The Top Pickup Artist Forum On The Internet: Fast Seduction 101

Clifford’s Seduction Newsletter Archive

"Can I borrow your friend?"

<< newsletter archive home

[all words] [any words]
[information about this newsletter archive]

fast seduction 101 promotion section
If you haven’t already visited the   ASF forum or Player Guide web board, now would be a good time to do so…
Don’t forget to this site!
Fast Seduction 101 now has a product review section.

Can I borrow your friend?
6/12/01 4:37:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time


I am still waiting to hear from those of you interested in learning more
from Steve Piccus.  In my opinion, Steve could be of great help to guys on
this list who have blocks that are preventing them from accomplishing what
they want in life (in particular, with regard to being more successful with
women, but also for any other area of your life that could be improved
upon).  I would like to find several of you interested to engage Steve up
here in Montreal so I can get him back here asap.  Those of you who attended
Major Mark's seminar here in May can attest to the great work both Mark and
Steve do, and we need to have both of them back up here often.  If you want
to really change your life for the better, Mark and Steve are as good as
there is out there to help you accomplish this.  Visit Mark's website at


Oscar Bruce, a long time reader on not often enough contributor to these
emails, has a new site.  Visit it at


Arte, founder of the New Sex Institute, is a new subscriber to these emails.
I visited his website at and it's pretty interesting.
If anyone has any experience with his products, seminars, etc., your
comments would be appreciated.


Mark Bednarski:
Here is another tip of the day.

Importance of laying it on the line.

I discovered this one by accident and I have been using it to great
effect with women to overcome any uncertainty or stalling that they
make employ as you are pursuing them.

I met a woman (Cindy Crawford look alike, a perfect 10) while driving
home one night from the gym. Her fender came loose in a snow storm and
was dragging behind her. I stopped her and tied it to her truck and asked
her out. She would not give me her number but asked for my business card.
Later in the week I got a thank you card with her business card inside
asking me to call her.

I called and left a message - nothing. I sent an e-mail three days later -
nothing. Finally I sent her an e-mail saying that she either returns my call
and we make plans or there is no sense in me pursuing her any further. She
called within 30 minutes and said she liked my attitude. We made plans for
that Sat night.

After she stalled again and I once again said we either see each other or
go our separate ways. Basically my way or the highway. She loved it and kept
on seeing me.

This got me thinking that so many times in the past women stall and waste
our time by giving us the run-around. Basically I believe that we allow them
do this to us as men by not being definite for the fear of rejection if we
come outright and ask for a definite decision. As a result I began being
definite and laying things on the line with them that either we come to a
yes or no. If yes let's proceed and if no then let's go our separate ways.
Most of the time I have been able to convert uncertainty to a yes as I found
women tend to respect a man who is not afraid to take the bull by the horns,
so to speak.

I say "Let's go out for dinner on Friday" She says "I am not sure, I am busy
with my dog." Our typical response is "Well, let me call you next week and
then maybe then we can make plans." If you sense she is giving you the
run-around now say "You either want to see me or not. If yes then let's make
definite plans for next week/2 weeks, etc. (set the date, time and place
a month in advance if you have to). If not then let's go our separate ways
right now and I will not bother you again." She either accepts and you win
says no and you save time since you would have never won anyways. You save
time, effort, energy and hope.

Basically in my mind this puts the fear of God in them that you are willing
to walk away without question. You place a higher value on yourself this way
by indicating that you will not put up with ambiguity from her. It also
makes you look more attractive since you do not come off as uncertain. I
noticed that women tend to like a man who will not put up with their
nonsense. It is a take charge attitude where they see you as a man, not a
fumbling flake.

You are not allowing her to squirm away by giving her an easy way out
without her having to actually say no to you in your face which is pretty
uncomfortable for people to do in general. They would rather give an
ambiguous answer and hopefully ignore you until you go away. But we as the
hopeful creatures we are, many times do not get the message and continue
pursuing in vain. This only frustrates them and us and diminishes our value.

With this technique you know where you stand right away. There is no second
question whatsoever since it is so blunt and to the point. For example, use
it in the initial pick up when she hesitates to give you her number "You
either want me to call you or you do not. If yes, then let me have your
number. If not, then I'll walk away right now." Use it at any other time
you feel that she is giving you the bogus run-around.

In summary, be to the point, blunt, and definite what you want and always
indicate that if she has no reciprocating interest you are willing to walk
away and that you will not accept indecision. In essence, yes or no?

Another "TIP OF THE DAY"

** A Stunningly Beautiful Woman **

I found this technique to be a great one for picking up women.

Walk up to a woman that you find attractive.  The setting is
irrelevant.  And say to her with a smile:

"Excuse me, but I could not help to notice you while walking
here.  I wanted to let you know that you are a stunningly
beautiful woman."

Then wait for a response which, in 95% of all cases, is a mix of
stunned disbelief mixed in with blushing and immediate like toward

I find that most of the time this is all you have to say, and the
woman will do most of the talking and the pressure is off you.  The
woman will freely continue the conversation with you.

Using this technique I have been able to score more numbers and dates
than any other way.  Follow up the initial comments about how great
she looks and how much you are attracted to her.  Then tell her you
would love to see her for a drink or a meal.  Get her number.

I find this works for the following reasons:
* It's courageous, and women like men who take risks.
* It's honest and to the point. They know where they stand with you.
* If they are attracted to you, telling them you find them beautiful
will free them from their fear of rejection of being attracted to you.
* It makes them feel good about themselves.
* It lets them know you like them. People like those who like them.

Try it on the next 20 women that you see and you will be amazed with
the results.

More from Mark Bednarski (from private email, commenting on my question
about how are the women in Toronto):
Women here are more about commitment and being serious. I find you need to
prove to them that you want them, not just for one night fucking. If they
sense you are a player they are gone.

So as long as I show them I am serious about them they respond.

What seems to work is complimenting them by telling them how beautiful they
are and how attracted you are to them and that you enjoy their company. This
way they think you are serious about them without actually telling them you
want them long term. If they come back and say they though you wanted long
term can say you never said that and keep your sense of integrity.

By being adventurous I find that you just need to be that way and they will
see it. You do not have to tell them. Action speaks better than words.

I read an article about a 28 year old who says he loses women after 6 - 7
This works 90% of the time for me to get sex, 2nd dates and relationships
when I do this as soon as possible.
I have told them they look great and I find them beautiful.
I told them I was attracted to them and I found them attractive.
I talked about sex with them and tell them how much I enjoy it.
I touch them a lot but casually, on the shoulder, arm, back, etc.
I kiss them on the lips during the date.
I tell them I enjoy their company and would love to see them again.
I called them a day or so after first meeting them and a day or so after a
1st date.
I ask them lots of questions but say little about myself and listen to them.
I did this in such a way to suggest that I am open to them but not desperate
or not that they have to engage in anything right now.

Whenever I failed to get sex, a 2nd date or a relationship, it's because I
did not do at least one of the things above. I lost many great women that
way. They said
"Mark, your desire to be with me was not urgent enough" after I did not call
right away.
"I want to be friends" when I did not talk about sex or kiss them.
"I am not ready for a relationship" - when I did not talk about one.
"I don't think you are interested in me" - after I do not tell them I think
they are great.

I feel some other systems work only on women that have the capability to
chase and stand the risk of rejection. Most women do not have that ability
and when a man tries to have a woman chase him she will think he is not
interested in her and she will move on.

Countless personal experiences and many discussions with women have
confirmed this for me. Unless you are Gene Simmons, most women think the
average guy is not worth the chase.

Women leave because of not enough attention, not because of too much.
But it has to be the right attention where the man does not allow her to
rule him and he stands up for himself but shows great affection and liking.


>>Reasons why a girl with a boyfriend are easier to
seduce? (These apply
>>mainly to girls who are not SLUTS! This means a girl
who is happy in their
>>relationship, if a girl is a slut, dumb, drug addict,
mentally ill or 'the
>>one' then there's no real great effort needed to
seduce them.)
>>* - Many boyfriend/girlfriend relationships satisfy
the stability factor
>>included in a girl's MOTW (Model Of The World), but
not the need to be found
>>uncontrollably sexy.
>Spot on. This is the guy FILLING THE ROLE...of
>supporter, comforter, messenger boy, etc. NOT the one fulfilling needs,
>fantasies, ETC. SPOT ON!

This goes exactly with an expression that my friend
used to always use:
'I hope they have boyfriend - that way I don't have to
take them out or buy them dinner'.
He knew that the boyfriend already filled that role.
He was just filling another role/need that was not
necessarily lacking, but a need that constantly needs
to be fulfilled with women - the feeling of being
desirable and desired.
>>After all, a girl KNOWS (or at least assumes, until
you make her question
>>it) that someone they are in a relationship with
loves them. But there is a
>>constant need to re-assert the fact that they are
sexy to the rest of the
>And indeed, to explore sexually beyond where the
>Borefiend may be taking her! SPOT ON!

I agree wholeheartedly.
>>* - Girls in a relationship are not on the look out.
Girls who are not in a
>>relationship are on a constant look out for a guy
that assumes the role of
>>'perfect partner' or the nearest match. They will
test and probe
>>'potentials' to find out if they truly match her
model of a perfect guy.
>>When girls are in a relationship, they are much less
likely to give you a
>>probing (except after you've seduced them, hehe) and
are therefore easier to
>>gain rapport with than you might think!
>Again, keen insight. This guy rocks! Who are you? Are
>you an SS student?

My question is this:  If girls/women THAT ARE NOT in
relationships are looking for the perfect partner
(meaning looking for alot of things), what is the best
way to fulfill her expectations - considering that
they are going to be testing out potential males?
Now, obviously someone can't fulfill everything, yet
sure enough she will go home with somebody.  So, he
obviously fulfilled what was important AT THAT POINT
IN TIME (ATPIT).  Is the MOTW considered ATPIT?  What
is the best way to discover what their need ATPIT is?


>>Have you worked this on women who are non artsy women who are not
>>creative or mental health students but ones that are business/engineer
>>majors, or less educated and not new age, more blue collar perhaps?
>Yes, I was with some other brothers at a B&N the other weekend and sarged a
>math professor. Within minutes, she was in one of the most profound trances
> have ever seen.

I don't think a math professor is in the same
category. One of the big problems I have with
any of the patterns I find here is that too much
of the language is oriented towards west coast
New Age types.

My Comment:  I think that many men don't relate to the patterns when they
first find out about them because men think somewhat differently than women
and this is a new experience for them.  Many can't believe that guys would
actually say such things, but this is a major key to success.  I suggest you
don't knock it until you try it, and the "patterns are only examples" so, if
you feel more comfortable doing so, you can revise them as you get familiar
with them.


Hypno Bill:
>The way I see it, Bill has morphed Major Mark's idea of Being That Man into
>something called a Natural Leader. My guess is that it's a useful construct
>that works for HIM. Correct me if I'm wrong here, Bill, but I imagine that
>when you think of Being That Man, you see yourself as the Natural Leader of

I am sure that there are similarities between Major Mark's "Being The Man"
and my  idea of the Natural Leader. Mark has a lot of good things to say and
is well worth modeling.

Another point here is that in becoming the Natural Leader, it is more of a
surrendering. Instead of trying to become anything, simply surrender to it.
Kind of like "The mouse that roared". Where this tiny country decided to
declare war on the United States. They figured that they could not win the
war, but they could win the peace. In this way I am looking to make the
change easier to happen. It simply is as Nature has intended for you. Mark
has said "stop trying to be a Speed Seducer and simply be a Speed
Seducer." I am not sure but perhaps he has the same thing in mind?
>Since Bill made up the idea, it can be anything he wants, that's why he
>keeps changing his definition.

Actually, I have not changed the definition at all. I came right out and
made my position clear when I had written the following:

"I believe that the anthropological point of view is another model to use.
may not cover all aspects of human behavior, nothing can; we just are too
complex. However, adding it to one's collection of seduction models gives us
additional means to look at the unique individual in front of us. More
models of behavior gives us more ability to choose our actions intelligently
and give us more insight. In a sense it comes down to something as simple as

I think that is where your confusion may have come from as you had mentioned
his quote. Keep in mind the definition of the Natural Leader and the dialog
are two different things.


Len (Commenting on Pablo):
>* - A GIR has an established pattern for her life and emotions. If you can
>find out her patterns you can wield them to your own evil ends. (This
>obviously applies also to SG (single girls), but a GIR often has strong
>patterns that include a significant other. If you satisfy that pattern,
>a good start.  If you satisfy it better than her original partner then you
>are already destroying her BF.)

Any chance Pablo could give a classification of the different types
of "strong patterns" he sees?  This would be very helpful.  I once asked
Hyperbond a question of this kind, but didn't really get an answer.  That
was in response to his talking about a woman who had not gotten enough love
from her father, so you step in to fill that need, possibly building a
propulsion mechanism around it.  That's a basic general pattern and I'm
still curious about some of the others that the PU masters may notice.


Throatwobbler Yach-t:
Where does one go to find wings if one is new in town?
Should one go to bars alone and try to pick up guy friends?  I am out of
college, so that isn't an option.  Do you guys have any suggestions?

Also, do you guys number close in front of guys/gals in a group where your
target is?  The only other option is saying to the group, "Can I borrow your
friend for
a second?", isolating her and then number close her on the spot.  I just
feel a little nerve-racked closing in front of other guys and chicks,
not to say I haven't done it many times.

My Comment: A good place to start might be to go to» and
use the PAIR system on there.  But this is a good question for those looking
otherwise and I would like to hear other ideas.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

>> back to top

 Learn The Skills StoreStore
Become a High Status Male