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"Wow, man, I love those glasses!”"

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Wow, man, I love those glasses!”
4/7/01 12:34:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Here are a couple of yahoo groups you may want to check out:


I can understand why men want to have sex with strippers but I don't
understand why they would want them as steady girlfriends. My husband dated
a stripper (this was before he met me) and she was the one who approached
him..when she was working. And this wasn't the dumpy scummy skank-filled
strip club at the edge of town. This was the O'Farrell Theater in San
Francisco, so she was definitely top of the line, as far as dancers go. She
was very pretty, had a great body, smart, sassy in her early twenties and of
course, pretty freaky. She was paying her way through school by dancing.
Long story short: she lied to him, was seeing a drug dealer behind his back,
he found out and dumped her. So much for being Captain Save-a-Ho.

(Linda replying to Ebderm: I am very interested in this "women are very
angry" theory. If so, why are they? By the way, some men are angry, and it
is more than rejection. From the AFC point of view, he is being targeted and
Women spend much effort, and money, to look sexy.
Woman: "You are thirsty. Tooooo bad. You can't have this DELICIOUS, CLEAR,
cool, water that I have..Maybe, I'll let you just look at it...."
If a woman was angry, she would actually have a logical motivation to do
this. So, why are women angry?
I know that many women, even if they are angry, and have been indoctrinated
by the dating system, are very honorable and don't behave like this.

I also believe that the repression of women in many cultures is due to a
fear of the sexual power of angry women to behave in this manner. In
American culture, we are giving incredible power to attractive 20 year old
women. My acquaintances from certain Moslem countries are very impressed by
the power of women in western society.):

I believe all women have an incredible amount of power, no matter what
culture. Some of us don't realize that we have it and don't know how to use
it ethically. This idea of the power that women wield in western society
intrigues me because so few western women actually believe they have power!
The other day I was talking to a colleague of mine and she said her son, a
Harvard grad who's in his  twenties, was complaining about all the angry
women he met in college. She said that he was amazed at HOW angry they were
and that they ALL were angry. I thought it was interesting that these mostly
privileged, highly educated young women were so pissed off. Here, you have
an elite group of supposedly intelligent women who could have the world at
their feet and they're pissed off.

I believe that a lot of these women are pissed because of an ugly
combination of  entitlement and victimization. They think they are entitled
to have a shitload of power yet they feel they have very little
power--political, social, or sexual--because of all those big bad men in the
sexist world and so they are angry.

Then there are those women who are aware but choose to use their power in
ways most guys on this list are all too familiar with. Because these women
see how some men are so easily pussy whipped, they have contempt for all men
and thus use this power to tease and take advantage of men.


I just got completely backfired last night when I was out with my
friend and her friends to a club in her hometown.  All goes well in the pub
we went before, but then we go to this club and it all screws up.  I was
dancing with these girls (6,8,8) and building up a good rep.  Saw a new 2
group (7's) so I got with them for a bit hoping to establish base but
apparently they were only interested in getting down which I wasn't..
Returned to 3 group with my friend, but then they see more old friends
(hometown uni vacation syndrome), etc.  I didn't think they were worthy, but
actually felt like they didn't even bother to speak with me (I have never
been treated with such disrespect!)

I moved to the dance floor (we were in a "cage" before getting down- it's
cool, like one of those "Austin Powers" shagadelic ones =>), and after
scouting I noticed this TEN SHB surrounded by 3 guys on the dance floor, she
was moving it like nothing else ever moves!  Eyes all on her I just had to
do it.  I planned and dived in for the approach.  I was able to move in
easily because these 3 guys were undoubtedly AFC's or of less status.  She
was also just all by herself.  All goes well, we chat, good body language»,
step further in, establish body contact kino, start grinding with her and
moving it and this dude suddenly taps me on the shoulder.   I turned around,
looked at the girl and told her to wait for a sec, and then looked at him
and asked "What."  He said, "Wow, man, I love those glasses!" (those of you
who don't know I wear glasses, yeah, so what they look good on me! lol)
First thought was he's a homo- but then I suddenly looked behind and noticed
some other guy chatting the SHB up.  This dude engages me in conversation
for less than 20 seconds (I should have just pushed him aside but I heard
lots of fights happen here I would prefer to avoid), then he turns around
and WALKS AWAY.  I would SO not be surprised if I just got fucked by a team
with a faggot-like wingmen!!! >=/

I ended up closing only 2 #'s last night but I chatted up at least 15. Yes
FIFTEEN and 2 fucking numbers.  I don't know what's going on!  I mean intro
was easy to establish but then I don't know why- I just feel like I am not
gaining much interest from ANY of them.  It was shit.   I was not able to
follow up with any routine.  Do I just not have enough "experience" or
"knowledge" on hand to instantly use (i.e. switching to stuff that "works")?
Or does this just happen occasionally (low conversion rate)?

I was tempted to blame my friend and hers for not respecting me, not giving
me the chance to get to know them or them to know me and hang out with me
when I needed the attention.  They were acting like 15 year olds at summer
camp.  I just couldn't take it.  But I know besides the state I was in -
something else must've been out of the equation last night.  I don't know
what.  To be fair, I'm still new to the club scene, but I like it with some
exceptions like last night.

I would like to hear advice from PUA who are experts with clubs/pubs.  What
do you think is going wrong?  I couldn't even sleep last night.
I'm fine now but I just can't sort it all out yet.

>  To do this INSTEAD of EXPERIENCING the real thing is to miss

Astounding lack of flexibility in your thinking on THIS one subject;
who said it is either or? You mentally rehearse and THEN you go to
it.  Study after scientific study shows mental rehearsal improves
performance in EVERYTHING. If you don't want to, then don't. Don't
tell others it isn't useful or possible just because YOU choose not
>  The first
>couple approaches of the day will be scary

That is telling...why should they be scary? I can honestly say I am
NEVER scared anymore. I may be unmotivated or tired or jittery at
times, but scared? OF WHAT?
>ONE is to MENTALLY VISUALIZE and the other
>is to FAMILIARIZE. Which honestly do members of this list
>believe to bring the person closer to the desired outcome? Anyone?

NO, you do BOTH. Visualize and THEN go do.
>  >While I salute your courage in actively fighting your fear,
>  >that's just ONE way to do it. And it's the hard way.
>Is it HARDER? I suppose ... AND it's grabbing the bull by the horns. Do
>the guys want to seduce HOTTIES or piddle around HOPING AND DREAMING ALL
>WEEK only to get out ONCE in a blue moon? While most are PREPARING to live
>the life, I'm out LIVING the LIFE.

Either/or. Rehearse, THEN DO!
>  >Now, I've personally cured LIFETIME phobias in under 10 minutes,
>  >using NLP.
>  >I think the word PHOBIA is a rather strong word for very normal
>  >ANTICIPATORY ANXIETY. People get anxiety before certain situations.
>can THINK ABOUT THIS for hours before or jump in. Its like >jumping into a
>cold pool. Some ease in slowly and complain for a long time >until they are
>in. Others just stand there looking and thinking about it. And >then there
>are the 3s rule guys ... just get in the fucking pool.
>  >I'm talking folks with total terror. Telling them to
>  >just "get moving" doesn't cut it; this ain't about willpower.
>I suppose you HAVE to help those who are ARRESTED by ANTICIPATORY ANXIETY.
>It's your income. I don't. I'm up for what works BEST. And I believe it IS
>about willpower.

I don't agree.  It's about self-hypnosis. If a person has imagery of
failing and nasty feelings attached, it's suggestion and trance. The
imagination will always trump the will. So why not make them work

It seems you have an underlying belief about life: if it isn't hard,
it isn't real. Or, it's too good to be true means it usually is.
Well, the only people who believe "it's too good to be true" are the
ones who believe the only possibilities are those that are painful
and hard.  Good luck with that, brother!
>  There are those who FIGHT the fear and then there are the
>cowards. While you HAVE to help them, I don't. I think they should just
>home and masturbate until they die leaving no children. Natural selection

Well, that's compassionate of you. Cowards? No, just folks who
haven't yet learned to control their imagery and associated feelings.
That's a lack of skill as much as anything else.  Gee, you really
want to do things the hard way so you can feel superior to those who
can make it easier on themselves.  Ease up on the anger, buddy.
>  I teach that for those
>willing to TRY, you will learn how to CONTROL yourself WHEN you
>experience those emotions. They won't vanish. It doesn't happen.

They don't vanish..for whom? It doesn't happen...for whom?

If they don't vanish for you, that is YOUR experience. That
constitutes a boundary ONLY for you, not for others who may have
better control tech at their disposal.  In fact, the fear can and
DOES vanish if you have the tools. Stop knocking those who have tools
you don't and resenting and even hating them when they use them.
>  You
>can only learn to CONTROL your actions while in a fucked up state with
>PRACTICE. LIVE PRACTICE. You don't learn to swim by reading about it.

Yet, if you throw someone with a flaming phobia of water into the
sea, they are more likely to drown than swim.  Fix the phobia, THEN
teach them to swim.
>You watch others and then jump in. Humans learn by IMITATION. Fake it
>til you make it. FAKE being a PUA and over time as you become
>competent you will BECOME a PUA. You can't fake being a PUA without
>practicing the role. Shit or get off the pot.

Either/or mentality. Alcoholics in the family by any chance?
Black/white thinking is a typical alcoholic family pattern.
>  >>People don't MEDITATE or listen to tapes or stand on their
>  >>fucking heads just to get in a good mood so they can enjoy going out
>  >Really? I'd bet lots of folks do SOME kind of ritual before they
>  >engage in such activities. So speak for yourself.
>You know people who PREPARE to go to a party by some form of RITUAL?
>Anyone who needs to PREPARE just to head out are NOT GETTING OUT
>ENOUGH! And hell, I don't wanna hang out with losers like that. "I'm
>too SCARED to talk to her!" You know what I say? "I'm JUST as scared
>... but I'm going to fuck her while you masturbate alone. Bye."

Who said anything about scared?  Even the best performers pump up
before the mirror before they hit the footlights. Same thing.
>  >>MOST people go out to have fun.
>  >MOST people, including HB's, dressup and primp and fuss before
>To prepare by making yourself culturally attractive is one thing. To
>chant "People like me. They really like me" is to have Mystery steer
>clear around THAT fuckin' loon. I wouldn't want such losers to be at
>the parties I go to.

Where do I suggest "chanting" anything, much less that? You are woefully
misinformed and angry into the bargain.  Bitter at how hard you have had to
work to overcome your fear and resentful of those who can do it in an easier
>Very good. This is fitting for my debate with Ross. Ross has to
>convince cowards they are heroes.

I don't think in terms of such stupid labels. "Cowards" and "heroes".
Nonsense.  This isn't fighting or war; it's approaching women.  It's
about state control and that is about mental rehearsal and THEN going
out and acting.  To deny people tools that can help by labeling them
"cowards" is an approach that says things MUST be painful and hard.

Well, maybe fighting is and war too, but NOT this activity.  The
fear in this activity is largely IMAGINARY so use of the same
processes to instill a good, calm, excited, aware and up state BEFORE
and during action is perfectly fine.
>  I don't. So if I say fight the fear
>and act anyways, I'm saying this from a HERO's point of view

Hero? Or someone who is making it harder than it needs to be because
you lack the tools?
>will always say "it's easier said than done." Sure it's easier said, but
>the one saying it is also the one who DOES IT.

No, but if you can find an easier way to assist you in doing it and
you DO it, then I say "GREAT".

Damnit, you sound like a cranky old man complaining, "Why, we didn't
have heaters and cars when I was young! We had to walk 2,000,000
miles through the snow to get to school and then when we got home, we
were beaten within an inch of our lives! Young people today are
>Shit or get off the pot,
>gentlemen. If you can't face your fear, since the feeling will NOT go
>away, you might as well fuck off entirely.

The feeling doesn't go away for you. That is YOUR limit. Come see me
and I promise to cure the fear, FOREVER. I am sure you have the courage
to learn a better way to mentally manage your state.
>There are two ways to obtain knowledge. Close your eyes and dream or
>open your eyes and systematically explore reality.

Nonsense again  and pure ignorance. Close your eyes, dream and then
go into reality and TEST your dream.  What is with your either/or
intolerant, pain-centered cave-man thinking? Shockingly ignorant.
>  >Hey, don't blame the SS list; negs are off topic and we discourage
>  >stuff's off topic!
>A perfect example of DENYING TRUTH. The world is flat because the
>bible SAYS it is. Once we discover something may need updating, why
>not simply UPDATE IT

I'm not "denying" anything. I'm simply saying the SS list is about
SS.  If we open it to peripheral things like general NLP
discussions, cologne choices, dressing right, etc. there will be no
end of chatter about things that don't concern SS. Some lines have to
be set, and Cliff's list picks up the topics not covered on the SS

I think you need to take a breather, buddy.  Don't take YOUR
limits and apply them to everyone.
>And then there is the "No I'm not sleeping with another girl" not because
>the truth has to do with life and death but because if you tell the truth
>you will make her very unhappy. It's easier to lie than to change her

Or maybe you can have enough COURAGE to move on if you can't
HONESTLY get what you want from someone.
>  >"Don't ever lie" is naive, but "life is complex so I need to lie" is,
>  >To make this less a philosophical debate and more
>  >applicable to seduction: in my experience, lying is hard,
>  >because you have to keep track of lies, and in the long run it damages
>  >credibility and rep
>How does my telling my LTGF she is the only one damaging my rep? My
>rep to whom? And since I am not one to be fucked with, why would I care
>what others think of me? If I have 2 GF's that's MY biz - if someone
>were to fuck with me I'd break his legs - simple. Where is my
>credibility damaged? Does my secretly having an affair make me less
>credible? Do I damage my rep?

Maybe you damage your own sense of integrity and self-worth. If you
have to lie to get what you want, how is that different from someone
stealing to get something they want but can't afford? The bottom line
is, you want it so you will do what it takes to get it.
>  >-- see the 48 Laws of Power», Law #5: "So
>  >much depends on reputation -- guard it with your life."
>I do what pleases me - I'm congruent.

So does a burglar.  Where do you draw the line?

My Comment:  This is an example of one of the situations where the
collective knowledge of handling women that I know is on the subscriber list
of these emails.  For example, one of my best friends (who gets these but
has never commented on any of them) is someone who had at least 5
girlfriends simultaneously for 10 years when he was single.  They all knew
he had other women (he usually saw each one night a week) and, in fact, the
woman he married was in his stable for 4 years before he married her.  There
are ways to maintain your integrity and have what you want.  I would point
to my role model Hugh Hefner (gotta send him an invite to subscribe) but
guys always discount him claiming he's got the money working for him (but I
say, there are plenty of wealthy guys out there, none of whom that I know of
besides him who have been able to have multiple, long term simultaneous
girlfriends like he has.  I think managing several women over a long term --
he recently separated from a group of 4 that he was seeing for 2 years, only
to replace them now with a group of 7 -- takes more than money; he's clearly
a master at managing this kind of a situation).  And there are also the
Mormons to look at (I saw a television special about some of these
polygamous families, and the women were attractive, highly educated and
intelligent -- some were doctors and lawyers, for example -- who preferred
sharing one man with sometimes 20 or more other women).  There is more to
this issue than having to lie to get what you want.

(Ross's comments continue:)
>I'm not
>out to hurt others unless they deserve to be punished. My other
>thought is: my lies are only to protect the feelings of others who
>would not be able to understand the complex nature of man.

That's a nice rationalization.  Your lies are only to get you what
you want from people who wouldn't give it to you if they knew the
truth about your situation and your intent.  That's the same thing
burglars say, "Well, that rich person has insurance, so it won't
really cost them anyway".  Just more lies to yourself to justify what
you are doing.  I say THIS is true COWARDICE, Mr. Mystery.
>  >Besides, Mys, you say you want
>  >a challenge, but then you say lying makes things easier. What's
>  >it gonna be, chief -- the hard way or the easy lay?
>We are talking about LTR's here, bro. Easy lays don't compute here. You
>have a LTR and she becomes your ONLY one ... and then your PUing
>finally lands another girl. You discover you won't have her unless you
>say you are single so you do.

Or you move on and find someone who doesn't mind or care.
>  Next thing you know, you have 2 GF's and 2
>little lies. It's not like I can't keep track of my TWO lies. Pretty
>simple really.

So, you have to cheat to win. What does that say about your view of
yourself and your world?
>  >In my book, basically there are only two rules: don't hurt
>  >yourself and don't hurt others. Lying usually hurts both parties in the
>  >short term, and always hurts yourself in the long run.
>My lies comes from my not wanting to hurt the girls. If they knew I was
>with another girl they would cry.

I totally disagree. What see-through self-deception. If they knew you were
with another girl, they might CUT YOU OFF and then you wouldn't get the
only thing of real importance to you: WHAT ***YOU**** WANT. Geez,
would you print up counterfeit bills to pay for things you couldn't
otherwise afford? Who gets hurt from it?


> Magic Juan:
>  This is a response to a really old one (just catching up!) and
>  really not related to seduction. The question was credited to Halbster.
>  >Halbster:
>  >I am curious about how guys consider there cars in relation to
>  seduction.
>  >I'm not talking about what you drive, but how you keep it, and
>  what you keep
>  >in your car. Because of my busy schedule I kinda live out of
>  >my car.
>  Well, if you can't stick to a rule like "don't eat in your car",
>  then at the very least, become more consistently aware of trash cans.
>  Make it a habit that each time you step out of your car, you will look
>  anything that can be thrown away (even if you didn't just eat). You'll
>  be delighted to notice how readily available trash cans are.
>  Brookstone sells a small car litter bag holder that hangs off
>  the back of the passenger seat. It also holds a tissue box underneath (in
>  pinch tissues can substitute as napkins). It doesn't hold a ton of
>  trash, but if you have an immediate need to throw away a soda can or a
>  wrapper which might contain crumbs, they are useful. So, taking the same
>  trash that would have been maybe tossed to the passenger seat, you
>  put it somewhere that makes you seem like a neatnik. Hope you've got a
>  compartment where you can keep spare small trash bags.
>  Get used to going down to the vacuums at the car wash often,
>  even if you don't wash your car. Also, get one or two of those giant wet
>  towels and just LOOK for surfaces to clean. Most stains come off even if
>  they don't seem to at first.
>  >It also probably causes them to think I'm a slob.
>  You're a slob : ). With a little creativity though, you can
>  appear neat without having to interrupt your lifestyle much.
>  >My car typically has some changes of clothing, gym bags/gym
>  equipment, What's in your trunk?
>  >a few books and magazines,
>  Where's your mapholder? What could you put in your car that
>  could serve as a small magazine rack or book shelf? Make it something
>  portable that can easily be stuffed in the trunk just BEFORE you pick her
>  up (unless there's reading material you're hoping she'll see).
>  >a bag of pretzels,
>  Hmmm. I don't suppose installing a kitchenette is practical.
>  And I suppose these pretzels are open? So that when you move
>  them the crumbs spill on the seat? It might be more expensive, but
>  what about buying smaller bags of pretzels that you can eat in one
>  shot?  How about one of those large lunch bags that are thermally
>  insulated? You could keep snacks in 'em but they'll still look reasonable
>  neat.
>  >a few audiobooks, a music tape,
>  Cassette holders, dude. My car is full of cassette and cd
>  holders. They don't look that messy (partly cuz both they and the seats
>  black).  Yet, I still have enough music with me.
>  >things I need for work (mainly papers, and work related
>  reading),
>  Ahem. Brief case.
>  >and some small things I like to keep (a Dictaphone,
>  moisturizer,
>  >hand sanitizer *use sparingly b/c it kills good bacteria &
>  dries skin,
>  >tissues, nail clipper) etc.
>  Small toiletry bag. Or maybe you could use some of the
>  compartments in your gym bag. You are using these things after the gym
>  anyway right? Or are you getting into your car all sweaty so that it
>  into the seat?
>  So I guess my answer is: find portable places to hide these
>  things in.

Guys seem to be missing a major point here.  Although I really like some of
these great ideas for neatening up my car, this post is about seduction.
Despite losing the James Bond image by having a messy car, I think it might
serve some seduction value or at least I don't think it is hindering me.
interested in the messages that are communicated by the car.  I know of lots
of great seducers with sloppy cars.  I think it might help a woman feel
comfortable or that I am a "real person."  It might give her some ideas
my interests or passions.  It might serve some other values.  The effect
might vary from one woman to the next.  Also, it might work for me because
of the rest of my image/communication.  Someone else with a messy car might
not do as well.  This is kinda like a police officer who I chatted with
told me that he had to change his walk, and his glasses, and learn to speak
in a very soft calm voice because he was told that his appearance is very
intimidating.  He benches 500 lbs.  Whereas many officers need to learn
physical intimidation skills and adjust their walk and voice accordingly.
Are there rules for what kinds of messes are appropriate?  I suggest avoid
unpleasant odors and stains.

(Separate comment that is a stripper observation):
Strippers see so many guys and get the same lines thousands of times.  This
causes an overload.  Very often when you expect a stripper to remember you
she won't even if she isn't on drugs.  Then there are other strippers who
have amazing memories.  My friends tease me about this one named Corrina who
always recognized me and was always very friendly to me.  I used to go to
her club only when I was visiting a certain friend (3-4 times a year).  The
first few times I didn't remember her, but then I started to recognize her
by the
spider tattoo on her ass.  (Corrina's just a funny aside.)
Anyway, the purpose of this post is an observation that many strippers have
certain standard/automatic responses.  Some of these are
automatic/programmed and others they routinely use.  One of these responses
is to pretend not to remember guys or events.  The amazing thing that I've
recently learned is that strippers will also do this when they have total
recall and they are really hot for a guy or when they like the guy as a
friend.  This isn't something that all strippers do, but this pattern is
common enough to be worth noting.  I haven't yet figured out the optimal
response for this.


> Dude, if she even remembers who you are in 2 weeks, I'll be shocked.
> TIMING is crucial. Usually with these girls, if you don't close them
> THAT night, you can forget it.  There are exceptions to every rule.
> But 2 weeks is a lifetime to these women.

I wanted to reply to Ross, I agree with everything you said, except this
last point.  Strippers always remember me, even a couple of months later.
Why?  Because I've affected them?  No.  Because I'm a mark.  She will
remember him in two weeks, and she will try to "make it up to him", but only
because it means cash stuffed in her g-string.  If you don't close the first
night, you're a customer.


>>Jeff: I'd like to ask for advice from the list particularly from all
>>the guys experienced in seducing strippers. There is this stripper I am
>>working on and I'm trying hard not to put too much importance on her but
>>it is verydifficult. First of all my objective is to make her
>Whoa! A stripper??? For a GIRLFRIEND?  Ok.....but be sure that's
>what you want. How about a nice, firecracker, fun evening ofbanging
>and then, sayanora. Dude, you might want to redefine your outcome. If
>you like emotional instability, drug usage, flakiness, mood swings,
>stalking and a host of other problems, ok.

I've had 8 stripper GF's and my LTR current is one.  So is her sister.
Your view of strippers is whacked.  Moody yes, but the others no.
>>It's hard to get her attention in the club because when she goes on stage
>>every guy rushes up to tip her and she never has a problem getting guys to
>>buy dances. Two Saturdays ago I went up to her while she was onstage and
>>said, "What does a guy have to do to convince your wondrous self to come
>>talk to him?"Don't EVER go into a club on a Saturday, Friday or
>>Thursday night.
>UNLESS you go in near closing (say an hour before) and so withsome
>bi-girl(s) for bait.

Using girls as bait is good advice.  It doesn't have to be a bi thing
per-se, just social proof.
>>  She seems pretty intelligent and well adjusted as far as dancers go.
>Ha ha ha. "He was pretty straightforward and far

Something I have to say about dancers is this: they ARE pretty honest.
They reveal their true selves TOO MUCH, IMO.  They SHOULD be creating a
character that is attractive to the men ... but they just don't care
enough to do that.  They will talk about their real life issues.  Not
particularly attractive (like the girl revealing her alkie-mama) but
>>My plan now is to go back in about 2 weeks and read her Bishop's Warm
>>Fuzzy. If anyone can give me any other input I would greatly appreciate
>Dude, if she even remembers who you are in 2 weeks, I'll be shocked.

Haaa, exactly.  I bet in 2 weeks she'll call you HONEY.  Just like ALL
her customers.
>TIMING is crucial. Usually with these girls, if you don't close them
>THAT night, you can forget it.  There are exceptions to every rule.
>But 2 weeks is a lifetime to these women.

Agreed!  "One and done" it.
>The "I *am a doctor" holds little water to truth either though I do not
>dispute your statements.
>My Comment:  Just for the record, Poetdude is a Harvard-educated MD.

I bet you didn't know that more than half of scientists believe in God.  How
is THAT for irrationality?  Mathematicians statistically believe in God
MORE than Cosmologists ... Doctors more than Cosmologists but less than
Mathematicians.  (The precise data is in the back of The Demon Haunted
World I think ... or The Physics of Immortality - I forget).  My point is
that the statistics show that doctors believe in the irrational ... more
than 50% of them if I remember correctly.  I have healthy skepticism STILL
... even if they SAY they are a doctor or a scientist.  After all, there IS
such a thing as BAD SCIENCE.  We like to THINK that doctors are rational
and scientific, but then ... why do so many actively practice and believe
in religious faith?

For the record ... there is no God.  Really.  I bet my LIFE on it.  Of
course ... don't tell your targets that!  They believe in ALL the crazy shit
generally.  Such is the replicative power of mimetic thought contagion.
Wear a cross if it helps get you laid.

My Comment:  I have to say that I interpret your comments above to indicate
that you don't accept anyone's views other than your own, and that whenever
a situation arises where you realize that you need to appear flexible you
simply lie to get "in" and get what you want.  Given that, I doubt that you
will consider the above suggestions that there are alternatives.  But
reality, I think, goes against your ideas.  Clearly you sometimes need to do
different things with different women so there is no one way to do things.
The same goes for everything else, everyone is entitled to their opinions
(especially with regard to things such as a belief in God which are
difficult to prove one way or the other to the complete exclusion of all the
opposing arguments; in other words, both sides are capable of putting up
very strong and convincing positions so you have to decide for yourself what
you want to believe -- but that shouldn't mean you necessarily think the
other side is irrational).  My personal position is that there is no one
alive that I expect to agree with everything they think, so I try and focus
on the parts we can get along about and what I can learn or enjoy with
someone.  Hey, if I had to agree with everything a woman says I would be
spending all my time with Rosy Palmer.  That doesn't mean I have to lie to
them or always forcefully point out where we differ -- you have to get along
with people and I don't believe that not necessarily saying something is a
compromise to your integrity (that is situation specific, of course).


> Do you just leave this part out if you've known her awhile, or
>  can you not do this on girls you already know? It seems really powerful.
>  Have you tried it?

Of course, you leave it out if you've known her for awhile. Geez, say what
appropriate for the situation. you can use this on girls you know deeply and
on girls you've just met. I believe it is powerful, but I cannot honestly
give you feedback on it as I have not tried it out yet.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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