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Drop the “I love You” bomb
4/24/01 1:30:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time


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Brother Diamond:
It seems that lesbians by themselves are untouchable.  To get to them, try
for Bi's and then get connected through them.  Any ideas on this theory,
lesbians on their own won't think of being with a man.


>My Comment: This is an edited version of the brilliant Orgasmatron (you can
>find out about it and other interesting stuff from MindList at
> created by Alex Axelrod.


I like Alex's induction. However, I want to point something else.
NOWHERE is he doing any actual touching during this induction. So,
the transition to the actual fucking and touching can be very
jarring. Add in some kino and light touching and it should be
dynamite. Intersperse suggestions that "each and every time you feel
my touch, you feel your feelings get even better and your sense of
freedom and strength(or whatever values you find from her) gets
stronger and stronger!)

Ooops! I see from the wording this is meant to be done on the
computer! MY BAD! But my idea about making touch part of your trance
induction person to person still holds!

My Comment:  I've used the Orgasmatron on the phone a couple of times.  I
didn't quite get the big "O" but the participants were all enthusiastic
about it and one of them said it was working.
>Even the patterns/stories I've memorized I usually
>can't bring up in a live conversation, because I'm too into the
>at hand and not comfortable enough with this kind of speech

STOP! You need to learn to disassociate. Pull out of the trance of
connection you are in by literally leaning back a bit and assessing
the situation. Then go back in by leaning toward her. This is simple
but powerful and allows you to enjoy the moment while keeping track
of where you want and need to go!
>So what if I go
>out today and engage 100 women, like you seem to suggest - it's just a
>matter of luck or basic animal attraction if any of them fall into my bed -
>Meeting women and building rapport are old news to me.........I feel like
>I could just get to where I could do the pattern talk smoothly I'd be
>deadly...if I could just remember and successfully implement these things
>you guys teach into conversations I'm always having when I'm out anyway...

Practice disassociating and re-associating. That will do it!
>Also, when I go to a club the guys are constantly talking to me, cuz they
>know me and I get respect and they don't want to be seen alone. I need to
>learn to be blunt with them, I guess, because I only want to talk to women,
>and they constantly take up my time. Also I become noticeably nervous when
>Ug's take up my time.

Hmm...have we ever thought that an HB who is NOT responding or who is
dissing you, etc. is as much a waste of time as an UG that is keeping
you talking to her when you could be circulating and meeting other
women? What if we saw every HB that was not responding appropriately
as an UG?
> in MM you use stories to display/demonstrate
>particular traits deemed to be attractive/alpha male» traits?

Here's the problem as I see it: The stories Mys tells are designed to
convey something about HIM and NOT to necessarily engage the deeper
levels of her mind. They are designed to show her what a fun,
exciting life he leads so she will admire him and therefore want to
be around him.

The problem is, I think they often just provide temporary
entertainment; he's the performer at the party, and once the party is
over, he's toast. It may even come off to some girls as obnoxious

SS stories are designed to engage and open the deeper parts of the
woman's imagination and by-pass her normal social responses and
habitual choices to make room for you. You then transition to
building greater desire and a "Do it now...take this opportunity"

You see, a big flaw in Mys' logic and a huge reason why he often
will get 10 phone numbers but ZERO actual closes, is that he is
relying on a woman having admiration or envy for a guy's lifestyle as
a primary attraction strategy. For a lot of women, this may be the
case, but for just as many others, it may not. They may actually find
admiration important, but more based on how a man conducts himself in
the world outside of his fun activities.

Plus I find zero mention in Mys' style of finding out about HER;
what interests her. What moves HER. It's all about HIM giving a
performance, "conveying" who he is. Well, maybe he is more successful
than he realizes! Perhaps what he is conveying is just that: that he
is a PERFORMER! And maybe lots of women aren't particularly into
being with a performer. So he gets the women who do like performers
and turns off those who don't!

Here's what I do find of value in his approach: he knows how to
weasel his way in and make it "ok" to talk to those who normally
would have such a greater power dynamic, that his approach might not
be welcome. But once there, I am sure he'd do one hell of a lot
better if he learned some non-verbal rapport AND if he learned to ask
questions that opened the deeper layers and levels of a woman's mind.
Add to that when to go a bit kino, how to build it and move it
towards urgency and he'd up his closing ratio dramatically.

See, here is the thing; in a club, I still think Mys would kick my
ass. Why? Because I am an ugly 42 year old fart. And unless I had a
female bait-fish with me, I just don't belong there. I'm going to get
tagged going in the door as a chicken-hawk. But in any other
non-club setting (on the street, coffee house, restaurant, bar) I am
going to cream him with any girl 25 and over. (Under 23, I just
don't bother any more. Too flaky for me!) I think he is WAY
overemphasizing "conveying his personality" by telling stories about
his life. I think you can convey your personality by how you get
rapport, how you touch a woman (physically and otherwise) the way in
which you approach without apology, etc. Telling stories about
yourself is not that far removed from bragging, and we all know how
much women like that.

My guess is the women Mys pulls are from a sheer numbers game and
are women who are attracted to his physical appearance and who DO
like performers. Good for him, but I bet it's a way smaller piece
of the pie than he needs to be slicing.
> I mean is
>this along the lines of "This reminds me of the time I rescued 23
>children from a burning orphanage..." because, and although I'm sure
>they're not as crude/obvious as that, isn't it possible these stories
>could be seen as bragging/showing off by the target? Kinda like dropping
>names about who you know or hinting as to how rich/eligible you are? Is
>there a web page where I can find out more or where there is an example
>story I can have a look at? Or am I completely missing the point and
>putting far too much emphasis on the story element of it? Your response
>will be greatly appreciated!

I agree.
>I mean, why would I need so much constant attention? Not enough as a kid,

And to what extent are you conveying EXACTLY THAT and turning women
off with your approach so centered on PERFORMANCE? How about relaxing into
quiet power?, THAT wouldn't be attractive at all,
would it?

Now, some women I bet DO like this. Why? Because YOU performing
NEGATES them, and they are LOOKING TO BE NEGATED! It's an attraction to
narcissism in another person. In the same way you attempt to
negate the entirety of anyone who disagrees with your methods, you
negate these women with your constant performing, and being
masochistic, they LOVE it! Kudos to you, good buddy!
>YES. And my fuck up lately is that once I connect like this, I SHOW how I
>can connect with the other girls in the room which fucks it all up - I need
>to learn to pace myself again.

Exactly. They see it as all about a PERFORMANCE on your part. You are
right. They may as well be HOLOGRAPHIC projections for all you see
who they really are and for all you are really connecting with them
as unique people. They are just receptors for your show. Those who
highly value entertainment and/or being negated will love it. The
rest won't. Point, set, match, game over. Goodbye, Mystery!
>Yes, I think I am. Convey weakness (which I have) and they sympathize.

Convey hurt and pain, and women for whom this forms a major part of
their world, WILL feel rapport with you! Do we see a pattern here?
Attracted to the performer who negates them, and drawn to the pain in
you that is part of THEIR world. This sure sounds healthy and
"rational" to me! Randi would love ya, big guy!


David Shade:
>Here's one for the ladies on the list: What does
>it mean when a woman has an orgasm during intercourse,
>and then starts crying?

I asked my girlfriend this question, and she said, "Sometimes a woman is
overcome with overwhelming joy. Her tears are her expression of extreme
pleasure. This only happens when she is very bonded to the man. Every once
in a while it just happens. When it's done, it's just like WOW. Or, it could
be, she is so tired of having intercourse with him that she wishes she was
with her other boyfriend and she is elated that it is over."
>Hey question - has anyone ever made a girl orgasm just by
>activating an anchor?  What's a good anchor to plant for that?

Stage hypnotists have been doing this for ages.  They can make each and
every one of their volunteers have an instant orgasm on command, both female
and male.  It can be done with simply an audio anchor.

Here is what I did for my girlfriend...  I have hypnotized her on a number
of occasions, so I decided to do the instant orgasm on command.  One night I
said to her, "Baby, tonight when I hypnotize you, something wonderful is
going to happen."  She said "OK!"

I used fractionation and a ten minute induction to put her very deeply into
trance.  Then I said to her "You follow my commands very well. And you
follow my commands instantly. And you follow my commands powerfully. In a
moment, you are going to experience something wonderful. And it is going to
happen instantly. And it is going to happen powerfully.  Tonight, when I
tell you to 'cum like a good girl' you will INSTANTLY have the most
incredibly powerful, total mind and body orgasm you could ever imagine. And
it is going to happen powerfully. And it is going to happen instantly. And
it is going to happen.... NOW! CUM LIKE A GOOD GIRL! Cum like a GOOD girl!
CUM like a GOOD GIRL!"  She started cuming very vocally, and very
powerfully.  I continued encouraging her.  She continued cuming.  This went
on for 40 seconds. (I timed it!)  She was having a real orgasm.

Then I told her to relax.  After she caught her breath, I put her back down
into deep trance.  Then I said "When I count to 3, you will keep your eyes
closed, and you will remain in trance, and we will have conversation.
1....2....3 (snap) Hi Baby! How do you feel?"  She slowly and breathlessly
said "Oh my God!"  I said "You came very hard."  She said "Oh yes, and I
came for so long. How did I do that?"  I said "Because you followed my
command."  I waited to see if she had anything else to add, but she was
speechless.  So I put her back down into deep trance.  And then I did it
again.  And it worked again.

Then I extended the suggestion into her conscious realm by saying: "At any
time in the future, even when you are fully conscious, whenever I say those
words to you, it will happen. And it will happen instantly. And it will
happen powerfully. Just like it is going to happen NOW! Cum like a GOOD
girl!"  And it worked again.

Then I brought her up to light trance and said "Hi Baby, how do you feel?"
She slowly said "I feel wonderful."  I said "You feel very naughty because
you know you are a multi-orgasmic woman who can have one orgasm right after
another orgasm right after another orgasm. That makes you feel very naughty
right now, doesn't it?"  "Oh yes."  "But you want to be a good girl, don't
you?"  "Yes."  "Cum like a GOOD girl!"

Then I sent her back into deep trance.  I reinforced the suggestion that she
is a multi-orgasmic woman who can have as many orgasms as she wants, as
frequently as she wants.  Then I took her all the way out of hypnosis.

She said "Hi David."  I said "Hi Baby, how are you?"  She said "Oh my God.
How did I do that?"  I said "Because you followed my commands. It can happen
at any time. Even when we are out to dinner.  Even when we are out dancing.
That makes you feel very naughty doesn't it baby?"  "Oh yes"  "Knowing that
all I have to say is CUM like a GOOD girl!"  And she came while fully

Later I asked her what the orgasm was like.  She said "I did not know where
the orgasm came from. It was like everything between my knees and my belly
button was tingly when I came. After I came, that whole area was warm, and
my head was warm."

The next night I tested the command and it worked instantly.  Then I
repeatedly fired off the command, one right after the other, non stop.  She
was able to take it, and she was loving it.  I lost count somewhere after

Other things I have done for her is, I have made her cum continuously for as
long as I tell her to.  One time she came continuously for an entire hour.

I have written a book about the use of hypnosis to give women incredible
pleasure.  It includes these things, and other things that are far more
wild.  See


>Monday Night (HOOPS)
> ... I'm driving her direction, but no address, no directions
>So I get to within 5 miles of her place, it's about 10:30 pm, and ...she
starts flaking on me
>...where (maybe it's perfectly obvious to everyone but me), exactly, did I
>screw up?

Be very careful to avoid situations where you are the one left hanging out
on a branch depending on information or action from her. Women seem to love
to maneuver us into such situations.
You: Sure, I'll come over, what's the address?
Her: I'll tell you later as you get close.
You: Good idea, I'll call you if I need guidance when I get close, but what
is the address so I can look at a map.
Her: Don't worry, I'll tell you later as you get close.
You: Well, generally when I drive to somewhere, I like to know where I'm
Her: I'd feel more comfortable.
You: Well, you're right, I'd feel more comfortable knowing where I'm going.
Her: I don't know...
You: Your friends might not feel more comfortable knowing where they're
going, but hey, it's your choice. Don't worry about it, I am going to go
visit a
friend now. I'll call ya tomorrow!
Note: Be certain not to call tomorrow, but the day after


> >Brother Diamond:
> >I've been trying to talk to lesbians and study
> >them...what makes them tick and so on.  Can anybody
> >give any concrete info on why they view themselves the
> >way they do and how it happens?  It seems as far as I
> >can tell it depends on how they view their origins,
> >as either being born like this or just completely
> >tired of men for good and turn to women instead.
> >Any thoughts on this and the fact that most of them are assholes to men?

I have had a lesbian friend since high school. We are deeply
connected, close and kinda like soulmates. We're both intelligent,
friendly and optimistic persons, which is pretty much how we found
out about our connection. This girl is clever! HIGH IQ, she ain't no
screwball! She's NEVER an asshole to ANYONE, men or women.
In fact, the relationship I have with her is as good as with any male
friends I have.

She's gay because women turn her on. It's as simple as that. She
likes breasts just like I like breasts. She loves the curves, the
smile, the hair, the tenderness, the kino. She gets turned on the
VERY SAME things that turn us men on.

That's why she's a lesbian: she feels that wonderful sensation, that
only women can give you. She feels she's born like this. She's
simply attracted by female characteristics, and therefore have no
need for male sex, cause that would pretty much be like having
sex with someone of your own (!) gender. Can you see?


Mystery wrote:
> >Basically, all binary systems of logic fantasize about a mythic
> >concept called "the absolute truth". They have that in common
> >with the major world religions, Marxism, and various other
> >theologies used to enslave humanity over the millennia.
> To make an answer b&w we must also make the question b&w.

Yah, you do.  And when you do, you're consistently asking
for less information than is there to be had.  You lose the
ability to say how true a statement is.  It's useful to know
if something's 90% true -- it means there's some leverage
there, it's worth acting on that information to see if you
get a desirable outcome.  And, you can't say things like
"Hmm, she's giving me a lot of eye contact, she's showing
off her tits at me, her muscle tone is high and her face
is flushed, therefore I conclude she might consider doing
me ...".  Sure, the observed behaviors are B&W, and there's
a high degree of correlation between those behaviors and
getting laid for me (and most men I think), but I can't
finish the statement by saying, " ... therefore she WILL
screw me ...".

With human behavior, my experience is that facts being 90%
true are stunningly powerful.  Dealing with human behaviour,
I generally look for 80% solutions, and call them good enough.
It's simply not worth the time it takes to generate a theory
of everything.
> >Dualistic logic by its nature creates poor maps of reality: it's
> >much truer to say that all statements bear varying degrees of
> >truth or falsehood lying somewhere between totally false and
> >totally true. True, all statements can be simplified to yes
> >and no questions, but that just means that some clever bastard
> >can choose which yes or no question suits his purposes best
> >(why we despise lawyers): "Sir, have you stopped beating your
> >wife yet?"
> Since that is not a black and white question and implies or
> rather BEGS another question, we call that question quite
> COLORFUL.  My B&W metaphor is not put just on the answer but
> the question.

That question has a yes or no answer.  It's true the question
isn't acceptable in decent (in the sense that Sen. McCarthy
wasn't decent) discourse.  But it seems that B&W is becoming
rather more than digital 1's and 0's.
> >My guess is, and I admit I'm reading your mind
> >here, you're using Randi's name to make someone wrong, without
> >taking responsibility for it.
> I didn't bring up his name.  I am not appealing to authority here as you
> imply.  I use the scientific method even on scientific derived concepts.

You're right, you didn't, and I've already admitted to it without
you having to point it out to me.  But raving on and on about how
great someone is, is a powerful mechanism for associating yourself
with that greatness, which is where I was going with that.
> >2) Exactly which sense of "rationalization" do you mean? Randi
> > polemicizes, so I think he definitely shades into the sense
> > of rationalization which means to prove a point with ulterior
> > motives, which he actually makes no bones about. You have
> > ulterior motives too, buddy. Feel free to acknowledge them
> > whenever you want to.
> Seeking the most REASONABLE answer to a simple question is
> the PRIME motivation.  Should we derive secondary benefits
> like monetary value for spreading memes is beside the point.

REASONABLE is a fuzzy concept.  Some things are more reasonable
than others.  How do we decide what's more reasonable?  How does
one decide what reasonable enough is?  Rigorous standards of
scientific proof certainly have their place, but each area of
science needs appropriate standards.  B.F. Skinner did lots of
science, by anyone's standards -- He just never did any science
about human beings.  Milton H. Erickson did no science by many
people's (including yours, apparently) standards, but he absolutely
could and did change people's behaviors quickly and powerfully.

And, I'm far more cynical about prime motivations: since when do
people create anything from an abstract, idealistic conception of
REASON instead of PERSONAL BENEFIT?  I've never seen it happen.
Which is not to say that people who spread  memes that work for
more people than just themselves and a chosen few don't benefit
humanity, and shouldn't be rewarded.
> >3) The axioms of all binary systems of logic (Boolean algebra,
> >Aristotle's syllogisms, statistics) can be derived from the
> >axioms of fuzzy logic.
> And the other way round coincidentally.  Think about that.

No, not the other way around.  To go from a discrete theory
(1's and 0's) to a fuzzy theory, one must introduce concepts
that exist outside any discrete theory.  That math's been done
for quite a while.
> >5) Your accusation of MYSTICISM is nothing but name-calling.
> > Your claim that TRANCE and HYPNOTISM are somehow COLORFUL
> > terms, rather than technical terms describing known and
> > understood human behaviours merely underscores how little
> > you know. Just hogwash.
> Blah. You are conveying NOTHING.  These TECHNICAL terms
> cannot be translated into concrete concepts.  Can a computer
> become HYPNOTIZED? Why not? What must we do to a computer to
> allow it become hypnotized?  And what IS a trance?  Can you
> explain it from a PHYSICS point of view (from a neuroanatomy
> point of view?)?

Let me see here:
1) HYPNOSIS and TRANCE is observed with the normal human eyes
   and ears, as well as specialized instrumentation like EEGs
2) I and others can point to TRANCE and HYPNOSIS when we see
   and hear it happening, and agree among ourselves that it's
   HYPNOSIS and TRANCE being demonstrated.
3) HYPNOTISM explains under what conditions the phenomena we
   call HYPNOSIS and TRANCE can occur.
4) I and others can predictably HYPNOTIZE and TRANCE myself
   and others, using knowledge derived from our theory of
7) I and others can teach someone else how to HYPNOTIZE and
   TRANCE themselves and other people.
6) HYPNOTISM explains what observable results in human behaviour
   may be obtained with HYPNOSIS and TRANCE.
7) I and others can repeatably use HYPNOSIS and TRANCE to
   obtain desired results in observed behavior of ourselves
   and other people, again using what we know from the theory
8) I and others can teach someone else how to obtain desired
   results in human behaviour themselves and other people,
   using HYPNOTISM and TRANCE.

Why in hell do I have to make it understood from a neuroanatomy
POV, when the proper way to understand and interact with the
phenomena is with your own eyes and ears and mouth, not a SQUID
(Superconducting Quantum Interference Device, they use it for
measuring brain activity at a very low level).  That's just like
trying to explain alpha males and alpha females in terms of
neuroanatomy, when we're talking about behavior, or asking what
it takes to make an alpha male» out of a computer.

One other thought: once upon a time, people didn't know why
free floating magnets oriented themselves on the poles.  That
didn't stop them from making use of them ... And they would
have been fools to keep themselves from using them just because
they didn't have a Theory of Electromagnetism; all they knew
was the needle pointed close enough to true North to make a
difference in how they went about the business of navigation...
> > Memes are behaviour patterns
> > that transmit themselves from person to person simply by
> > being observed; acquisition of memes happens instantaneously.
> > Memes are things like the difference between up and down,
> > seeing life as a journey, believing there is one and only
> > one right answer.
> Yes, they are all memes.  Believing one simple b&w statement
> has more than one conclusive state is also a meme.  "The earth
> is flat AND round."

Propositions have more than one conclusive state when they
are proposed in the light of different sets of initial
conditions.  We're arguing initial conditions.

My point is, memes directly affect your perceptions ... Some
people don't have the meme about the difference between up and
down, and they make damn fine fighter pilots, because they
don't need to know where the ground is to know where they are.
> >Conditioned, learned behaviours take practice (doing it more
> >than once) to perfect. You can't have it both ways, unless
> >we're talking double penetrations. Ironically, you're throwing
> >memetics at this list, at a time when there still exists major
> >controversy regarding the validity and usefulness of memetics.
> I can find controversy with EVOLUTION, too - doesn't mean the
> controversy is warranted.

Nor is your attempt to create controversy around hypnotism
warranted.  Thanks, you illustrated my point precisely : )


>>Get the chick to a peak, then whisper in her ear,
>>I LOVE YOU.......(draw back, get strong eye contact and say)
>>IN GOD'S WAY. In my experience, good for strippers too, because
>>they have to process it as a challenge of not being sexy enough)
>>Also, leaves you wide open as to where you want to go with
>>your follow-up on any chick cause you really haven't ripped
>>her...and they usually have no fucking clue about how to respond.
>Wow.  Dude, that is warped shit.  I THINK I like it.  I'm gonna try it out
>to see how they respond - I mean if some girl did that to me I'd be ...
>confused.  That's interesting stuff.  "I love you ... in God's way."  How
>the intonation?

Enigma: (Responding to Mystery)

Depends on who I'm talking to and what the situation is.
Basically, I'll either use it as:
1) A part of an ambiguous pattern interrupt to MINDFUCK a chick while
setting a sliding anchor for the elicited emotional response

2) As the climax to an increasingly powerful series of takeaways

In the 1st situation, I create an urgency for the chick to respond to
me by presenting her with a finite "window of opportunity." Either she moves
toward the exploration of the physical and emotional highs she is presently
experiencing or she lives with "missing out".  After future pacing these
possible alternatives and pacing the ongoing reality with them (and
KINO), I use the "I Love You" statement to peak the high and create the
state of suggestibility I'm looking for.

I set her up for this by leading her imagination through increasingly
heightened states of connection/pleasure through story telling and the
corresponding KINO.  When she's worked up enough, I'll drop the line and
simultaneously set a sliding anchor on her arm or inner thigh using an
upward motion. (It has to be on an area I can easily reach later on when I'm
fucking her, so I can fire-off the anchor as she is having an orgasm;
sliding upward in intensity to set up a combined anchor of two extremely
powerful experiences. Even better if you get her to scream your name. hehe)

Anyway, hearing "I love U" will automatically  set off a powerful
emotional response inside her.  The corresponding takeaway serves to relieve
you of the responsibility the words carry with them while giving you the
benefits of the MINDFUCK, the anchor, & the opportunity to embed some
kick-ass commands with little to no resistance.  I usually go into heavy SS
and metaphor after the takeaway. Goes something like this: I can say......I LOVE YOU.....IN GODS WAY.....of looking at
things....those words...and the feelings they contain...are the most
important things in life....and when YOU FEEL IT.... deep inside ...
anchor)....what it's fall deeply in love...NOW...with me...etc.

Tonality is constant throughout the dialogue so it all runs together.
The ambiguity of where the stories stop and the statement of "I love You"
runs together makes it impossible to process when the "innocuous"
takeaway is added.

BTW, I always say this into the chick's ear (with no eye contact),
so I don't fuck it up with the wrong facial expression, and I get to further
accelerate the KINO with some ear lobe stimulation.

In the 2nd situation I'll use it as a climax to an increasingly
powerful progression of corresponding verbal and emotional takeaways.
Works really well with the cocky club chicks who CANNOT resist the
challenge you present to her. (I usually start off with something like
Why women are such poor communicators.....) Never fails to get a response.

I go back and forth with her, changing my emotional output as I go. I
have an over-all attitude of joking confidence with occasional
interrupts of "genuine" romantic interest. I'll throw in a description of
putting her over my knee and giving her a good spanking if she continues to
mis-behave....and watch for the indicators...etc..and continue.

I do the takeaways with almost what a stand-up would do when delivering
a "dead-panned" punch line.  Almost an under-the breath type of thing, but
always within a playful context.   This seems to effectively push her to
emotional (or physical - depending on the chick) highs that become too
for her to control, but she won't give up because she doesn't want to lose
the sparring contest.  Then you drop the "I love You" bomb, and wait.  When
she tries to recover and respond, do the takeaway.  WHAT YOU SAY NEXT, after
the takeaway, makes all the difference in how she perceives it.  As long as
it's not taken as a "put down" you will be in. I'll usually follow
with....IN GOD'S WAY.....but since we aren't in church and you feel the need
to be punished... for being such a bad girl tonight....what's it like when
feel like such a bad girl... NOW.....etc.

Any suggestions on improving/evolving this are welcome!

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Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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