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"Besides castration, I’m open to ideas"

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Besides castration, I’m open to ideas
6/21/01 1:03:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time


If you are in Montreal and not on my Montreal email list, please email me
and let me know.  You will be advised of events that will happen here and
other interesting occurrences from time to time.


Last weekend, my friend Eric and I were out meeting women on the street.  We
met these two really attractive ones in an ice cream store but they weren't
giving us any openings in the conversation.  At the end, Eric said the
following which I thought was brilliant:
Eric:  You should be in P.R. and communications.
Her:  Really, why do you say that?
Eric: Because you are such a good talker.


TheArt Returns

TheArt is back at Yahoo! Groups now with a different moderator (he's
just pinched the groovy name!) but we're trying to get back all our lost
members and some new ones so we can start our friendly discussions,
helpful advice and hopefully some exchange of copyrighted material (he
he - only joking Ross, you know we wouldn't do that to ya!)
So to subscribe just send an e-mail to:
The***e@ya***.com[ ? ]

Or go the page and sign up from there!
This isn't competition from Clifford's list - you can be on both to
learn even more than you could from either one individually!
So come in and say Hi, and if anyone knows why we were shut down last
time, we'd all like to know!


Ham Burgler:
Who are some "cocky and funny" guys (characters in movies, TV shows, etc.)
to model? I've been interested in this idea and I've been on the look out
guys with this attitude since Sisonpyh's post.

Here are the Swingers' rules (taken from The same guys who made
Swingers (a great PUA movie) also came up with some rules:
1.  There are no rules.   The bottom line is make genuine contact at all
costs. If you connect on a genuine level, you have the ball. Shake it up and
have fun. Everyone is bored and sick of the bullshit. An honest moment of
connection is refreshing.

2.  Team play.  There's plenty to go around. If you hog the ball, the team
loses. Your friends are not your adversaries. Work together and everyone
wins. Petty competition makes everyone look bad. Worst of all, you look
desperate or bitter. everyone likes fun. Keep it fun. It's fun to share.

3.  Less is more.  People like to fill in the blanks. People also want
things to be perfect. Keep your mouth shut and they'll fill in the blanks
perfectly. Don't try to guess what they're looking for. It's not about what
you say, it's how you listen.

4.  Women aren't dumb.  Women are smart. Take this into consideration.
They're good at reading the vibe and are in tune with what's really going
down. They know what's happening. Don't manipulate, deny, and condescend.
It's insulting.

5.  Be honest. Women like attention. It's flattering as long as you're
respectful and honest. Formalities are not nearly as important as respecting
their intelligence.  Be honest with yourself and with them. If you want
intimacy, then own up to it. Don't come at them like you're interested in
their nail polish if what you really want is intimacy. It's insulting.
You're a man, she's a woman. Deal with it. The more you pretend that it's
not about sexual attraction, the harder it will be to redefine the
parameters. Honesty works like magic if you're free from guilt. The truth
shall set you free.

6.  If you must lie, keep it simple.  Lying is bad. Forget the ethical
issue, it's bad business. It demonstrates a lack of self-confidence. Even if
you get away with it, you're going down the wrong road.  But if a friend
gets in trouble, sometimes a simple lie can be a perfect parachute.

7.  Setting the tone.  You're a man, so present yourself as one. Confidence
and being comfortable with one's self is very attractive. So if you're
attracted to a beautiful baby, be both confident and comfortable with that.
Don't apologize or qualify how you're feeling. She'll respect you for it.

8.  Timing is everything.  There's nothing like a good entrance. You
wouldn't want to sit at a table that wasn't set. If you're there too early,
you look desperate. Show up late like you're "just stopping by," and you
come off like the man about town.

9.  Deer in the headlights.  Everyone wants a mystery. Staring deadpan at a
beautiful baby cheats her out of the suspense and courtship she deserves.
Keep it intriguing and give her the gift of a challenge.

10.  The law of the jungle.  The strongest will survives. Don't waste your
time filling your head with self-doubt. The competition's fierce, so always
give yourself the edge. A sense of self-respect makes all the difference in
the world. You can be the king of the Jungle or just another hyena cowering
at the water hole. It's all up to you.

11.  Be a bad man.  Don't hide the fact that you like sex. That doesn't mean
act like the fourteen year old on the back of the bus who's constantly
pulling on himself and making obscene noises. It just means own your
sexuality and don't apologize for it.

12.  The Waiting Game.  Be a man with a slow hand. The ladies love foreplay,
and that's exactly why you wait a few days before you call. No reason to
rush it. Let her savor the wait. She'll thank you later.

13.  Grace under pressure.  Our generation is the first to be presented with
the challenge of the answering machine. A good message can put you on the
fast track to paradise, a bad one can lead to public ridicule and endless
playbacks to the delight of family and friends. The stakes are high. This is
no joke.  The golden rule is keep it simple. Don't try to over explain who
you are or how you're feeling. It's a moment frozen in amber. It's a small
piece of your soul. Give her a taste--the little pink spoon, not the whole

14.  Skip the birdseed.  Sometimes it just happens. Let it. Don't let stupid
rules from a book get in the way. If you're lucky enough to have things
unfold organically, don't ruin it. You're money.

15.  Trust yourself.  You're always better off trusting yourself and playing
your game. You wouldn't ask Stockton to bang the boards for rebounds and you
wouldn't want Shaq trying to drain threes. Stick with what feels right. That
way, even if you fail, you've learned something. Trust your instincts and
think for yourself.

What do you guys think?  I think most of it just reaffirms what we already
know.  Any comments?


Jeff (Commenting on "The Silent Pause"):
I've field tested this technique twice and got nowhere both times. It
prolonged the conversation slightly but no number. The last girl wouldn't
even give me a sample of her handwriting.

My Comment:  This actually brings up a topic that may or may not be related
to what you said.  When I was younger and less experienced, I often went up
to women and they wouldn't give me the time of day.  They'd walk away, turn
from me, etc. well before (in my opinion) they knew enough about me to do
anything like that.  But today, I am significantly more sure of myself and
relaxed when I meet them, and I can't even remember the last time I wasn't
able to get into a reasonable conversation with someone I approached
(whether or not they were available or interested to know more).  I think
the Silent Pause, and everything else, works a lot based on your own use of
it and how you come across.  A lot of the techniques you read here work in a
large part because you "are the man", as they say.  And when you aren't,
they don't work (or at least, they don't work as well).


Mark Bednarski:
The test:
This weekend a woman put me to a huge test and I passed with flying colors.
We made plans for 6 p.m. on Saturday. At 2:00 p.m. she calls me and says she
will be late because she has to go wedding dress shopping with her aunt for
her aunt's wedding and that she will not be ready until 8:00. I said fine.
At 7:30 she calls and says she is running late and will not be ready until
8:30. At 8:40 she calls and said she will be ready at 9:30 but could only
spend about an hour with me. At this time I said "Listen, I will not
tolerate such lateness and disrespect for my time. YOU better become better
organized and have respect for my time. If you cannot keep the original time
I have no interest in seeing you and I am not interested in seeing you only
for an hour. If that is the case then you better stay home." She said she
will be right over at my place. Within 20 minutes she was there and stayed
the whole night until 3:00 p.m. on Sunday and we fucked each other's brains
out for hours at a time. She was accommodating and did everything I told her
to do.

Standing up to a woman is one of the greatest things that a man can do. They
respect you and do not see you as needy and insecure. Now I will do this
every time that a woman tries to get out of hand.


Brother Diamond:
Wanted to note a result I come across. I
was sarging at a Walmart and picked up this hot ass
blond girl about 25 or so with three friends.  I had
noticed she was the only one not really having much
fun walking around and was also the cutest of the
three, so I singled her out to sarge.  After some
goodies and stuff we closed the conversation to meet
again where she works.   She's a bartender for
the VFW!  I sure hope none of those old guys try to
Speed Seduce her before I get there!! : )  Also, I
noticed while I was talking to her she liked to stand
in my personal space, and I mean that.  If a guy was
standing that close to me, I would have taken it as a
definite threat.  Is that peculiar or just her being
desperate/a little horny?

I've come across women who
I chat with for a few minutes and then try to close to get
numbers...and then they say they have a boyfriend. Now they
didn't bring it up before that and sometimes I'm not too
sure they do have a boyfriend in the first place or
just giving bullshit tests to see if I would accept
that as a reason leave. Would it be better to just
proceed onto the b/f destroyer anyway and not worry
about if she does or doesn't have one?

Like my last sarge outing... I sarged about 8 women
and 6 of them said of having a b/f after going for the close for a
number.  One was the bartender that I wrote about previously and
the last was an "other" category.   This is just a curious note
on women trying to claim to have a b/f when they don't
have one and what would using the b/f destroyers do in
those cases.  Any ideas? : )


Remember the Kiki Dee song "I've Got The Music In Me"?  There's a line that
goes "I've got words in my head so I say them."  My problem is I DON'T say
the words in my head.  Sometimes that's a good the other night
at a restaurant it struck me that one advantage to hot waitresses was that
they kept the food from getting cold.  I didn't say this to my server
because his name was Jeremy.

The next night, I was coming out of a bookstore and an attractive woman was
walking toward me.  Rather than do the obvious thing and say "hi" I tried to
smile..and it didn't seem to come out right.  (I've heard that before...I
remember smiling at someone and she said "what's so funny?").


I'd like to raise the issue of public displays of affection (pda's). Or more
specifically, pda's while walking (wpda). What I mean by this is the
showing to others while you are walking with your girl that you and she are
on a sexual basis.

Obviously, the most common public display of affection while walking is
HOLDING HANDS. Another less common is ARM AROUND NECK -- where the guy
slings his arm around a woman's neck. There is a variation on this where
the guy then holds the woman's hand with the hand that is around her neck --
and so her hand is raised up in the air. It makes the guy look dominant and
the woman submissive, as her hand is in the air. (Yet another wpda that
I've seen but never done 'cause it's kind of extreme, is to walk behind your
girl with your arms around her and both of you in contact. I saw a couple
walking like this once, and there was a lot that the guy was communicating
in walking like this, believe me, a lot about how he was dominant, etc.)

Anyways, the point of me bringing this up is that I've noticed a dilemma
that guys face with regard to wpda's.

And the dilemma is this: I think that a guy if he is with his girlfriend (or
a chick he's banging) in public and walking with her, he must communicate
that he is with her sexually, so he must use a wpda. And most guys
recognize this and hold their girls' hands -- kind of to say to other guys,
"She's mine." BUT YET IN DOING THE WPDA, the guy is also giving a lot of
intimacy to the girl, and he's conveying, in the girl's mind, a lot of
FEELING FOR HER. And this is a bad thing for the girl's interest level and
for the guy's attempt to maintain challenge in the relationship. Because
the more the guy holds her hand, THE MORE THE GIRL THINKS HE IS INTO HER.
And the more the girl thinks he's into her, the less of a challenge he is.
It's the same principle that says a guy would be dumb to bring a rose on the
third date or tell a girl how beautiful she is. Because once a chick knows
that a guy is really into her, her interest level goes down because he's not
a challenge, I really believe this.

So the point is, how can you satisfy your need in telling others that you're
with this girl sexually, without giving her so much intimacy as holding

One thought that I have (that I got as I was writing this), is it might be
possible to intermittently lean real close to your girl and say something in
her ear -- a display like that might let people know that you are sexual
with her, without giving her the great satisfaction (and decreased interest
level) of holding her hand.

Because consider this. When you see a very hot woman in public with a guy,
you always know whether they are sexual with each other or not, right?
Because almost always (at least in my experience), the guy will be holding
the chick's hand, or even more of a dominant male, he might have his arm
around her. Because if I saw a very hot chick with a guy, my first thought
would be to wonder whether they are together sexually. And if there's any
doubt, if you think they might be brother and sister, or friends, or he
might be gay, etc., then in your mind, at least mine, you start to think
that she might be available, and you get the idea that you might be able to
approach, even if you don't approach -- you do get the idea.

So obviously, the point is this: When you're with a chick, if you can
communicate through your body language» that you are with this chick
OTHER GUYS. But if you fail to communicate that you're with her, my feeling
is that over the long haul, you're going to get challenged a lot.

But yet, and this is the point, how do you communicate that you're with your
girl sexually, through body language», without giving your chick the constant
kind of intimacy that will eventually lower a chick's interest level in you?

Smart people (or real lady killers), it'd be nice to hear from you on this


dj eclypz:
(Commenting on Ross):
>Dude, you are too happy to be there with this girl because you attach
>SO much meaning to scoring with a hottie.  If she had been a war-pig
>or a 5 or 6, you would have walked by now or taken control. Treat
>them like you would a 5 or 6.

Ok, here is a point that really stuck out for me.

Ross, I have loved your material from day one. I have been seducing for two
years now and for better or for worse I have become more of the man I wanted
to be, slowly but surely. But time and time and time again, I look back at
my experiences and ask myself what I could have done better. Well, sort of
like logical levels I chunk up and chunk up until I get to a point where I
realize a "nine" or "ten" is still affecting me in ways a "six" or a "five"

Now, I'm working hard on that, and I've promised myself to spend the next
weeks or so just getting over the whole beauty thing. What I'm trying to say
is that I'm searching for a way to turn off my lust or attraction long
to see a beautiful woman as a person. At the same time, I don't want to turn
it off so far that I don't "go there first". Every time I have been able to
turn my attraction down, it holds for some time, until I go into a state of
attraction in order for her to follow....

Ok, enough of my lengthy explanation, let me just say this.

I would give back my seduction study course. I would give back all the
materials for mental change that I have accumulated over the past two years.
I would mentally erase any of the skills I have developed so far, simply to
be able to look at a gorgeous woman and be able to treat her like I do a
woman whom I'm not attracted to.


Besides castration, I'm open to ideas. No, I'm demanding for my own mental
health, that someone help me to overcome this giant obstacle in my life. I'm
willing to do all the work, but I'm dying for someone to give me the

I know you covered this in your course, but in my case anyways (and I'm
imagining I'm not the only one) you only touched the surface of this
particular issue, which is absolutely essential for success in this area...

My Comment:  Personally, I don't know why you want to totally remove the
effect a woman you find really attractive can have on you.  I have myself
found that by continually approaching those type of women, I have developed
an ease with it that is very different from how it used to be.  I have long
been able to put my lust aside and treat the woman I am talking to as a
person and I think that mainly comes over time and constant working at it.
It is a key skill to have -- if you come across as hungry, you won't get

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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