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"All I get is “too fast” and “not ready"

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All I get is “too fast” and “not ready
6/12/01 4:35:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Sisonpyh's book, in case I hadn't mentioned it before, gets my highest
recommendation.  This is down to earth, practical advice that should help
anyone in getting their act together.


Can John Wooden help you get laid?
A friend of mine who has to remain nameless is writing a book on
sports greats/legends he has met.

He recently sent me some previews and included a story about
meeting legendary UCLA basketball Coach John Wooden, who still holds
the record for winning more championships than any other coach in

How does this apply to success with women? Well, one thing that
Wooden always did was stress fundamentals. ALL of the players, from
least to most talented were required to practice and drill the
fundamentals, over and over and over again. NO exceptions.

Wooden would begin the season by showing all the players how to
properly put on their socks! First one foot, then the other!

Everyone had to do all the drills, ALL the time. Anyone who didn't
was benched.

Wooden also GENTLY but FIRMLY established that he was the boss and
that he WOULD expect the best from his players. Any hot-dog who
tried to skip a practice, or violate Wooden's rules from grooming was
benched or told they could leave the team.

To this day, he still has players call to tell him how much he has
meant to them and their lives.

Here is my point:
As guys who want to do well with women, we would do well to
remember Wooden's stressing the fundamentals and constant practice
and drill.

And secondly, with regard to treating women, I think they are
seeking men who will demand what is best in them and demand what is
best FROM them. Someone who will set rules/standards and terms and
gently but strongly demonstrate that those have to be kept.

The teachers who let you slide and get away with shit in school you
probably don't even remember. It's the one or two teachers/coaches
that INSISTED on your best that you do remember.

I think it works the same with women.

Anyway, just some out on the court and
shoot some hoops!

BTW, do you know, to this day, Wooden has players who he coached
30 years ago call him once a week to say they love him and tell him
how much he meant to them!


Hey Guys, Thanks Ross for your kind words. I totally intend to write up some
more practical examples of the kind of stuff I was theorizing about, but
until then, I hope this totally amazing story will wet your whistle.

I went to my brother's wedding this weekend and was totally blown away by
astounding amount of attractive women who hung out there. I think I must
have been high on testosterone the entire weekend... Anyway, I was gradually
working my way round the wedding party, I had already arranged a date with
my old school friend who was about an 8 and a half, but was reluctant to
spend the rest of the night with her, especially when there were a couple of
10's about. I made up some crappy excuse about needing to arrange the
champagne and went on finding more beee-utiful women. My eyes finally rested
upon one of the most attractive women I have ever seen. The body of a
supermodel and the face like a dream... I was in heaven instantly, and not
one to stand on ceremony (excuse the wedding pun) I walked over and greeted
her to my brother's wedding.

I made some instant kino and she amazingly came right back. (I thought she
would be way too up tight for me to have any instant rapport.) We started
chatting, I found out she was a Christian and that she knew my brother blah
blah.. The alarm bells started after I knew she was religious, but she had
an amazing personality and frankly by this time I was completely enthralled
by her. After a few moments of eliciting some values, I used her values to
make her feel secure with me. (They were trust,'true love' blah blah.)
what was really interesting was that she told me on more than one occasion
that she had made some mistake or other, and after every mistake she would
say.. 'But we're only human, right?' and touch my hand. (I didn't think this
was very important, till along comes Mr. BF.)

Now anybody who has dealt with GIR's knows that you DO NOT hit on a girl
when the BF is around. right? Well, not one to stick by the 'rules,' I
continued to chat with her and I had already taken her into a trance and she
was feeling extremely sexy. I glanced up at the BF who looked slightly
pissed off. Did I back off? Fuck no! I had her. And Believe me this girl was
worth every bit of energy I had! Now, by this time we were watching the
after wedding band play, and we were sitting on the floor side by side. We
were making continuous leg contact and she was almost completely ignoring
her BF. The Boyfriend was getting more and more angry by the second so he
kissed her on the cheek and held her hand. What a moron! He really didn't
have a clue, did he? (Note to BF's when I am hitting on your girl, you
make an excuse to get her out of there or she will end up screwing me
whether you're there or not.) I had such deep rapport with this girl that I
moved myself into an arms crossed, knees crossed position. At this, the BF
had to remove his hands as she followed my position.

- This is a technique I'll call the PBB (Pablo's boyfriend blocker).
the technique is based around gaining great rapport. It's important to have
deep physical rapport (loads of kino, make her describe something (If you
use your hands when you describe something, she will naturally reply with
the same communication, you therefore free her hands to move)). Now whenever
the BF touches the girl or moves in close, move her into a position that is
either uptight (arms crossed, back straight), Denying (Back to him),
sexual towards you (play some stupid game that includes loads of kino. Make
it ambiguously erogenous). When you deny the boyfriend of his requirements
for physical contact and you have all the girl's attention, you force the BF
in to doing something drastic, irrational and generally they will destroy
themselves. (If this technique is already used... then please don't call it
the PBB, call it whatever it was first called.)

The BF at this stage was fuming. The GF was completely oblivious as I taught
her how to experience heightened pleasure during work (a basic anchoring
pattern). I was setting it up for the BF to take a dive. Having set up the
anchor and completely sexualizing even the most simple words I said, the
girl suddenly broke off in the middle of a sentence stared me in the eyes
for about 10 seconds and looked as though she was going to kiss me. The BF
saw this and grabbed the girl's arm. He tried desperately to convince her
that she needed to come with him to get drink, but he failed and instead she
ended up commanding him to go and get her a drink. This was my moment and I
was quick to capitalize. I moved around so I was facing her and smoothed my
hand over her cheek reaching for her ear to talk to her. (It was pretty loud
from the band. This is a good example of ambiguous touch, because the cheek
and ear are both very sexually charged areas.) I fed her back what she had
said to me in different conversations. 'I don't know if you're who I'm meant
to meet. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to say. But I trust this
amazing connection with you, and can you sense (touching her cheek) that WE
WERE MEANT TO BE TOGETHER?  I would love for you to say that YOU FEEL
SOMETHING INSIDE OF YOU (firing the pleasure anchor). That hot pulsating
sensation of passion and .. and I think if you just opened up right now...
well, if you would just let me hold you warm from the cold starry night.
feeling your body close to mine (using the perfect scene she had described
to me)' (That's an assimilation of everything she had said to me in the
discussions.) She was deep inside herself here and I was holding one of her
hands and my other hand was holding her cheek she was holding my cheek too,
then for some reason she pulled her hand from my cheek. She looked at me and
said 'There is nothing I would rather do than spend the rest of the night
with you, but I can't allow myself.. I'm a Christian.' This was the final
hurdle. Ten Seduction points to anyone who can guess what I said.....

I said 'There is nothing I would rather do than spend the rest of the night
with you. And even though I know some think it's wrong, I get this feeling
like IT WOULD BE UNBELIEVABLY RIGHT' then I had the final barrier down with
her own explanatory pattern: 'After all, we're only human, right?' and I
her hand and finished her with the pleasure anchor. With this she kissed me
and I got her to leave with me to my hotel. From a Christian with a
boyfriend I now have a 10 in my bed. : )

I'm not saying this sort of thing happens often, I mean the rapport I had
with Chloe was very rare, but it proves a couple of things:

* - Boyfriends can actually be destroyed when they are present
* - Someone's explanatory pattern can be used for our own ends
* - Congruence/Incongruence is important
* - Ignore what she thinks she wants
* - let a boyfriend destroy himself
* - For God's sake, rules are there to be broken!

Nothing I write is meant to be taken as law! Comment on it and
rant about what you think is crap! We can all get a lot better at seduction
quicker if we all discuss it.


Sorry for this huge post, I think details in this type of circumstance are
better than vague descriptions.  And, I don't know, I get the feeling maybe
this post will hit a chord with a lot of readers either running into the
circumstances or guys who've found ways to push themselves beyond it.

I have to figure out more accurately what I'm doing wrong in the following
kind of circumstances and I need to know how I could have dealt with this
situation better or how to do "damage control" on this kind of stuff.  This
is not one-itis but I've deemed it an "ongoing project" while I continue to
do regular PU (which I am gradually getting much better at).

Background for this situation: a couple weeks ago I visited CityX (a bit of
drive from where I live) and PU'd a chick in a bookstore.  The skill of that
PU was extraordinary in the way I handled it, compared to past PU's.  I got
instant connections going, a lot of energy in her vibe, emotional
anticipation, etc.  The only negative was there was resistance to a change
venue so I # closed, cheek-kissed her, and went on my way.  Called her from
work a couple of days later (after I got back home), She was excited to hear
from me, and I told her I might be back in CityX again in a week or 2 and we
should meet up.  She agreed and thought it was a great idea.  Told her I'd
call her back that week but I didn't and ended up calling her back the next
Wednesday and saying that I would be in CityX that weekend so let's set up a
time/place to meet.  At first, there was some scheduling BS resistance and I
got passed it with good leading and future-pacing  (I am getting much better
at catching and resolving blurs and flakes) and she committed to a time
(Sunday breakfast).  She called me back Friday at work to confirm it (she
didn't have to, she just did it).

Now, I know what I may write below is going to sound pretty AFC-ish but
during the whole post-PU meeting I was under the impression I was doing a
of things right (pacing, verbal leading, eliciting, mirroring, patterning,
emotional rapport, etc.) and was getting reciprocation that what I was doing
was working.  The only clear thing I did wrong is not going heavier on the
kino and spending too much time with her.  It was difficult to do kino
because of the seating situations (not my turf, unsure of seating
ahead of time) so I had to stick with mainly hand and arm touches while
building states.  It was also tough to cut the meeting short because the
states were building and more than halfway into it I had a strong impression
that things were being lead in the right direction and she was getting so
much enjoyment from sharing the time with me that I just didn't find a
perfect opportunity to stop her.  Anyway, I still think I had done just
everything right and I'm a bit perplexed as to the result.

Pros: 9.5 face (very cute), 9 body, 31 years old (I'm 29), petite, mature,
French/Italian, very sweet, available. I hate to sound sappy, but she's the
type of chick that is really is worth an effort, unlike a lot of chicks
who've got nothing going for them.
Cons: Emotionally still "rebounding" from ended 13-yr relationship,
of being currently stalked by 2nd (most recent) ex.

I apparently ran into her just a short time after she got herself together
and fixed (or at least started fixing) her self-esteem.  Her friend
questioned her about meeting a guy she "doesn't know" (out-of-towner, met
briefly at a bookstore), tried to talk her out of it, but she decided to
me regardless because she felt it was "right" and there was a "purpose" to
it, a "meaning", some kind of thing that was "meant to happen".  She told me
all that, pretty much at the very beginning.  It made a lot of my subsequent
patterning and conversation easier.

I was up in CityX again (weekend trip) and I met up with her at the
I first PU'd her (she was there early), embraced her, cheek kisses, and she
asked if I'd like to go to breakfast (the original plan for that Sunday
morning) and I said "Let's sit down at the cafe upstairs first."  OK, that
was fine.
We sat down, she said the above stuff, I patterned her a bit to make certain
she was comfortable with me and re-energized her with the reasoning of why
she came to meet me, rebuilding the state she was in with me 2 weeks ago.
One of the things I elicited was that she hates "controlling" men, the kind
who say "do this, do that, wear this, go here, go there".  I figured
breakfast was safe now as the venue change - I felt it would be too pushy
against the elicited values to skip the breakfast and go into something else
(like fucking at her place).  At first I wasn't getting solid EC (eye
contact), but before
we started out for breakfast I finally had the EC going well.

Got to the breakfast place, poshy, sat in the patio at a small table on the
edge.  I'm continuing with the convo, eliciting, pacing, future-pacing,
watching my tonality, verbal and physical mirroring, light and consistent
kino, creating more comfort for her, building emotional rapport, listening
with extra care as she talked, etc.  I was at such a tremendous
conversational level that breakfast ended up taking way too long (over 2
hours) - well, actually the waiter took fucking FOREVER to get the check to
the table but I carried the convo pretty damn well.  She paid.  I casually
countered with "let me handle my side"; she pleasantly insisted on paying
whole bill, saying that I could pay the "next time".  Before we left, she
went to the bathroom and I ended up chatting up the 2 chicks that had sat
next to us before she went to the bathroom.  I was still chatting with them
when she came back and I introduced them as "new friends".  So then I
we do as we said before and take advantage of the beautiful day and take a
walk.  The secondary intention of the walk was to head to her place (with
agreement) because I wanted to see her oil paintings (she was excited to
learn I was an artist).

We walk a bit around downtown and then turn back towards her place and then,
unexpectedly she asks if I want to go down some crowded touristy street and
back some other way (which would clearly be walking AWAY from her
 So I said, "Let's go down this way first."  We get to the end of the
touristy street and she asks again which direction I want to go.  Of course,
I indicate towards where her apartment apparently was (I actually didn't
where it was, I didn't know the address).  She seems fine with this and then
a few blocks down she starts talking about buying groceries, going to the
gym, usual resistance and I said "But I don't know exactly when I'll be in
the city again, and I'd really love to see your work."  She knew my intent
(OK, so the ploy was transparent but at least it was honest in the sense
I did want to see her paintings but I also wanted to be in her apartment to
close the deal).  She then went into the anti-slut defense phrases of "It's
too fast", "I'm not ready" and I tried to counter with "You don't have to do
anything you don't want to do." and similar calming and soothing "It's OK,
everything is all right, take opportunities when they are in front of you"
kind of patterns.  And all of it was based on previous patterns and states I
had built up with her during the breakfast so I couldn't understand the
resistance but eventually decided I should not be pushy and decided to
subtly debrief her.

She seemed like she was on the verge of LJBFing me but hesitated because she
didn't want something else to happen (explained in a bit).  At her
suggestion, we stopped back at the bookstore cafe for a coffee (again, she
paid) and I tried for a turnaround but no-go, so just debriefed some more.
did not end this as an "agreement" for LJBF but rather told her that I
desired to know whether she felt she wanted me to actually designate her as
just a "friend" or if what she was saying was that she wanted me to approach
the whole thing as "I'll give her some time and we can try this again soon."
She couldn't answer directly because she was subtly concerned that I wanted
something NOW (actually, yeah I did) and if she couldn't give that NOW then
would disappear completely (which isn't true if I could just understand what
she really wanted).  She was also concerned that if she LJBF'd me that I
would disappear (like other guys she's LJBF'd).  The annoying part is that
earlier she told me a story of some guy friend who comes into town every now
and then and they do the "dinner and movie" thing, but that's it (no sex)
it's "OK with her and OK with him."  I didn't comment on that story to her,
beyond a simple acknowledgement of her telling the story.  I should have
challenged that story (perhaps a shit test) but chose not to hinge on it.

She told me about other situations with men who she thought at one time or
another something "might happen" but they ended up disappearing before
anything ever did happen.  Another story she told was of a long-time friend
who fell in love with her and she couldn't reciprocate and 2 years later he
was happily married.  I kind of knew she was laying all these stories out as
some kind of roadmap to her model of how she sees relationships with men,
I wasn't getting a clear picture of what she was looking for, only what has
happened to her that she doesn't like.  One part of our convo lead into
marriage (in general, and NO I didn't bring it up first) and she asked me my
thoughts on marriage, in terms of my own life.  Loaded question.  I answered
with "When the right person comes along - marriage takes commitment and I
wouldn't want to make that commitment lightly.  You see yourself all day
the people who come into your office with marriage problems so bad that
divorce is the only solution.  So it's not something I take lightly."  Her
answer was about the same.  I think through this whole thing she put me in
the "marriage material" category which set off the anti-slut defense
mechanisms in a serious way once we were heading to her place.

This whole thing lasted 6 hours (yeah, yeah, I know...).  From 9:30 AM to
about 3:30 PM.  I know I should have cut it off early but I had her in such
strong emotional rapport and connection towards the end of breakfast, along
with her agreement to stop at her place, that I thought ending up at her
place was clearly the intention and that it WAS going to happen.  Then, a
total change of state while actually heading there.  I didn't change
I was doing from before, just continuing, which made the abrupt change so

More background about ex's:
Her 13-year ex
She ended the relationship because he was too seriously devoted to his goals
in life, to the degree that everything else suffered.  She couldn't take it
anymore and considered it like a cancer that was best to remove herself
 She did a BF destroyer herself.  No need for me to nip any "it might work
out again" thoughts in the bud.

Her recent (2nd) ex
She ended the relationship.  On the outside, a perfect guy: handsome, rich,
and confident.  On the inside: a total depressive loser who had no chance of
helping himself.  She did a BF destroyer herself.  No need for me to nip any
"it might work out again" thoughts in the bud, she knew definitively that
nothing would ever come of it.  She told me later that he's been stalking

She kept finding fault in all the men she talked about (sometimes extreme
fault, sometimes a strong disappointment in their lack of relational
reciprocation) and the only positive men she mentioned were her dad, the
great guys married to a couple of her friends, or some vibrant PHD running
self-help seminars.  She generally seemed to find a lot of ways to get
disappointed in people.  She hates bars/clubs and she said that when her
friend started feeling down about how to "find a man", she told her to look
for him in everyday places - that he's out there and he will be there for
if she just looks.

As far as I could tell from convo, she's only actually been with 2 men,
3 (although the third was veiled in some kind of LJBF story... then he
"disappeared" kind of thing).  Kind of spiritual chick, prays to God kind of
thing, which explained the limited LTR's.  She said I was a lot like her
13-year guy, yet different in that I could live without the kind of stresses
he seemed to have.

In the debrief, she felt I was a totally sincere person, sensitive to
real needs and people in general, honest, and had every kind of thing she's
looking for.  Yet she was scared to do anything more (implying that she
like to see me again but doing "more" now was "too fast").  My intuition was
that she didn't want to "risk" something but my ego was simultaneously
smashed because here I was everything she could imagine ever wanting yet not
knowing what decision would totally risk losing it.  It's like she didn't
know which decision would cause the loss, and I'm not sure what exactly she
was thinking she'd "lose" (a relationship, a future lover, a marriage
friendship, a sucker to pimp for attention).  This kind of shit annoys me
more than some random bimbo rejecting me because of the level of deep
connection created and the fact that she's actually a great chick - I didn't
need to "fake" anything around her.  Although I didn't tell her a huge lot
about myself, I didn't lie about anything and she really was getting
emotionally connected to me.  I was pretty damn honest, using patterning &
other stuff to simply make what I was trying to do easier rather than

This is the kind of crap that would happen to me over & over a long time ago
when I was AFC and didn't have a clue what I was doing in terms of
And now that I know how to PU great chicks, the kind I want, it seems that I
still end up with these kind of crap results even when I've got an arsenal
know-how available to me.  It hits my ego badly because I think that maybe
matter what I do I'll end up with the same results as before and I'm not
where exactly I'm fucking things up.  In this situation, I don't know what
primary thing I did wrong and if this is something that just "started" or
just "ended" and what exactly the chick would have expected from me in order
for me to get a sexual response rather than just ending up with seeing me as
an emotional mannequin available for being attention-pimped without some
of reciprocation of what I want.  I didn't know how to say that I can
what she seems to want better than any man around her yet I can't do that
without also getting what I want - I couldn't seem to get a across that if
had sex I wouldn't all of a sudden turn into some other guy who disappears
after he gets what he wants.  I don't cut people off like that unless
hurt me in some way or changed into something I no longer desired to be

None of this makes sense.  She was there early.  She went against her
friend's cockblock attempts.  She had a strong desire to see me again
our first encounter was "meant to be" in some way.  We had a ton of
rapport. She liked me.  She paid.  There weren't any apparent shit-tests
thrown at me.  She felt really great around me.  She kept finding ways to
emphasize that I was different (in a positive way) than pretty much everyone
around her. Towards the end (even after the "too fast" resistance) she told
me I have everything in a man she would want to be with.  She ate up my
patterns about grabbing something special when it's in front of you because
tomorrow is uncertain and not to let yourself miss out on opportunities due
to hesitation (for whatever reason) yet didn't actually jump at this when a
challenge was put in front of her.  But in the end, I felt like I took the
place of another, anonymous, man and doing all the work for him.  Meanwhile,
THAT guy gets to lay her and all I get is "too fast" and "not ready" and it
is frustrating as hell to feel that way knowing that although I have all
these PUA skills, I still get AFC results.


Mr. X (This note came with an unsubscribe instruction, for a reason I
thought I would bring up for any reaction it may get):
I do not have a girlfriend nor is that my goal.  What I really would like to
have is a lifestyle like Sisonpyh's. Unfortunately, my problem is that I
study the stuff on the seduction email list but in reality never approach
women (i.e. TAKE ACTION).  Also, I find that I am becoming envious and
of PUA types like Mystery, whose success I constantly have to read about in
the seduction emails.  I suspect others on the list feel the same way???

I think for now, I am better off to just some how try to approach and just
talk to women and get over the fear of looking like a loser if things do not
go well.  Once I nip that in the bud, I can resubscribe to the list and
hopefully contribute something useful.

My Comment:  I think that the above two items point to issues that probably
a lot of guys reading this have and the hole point of these emails is find
the best ways to change that.  I guess I am a little surprised to see that
some of these reports are causing some serious frustration to the point
where some of you want off the subscriber list to not have to read about
other people's successes.  Comments on this would be appreciated.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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