critiques?

Hey xxxxxxxx,

I don't know how you got the idea that I "took more of a liking to me
then I had hoped." I specifically remember asking you if you liked
poetry and would you like to read poems that I had written. If I
remember correctly your answer was "as long as I can understand them",
that is the only reason I sent you the first one. I thought maybe you
would enjoy and share them. Which apparently, if I read your E-MAIL
below correctly you did.
>Subject:         Re: hey xxxxxxx........
>   Date:         Sat, 17 Mar 2001 18:45:21 EST
>   From:        xxx***[email protected]***.com[ ? ]
>     To:         yyy***[email protected]***.net[ ? ]
>beautiful poem. Even I could understand it! :). If you have more I
would love
>to hear them. I would also like to com visit you again sometime I just
>know when that will be quite yet. Once I am done with school in three
weeks I
>will have lots of time. We will have to pick a day then. I have another

>for you....

Now, as to the second poem I would have not sent it, if you had not
asked to read more off them.  I don't know if reading these poems stirred
something down deep inside you that made you feel the way you did.  Imagine
how surprised I was to have gotten the response I got from you in your last
E-MAIL below.
>Subject:         Re: hey xxxxxxxxx.......
>   Date:         Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:25:13 EST
>   From:        xxx***[email protected]***.com[ ? ]
>     To:         yyy***[email protected]***.net[ ? ]
>    I enjoyed working with you the first time through school. However,
>think that you took more of a liking to me then I had hoped. Your poems
are a
>little too sensual and I don't feel them appropriate. Please do not
>those types of poems anymore, they make me uncomfortable. I do have a
>boyfriend as you know, and he isn't happy with what you send me and
>am I.

To which, I to had say: WOW... Because you had struck me as an adult
woman who could handle the full range of ideas and emotions without
having to retreat into feeling uncomfortable.  Of all the people who
have read and liked my poems to date, you are the only one who has felt
them UNCOMFORTABLE or INAPPROPRIATE. Yes, my poems are sensual, because
that's what I like to write about.  To me, there is nothing much more
sensual than they way people feel for each other.

And yes, I know you have a boyfriend. I'm glad you have found that one
rare person who fulfills your needs, desires and fantasies.  Someone who
you can spend time with day after day, week after week, month after month,
year after year, someone who makes you feel as happy as your boyfriend does
for you... what's it like to be totally fulfilled by one person, one person
that fills every single one of your REQUIREMENTS?

As to "taking more of a liking to you then you had hoped", the only thing
I thought I took was, at the very least was another pen-pal (E-MAIL). To
tell you the truth I had expected you to be like all the rest.  You come
up here with your class and do what you had to do, and not be seen again.
Or did you think me to be so desperate that I would insert myself where I
was not wanted?

I only take a liking to someone who is open minded to new possibilities.
Someone who is not tied down by society's standards as to what's
COMFORTABLE or APPROPRIATE, who is open to new directions. Anyway, I think
I've taken enough your time. This is my last E-MAIL so take care and good
luck to you and yours.


>Women are just fucking crazy though, you know. Went
>out with this hotass woman last week and after a 4 hour working over I
>kissed closed her and she looked at me and said "You are the most awesome
>man I've ever met...I can't ever see you again!" Oh well, back to the
>drawing board!

Response: the only possibilities you define as being real
for yourself are the ones that are painful and limiting. Where is
THAT going to lead you in your life?


> Berty:
> Met this girl the other day she's in massage school. We talked
> and told jokes. After which we exchanged e-mail too talk and
> exchange jokes, I asked her if she liked poems, she said she'd
> liked to read some. After I sent her the first one, this is what
> I got from her..
> >beautiful poem. Even I could understand it! :). If you have more
> >I would love to hear them. I would also like to com visit you
> >again sometime I just don't know when that will be quite yet.
> >Once I am done with school in three weeks I will have lots of
> >time. We will have to pick a day then. I have another joke
> >for you....
> So, I sent her a second one and this is what I got back from
> her....
> >I enjoyed working with you the first time through school.
> >However, I think that you took more of a liking to me then I had
> >hoped. Your poems are a little too sensual and I don't feel them
> >appropriate. Please do not e-mail those types of poems anymore,
> >they make me uncomfortable. I do have a boyfriend as you know,
> >and he isn't happy with what you send me and neither am I.
> So, can someone help formulate a response to this.....

I'll have a go. It's not field-tested, though...

Thanks for your compliment. Quite a few girls have told me I am a
very sensual guy, and that my poems touch their hearts. To me, it
just feels like I am being myself, and expressing what is deep
within me, reaching out to the reader, and connecting deep within
her, touching her heart and caressing her soul.

I love to feel the power of life, the pleasure that comes from
living life to the full. Life is meant to be lived, don't you

So many people I meet seem to want to cut themselves off from life
and what it has to offer. They seem to struggle against their own
inner desires. And that struggle, shows up in their bodies - tight
muscles, inflexible joints, dull aches, blank areas where they
don't feel anything. If you are in conflict, it can't help but show
up in your body somewhere. I'm sure you've learnt all about this in
massage school.

My poems are not for everyone. Especially not for people who
constrict their feeling, and who live by other people's rules,
rather than their own.

I guess my poems are for people who are sensual, like me, and who
greet life with an open heart.

I can understand why some people find my poems too much. It puts
them in touch with those inner desires they want to deny. It's
like offering massage to someone who hates to be touched.

Thanks again for your compliment. And for your positive comments
about my poems and how you respond to them. I've received similar
comments from other readers, so that tells me I'm on the right

My Comment:  I don't think this is going to accomplish much.  Personally, I
agree with Ross's earlier comments that she doesn't deserve more than to
slapped down for her rude behaviour.  And for myself, unless I was truly
inspired to want to get past her borefriend and other nonsense and bang her,
I wouldn't even dignify her with a response.


I wanted to prospect you about a new product for women...
It is called Viacreme and works like viagra for men but this is for women.
If you would like check it out, my website is
and there is more information available via recorded message at
316-697-7777.  Choices 1-9  1 being a 3 minute sizzle call and 2 being an 8
minute overview, etc.  This stuff really works wonders for women and for us
MEN WHO LOVE WOMEN, a gift to us as well as for them.  Maybe you could turn
NATASHA on to if you aren't interested I will be glad
to share VIACREME with her and her entrepreneurial beauties.
It is a fact that woman who ORGASM more than 3 times a week live 10 years
longer than women who orgasm less than 3 times.  In other words WOMEN NEED

My Comment:  Anyone out there care to test this?  How about it, Natasha?


Well, here's a little update on miss "I broke the 24 hours WebPersonals
record".  All bets are off for now, and I'd like to think it's probably
for the better but who knows if what transpired still leaves a door open
for some action.  I found that pretty soon she was testing me, trying to
bust my balls online.  This was after the time she said "maybe you just
have way too much going for you" and "I can't believe you haven't found
someone yet".  I used Sisonpyh's line of "did you know the average
American woman is ... 150 lbs.?" and she came back with some remark about
how all Americans are fat with no style".  While the comment wouldn't have
bothered me even if I WAS an American (I wish!!) I thought I'd test her
too and said "I don't think I like the way you generalize" (bust her balls
a bit).

Well, that just about killed the whole deal. I didn't hear much from her
following that and she didn't even have the guts or courtesy to cancel our
dinner date (and she never gave me her address, either).  It kinda
perplexes me because she said she has a hard time finding guys she likes,
and she obviously liked me.  But I had to realize this was to be expected,
as she told me she had left her last guy, literally, waiting in the church
on wedding day!  Now THAT'S fucked.

I told all of this to the east coast chick I've been sarging, and suggested
that SHE send an email to miss record-breaker which basically thanked her
for driving away the most wonderful man she had ever met, right into her
arms, and how lucky she was at how stupid she is, being exactly like every
other Toronto GIRL (miss record-breaker stressed often she was different
than most women).  She LOVED the idea and did it.  The best part?  The email
never mentioned my name.  Considering she got 500+ responses, she'll likely
have no clue which guy it refers to as I know she met a few and drove them
away too.  This might leave a door open for me if she decides to contact me
again, but certainly takes a bite out of her cute little ass.

As for the east-coast chick, aside from eloquent writing, one thing that
got her completely flipped for me (including "don't want to eat, can't
sleep") was that I would use Photoshop to 'insert myself' into pics of her
that she had sent me.  It took a bit of work, but she now has several
remarkably real-looking pics of us together, in various stages of foreplay
and even one where I'm fucking her and she's blindfolded.  Drives her
completely insane and she loves them and keeps them on the screen when we
chat.  Last week she finally agreed to come to Toronto to meet me (and
she's married, lol).


> Casey:
> > ... if she TESTS you, don't jump through her HOOP (HOOP THEORY).  Simply
> > call her on it and/or construct your own HOOP.
> Please elaborate on HOOP THEORY!!!

Let me take a stab at explaining "hoop theory" as I understand it. In a
nutshell, hot women attempt to get guys to "jump through hoops" for them.
Inexperienced guys naively think that if you jump through a woman's hoops,
she will like you, but in reality exactly the opposite is true. If you jump
through her hoops upon command, it marks you as a chump, and no
self-respecting woman wants to go to bed with a chump (although they often
like to keep one or more chumps on a leash, whenever they need a fool to do
something that they don't want to do themselves. These chumps remain "just

I can illustrate this with an example that happened to me within the past
two weeks. Having lunch one day with my beautiful Chinese princess, she
arranged to come over to my place that evening after finishing her class. We
made some comment about us both being so hot we'd set the sheets on fire.
Well, after the class was over, she called me from campus and asked me to
come down and get her! This was absurd, because it's about a 20-25 minute
drive from here. "Do you mean you expect me to drive down, get you, drive
you to my place, then afterward drive you back to campus late at night so
you could get your car and then drive home?" "Yes, I'm very tired, and I
don't want to drive." "But your car is only a block away from where you are
now!" "Yes, but I'm very tired, and I don't want to have to climb up the
stairs in the garage. If you don't come get me, I won't come over, I'll just
go home." (She still had to drive about 25 minutes that night to get home,
no matter how much driving around I might do beforehand, and I reminded her
that if she came over I could relax her **completely**!)

I told her that this was the most absurd demand I had ever heard. She hung
up. I sent her an angry email, telling her that I was not her trained monkey
who would jump through hoops for her, and that if she wanted a guy like that
she should  find somebody else. As soon as she read the email she called me,
very upset, and said she never wanted to see me again. "Don't call me, and
don't send me email."

But the next day she contacted me on the pretext of returning something, and
then started pouring out her feelings. After I spent some time listening to
her hurt feelings, she agreed to meet me for coffee that afternoon. When we
met, she argued that if I loved her, I would have driven her around town all
evening for no real reason, because she had asked me to. I stood my ground,
and said that was absurd.

Gradually her anger softened, and by that evening, she was back in my bed
again! And now she's hotter for me than ever. Had I taken the chump's way
out, our relationship would probably be history.

My Comment:  While it worked here, I think most of us have had the opposite
experience at least a couple of times.  I've refused to do similar things
and got nexted.  Now, depending on circumstances, I would usually still
refuse but in a very low key way -- you describe your reaction as being
somewhat angry.  I will make it like "you're kidding, right?  That's not
happening" but very matter of fact.  This is the kind of thing where there
really isn't only one right answer, you've got to judge each situation

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***[email protected]***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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