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"Don't forget rule #1"

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Don't forget rule #1
6/2/01 8:35:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time

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Formhandle:
"Time to get your asses kicked"

Been busy at work and refining my PU style, adjusting for a new model.

Dante & I headed up to Montreal last weekend and I remembered that Clifford
happened to live in Montreal so I dropped him a line and we decided to hook
up & do PU's around town.  Cliff's a great guy and has a lot of insights -
coming from
years of hanging around skilled PUA's and running his list.  Dante & I were
doing our usual PU stuff on the streets of Montreal before meeting up with
Cliff.  "Usual" in the sense that we initiate good openers, pace through the
fluff pretty easily, build a lot of strong rapport, show personality,
mirror,
kino, pattern, then close.  Cliff also observed our style and said that we
ask a lot of questions whereas he prefers a more direct approach (no fluff,
directly into attraction).  I will leave out our specific methods, except to
say that Cliff does, indeed, know what he's doing and has a great handle on
things.  He even got a BJ from a chick he just met at a party we went to
that
night.  Anyway, this post isn't about our PU's of that day, or the party, or
Cliff's style or our style.  This post is about the next day at a dim sum
brunch I will call the "David brunch".

Cliff invited Dante & I to a brunch he was having on Sunday which included a
bunch of guys on his list and a special "guest", a guy named David who Cliff
has known since he was a teenager.  Apparently, David is a master PU artist.
Shit, I hate even using the word artist because his philosophy and skill is
not based on anything artistic.  Most of the guys had sat down for the dim
sum and then David showed up with his 2 kids.  I kid you not, this guy had a
6-year-old and a 1-year-old in tow.  The guy was 50, I guess, and married
but
apparently has gotten his share of women through the years.  At first, I was
my usual skeptical self until this guy started talking.  He sounded exactly
like my PUA friend Danny from years ago (who could pull chicks
left-and-right).  Same philosophy about women, same humor, same overall
demeanor and mannerisms.  It's like they came from the same mold.  Once he
started talking to all the guys at the table, answering questions, insulting
us, hitting us over the head with his rules, the floodgates of PUA wisdom
poured out.  I knew it wasn't BS because I've known a guy just like him and
I
know what he was saying was the truth.

Let me pull back here and mention something my wing Dante has said in the
past, something which I agree with and helped clarify with him.  PUA's, the
good ones, tend to learn more by modeling real masters rather than other
PUA's
or random guys doing pure PU (which is rare outside of bars/clubs).
However,
being a good PUA is like getting a virus, sort of like getting the flu.  You
can emulate the symptoms, but until you have the actual virus you'll never
really be "natural" at it or know how to work situations like second nature.
You can practice all the bits of knowledge on ASF, the web sites, Cliff's
list, Ross' stuff, etc. but you'll never be a true PUA (who doesn't have to
actively think about what he's doing) unless you "get the virus".  This all
made sense to me & Dante but for the past couple months we have not been
clear as to how one "gets" the virus.

Well, David is the virus.  Or, at least, his knowledge and set of rules and
philosophies is the virus.  It's all clear now.  Just follow his Rule#1 and
everything else just naturally falls into place.  Follow his other rules and
you'll never need to question what to do next or whether what you are doing
is right for the PU.  What he talked about didn't include things like
Cialdini principals of social proof or examples of group-set tactics that
guys like Mystery like to use (although these things will enhance your
overall game).  Instead, he focused primarily on self-attitudes and sets of
clear, concise rules, which guys who want to PU with the greatest success
should live by.  I am laying out these rules now in this report. Whenever in
doubt about ANY of your PU's or ANYthing you think you should or
shouldn't do, live by the following:

The biggest thing guys do wrong when doing a PU, the biggest thing that
fucks
them up is caring what the chick is thinking.  Caring what's going on in her
head and worrying about whether she thinks this or thinks that or if she
will
do this or that.

So, Rule#1 is:
Don't care what she's thinking.

That doesn't mean don't try to understand women in general, it means don't
care what a specific chick is thinking at any specific time.  Just don't
care.  If you do, you'll be thinking for 2 people while she may very well be
thinking for nobody.  Just let it go.  What you may be thinking about what's
on her mind is ONLY what you think is going on, most likely totally wrong
anyway.  Stop thinking what she's thinking and stop thinking FOR her.
You'll
end up with less worries, have twice the brainpower available for yourself,
and will come across as more direct and powerful.

A word of note here that the first thing out of David's mouth when he sat
down at the table was to look at us all and call us pussies.  "If you don't
have any balls, what do you have left?  You're all pussies!"

The next set of rules is more self-explanatory and I've tried to order them
in rank of importance.  Beyond Rule#1, David didn't present the following as
rules but rather just major pieces of the needed attitudes to get a PU done
properly (and closed properly).  I'll elaborate where necessary.

2. Don't forget rule #1
3. Follow through.  That means, if you say you're going to do something, do
it.  If you get her worked up over something you are going to do with or to
her, follow through.  If you don't follow through, women will hate you for
it.
4. Have control.  Keep control.  You either have control or you don't.  And
if you have control, you can either keep it or not.  So when you have
control, keep it.
5. Make rules and stick to them.  These are YOUR rules.  Things like "I
don't
tolerate no-shows." or "I'll say something ONCE - I do not repeat myself."
Don't be afraid to tell chicks your rules as long as you know you won't
break
those rules in front of them.  Most guys don't have any rules so you will,
at
minimum, set yourself apart.
6. Don't break your own rules, ever.  Once you break one of your own rules
in
front of a chick, you will begin lose control of your situation with that
chick.
7. Have a structure and stick to it, no matter what.  Be consistent.  This
also relates to having a set of rules and sticking to it.
8. When part of your structure doesn't work consistently, analyze that part,
figure out why it doesn't work, and repair just that part.  Don't replace
your whole structure just because one aspect of it doesn't work right.  Fix
just that part and keep improving your structure over time.
9. Be aggressive and direct when initially approaching chicks.  Don't beat
around the bush.  Chicks don't have a clue why you're there - tell them.
Just don't be crude about it.
10. Don't lie, but you don't have to give them the whole truth, either.
Never lie to a chick - it's not worth it.  The truth is always better and
it's easier to remember.  "The best lie is the truth."
11. Be decisive and lead.  Chicks need to be lead.  They don't want an
indecisive pussy.  Don't say, "I don't know... what time is good for you?"
Say "I'll be there at 6 O'clock.  Meet me then."  Don't be afraid to be a
little late.  They hate it when you're early and hate you even more when
you're right on time.  Make them wait a bit.  They will respect you.  If
they
disrespect your time, drop them.

He also said random things that aren't part of his rule set but the ones
I remember are worth noting:
 - If her rule is better than yours, go by her rule.  For example, he said
one time he got with this chick that told him she gave her last man "12
tickets" per year which he could use any time but no more than 12 per year.
(These were tickets to fuck.)  So David went with this logic, used up all 12
"tickets" as fast as he could (a few days, maybe) and then got rid of the
chick ASAP because he thought she was useless after that.  She soon went
chasing after him, breaking her
own rule.
 - If, before meeting them and on the phone, you ask her what she thinks her
best feature is and she says "my eyes", dump her.  She will not be worth
meeting.
 - When you're with a chick, don't be afraid to look at her body, especially
the parts you like.  If she asks what you're doing say, "I'm looking at your
body, your tits, your ass."  If she takes offence to that, drop her ASAP
because it's clear she's not going to fuck you or not be worth fucking.
 - If a chick resists your come-ons or innuendo, you don't want to spend any
more effort on her because she's not going to fuck you without a lot of
work.
 For example, if she asks "Where are we going tonight?", David says "To bed,
but I'm kind of hungry right now so we're going to get a bite to eat first."
If she gets offended, drop her before taking her to eat because it's clear
she isn't thinking about fucking you.
- Don't ask a chick about any men she's fucked in the past.  If you do and
you haven't fucked her yet, you never will.  If you have already fucked her,
it will be the last time you do.

David said that he was like us until he was about 20.  He wasn't born this
way, he learned how to do it over time.  He said "Wisdom comes from
experience and experience comes from making mistakes and you can only gain a
lot of experience by making a lot of mistakes.  So go out and make a lot of
mistakes."

Now, some of these tactics and attitudes may seem harsh, blunt, and
unforgiving (maybe to the extent of having you lose chicks that may fuck you
after a bit more work) but the point is to waste as little time as possible
finding chicks that will fuck you fast as opposed to the ones that need a
lot
of work.  If you don't have the balls to go out there and have the attitudes
outlined above, what you have left is a pussy.

I haven't posted EVERYTHING from that brunch, but I have outlined most of
the
important points.  I was so affected by the brunch that it had an immediate
affect on how I approach PU.  I lost all fear of approaching any chick that
attracted me and I was no longer concerned with precisely how I opened.  I
also lost my care of any outcome and became able to get to the point much
faster.  10 minutes after Cliff dropped us off downtown after the brunch, I
went into a bookstore, passed up a whole bunch of 8+ HB's, found an HB 9.5,
and in a matter of minutes got her so worked up and excited it was as if she
found her long-awaited 10.  The digits went flying and if I wasn't so caught
off-guard by my perfect execution in the PU, I would have gotten her that
day, if not that hour.  I wish I had my recorder on for it... it was the
most
amazing control I've ever had in a PU.

I'll be posting soon to the list about my personal elaborations on
Mystery's AWARE state, how to take advantage of it, and what I call Approach
Invitations (AIs).

My Comment:  While most of the above is fairly accurate, there are a lot of
subtleties about David's style and tactics that are somewhat inaccurate.
But I have known him for many, many years and I don't think you can pick it
all up from one meeting with him.  Hopefully we will be seeing more from
David one way or the other soon.

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Chris:
I'm newly relocated to South Florida (Boca Raton, which is in the Fort
Lauderdale/Palm Beach area), and if you have any other readers in the area,
I'd love to hear from them at fly***[email protected]***.com[ ? ]

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William:
>Does anyone know a good source for books not available at amazon
>or barnesandnoble? I'm particularly looking for many of the books cited in
the
>references section of "The 48 Laws of Power»" especially a book on Ninon de
>Lenclos (the French Courtesan).

Dr. Love you can try
http://www.abebooks.com/  They have 14 items by that author.
http://www.alibris.com/home.cfm They have 3 items by that author.
http://www.bibliofind.com No matches found.
http://www.bookfinder.com/ They have 7 items by that author.

Found these in less than 5 minutes.

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Vinigarr:
I've recently discovered the power of asking a person
to "pretend" as a method of persuasion/seduction.
What I like most about this method is that it doesn't
require any patterns, metaphors, stories etc. etc.
yet produces results. Here are some examples of
how I used it.

1. Was with a group (6 of my friends and 4 chicks that we met
that day, at a hotel we stayed at) at a club. I asked the
hottest of the 4 girls "See that chick over there (pointing to
a hottie that was not a part of our group)... I want to
ask her some questions, because she looks interesting,
would you come with me.. and pretend that you are
my girl, because I don't want her to think I'm hitting on her."
She agreed, so I grabbed her by the hand and brought her
over so that I could chat up the other chick. While chatting
other girl, I put my arm around "my" hottie. Next, she starts kissing my
neck. I'm playing it up too, calling her "honey" and kissing her as well.
After a few minutes of this, we eject from other girl and
we start making out. Then grinding, petting, etc. About 45 minutes later,
her and I are back at the hotel hittin skins.

2. A few weeks ago I was having sex with a chick. She told
me that when it was time, I should cum on her stomach.
I told her I want to cum in her mouth. She resisted that big time!
Expressing to me that she doesn't do that. My response was "I know that...
just pretend that you do.. It gets me excited.. tell me
to cum in your mouth" she agreed and began to say it,
while we had sex. And she would say it to get me excited
every time we had sex after that (we had sex about 15 times
after that). The other night, she's going down on me, I told her
"if you keep doing that, I'm gonna cum in your mouth".
She responded "OK". Needless to say, she drank me,
like she was dehydrating and I was shooting gatorade
out my schlong.

I plan to use this more often. Do you think chicks
can pretend they are bi-sexual, love anal and whatever
fetish you can think of ? Once they "pretend" a role
it's not long before they act on it. After all, the subconscious
doesn't know the difference. Am I right ?

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Adam:
>Brother Diamond. (aka future immortal):
>I have an interesting reply to a response
>from women.  When I do the absolute beauty skit and
>they get a hair up their ass and say something
>like.."Well, that would take a while to explain" when I
>ask her what she's like inside.. you just say..
>
>I've had some success with this one.  Try it out and see
>for yourself if they get a hairline up their ass and
>talk down to you after you compliment them, throw it
>back at them.  Put their bullshit where it needs to be
>... in their face...if they don't accept your context to
>respond.

Okay... you've recognized something that I have too:  It's an ass-backwards
technique.  You make it hard to win by telling a beautiful woman that she
is beautiful.

1.)  She already knows it.  It's like walking up to a doctor and saying,
"Hey... you're a doctor!"  -- Duh.  Now you're viewed as a dumb ass.

2.)  Everyone else constantly tells her the same thing, therefore it has no
real effect.  And now you're viewed as an UNORIGINAL dumb ass.

3.)  You're complementing her, but she hasn't earned it.  I.E.  WET-RAG,
UNORIGINAL DUMB ASS.

If you're in a bar, instead you ought to try asking her if she's from the
area, and if so, where else she goes to when she goes out?  What's fun
about it?  If she has a brain, she'll also happen to mention something
about herself which you can use to engage her in further conversation.  If
she's not from that area, then you can talk about where she's from and how
she got here.

So right off the bat, you're:
1.)  Getting to know something about her personality.

2.)  Since you're not engaging in a frontal attack, she can't bitch shield
you and you don't need to work through any of her "defend the phallic
intruder" bullshit.  The best battles are won without a single shot fired,
yada yada...

3.)  If she's still gonna act like a bitch just because you asked a
question about where the best places to go out are... then you know she's a
cunt and you can move on to the next one.

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Hypno Bill:
>Ross:
>>Of course they do, it all depends on what you are radiating. Hence my
>>theory of the Natural Leader.
>
>So, what is a "natural leader"?

My idea of the Natural Leader is someone who inspires. This person has a
good sense of his own personal power. This person the Natural Leader does
not give power to others to use against himself. He makes his own decisions
for his own reasons. Thinking his actions as opposed to reactionary
responses. Whereas a Jerk (what YOU call the alpha male») may for example
attempt to gain the advantage by making ridiculous false statements claiming
that the other person supports those ridiculous false statements. A nice guy
may respond by being angered and attempt to explain away that he did not
make those statements. A jerk may respond by getting angry and call you
crazy and ask where the hell did you get that idea? A Natural Leader will
see what it is you are trying to do. He will consider an appropriate
response or may just subtly point out that you are embarrassing yourself.
All without any emotional attachment that one normally has in these cases.

The Natural Leader has as his theme, THERE IS NO RESISTANCE, THIS IS
NATURAL.  Unlike the Nice Guy who will attempt to supplicate or buy his way
with a woman. Or the Jerk who will attempt to dominate a woman. This guy
will
radiate "Of course, she is attracted to me". This sets up the internal state
of the Natural Leader. So he radiates confidence, a universal attractant.
This radiance also makes his Conversation Plus welcomed.  Kind of if you
were to imagine a person who has a warm welcomed touch compared to the used
car
salesman "glad to see you" slap on the back. HUGH Difference.

Most of what I propose for the Natural Leader is the perception and
development of one's own self. I think we all agree that this is an
investment that pays maximum dividends. This person is an ego free person.
If you don't get it, no biggee he moves on to his next prospect, realizing
that not everyone has brains or the ability to Recognize Something Great.

Looking back many years ago on a date I had unknowingly put my hand on the
girls breast. She made no objections. Soon I realized where my hand was and
promptly removed it. Thinking it was not be welcomed. It was a few more
weeks before I got my hand on that part of her anatomy again. Before I
realized where my hand was I radiated it belongs here. And she offered no
resistance.

Dr Jama Clark in her book "What the hell do women really want" draws a
continuum between Nice Guy and the Jerk. She says the place to be is in
between them both. Marcus Melton in his book "Nice Guys Don't Get Laid"
gives us three types, the Jerk, the Nice Guy and Mr. Average. With Mr.
Average landing in the area of Jerk or Nice Guy depending on the women he is
seeing. These two seem to agree with the continuum. I however see it
differently. Both the Nice Guy and the Jerk are a result of a lack of
personal power. Therefore the Natural Leader is in an area all his own. The
Natural Leader has his own sense of personal power that comes from within.
He does not need to get hyped up, nor does he accept false praise. He
graciously accepts honest praise and thanks the source.

Consider that 2/3rds of all Americans have low self esteem. Which leaves
1/3 to be divided up between high and adequate self esteem. This fact alone
sets the Natural Leader apart from the crowd. He is different in an
attractive way. This Person Is A Rare Gem. He is able to feel comfortable
with others and others Naturally feel comfortable with him.

Unlike the Nice Guy who meets with a total lack of following and finds
himself without support when he needs it. Or the Jerk who dominates when
present, but is sabotaged by others when his back is turned. The Natural
Leader inspires others to desire to support him of their own free will.

NightLight9:
> Dwayne Responds:  She *did* make the obligatory use of the term "my
> boyfriend" during our conversation... But I didn't do a boyfriend killer
or
> anything... Just ignored it.
>
> My Comment: I think it was mixed signals -- now you mention that she has a
> BF and you don't deny that it wasn't crystal clear that this was a date so
> her getting uncomfortable is pretty much a standard reaction.
>
> My Comments on his original question continue:
> 3) Buyer's remorse, that unexplainable sinking feeling that she's made a
> mistake and there's no real reason other than it doesn't feel right.
> Because there's no reason is part of the reason that she ran away from
you,
> as she would have nothing to tell you.

It's not buyer's remorse, it's "boyfriend remorse".  She agrees to meet you
under what ever pretenses she was comfortable with at the time.  Then she
starts thinking this and that, not in regards to her, but in regards to how
she views her boyfriend, her relationship with her BF and herself in terms
of
honesty and has a strong kinesthetic response.  She decides that it just
makes her feel bad to act that way.  So she cancels.  Happens all the time.
At least she didn't try to get you to buy her dinner and then leave as
friends...

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cliff's list advertisment section
Cliff's Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.

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Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

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NOT REVIEWED YET:

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Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

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A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte's New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman's g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff's free plugs section
Cliff's Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn't send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):

 

[all words] [any words]

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