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"Being a PUA is extraordinary"

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Being a PUA is extraordinary
6/13/01 5:35:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time


I have just finished reading Sisonpyh's book (
and it is one of most comprehensive PUA works I have read (I have
followed this list, ASF, and the SS list for just under an year now and
have read most of the literature available online -- the Player's Guide,
Maniac's site, etc.).
I executed my first same-night close (picked up and seduced a girl in
under 6 hours) shortly after reading his first post to this list, and I
believe that my success was entirely due to adopting the "cocky and
funny" attitude he describes. The book expands substantially on his posts
to this list and it is very thorough.


GameMaster (from private email):
Debi took her Blammo like a man and laughed when I was done throwing the
kitchen sink at her...she said "I've read about you guys and you didn't have
to do all that, but I AM amused!" Another case of 'was the connection here
first, or did I create it?' Who really cares right?

My Comment:  This brings up a very interesting topic.  Several women I have
known have told me that they make up their mind in 30 seconds whether they
would sleep with a guy or not.  In order for that to actually happen, the
guy just basically has to avoid doing anything stupid to turn her off.  So
the question is, how much of our seduction efforts actually are the reason
we had success and how much is it just because we avoided the usual mistakes
guys make after she's already decided she's interested?  For example, out of
20 women you meet that you want to pursue something further, how many would
you say you would succeed with because of how  many did you get because she
wanted you, and how many because she had either decided against you or was
ambivalent but you were able to seduce her by creating interest in various
forms?  Comments?


I'm a successful PUA when it comes to women who are my height or a bit
shorter ...I'm 5'6" ...but I tend to stay away from taller women even if I'm
attracted to them simply because I feel it would be too personal if I got
turned down due to my height's actually kinda silly that height has to
matter to women and to me ...but here's my question ...and I would like an
honest answer it reasonable to approach a taller woman (5'8" and up)
...or should I be reasonable and just approach women that are within my
height range? ...I do have the skill to approach women in general (SS and
other) ...but is it reasonable?

My Comment:  I think it will depend on the women.  Years ago I went to the
Mr. Olympia bodybuilding contest in Orlando (as a spectator!  Please!) and
you'd be surprised how many of these guys are short.  And a lot had much
taller women as their significant others.  My friend Max (who those of you
who've been reading this for a long time may remember) loves taller women --
one of his most serious girlfriends was 6'3 1/4" and he's 5'6 1/2" (that was
a sight to see).  I don't think you should limit yourself in any area of
life -- you should go after what you want and not care what anyone else
thinks, especially the woman.


I wanted to introduce myself to the
members of your list and give a few words about and what
trying to accomplish that will compliment the excellent work already being

I am the co-author, along with Tom Leonardi, of "Secrets of Sensual
Lovemaking", and my work all builds off that foundation of spreading
and information about how to experience the ultimate in sex.  Subsequent to
writing that book, I have produced and performed in two instructional videos
for adults, "New Sex Now: The Ultimate Pleasure" and "Goddess Worship."

The mission of NewSex(TM) is to provide a set of basic and advanced
which allows anyone to achieve what we call Sacred Orgasms, which are more
consistent, last longer, are more easily achievable, and more powerful than
anything experienced during "normal sex".

The impact is that people who practice the New Sex Techniques(TM) experience
deeper level of fulfillment in their most intimate relationships and this
sacred area of being human.

New Sex Techniques(TM) give ordinary men and women the capability to create
extraordinary levels of passion and desire in their lover and within
themselves, thereby elevating sexual experience beyond the sights, sounds
feelings of normal lovemaking.

The primary benefit of New Sex(TM) is that, when practiced, the Techniques
breed a
profound level of intimacy in the man-woman relationship which can be a
foundation for everything else in life.

By using New Sex Techniques(TM), men and women experience greater freedom to
express themselves, not only sexually, but in every way possible, in private
relationships and in their relationship with the world.

New Sex(TM) creates a context where life's ultimate pleasure is available to

We invite all adults to experience the powerful New Sex Techniques(TM), and
in so
doing reclaim our God-given right as a people to enjoy the freedom of sexual
expression and fulfillment.

We enjoy sharing the power of New Sex(TM) with people who have courage to
beyond society's concept of what sex should be and step up to life as a more
complete, fulfilled human being.

If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to respond.


>c.  The only negative was there was resistance to a change
>of venue so I # closed, cheek-kissed her, and went on my way.

Details: what do you mean "resistance". How did you propose it where
she imagined it, had a good feeling imagining it, and felt compelled
>   Called her from
>work a couple of days later (after I got back home), She was excited to
>from me, and I told her I might be back in CityX again in a week or 2 and
>should meet up.  She agreed and thought it was a great idea.  Told her I'd
>call her back that week but I didn't and ended up calling her back the next
>Wednesday and saying that I would be in CityX that weekend so let's set up
>time/place to meet.  At first, there was some scheduling BS resistance and
>got passed it with good leading and future-pacing  (I am getting much
>at catching and resolving blurs and flakes) and she committed to a time
>(Sunday breakfast).  She called me back Friday at work to confirm it (she
>didn't have to, she just did it).

Good. Sounds good. Note that leading and future pacing is something
you should ALWAYS do, BEFORE you get "resistance" instead of waiting
for resistance and THEN doing it. CONNECT THE DOTS FOR PEOPLE, FIRST,
and you won't get much "resistance".
>  The only clear thing I did wrong is not going heavier on the
>kino and spending too much time with her.  It was difficult to do kino
>because of the seating situations (not my turf, unsure of seating
>ahead of time) so I had to stick with mainly hand and arm touches while
>building states.  It was also tough to cut the meeting short because the
>states were building and more than halfway into it I had a strong
>that things were being lead in the right direction and she was getting so
>much enjoyment from sharing the time with me that I just didn't find a
>perfect opportunity to stop her.  Anyway, I still think I had done just
>about everything right and I'm a bit perplexed as to the result.

I don't know about this; I think you didn't have a strong intent.
Your intent going in was to have a nice meeting and a good time, so
you got that, right? Did you have it in your mind to have a STRONG
intent to move her out of where you met to some place more private?

It seems to me you took a "let's see what happens" perspective, so
that is what you got!  Did you have any idea of what to say/do to get
her out of there to somewhere more private? Did you rehearse saying
it over and over til it was second nature?  It seems to me like you
expected her to close the deal on her own initiative, and while that
CAN happen, it seldom does. YOU MUST LEAD every step of the way, MOST
of the time, with MOST women.
>Pros: 9.5 face (very cute), 9 body, 31 years old (I'm 29), petite, mature,
>French/Italian, very sweet, available. I hate to sound sappy, but she's the
>type of chick that is really is worth an effort, unlike a lot of chicks
>who've got nothing going for them.
>Cons: Emotionally still "rebounding" from ended 13-yr relationship,
>suspicion of being currently stalked by 2nd (most recent) ex.

Whoa! Stop! How much did you let her talk about all this? If you
let her ramble about it and she brings up the bad feelings, guess who
she begins to associate them with? YOU MUST DIRECT THE CONVERSATION
and steer it away from negatives!
>I apparently ran into her just a short time after she got herself together
>and fixed (or at least started fixing) her self-esteem.  Her friend
>questioned her about meeting a guy she "doesn't know" (out-of-towner, met
>briefly at a bookstore), tried to talk her out of it, but she decided to
>me regardless because she felt it was "right" and there was a "purpose" to
>it, a "meaning", some kind of thing that was "meant to happen".  She told
>all that, pretty much at the very beginning.  It made a lot of my
>patterning and conversation easier.

I do hope you fed her own words back to her and built up that part
of her that is willing to decide for herself....she doesn't need the
external validation of friends.  Instead, Debbie,  "you just trust
you want more".  You don't even need the external validation of who
you were, a moment before this adventure began, Debbie. But instead,
you just trust what your own need is telling you feel that
connecting in..and imagine the excitement of exploring this. Can you
feel something with a real purpose to it?
>I was up in CityX again (weekend trip) and I met up with her at the
>I first PU'd her (she was there early), embraced her, cheek kisses, and she
>asked if I'd like to go to breakfast (the original plan for that Sunday
>morning) and I said "Let's sit down at the cafe upstairs first."  OK, that
>was fine.
>We sat down, she said the above stuff, I patterned her a bit to make
>she was comfortable with me and re-energized her with the reasoning of why
>she came to meet me, rebuilding the state she was in with me 2 weeks ago.

You went to all that work rebuilding? ANCHOR and you won't have to rebuild!
>One of the things I elicited was that she hates "controlling" men, the kind
>who say "do this, do that, wear this, go here, go there".

Dude, don't EVER take what a woman says at face value.  She just
totally took charge here by giving you a hypnotic command to shut
down all the aggression you needed to seduce her! She gave you an
image to live up to and an image to avoid, and boom! YOU BIT THE
DUST! That is where you went straight into trance and let her
intimidate you out of scoring!  And they say hypnosis isn't real!

The fact is, when a woman says she "hates" controlling men, she's
telling me that THIS is whom she is used to dealing with and it is
what is familiar to her!  She may find them frustrating, but
controlling men is what she RESPONDS TO!
>I figured
>breakfast was safe now as the venue change - I felt it would be too pushy
>against the elicited values to skip the breakfast and go into something
>(like fucking at her place).

See...she cut your legs off (and your balls too!).   You don't have
to push or control; just suggest strongly and be commanding.
>At first I wasn't getting solid EC (eye
>contact), but before
>we started out for breakfast I finally had the EC going well.
>Got to the breakfast place, poshy, sat in the patio at a small table on the
>edge.  I'm continuing with the convo, eliciting, pacing, future-pacing,
>watching my tonality, verbal and physical mirroring, light and consistent
>kino, creating more comfort for her, building emotional rapport, listening
>with extra care as she talked, etc.  I was at such a tremendous
>conversational level that breakfast ended up taking way too long (over 2
>hours) - well, actually the waiter took fucking FOREVER to get the check to
>the table but I carried the convo pretty damn well.

Dude, rapport and all feels good, but you GET RAPPORT for a purpose;
to move the person where you want them. Not to sit for 2 hours and ride
around the ranch.  You let her have control because you were SOOOO
concerned about making her "comfortable" and not being "controlling".

Hey...all the tools worked well, but you had no INTENT driving them!

Your attitude and intent are like a conductive medium; you can try
to conduct electricity through a sheet of cardboard or a sheet of
gold foil. Same current, but one will burn up and the other will
conduct the power.

You had great current (all the tools) but she turned you into wood
instead of gold, my man. So the current didn't do anything because it
didn't conduct!
>  The secondary intention of the walk was to head to her place (with
>agreement) because I wanted to see her oil paintings (she was excited to
>learn I was an artist).

She took control AGAIN.  Why? You had wishy-washy intent.   If you
are in rapport with someone and YOUR intent is wishy-washy, guess
>  She then went into the anti-slut defense phrases of "It's
>too fast", "I'm not ready" and I tried to counter with "You don't have to
>anything you don't want to do." and similar calming and soothing "It's OK,
>everything is all right, take opportunities when they are in front of you"
>kind of patterns.  And all of it was based on previous patterns and states
>had built up with her during the breakfast so I couldn't understand the
>resistance but eventually decided I should not be pushy and decided to
>simply subtly debrief her.

You need to blow through this resistance. Here is something that works:
Get a little stern in your attitude and tone. NOT TOO MUCH...a
little.  Say, " can't plan on the extraordinary. By
definition, it doesn't come along when you are ready or when you are
expecting it.  The only thing that can come along when you plan on it
is something that is just part of the routine. And I won't have my
life defined by that.  If you're feeling a little pushed, then good.
I want to push people...a little.  You can find tons of people who
will only take you where you are totally comfortable and where you
are totally used to, and if that is all I do, then what value am I?
Where is the uniqueness in that?

Now let's just go and enjoy only as far as it feels good for both of us.

(Start walking back to her place). If she doesn't follow...oh well.
>She seemed like she was on the verge of LJBFing me but hesitated because
>didn't want something else to happen (explained in a bit).

Dude, you are too happy to be there with this girl because you attach
SO much meaning to scoring with a hottie.  If she had been a war-pig
or a 5 or 6, you would have walked by now or taken control. Treat
them like you would a 5 or 6.
>I wasn't getting a clear picture of what she was looking for, only what has
>happened to her that she doesn't like.

LOOKING FOR instead of YOUR intent of where  YOU wanted to go.
>I think through this whole thing she put me in
>the "marriage material" category which set off the anti-slut defense
>mechanisms in a serious way once we were heading to her place.

No. You didn't give her a strong lead.  Full stop. She nuked your
aggression with that "controlling men" thing.
>This whole thing lasted 6 hours (yeah, yeah, I know...).  From 9:30 AM to
>about 3:30 PM.  I know I should have cut it off early but I had her in such
>strong emotional rapport and connection towards the end of breakfast, along
>with her agreement to stop at her place, that I thought ending up at her
>place was clearly the intention and that it WAS going to happen.  Then, a
>total change of state while actually heading there.  I didn't change
>I was doing from before, just continuing, which made the abrupt change so

Dude, you didn't give a strong lead. You didn't have a strong
intent. You have to be prepared for these little wiggles on their
part and be prepared to get them back on course.
>In the debrief, she felt I was a totally sincere person, sensitive to
>real needs and people in general, honest, and had every kind of thing she's
>looking for.  Yet she was scared to do anything more (implying that she
>would like to see me again but doing "more" now was "too fast")

Dude, you didn't have the "controlling" aspects she needs to get turned on!
>My intuition was
>that she didn't want to "risk" something but my ego was simultaneously
>smashed because here I was everything she could imagine ever wanting yet
>knowing what decision would totally risk losing it.

No, you are what she fantasizes she SHOULD be attracted to. In
reality, she responds to power and control. That is my read on it!
She's also into drama...look at her last two relationships!
>This is the kind of crap that would happen to me over & over a long time
>when I was AFC and didn't have a clue what I was doing in terms of
>And now that I know how to PU great chicks, the kind I want, it seems that
>still end up with these kind of crap results even when I've got an arsenal
>of know-how available to me.

Dude; the current is find. The conductive medium isn't working and
won't work.
>None of this makes sense.  She was there early.  She went against her
>friend's cockblock attempts.  She had a strong desire to see me again
>our first encounter was "meant to be" in some way.  We had a ton of
>rapport. She liked me.  She paid.  There weren't any apparent shit-tests
>thrown at me.

No, she just put you in trance, got you to hypnotically disassociate
from all aggressive and "controlling" impulses and behavior and left
your dazed and confused.
>She felt really great around me.  She kept finding ways to
>emphasize that I was different (in a positive way) than pretty much
>around her

Look; people may NOTICE what is different, but they only ACT on what
is FAMILIAR. Capeesh?  I know how to cross that gap, but I've been
working on solving that problem for the past 3 years and it involves
some heavy duty trance stuff that I am committed to NOT teaching
publicly or Major Mark will kill me.

Instead, get the mindset that you will NEVER take what she says at
face value when she tells you that she does NOT like controlling men.
When they say this, they are telling you about what they are USED to
experiencing, otherwise they wouldn't even be able to tell you they
don't like it!

What they are really saying is, "I am used to controlling men.  That
is what is familiar to me. I think, inside, I should NOT be attracted
to this, and I am trying to change it so I can be attracted to nice
men, but I don't know how. I am confused between what I think I
SHOULD be attracted to and what ACTUALLY attracts me!"

I think clicking on these links might help you:


NightLight9 commenting on Pathmaker's story:
You're not being exciting enough.  You have great connection.  You have
rapport.  You just don't  have any sexual energy.  Without that, no sex.
Also, with you being so nice and friendly and caring you don't have a high
excitement or loss factor.  She figures she'll call you tomorrow if she
wants to, and believe me she won't reach that point until she's old and
feels like
she needs to "fall back".  Don't be a fall back.

When women tell you about the guys they've dated, take note.  These are the
guys who they were attracted to, so they must have done something right.
This is hard but you need to get better at modeling their descriptions in
appropriate ways...


ebderm (Commenting on My Comment):
>....some of you want off the subscriber list to not have to read about
>other people's successes.  Comments on this would be appreciated...

I love to read detailed, specific, reports about
my other brother's successes.  Keep 'em coming.


> Mr. X (This note came with an unsubscribe instruction, for a reason I
> thought I would bring up for any reaction it may get):
> I do not have a girlfriend nor is that my goal.  What I really would like
> have is a lifestyle like Sisonpyh's. Unfortunately, my problem is that I
> study the stuff on the seduction email list but in reality never approach
> women (i.e. TAKE ACTION).  Also, I find that I am becoming envious and
> jealous
> of PUA types like Mystery, whose success I constantly have to read about
>in the seduction emails.  I suspect others on the list feel the same way???
> I think for now, I am better off to just some how try to approach and just
> talk to women and get over the fear of looking like a loser if things do
> go well.  Once I nip that in the bud, I can resubscribe to the list and
> hopefully contribute something useful.
> My Comment:  I think that the above two items point to issues that
> a lot of guys reading this have and the hole point of these emails is find
> the best ways to change that.  I guess I am a little surprised to see that
> some of these reports are causing some serious frustration to the point
> where some of you want off the subscriber list to not have to read about
> other people's successes.  Comments on this would be appreciated.

I think your list is great. One of the most useful seduction resources on
the internet, which I recommend to anyone who asks me where to go for info.

Despite not being particularly successful with SS myself, I love to read
other people's success (and even 'failure') stories. Usually it isn't about
the facts I learn, or the patterns used. More about the attitude that I pick
up on from the description of the PUA's behaviour.

I don't find it frustrating to read about other people's successes. Quite
the reverse - if Mystery, Maniac, Ross, Sisonpyh, et al can do it then, I
figure, so can I.


Brother Diamond:
Ok, I read Mr. X's letter.  And I am here to say that this
is right down my road. I will give my beginning trials and tribulations so
as to maybe
help someone  here. I've been messing with Speed
Seduction» since last August. Actually, since August 18
which was the first day of college and I got the
course that day, too : ).  Anyway...there are a couple of
phases I went through and am still going through.  My
first 5 months we will call phase 1 here.  With me, so
far? The next 4 months was, lets call it, phase 2. Ok,
good so far, aren't we??  Now I am in phase 3 and
hopefully the last phase to complete my understanding
and mastery of SS.  Let's go over the phases and see how
terrible and what went wrong with them here, shall we?

Phase 1:  I only sarged women working at places such as
retail stores, etc.  I figured that if I could sarge a woman
who was working somewhere, that she wouldn't be able to
walk away and had to listen to me.  By the way, the few
times I did do sarging to straight women cold it
didn't work well at all!!  I think that was another
reason I didn't want to do straight sarging to women
who were not actually working. Needless to say, I blew it
wonderfully.. did kick ass with the intros.. but
couldn't get past the first pattern 9 times out of 9.2
times!!  Five months of blowing it got me to thinking
about what factors were holding me back finally.

Phase 2: this time I decided to grow a stronger more
durable type of titanium back bone and only sarge
women NOT working at places.  Most of the time they
will be the ones that will have time to talk and enjoy
talking with me and not be in a  hurry to get
something done at the place I was at.  I also realized
the pitfalls of doing this is well. Well, not
pitfalls, just the other side of that theory - that
they could say they have a b/f.. married/...
engaged... etc. and so on, right? Then, after I got past
the intro I ran into more and more problems.  First, I
couldn't actually start into talking with her.  (I didn't
want to talk about our environment because it's not
really my style) and I couldn't connect and transition
at all!!  I mean at all.  I could do the patterns
somewhat well, but couldn't put them together better
than a blind man doing a puzzle with the puzzle table
rotating every 10 seconds!! lol : ) Not only this, but I
got into the bad habit of eliciting values when I first
met them.  Within the first 5 minutes or so or going
into something they really enjoyed doing and why.

Anyway I'm far beyond these things now and I really
think it's a lot like "fractionating" with SS itself. I
mean, I had to be nose in it for 5 months doing it
before I "put it on the shelf and didn't think about
this area of my life for a week or two" and started
phase 2 with a completely new concept and attitude to
start again. Phase 2 I gained many things that I hadn't
had in phase 1 but probably wouldn't have gotten so
quickly if I hadn't "put it away and not worried about
it for a little while to recuperate"... and the same
thing happend to phase 3.  I put it away for about 3
weeks and came back new and ready to hack at it again
with new ideas and enthusiasm inside. And I also
started the Unstoppable Confidence exercises, too this time.  Now, I
had done them for about a week and a half during phase
2 and something really weird happened, which I had
suddenly remembered during my "off" period between
phase 2 and 3.  It was a sarge I had done with this
lovely short blond haired women about 27 who I talked
with for about 25 minutes.  She had introduced herself
by giving her name first and shook my hand first and she
loved talking with me. She only brought up her b/f
after I made the close to meet again.  Also, keep in
mind that this sarge happened while I was doing the
Unstoppable Confidence Tapes in phase 2.  Now, it wasn't a great sarge
by any means but it had a lot of what I had never had
beforehand.  It had a great intro: shaking hands with
her, talking and trying to incorporate languaging with
her and doing a proper close that involved meeting
again.  Shaking hands with a woman early on is
something else I started doing in this phase that has
really made a difference cause it is a very necessary part.
My biggest opinion on how far I've come has been the
ability to work with the material and if you're having
problems, put it away in the beginning for a week or
two or three and don't even think about it.  Then come
back and you'll usually have new ideas and thoughts on
how you can do things you couldn't do before.
Sometimes, I think that it is almost necessary to grow
into SS like we should.  Instead of writer's block, I think we have had SS
too many times in the past : ) but it's coming along
very nicely these days. Where did I lay my M-60 again?


Brother Marcus Surrealius:
First off, Mark Bednarski's "Silent Pause" posts simultaneously address
at least three issues I had been having with walkups, and it majorly ROCKS
after doing it only three times. I find the technique both easier and harder
than I thought it would be. Which is to say that, though it's amazing how
powerful the knee-jerk habit of avoiding silence can be, one doesn't have to
break it all that consistently to see some really obvious improvements in
one's results. To wit:
I went to a coffee shop in my favorite playground, where I like to sit
and go over notes before going out and bending people's preconceived
notions. I had printed out the "Silent Pause" post, so I reread it and
reduced it down to a simple flowchart. I won't deprive anyone of the
pleasure of doing this themselves. I then hit the street looking for some
food before meeting Arna, a lovely, erudite young woman who works at a
nearby anime store (names have been changed to protect the guilty). Once
seated at a new coffee shop with croissant and java, I noticed pretty much
immediately that I had much less anxiety about making eye contact with
everyone. At first I thought it had to do with eye contact being part of the
Silent Pause, but I realized that I was now looking at women with QUESTIONS
in mind rather than having to have the ANSWERS. It looks so obvious now
seeing it print, but there it was.
Soon one of the HBs present locked eyes with me. I started to look away
after about a second, but I corrected myself and raised my eyebrows and my
hands, as if to say "you would like to say something?" I broke eye contact,
slowly got up, and approached the table. She had looked away and not thought
I would approach, I guess. She looked up a bit startled. I said something
like "Hi. What's that you're reading?" and shut the heck up. Throughout the
ensuing two-minute convo of pretty much nothing but fluff-talk and light
frame-setting, I went really slow, usually remembering to pause for
punctuation. I noticed her eyes dilate a bit as she returned my steady,
inviting gaze. She was clearly not used to this. Eventually I said, "Well,
you know I think this conversation could actually go somewhere, but I have
to be somewhere in five minutes. If you were to imagine us here again,
having that fun talk, what can we do to make sure that happens?" She said
she hangs out there all the time, so I should just name when, which I did. I
didn't bother inoculating against her youth and inexperience causing
flakiness, so I'm pretty much letting her pleasantly surprise me by showing
up. It looks like a good place to sarge anyway, so I'll see.
OK, on to Arna. Throughout our 1.5 hours together, I stuck with the
Silent Pause action the whole time, mostly to allow the effects of heavy
patterning and a really deep trance the last time we were together come
forth. I noticed two things. First, we were speaking two times slower, but
we were saying twice as much in the same amount of time. You'll have to do
the Silent Pause to really get the impact of this. Second, I noticed that,
well, she isn't quite what I thought she was. It seems like she'll be able
to introduce me to some interesting friends of hers, at least...
Thanks, Mark. I really appreciate the post. It's shown me a whole new
level of just how easy it can be to control the flow of communication.

Now, some additional responses:
> Ross:
> How does this apply to success with women? Well, one thing that
> Wooden always did was stress fundamentals. ALL of the players, from
> least to most talented were required to practice and drill the
> fundamentals, over and over and over again. NO exceptions.

As an SS student currently rebuilding after a  major slump caused by letting
frequent drilling on the basics slide, AMEN to that.
> Pathmaker:
> I have to figure out more accurately what I'm doing wrong in the following
> kind of circumstances and I need to know how I could have dealt with this
> situation better or how to do "damage control" on this kind of stuff. This
> is not one-itis but I've deemed it an "ongoing project" while I continue
> do regular PU (which I am gradually getting much better at).
> Background for this situation: ...The only negative was there was
resistance to a change of
> venue so I # closed, cheek-kissed her, and went on my way.

Here's where it starts. In a situation where you want to go all the way,
meeting her half-way won't get you there. I've snipped the rest because it
seems like more of the same problem to me.

I am reminded of Rick's post a couple of weeks ago about logical
hierarchies. If you reread that or if he posts again in response to this,
then go with what he says. BUT it's quite obvious to this student that you
consistently responded to her objections at face value. Reassuring her,
saying it will be ok, and such are all just forms of resisting what she has
to say, as is any other form of dealing with her objections on the logical
level at which they are presented. Though my understanding of the theory is
new, I've used the principles to turn this around a couple times. My
favorite tool for it would be the ratchet pattern. I encourage you to keep
up the PUA practice; I imagine you'll hit a stride with that and get over
this girl pretty quickly.
>Anyway, I still think I had done just about
> everything right and I'm a bit perplexed as to the result.
>... all I get is "too fast" and "not ready" and it
> is frustrating as hell to feel that way knowing that although I have all
> these PUA skills, I still get AFC results.

Do you get Ross's newsletter? He commented on exactly this in the last
issue, and it really helped me out. Essentially it goes like this: there is
a part of the learning curve in any skill where it seems harder the better
you get. The only thing for it is keeping at it.

And Finally,
> Mr. X (This note came with an unsubscribe instruction, for a reason I
> thought I would bring up for any reaction it may get):
> I do not have a girlfriend nor is that my goal.  What I really would like
> have is a lifestyle like Sisonpyh's. Unfortunately, my problem is ...
> My Comment:  I think that the above two items point to issues that
> a lot of guys reading this have and the hole point of these emails is find
> the best ways to change that.  I guess I am a little surprised to see that
> some of these reports are causing some serious frustration to the point
> where some of you want off the subscriber list to not have to read about
> other people's successes.  Comments on this would be appreciated.

I find his reasoning a bit bizarre. It has this surreal combination of
putting himself at the helm of these really negative states of mind. I mean,
what could you do to make this guy want to keep subscribing? Stop publishing
the evidence that this stuff really works? The reports aren't causing any
frustration; some people just choose not to own their own reactions. I wish
him luck. I find that cutting myself off from these e-mail lists (as I have
done from time to time) always had precisely an effect opposite what he is
shooting for.


>Mr. X (This note came with an unsubscribe instruction, for a reason I
>thought I would bring up for any reaction it may get):
>I do not have a girlfriend nor is that my goal.  What I really would like
>have is a lifestyle like Sisonpyh's. Unfortunately, my problem is that I
>study the stuff on the seduction email list but in reality never approach
>women (i.e. TAKE ACTION).  Also, I find that I am becoming envious and
>of PUA types like Mystery, whose success I constantly have to read about in
>the seduction emails.  I suspect others on the list feel the same way???
>I think for now, I am better off to just some how try to approach and just
>talk to women and get over the fear of looking like a loser if things do
>go well.  Once I nip that in the bud, I can resubscribe to the list and
>hopefully contribute something useful.
>My Comment:  I think that the above two items point to issues that probably
>a lot of guys reading this have and the hole point of these emails is find
>the best ways to change that.  I guess I am a little surprised to see that
>some of these reports are causing some serious frustration to the point
>where some of you want off the subscriber list to not have to read about
>other people's successes.  Comments on this would be appreciated.

There is an element of sadomasochism involved in this work as there is with
all self development work. Pushing the limits causes growing pains for all
of us. Having your face rubbed in it isn't easy on top of the growing pains.
I look at this news letter as a chance to learn.

The approach, taking action, there is several things I do to push myself in
this area because unless you have a burning desire to reach out to push your

self through failure to success most guys won't get any where.
As an RAFC myself, I have developed several structures to support me in this
transformation of my life. Doing other self development work helps me in
this area so much.
Being a PUA is extraordinary, I don't think most guys understand really what
it takes to become one.

It takes something that they don't have and that they don't know that they
don't have it, it really is facing what doesn't work about our selves, the
way we handle rejection, fear, hate, spite, we get attached to the result,
upset at not having it how we want it, pushing our self expression to new

I am not surprised some people have left the list, it is almost like they
thought it would be easy, I did, boy, did I get a rude awakening, by that I
mean, I am learning and making alot of mistakes, which is great cause I
learn so much what works what doesn't. Unfortunately, looking at that in a
positive or beneficial even if not positive way is a learning experience in
itself, is not the easiest thing to face some times.


Magic Juan:
On the silent pause:
Recently I was on a call with a woman who was making excuses
as to why she could not keep our meeting.  The excuses were
prolific, but I was able to stay centered by holding one
question in my mind "What is she going to do to make sure
we keep our meeting?"  I didn't feel it was my job to sort
out the excuses.  I didn't respond to any of them because
with each one I simply thought "Nope, that doesn't answer my
question."  I was simply looking for a match between
what she was saying and what she was willing to do to meet
with me.  I was listening for an answer.

When she got to the end of the excuses, I had not heard the
answer.  So there was a long pause as I first reviewed her
excuses to see if I could find the answer in them and then,
when I failed to recognize one, formulated my question to her
as to what she was going to do to fix her schedule.  Right as
I got clear enough on my question to put it to her, she answered
it.  She just blurted out something like "Never mind.  I'll do
whatever I have to do and call you back."  She called me back
in 5 minutes and announced that everything was fixed and
indicated when and where she'd meet me.

So, I am offering that maybe a clear idea of what it is you
want from the woman during the silence is useful.  It might
put something behind the smile you give her as you keep eye


>Len (Commenting on Pablo):
>>* - A GIR has an established pattern for her life and emotions. If you can
>>find out her patterns you can wield them to your own evil ends. (This
>>obviously applies also to SG (single girls), but a GIR often has strong
>>patterns that include a significant other. If you satisfy that pattern,
>>a good start.  If you satisfy it better than her original partner then you
>>are already destroying her BF.)
>Any chance Pablo could give a classification of the different types
>of "strong patterns" he sees?  This would be very helpful.  I once asked
>Hyperbond a question of this kind, but didn't really get an answer.  That
>was in response to his talking about a woman who had not gotten enough love
>from her father, so you step in to fill that need, possibly building a
>propulsion mechanism around it.  That's a basic general pattern and I'm
>still curious about some of the others that the PU masters may notice.

Hehe.. Just to clarify. I, Pablo, do not count myself by any means a PU
Master, though a flattering sentiment, I am a deviant psychologist from
Great Britain. I am addicted to people, and addicted to understanding the
way the mind works. When I first read and listened to some of Ross's stuff,
realized the application of some of the things I had been learning, and more
importantly I realized that I had already been performing many of the
techniques without really thinking about it.

I am the kind of guy that thinks 'Give me a rule and I'll break it' which is
a great method of expanding and learning new things. Hopefully some of the
things I write will help, but please, please don't assume that what I write
is 'law'. I write what I see, and what I do. After all, many people agreed
with Freud simply because he could explain behaviour. As it turns out, many
of his theories were based on subjective observation and spurious testing. I
know what I write works, but please question it, so that we can find out
together why and how it works.

Anyway... That aside I'll try to answer your question as best I can. I
sometimes use psychology banter, so I apologize if this is difficult to
read. But if you stop.... and just allow your mind to process at its own
pace, you'll find you are able to understand the words with great clarity.

We as humans are habitual and patterning. Patterns are ways for our minds to
do an action repeatedly with the least possible effort. After all, our brain
is constantly bombarded with stimuli and we'd need to use all our mind
capacity in order to process all the information. So when we do a certain
behaviour frequently we learn that 'pattern' of behaviour and allow that
process to become a subconscious reflex-like action. This is simple learning
theory. Take, for example, making a coffee, you don't have to consciously
think about making the coffee, you can let your mind wonder... how you can
apply the great things you're learning from this article. This is because
you have done this action so frequently, you can rely on your subconscious
to do it.
Now, take another example, sleeping. What is the pattern that you use to
get yourself to sleep? This is my pattern for going to sleep. I brush my
teeth (Taste + Procedure), I wash my face (Kino + Procedure), I get into bed
(Procedure) and I lay my head down on my Pillow (kino + Procedure). This
procedure alone is enough to get me into an alpha state of deep relaxation.
The combined procedural and stimuli effect results in me entering a very
powerful sleep mood. The reason? These are things that I have anchored to my
state of pre-sleep. Sure, I can use the significant anchor of simply laying
my head down. That is powerful enough to take me to sleep, and being tired
obviously a huge factor. But try it... Anchor after anchor in a specific
order (a pattern) will multiply the effect ten fold!
So okay.. How does this help us?
Well... patterns are something that we just do. An interesting test is this.

For the next week monitor your activity. Every time you do a sequence of
actions that you repeat throughout the week, jot down the actions you
perform and the state that they take you to. This is an effective way of
monitoring your personal patterns. Are there thought patterns that you use
in order to justify? Make yourself happy? Be creative?
When you find a pattern. Use it to take yourself to a new state,
or find out if you can change your pattern to be more effective, or just
play around and mix patterns...

When you can see patterns in yourself you will find it alot easier to see it
in other people..

So ummm.. okay.. but how does this actually help us...

Well a major technique of NLP and SS is to anchor someone to a particular
state and to then use that to reframe them. Now, the real beauty of patterns
is that everybody has them, so why set an anchor for a state when we can use
a person's own pattern for taking them to a particular state? Patterns are
more powerful, longer lasting, more subtle than setting an anchor! (They can
be a bitch to find though, and they are often much more complex and not as
pure...) However, the point is to widen your arsenal of seduction not to
limit it to either anchoring or patterning.

So okay.. we know what a pattern is.. how do we use them?

The first step is to look at a person's behaviour. The NLP and SS
presupposition is that mind and body do not exist independently.  So when a
person behaves in a way, this will take them to a certain state. So when a
person behaves in a way more than once (frequent behaviour), we can assume
that this is a pattern and will therefore lead them to a particular state
and/or will be only part of a pattern and will therefore lead to the rest of
that pattern.
It's obviously important to look for the right patterns. After all, we
don't want to be taking a girl to ecstasy only to then use a funeral pattern
or something stupid...

For instance, in my recent wedding post I told about a girl I met who had an
explanatory pattern that she used to perform deeds, and to remove the guilt
associated with that deed.

Saying 'We're only human, aren't we' + Touching hand = removal of guilt

(Okay so there are loads of other processes going on.. But this is the basic
cause and effect)

So by me saying that back to her, I have performed her process of removing
guilt and she will therefore experience that removal of guilt. I have used
her own pattern to make her feel something.

Now a powerful point about patterns is that if you start a pattern, then
your subconscious will often finish the procedure for you. So if we start a
pattern for someone else we may find that they perform the rest of a pattern
without any further help! Interesting theory? Try it out!

So according to this theory we have patterns for everything in our lives!
This will and does effect you! In Seduction here are some specific patterns
to look for ....

(Obviously we all have different patterns, the whole point of them is that
they are self-set procedural anchors)

EXPLANATORY PATTERN- Ways to explain away guilt

PASSION PATTERN - Ways to express passion

INTIMACY PATTERN - (GIR's will have a pattern they use with their BF. If you
modify this pattern you can have the same effect. Yet have it too similar
and they could be thinking of their BF. However, if you do it the same as
her BF but better, then you're going to destroy her BF! )

HAVE SEX PATTERN - (ever got a girl extremely randy, but for some reason
when it comes to the crunch she for some unexplainable reason just stops and
says.. no , noo I can't? Yeh, bollox to that! One explanation could be that
you have not patterned her correctly.. If you follow HER pattern and not
your own then you may not have this problem.)
I'm not interested pattern - Break her pattern. Get her doing something
completely different and get her doing it quick...

I LOVE YOU PATTERN - depends I suppose on whether you want her to follow you
around for the rest of your life..

(There's loads more!!!)

Now these are behavioural patterns! But if you want to go one step deeper,
you could try and find out what are the reasons behind those patterns? Like,
for instance, the father not loving the daughter or whatever. To be honest,
unless you're a therapist, then why bother? I mean, unless it comes up and
therefore leads to you finding out someone's pattern. I can only suppose
Hyperbond started off with the knowledge that her father didn't love her and
then based his behaviour around the fact that she wanted a father type
figure. I'm not sure if this is a direct behavioural pattern.  After all,
she didn't create it.  But then if it works? If we can create a pattern
as we do when we enter a relationship anyway, then what the hell.  My
motto 'Whatever gets the girl'.

So now when you think about patterns, they are just a more complex way of
feeding back and mirroring a target. They are pretty much what you do
already in rapport gaining. However, patterns go all the way from simply a
touch on the hand, to a series of connected stimuli and words . The end
result being a frame shift. However, patterns also relate to simply pacing
your victim, erm I mean target.  After all, learning what they are thinking
allows you to lead them that much more gracefully.

Okay. I just wrote this as is. I'm not sure if it got across entirely what I
really wanted to say, but never the less I hope it helped. This is my
interpretation of the 'Pattern' if I am wrong and have inadvertently
described some other process entirely then please communicate that to me.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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