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"A real PUA (not a poon-hound or a Playa…)"

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A real PUA (not a poon-hound or a Playa…)
5/17/01 6:10:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Here's my take on the Awaken Unafraid seminar:
Yes, Marknosis and Stevenosis Rule!
What an amazing weekend with Major Mark and Steve Piccus.
I thought SS was the best thing since sliced bread but you just haven't
lived till you've absorbed some of that Mark-ness and Steve-ness in a live
Already 2 days have gone by and I still feel that rocket booster attached to
my back and the wild ride just keeps on going. I feel like a Jedi on coke

The dynamic duo from the Trance state, not only rewired our limiting beliefs
they gave us the tools to share the wealth we uncovered during the weekend.
And guess what? Sharing the wealth feels just as good as receiving it.

The whole group had a great time, and if you can't tell yet, I did as well.

This seminar gets two thumbs up.  If you haven't done it yet and you want to
improve your skills, go see Mark and or Steve live.  Can you spell "you'll
get your money's worth, and more." That's my quick take on the seminar.


>. So the first thing, is to recategorize her statement,
>as just a behavior

STOP!  That is the entire point; responses are often just that:
BEHAVIORS. Automatically generated by environmental cues! They are
NOT necessarily in any way reflective of what a woman will actually
DO, given a different environment or different way of looking at

The major understanding to have here is not Rick's specific
responses, which are very good, to be sure. The major understanding
is that 90% of a woman's INITIAL "resistance" is really just
auto-pilot behavior. Once you take them off auto-pilot, they become
deeply suggestible and EASILY led.
>Yeah, I am 35 and I get this slow pitched softball on occasion (pointing to
>the left field bleachers...LOL). I love this one. It's one of my favorite
>topics because you can do so much to powerfully set the frame in such a
>short amount of time. These reframes work on the principal of "another
>i.e.: it's not what they thought it was.
>I often ask their age first...
>Lets say, she says "18"
>I'll say something like... "Oh my God, that's like 36 in girl years, you're
>older than me... what's up with that? Another couple years, I'll be
>you into the home."  (All done with the busting their balls kind of smirk).

I like this.  Lately, I've been turning it around by bringing it up
first, as Rick does, but adding in the following

"You know, I have to tell you frankly that you seem like a nice
and sincere person, but I often have lots of trouble with girls your
age.  I'm sure YOU are not this way, but my buddy Steve and I both
say that most girls under 25 are just unbelievably flaky. They don't
do what they say they are going to, don't show up...and so, whenever
they do that, mentally, we add 5 lbs. of fat to their legs and hips
and ass and thighs and tummies...and there are lots of women YOUR age
waddling around at 300 lbs. in OUR minds."
>Then if they defend their youth..."I'm young and sexy...bla bla bla"
>I might respond..."Well, to be fair, you still have a couple of years
>left...but not too long. I mean just look at the models... these are the
>girls going and they start at like 13 or 14, by 18 they are veterans in the
>industry, and by 22 or 23 they are already losing work to the younger and
>cuter girls. And by 25... forget it.... they are a dinosaur, I mean
>it's.....all ....over.

I think this would work with women who primarily want to be viewed
and evaluated on their looks and especially club girls/hotties/hootchy
mamas.  A girl with some serious brains might smack ya for it.
>"That's convenient, it gives you something to do when you are not with me.
>don't want you turning into a stalker or some kind of freak. You aren't one
>are you?"

That one, I love.
>Brother Marcus:
>  > Stephanie (from private email):
>  > I found your comment, "Your comment about feeling safe and comfortable
>  > with him is very interesting -- I think this is what most of women want
>  > with the excitement still there.  The problem is that once they feel a
>guy is
>  > safe, he usually ceases to be exciting any more"
>What you need to do here rapport, discover what she really
>wants, demonstrate by, the very nature of who you are, you have the
>ability to give it to her, then don't. Furthermore, never give direct
>answers unless the answer is no.

I think that would work on the very women I am trying to avoid:
drama queens. If you put out cat food, don't be shocked when only
cats show up.

Occasionally or OFTEN not giving direct answers, I can get behind.
But "NEVER"? That seems to me to be bait for some seriously damaged
and deranged women, women with shitter-self-esteeming.  Ok, so you
get to bang them and use their bodies? Then what?

If you want to make chili, you have to put SOME meat in it.
>This will provide her plenty of intrigue,
>drama, and discussion topics for her girlfriends.

Too much drama = stalker.


> Ebderm:
> >Hypno Bill:
> >... have read "What the hell do women really want."
> >... women want powerful men....
> I ask you, have you seen the movie "Titanic"?
> Why did Rose choose to die for penniless Jack
> and dump her rich, powerful, handsome, fiancé,
> who bought her the world's biggest diamond?
> Answer:
> The character Jack was 1) fun, 2) exciting, and
> 3) he was able to connect her on a deeper level.
> However, in the real world, women often seem to prefer
> jerks, who do not supply #3 above.
> Somebody, please explain.

It's not that these men are jerks, it's that they provide her with 1 and 2.
All 3 are not necessary for a short term relationship. It's been my
experience that a lot of women are involved in relationships that provide
none of these characteristics.
I think the appeal of bad boys is the appeal of a challenge. Most attractive
women have no challenges in their life socially. They want to feel that they
personally have accomplished something by winning the bad boy.
Look at your life, have there ever been any women that you were attracted
to where it just seemed too easy. They were so into you that you just felt
the longing for something more. It's a stage that we all go through when we
are exploring our sexual influence over the world. BUT everything I say is a


>3) he was able to connect her on a deeper level.
>However, in the real world, women often seem to prefer
>jerks, who do not supply #3 above.
>Somebody, please explain.

You need to go to the nice guys vs. jerks manifesto at,
where Hypno Bill will undoubtedly send you....But basically the ladies go
for jerks in the real world because the only other item available to them is
the garden variety AFC, and there is nothing worse to a female than an AFC
when she wants sex. If they want a friend to unload problems on, or someone
to boost their ego, then a chump will do fine. But Leonardo wasn't a chump
in this movie, either.
A girl meeting what she really wants (Prince Charming, Mr. Right, The PUA)
in the real world is something that usually doesn't happen in the girl's
lifetime. Why else would so many wonderful women be married to men that
can't connect with them like we PUA's can?
A girl meeting a real PUA (not a poon-hound or a Playa or a rich-playboy
type, mind you, but an SSer or similar type) is so rare that she feels like
this may be her only chance to have a real connection with a man, since all
of the men she's met in her life were sexually dull comparatively. So you
get away with alot more.
There is another part to the hero equation of the character in Titanic.
4)  Leonardo's character didn't supplicate.  (Actually he did by dieing in
the water, but that was after he'd already won her heart and the only other
option was to throw her off the friggin' piece of drift!!)


Here are some seduction related sites worth checking out:
is a recent URL and it has a great theory about alpha's.


> > Rick:
> [snip]
> I say.... "Well, if I was a woman, you would be right, I would be
> I'd be getting you to wheel me around between my hot flashes" (all done in
> busting their balls kind of playfulness.) "But age doesn't matter
> for guys. It doesn't. We're not judged by that criteria. I've been dating
> the same aged girls for 15 years. Every year I get older and they stay the
> age, it's amazing how that works (laugh). Is it fair? No, but I don't make
> the rules, I am just very aware of what they are."
> Ebderm:
> I ask you, have you seen the movie "Titanic"?
> Why did Rose choose to die for penniless Jack
> and dump her rich, powerful, handsome, fiancé,
> who bought her the world's biggest diamond?
> Answer:
> The character Jack was 1) fun, 2) exciting, and
> 3) he was able to connect her on a deeper level.
> However, in the real world, women often seem to prefer
> jerks, who do not supply #3 above.
> Somebody, please explain.

Dude, that was a movie. Anyway, more to the point. You want A, B and C.
Obviously they are hard to find or you'd already have them. So A and B come
along. If A and B are compelling enough you either give up on C for a while,
or you rationalize C into existence. Since in the case you pointed out "C"
isn't even a real thing, how hard is it to create mentally.
> Joseph:
> Don Juan Pattern -[snip]
> "It will only take a second. I am Don Juan Demarco," says the Don. (This
> not the exact transcript, during this there is some fluff talk when she's
> asking him if he's in a circus because the movie is set in the 20th
> and Don Juan is dressed like....Don Juan...but this isn't important for

Actually to a degree it is important, but only as it acts as an interrupt.
Interrupts can be very effective for transitioning into pattern language.
> Now I just usually ask if they've seen the movie and say "My favorite part
> is when Don Juan walks into the restaurant and says "Don Juan Pattern"

You use a softener in the place of an interrupt. I usually do to. But not
always. Interrupts are hard because they tend to break rapport whereas a
softener should usually build it.
> Mathieu:
>[snipped part on ruining sex for "the Italian"]
> Guess what? I think that's why she's not calling back...

NO SHIT! You completely ruined her sex life with her BF, she's probably both
scared and pissed. Anyway, be careful, you're likely to over sarge this
which could end with a real head case on your hands.
> But she's Italian, she seems
> to have a good heart and her boyfriend seems to be the nicest guy and she
> can't hurt him or something like that. Next time I manage to see her, I am
> going to create a pattern comparing her relationship with a prison or the
> process of drowning or choking....

You are a mean bastard :-) I'm glad you're not sarging any of my female
> Maxin:
> Regarding age related questions:
> You can also add 20 years to both of your ages and ask her if it would
> still matter, ask her if she was a 40 year old woman, would she be
> concerned about being with a 55 year old man?

Be careful with this one. She may not like the either of these ideas very
much, yielding aversion.


> My Comment: I think there is a distinction between making an effort
> it is a real effort) and where when you do things for someone because you
> want to and the energy is expended comparatively effortlessly.

After spending the weekend with Markness and Steveness, I'd have to say that
the seduction portion of the program shouldn't be so much "real effort."
They only do what they want to. Ross, too. He enjoys the process of
"recruiting," even if it does require energy. As best as I can tell, they
like to play and do it a lot because they want to and they enjoy it. Not
precisely the straining effort you seem to describe (your own experience? I
hope not).

Of course, once a couple has trained each other in good ways, things can get
even better. The pleasures experienced can be applied to new behaviors (i.e.
taking out the garbage can become a pleasure anchor). The thing is, you can
enjoy giving any decent person a good feeling -- the "effort" that leads her
to want further experiences with you -- while less pleasant tasks (taking
out her garbage) are probably not needed to get that coffee meeting.


Lately I've been talking to lots of chicks and I'm getting
quite skilled at pure SS techniques such as patterning, themes, building
connection, rapport, etc.  But I have not yet been able to close the deal
yet. I believe it's because I don't manifest that "I'm the prize" attitude.
You've talked in the past about how attitude is one of the most important
things. Any advice on how I can manifest that attitude.


I had replied to a newspaper personal ad with an NLP response.  That
generated a phone call and we spoke for over an hour... ending with us
planning a tentative date.  Before the date, she sent an email saying she
"didn't really feel a connection" and was calling off the date.  My response
was to send her the following reply to her email.  Will wait to see how/if
she responds:

* * * * * * * * *
Hi Monica

I'm surprised... because I thought we were connecting on the same wave
length.  Perhaps you didn't feel that incredible connection as we spoke and
maybe you didn't feel incredibly fascinated by what I said and as you recall
reading those words... but when you find yourself in a place where you can't
feel that incredible connection, then it is better to close off your mind
and begin to think things differently.

I am sure that a delightfully wonderful woman such as yourself has an
unlimited number of quality guys to choose from, all perhaps similar to the
relationships you are used to having, as you have had them in the past... as
those guys treat you as perhaps you've been treated and as they give you
those same emotions and experiences that you know so well... perhaps to the
point where you know them so well and can recall them just like that...  and
as you look forward to years and years of continuing those experiences like
as you have experienced in those past relationships... perhaps even
picturing yourself 30 or more years from now having what you possess right
now... and looking back at the present as the beginning of that... well, how
could I possibly compete with that?

It is always important for you to trust what is in your own mind, in your
own mind realizing that if those incredible feelings you had when we made
our acquaintance no longer exist then why would you question your own mind
when you can imagine, the way I know you can, that it is better for me to
shower my attention and affections upon another woman, and for you to follow
the direction that your heart is leading you, as you realize what you are
truly seeking in that relationship.

So... as we move on, no matter what we may encounter in the future... and
who can predict the future, who even knows how many more times the door of
opportunity will swing open for us... that at least we have had a few
enjoyable moments... even to the degree that we did... and you can always
recall those things that lead you to call and speak with me that time,
remembering those things inside your own mind as you move ahead with your

Thanks for bringing a smile to my face, Monica.  I hope that, as you
consider those qualities that make you happy... that make you laugh and have
fun... and that give you safety and contentment, you will realize what you
are looking for.

My Comment: I didn't like your letter.  Too wordy, too negative, too logical
(see Rick's comments in my last email).  I don't have time to go through it
point by point, but perhaps someone else can offer some advice.


I'd like to pass on that I'm happy with Bishop and his service. I have
just skimmed the "Complete" Unlimited Lover. I feel enthusiastic about
the sex tips I'll be trying out on my dream woman. His insights on the
relationship between a man's character and his charisma strike a chord,
too. I'm not sure what to make of the touchless orgasm yet, but overall
I'm satisfied.


Hypno Bill:
Natural Leader is a new tape for the Nice Guy. Imagine being able to have
the personal power needed to calmly call women on their B.S.  This tape has
a great reframe that gives you permission to do the things you want to do as
it helps to remove old limits. What would it be to be able to just radiate
that sense of personal power that women really like in a guy. And you might
be surprised to find that this tape also gives you have permission to
succeed with women to the point where you actually enjoy success. All at the
deepest levels of your mind.
Expect good is another new tape. Here you are able to focus your attention
on what is good in your life and give yourself praise for taking action and
learning from any flub ups. Understanding that flub ups are a natural part
of the learning process. If you were to approach an HB and make a flub up,
now with this tape you give yourself praise for approaching her. It's time
you gave yourself credit for what it is you are doing right. And then you
take any flub ups as a natural part of learning. So let me ask you what
would it feel like if you begin to make more approaches and learn from them,
so that you actually begin to have success.
My original tape was a builder of confidence, self assertion, release of
negative emotions and self image with women. This is the tape I created to
give my success a big boost in the early days of studying Speed Seduction». I
gave one to a Bro and he gave a good testimonial on This list.
The two newest tapes are recorded in stereo for best results use with stereo
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Send money order to
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About the age thing:
When I was twenty I thought 25 was old. So 35 is, like, totally old! Almost
dead to these young thangs. And I think most people under thirty in general,
both men and females, have a problem with us old folks. They have some ugly
stereotype of people over thirty, so these kids tell me. To them, people who
are older are fat and wrinkled, uncool, boring, dress badly, use big words,
etc. And if a guy happens to physically fit that over-thirty stereotype in
that young girl's head then I guess that guy must (or at least appear to)
break that stereotype in another way (be hip to their music, or something
else important in their world) if he's going to get anywhere with her.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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