| fast seduction 101 promotion section |
 If you haven’t already visited the
 ASF forum or Player
Guide web board, now would be a good time to do
so… Don’t forget to this site! Fast Seduction 101
now has a 
product review section. |
Get thee to a nunnery!
6/26/01 5:24:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time
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Cacofonixx in New Delhi, India would like to hear from people in India who
share these interests. Write him at: tal***v@ma***.com[ ? ]
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A note to Ross: I like the changes you made to the Speed Seduction» website.
For those looking to visit it, it is now at www.speed-seduction.com.
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Dr. Dennis W. Neder (Author, "Being a Man in a Woman's World"
Remington Publications):
"Being a Man" has opened a discussion board available to anyone. Check it
out at:
www.remingtonpublications.com. The click on the "Discussion" button on the
left.
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Ron:
If you are one of the bros that are still waiting for a refund from Bishop
and thought you had no recourse - The Federal Trade Commission is the
government agency that regulates Internet advertising. If you want to
pursue the matter further, click on the link below and fill out the form.
https://rn.ftc.gov/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01"
Hope this helps some of the bros that have been ripped off.
My Comment: From what I understand, Bishop has been able to deliver an
e-book
but returning money is a problem. Given that someone has ordered it and by
requesting their money back they are changing their minds, it seems to me
that the smart thing to do would be to take the e-book rather than nothing
or to start making complaints and getting involved in chasing after someone
(which just takes your time and energy, which should be worth more than what
you've already paid to Bishop).
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Art:
(Commenting on "Oh my God, some guy told me the same thing just
last week, he said I had a quiet elegance and was saying something about a
chord of light or something like that.....he was weird". Obviously I
congratulated
my daughter on having the presence of mind to shut this scumbag down cold,
and I'm sorry guys...I told her what to look out for.")
If you are getting caught at using SS, it is because
you are reciting the scripts that Ross and his
students have published. This is a mistake I made when
I first started using SS back in '93, '94.Women noticed that I
sounded weird, unnatural and phony. This was due to the
fact that Ross's words aren't mine and to the fact his
material is widely distributed, particularly among
college students. As most of you know, many of these
patterns have been published on the web, so it is easy
for females to learn of this technology.
However, if you don't want to caught, learn the process
not the scripts. This will take a bit more time, but
it is well worth the effort. Learn the rudiments of
rapport, trance language, time distortion. Learn how
to truly calibrate what your subject is handing back to
you in the way of responses. Learn proper tonality.
Spend time finding her submodalities thru watching her
eye movements. Then create your own patterns that are
flexible enough to adapt to the particular female you
are with. If she gives resistance, then drop the
pattern, because you haven't enough rapport with her or
you haven't tranced her deeply enough.
Case in point, I've been using SS for about 8 years and
have come across a number of females who are in the
mental health profession. I've seduced 6. Of those 6,
all informed me that NLP was bullshit. 3 of the 6 had
training in hypnosis. None of them ever picked up on
what I was doing. Afterward, I even revealed to one
that I was using SS, but she felt her attraction was based
on "the deep connection" we had made, not that useless
NLP.
Become independent from pattern recitation and learn
the technology behind it. Those 19 year olds won't even
know what hit them.
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Halbster:
Regarding the Silent Pause. I just had an interesting experience. A woman
was justifiably angry at me for something I recently said or did. While
discussing it with her I hit a cell phone static zone (I know that it was a
real static zone from prior experiences). She said I can't hear what you're
saying and it is probably something wonderful that I really want to hear.
This worked better than any apology or anything else that I could have said.
Her imagination filled in everything I needed. LOL
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Brother Diamond (Giovanni):
There was a remark earlier about not doing cold
approaches because they didn't work. That's the
difference between PUA's and SS'ers. I'm dead serious
about that. That's half the SS story. Doing this
talk about the environment is way overrated. It's old
and boring. Why does it keep coming up as good
conversation to talk with a women on??
It's not. PERIOD. Now I didn't say pacing her reality
wasn't important but that's not what this was about.
SS'ers know the difference between talking to a women
about every question about a new pair of shoes and
using process language...feelings and
challenges. BORING. COMMON.
AFC REMINDER: any average frustrated chump can ask a women dozens
of questions on something she bought. I don't because I
realized how that method of conversation is AFCish.
Not unless it has a good purpose or I can use it to
further my seduction. Not to get into a friendly chat
about the weather or what kind of coffee she has for
breakfast.
Let's start paying more attention to our conversations
and what we share with women conversation-wise. And
how they relate to common AFC thinking, ok?? If you
look at it you will notice that it is right down AFC
highway. All the way. Because it is.
My Comment: I think that you have this all mixed up. Pacing the ongoing
reality is an excellent technique which I use all the time when I am doing
cold approaches. It's a perfectly neutral topic and most of the time the
woman will take the conversational ball and give you some direction after.
From there you can listen for her trance words, elicit her values, etc. But
the first things you say to someone need to be somewhat non-intrusive
(although, come to think of it, being intrusive may be a good idea) since
you are talking to a stranger (well, at least it's more my style to be very
polite when I am meeting someone for the first time and I have found that
this works for me).
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NightLight9:
> GameMaster Continues:
> Now, I have to inform all the Brothers who may be going to school at
Auburn
> "Your cover is BLOWN". My 19 year old daughter was up last week and we
went
> out on the town one nite, she was looking radiant and I was trying to
think
> of
> something special to complement her on so I guess my subconscious reached
> into my SS bag of goodies and I said 'something' to which she replied " Oh
> my God, some guy
> told me the same thing just last week, he said I had a quiet elegance and
> was saying
> something about a chord of light or something like that.....he was weird".
> Obviously I
> congratulated my daughter on having the presence of mind to shut this
> scumbag down cold, and I'm sorry guys...I told her what to look out for.
>
> The worst thing about having a 19 year old daughter......19 year olds are
> off the target list!
That's the silliest thing I ever heard. When she's 30 does that mean only
31+ women. Good thing you didn't have a kid when you were 14... Anyway, to
your other point. If you get nailed reciting patterns then you are likely
both incongruent and a poor communicator in general. If you don't
preface pattern language with rapport and softeners any woman will think
you're strange. If you watch beginners, it's pretty easy to pick up where
they
just go into parrot mode, at the wrong time and with no congruence. To you
beginners reading this: Practice transitions in the mirror and think about
what a
woman says and where the conversation and her mind set is if you are
going to transition into patterns.
Back to your Daughter. Your 19 year old daughter is going to be blowing
some guy in his back seat of his Daiwoo before you know it. Does it really
matter if he used a pattern to get there or she liked his tongue ring?
Instead of worrying about SS, teach her the two golden rule I tell all the
women I really care about. 1) if a guy says one thing and does another,
always assume the worst of the two is his true intention. Men are raised to
try to make women happy, so if he says sweet things and acts like a jerk, or
tells you he doesn't want to be your boyfriend but cuddles and kisses you,
he
is just having trouble going all the way with his true intentions. Guys
aren't accidental assholes. 2) Never sleep with a guy for the first week/3
dates (longer if you can hold out). Sleeping with someone doesn't ruin a
relationship that would have otherwise turned out great, but not sleeping
with a guy is a great filter for guys who just want to fuck you. If a guy
likes you he'll wait a couple of weeks and if a guy doesn't he won't waste
your time...
> Seems to me we have the Rashomon effect here. Whenever a person remembers
> something, their current state of consciousness influences what they
> remember. I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with the
> understanding that the unconscious mind can't really tell the difference
> between input and output. Nonetheless, there's a ton of brain research
that
> shows how memory is an iterative process. Decisions look cut and dry in
> retrospect, but in practice I've noticed that they get remade over and
over
> again until they are subconscious habit. That's why time distortion is so
> powerful; it posits having made the decision over and over again for
months.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think women initially
qualify some set of guys they would sleep with and then the spend the rest
of the time disqualifying him through tests. So it's true, she may have
decided she would sleep with you in the first 30 seconds and then you just
didn't fuck up. I think that is a huge part of seduction (the not fucking
it up ;-). The other half is creating and accelerating sexual thoughts. I
had a great example of this last night, with this girl who didn't want to
get with me because her friends all told her I was a player. It was obvious
she was attracted to me, but I had a huge obstacle in that she "knew" I was
"bad" and we were at her friend's house sleeping in the living room so the
risk of getting caught being "slutty" by associating with me was high. I
just kept building rapport with this girl by matching her comments (a large
part of this was what I call not fucking up, which is matching her exactly
and never verbally mistepping). She's actually really cool, so this was
easy, and I hope to continue to hang with her. After about 2 hours of this
I finally could transition to sexual stuff so I started asking her about
sexual connections and then what she liked. Finally I tried to kiss her
again. She said no (this was about the 4th time I'd tried to kiss her as
she had allowed me to have close physical proximity). I said, "Because you
don't want to?" (according to NLP this is horrible, but I think it's a great
line). She said (an ambiguous) "no." I said, "just a little kiss for a
second". An hour later I getting a BJ while I fingered her on the sofa.
One
of the keys was all the value elicitation on what turned her on.
> Further, avoiding the typical mistakes would only allow you access to a
> woman's usual repertoire of romantic possibilities. It wouldn't make for
her
> looking back and thinking, "Wow! He's opened up parts of me I never knew I
> had!" And we know how the technology we are discussing can let this
happen.
Yup.
> Now, I would still allow that first impressions are important. But in
order
> to convert that positive first impression into a beautiful experience down
> the line, there needs to be some consistency in between.
I agree that the human mind is totally fallible and our recollections are
very poor. In a related note, I saw a great article that said brain wave
study showed that we actually make "conscious" decisions (like to grab a
fork) in our subconscious and then they bubble up to our conscious where we
only think we make the decision (this was evidenced by the fact that our
muscle movement to grab the fork came before the associated conscious brain
wave activity).
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Caco the talkative one:
> anything like that. But today, I am significantly more sure of myself and
> relaxed when I meet them, and I can't even remember the last time I wasn't
> able to get into a reasonable conversation with the Silent Pause,
and everything else, works a lot based on your own use of
> it and how you come across. A lot of the techniques you read here work in
a
> large part because you "are the man", as they say. And when you aren't,
> they don't work (or at least, they don't work as well).
Well well, I think you almost have the thing but for this I would like to
quote from Ross's newsletter (maybe the 16th one) in which he talks about
setting
frames. If you do not set the right frame... in my words, have the right
intention and the right body language», then it will not work. The silent
pause
works with a smile.. not if you're looking slightly tense .. and your point
about being the man is fine but then that brings control and confidence into
the
equation then everything works else or nothing does.
> My Comment: Personally, I don't know why you want to totally remove the
> effect a woman you find really attractive can have on you. I have myself
> found that by continually approaching those type of women, I have
developed
> an ease with it that is very different from how it used to be. I have
long
> been able to put my lust aside and treat the woman I am talking to as a
> person and I think that mainly comes over time and constant working at it.
> It is a key skill to have -- if you come across as hungry, you won't get
> fed.
Also like in the other material...you have got to go out there and just do
it! Like Ross wrote on the site about himself: he had a new sense of ease
and
confidence after approaching HB's by the ton. Cause I remember the first
time I
did it. It felt damn awkward but you soon learn that other than doing it,
there
is no other way. Also the way Ross talks about the chyck seducing android
might help.
Comment on dj eclypz:
>I would mentally erase any of the skills I have >developed so far, simply
to be able to look at a >gorgeous woman and be able to treat her like I do
>a woman whom I'm not attracted to.
>Period.
>Besides castration, I'm open to ideas. No, I'm >demanding for my own mental
health, that someone help >me to overcome this giant obstacle in my life.
I'm
>willing to do all the work, but I'm dying for someone >to give me the
instructions!!!
How about this thing I tried out in the beginning: I would go out on my two
wheeled scooter, and at any intersection with a traffic light which would
take
long to change I would approach any female and ask her if she often used
the seat belt or not.
The idea behind this is that in India very few people wear seat belts. So I
would bullshit to them about doing a survey about wearing seat belts and
driver safety. To prove my point, I would have my ID card ready and since
I'm
from a very respected college therefore no one would object.
Now the main point of this was to get the balls to talk to any hottie in a
car. And even better if she got angry. Well, I would be running off once
the
light turned green. Then to pace their reality, I did another game. In my
city Delhi, the red traffic signal has stickers with the word "relax"
printed over them. Now I
would ask them if they were feeling bored (and then try to get a short convo
going) and if they asked well I would say that I'm researching whether the
"relax" stickers actually work. Now at this point, most of them would laugh
and since the red traffic signal never lasts more than 2-3 minutes this
gave me the balls to approach any female without considering her as an HB 9
or
anything else.
What do you think about this little experiment of mine?
Another question: I am one of those really fast talkers and often while
patterning or during convo, I feel that the females miss many of my
words. Any specific ways to slow down my speech?
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Brother Diamond Giovanni:
I came up with an absolutely crazy and hilarious
introduction for women. I was riding in my car earlier
listening to Bishop's CD set and I saw this girl in a
car. I thought to myself "Man, I know her, her name is
XXX but it can't be...who is that?" Then the
powers of Speed Seduction» hit me again and I came up
with this; try it out and see if you like it : )
I call this the "Maxwell Smart Introduction:"
You: Erica! Erica! There you are!!!!
Her: Uhhmm, are you talking to me??
You: Oh Erica, stop playing around, I want to show you
something in this aisle over here!!
Her: Uhhmm, my name isn't Erica it's (her name goes
here)
You: (look disappointed and frown as you say) So your
name isn't.............. Erica??
Her: Uhh, no it's not.
You: Would you believe.... YOU HAVE A FRIEND NAMED
ERICA?? (Here pause between the 'believe and you' and
step on the last part of the sentence.)
Her: Ummmm no, I wouldn't. (laughs )
You: I know what it is!! You would .....LIKE TO HAVE
A FRIEND NAMED ERICA AND A PET GOLDFISH NAMED
BUBBLES!!!!
(or is she says "Well, yes, I do have a friend named
Erica") you can continue this with this alteration:
You: See, I knew it!! I knew it all along. you have a
friend named (put HER name here) and your name is
REALLY ERICA, ISN'T IT?? You can't fool me with your evil
dastardly plot to over throw the world!!
Her: (laughs) My God!!
You: You know, I'm glad you laughed because I really do
think you are absolutely breathtaking and I wanted to
make sure you had more going for you than that before
I introduced myself. My name is... Diamond. : )
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Flyer:
>>Adam:
>>Besides castration, I'm open to ideas. No, I'm demanding for my own mental
>>health, that someone help me to overcome this giant obstacle in my life.
I'm
>>willing to do all the work, but I'm dying for someone to give me the
>>instructions!!!
>I had the same problem. Here is what I've noticed and what I used to get
>over it:
>I'd like to bet money that you live/work in an environment where you have
>very little contact with Hotties, right? A lot of the anxiety you're
>feeling is that they are perceived as SCARCE. They are something "SPECIAL"
>because they are rare and you do not see them often.
That last statement about environment is so true. I assume this is the same
bro that stated "When every CHICK around you is a HOTTIE, your subconscious
starts to tell you that "Women who look like this are average. They are the
norm" and
hence you don't need to feel anxiety around them because they're no longer
anything special."
This is very important to remember. If you live in PIG CENTRAL than, yes an
HB is a rare thing, and hence it will be your instinct is to perceive them
as SCARCE. In fact, in my area I've yet to meet a really hot HB that wasn't
already happily bought and paid for in marriage. It took me a long time to
realize this, mainly because I believed every yutz who would say "beautiful
women are everywhere" - that's simply not true. One must seek them out, to
places where they would be.
I stopped going to nightclubs, because a lot of HB's if not most are out to
simply to play games and waste your time. They usually go in groups to the
clubs, so some groups may be playing the game of how many phone numbers
they can score and throw away, some may be simply trying to score free booze
and coke [the nose candy stuff that is].
Now, do all chycks in nightclubs want to score coke and booze?? No, not
all,
but a lot do. The prettier she is, the higher probability she's a player.
Despite the so-called "equality" among the sexes in this country, as far as
the social scene goes, women still expect the man to make the first move.
There are only three types of guys in the U.S. that get approached by hot
chycks : millionaire rock stars, entertainment industry moguls, and coke
dealers. So there you are, in a night club, and as you bother to spend your
time and energy to get to know her better, she simply gives you the
run-around of some sorts. Not even enough time to get in your sargying.
I said "NO MORE" to this a long time ago.
The one thing that you can do, is to frequent a decent strip joint. Not
necessarily an expensive place, but not a skank bar either. What you want is
a nice second tier club with decent hot looking dancers. Don't concern
yourself with trying to pick them up. But here is what is different in the
strip club environment versus the standard night-club scene:
1. You can pretty much be assured the chicks there at the strip club will be
hot looking, provided you choose a decent club.
2. They are going to approach you, NOT the other way around. Now, understand
that she is going to try to jones you for a table dance, but being at a
strip club, YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS, and SHE ALSO KNOWS THAT YOU KNOW THIS.
So, we now have a level playing field - there is the understanding between
the dancer and the club patron of this little game.
This is a refreshing feeling. By going to a strip club you will at least be
in an environment where the chicks are hot, scantily dressed and coming up
to you -- so you can decide to give the chyck the run-around, or get to know
her better if you want to.
The nice thing is, in time, as the other bro mentioned, you will see these
types of chycks to be the norm, and you might find yourself one day scoring
a phone number and dating one of them.
I know there are a lot of bros who successfully do the nightclub circuit --
my kudos to them. But as far as I'm concerned, you can keep the non stripper
nightclub environment.
As Shakespeare once said: "Get thee to a nunnery!", Flyer is saying: "Get
thee to a strip club!"
My Comment: Ouch, your anger is really apparent. While I tend to agree
with you about the scarcity of true hotties, I have had a different
experience in recent years (as I have gained in experience) and I think
you'd be upset if women saw you in a situation and immediately put you into
a certain category (e.g.. this guy's just a john in a strip joint, similarly
to how you categorize all hot women in clubs as being game players out to
waste your time). I think you need to keep an open mind -- I think by
having the negative thoughts that you've so elegantly expressed here, that
this comes through and this affects your results. Lately I've been thinking
that many of those 'I have a BF' objections I run into are Standard
Operating Procedure and not necessarily true. There's this one girl I have
become friends with who at one point told me that she was seeing someone
(without going into a long story, she was trying to make it clear that she
was unavailable to me -- I had already told her that she wasn't my type, but
that "maybe we could be friends" so I have been taking a different tack with
her). In any event, I invited her to a party and told her to bring her bf
along. Now all of a sudden he's not her bf, just that she's "seeing him."
Another flashback I had was that once a long time ago I had approached this
very hot waitress and she turned me down. I pursued it at the time and she
just said, 'look, I can't go out with everyone who asks me.' The point
being that the bf objection is probably bs most of the time. I think if you
came at it from a different direction, such as first getting her interested
before you make your interest known, she'll take care of the bf and it won't
be brought up. As long as you have in your mind that you live in "pig
central", and that you think that way, it will come across.
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Silentk:
(Commenting on: "Thought this looked interesting. And it seems cheap
enough.... www.ken-x.com.
My Comment: This looks really interesting, but they don't ship to Canada.
Someone please review this for us!"):
I say:
I bought this, took about 2 weeks to deliver. I like it a lot. I have had
my struggles with the SS stuff, making things more complicated for myself
than they truly are, and am now committed to approach, approach, and
approach, everywhere and everywhen, to get that to be my natural mode of
operation. This is a set of 5 CD's, one on the structure of the initial
approach, one on icebreakers, and so forth. Basically it outlines how to
get from not knowing her (or him, it is actually for either sex) to getting
the phone #, to setting up the date/meeting.
What I love is that this uses no deep level stuff, though I am sure the guy
knows NLP. He is a former telemarketer who stresses the importance of
having a brief and attention getting interaction, conveying sincerity and a
positive attitude, and then realizing that what you CAN control is whether
or not you approach, and whether or not you pitch for the next meeting, and
to realize that life is like a big Internet chat room (I like that frame,
very low stress), you can't take rejection personally.
The most useful tidbit I have found from him is to first make an innocuous
opener, and then an outrageous/humorous comment, to break their state. The
innocuous opener (as opposed to doing something complicated) helps get a
read on their mood, and can allow you to walk away without loss of face.
His biggest contribution (to me) is to realize confidence is very helpful,
but not necessary. The easy, innocent opener is just to get the ball in
play.
It also includes a 30 minute video of him doing the approaches in the field
which is very useful, as you can see how there is some initial resistance,
and how he uses light humor, a positive outlook and persistence (nothing
fancy) to get the # close.
Personally, I have not had much success to speak of, but the biggest thing I
am focusing on now is my state, and making that initial approach. I have
wasted a lot of time and energy on worrying about their response, or trying
to use the right pattern early on, as opposed to just being outgoing and
positive and not worrying about the result.
Definitely worth it for someone who, like myself, is intent on getting the
approach part handled.
Two notes: I love Sisonpyh's stuff, especially how he has thought through
his behavior and game plan -- I am still way too emotionally attached to the
result, and his stuff helps me stay within myself, and go through a
checklist (i.e. did I keep my power? Did I convey a cocky and humorous
attitude?) rather than care about her reaction.
I am damn near positive I saw Rick H at the Hard Rock Hotel in Vegas Sat
June 16. He was with a stunning, very sexual tall blonde, and had an
intensity that was hard to fake -- maybe I should have chased him down to
say hello, but I don't supplicate to anyone :-). Rick, gotta give you
props, it was an inspiring moment, I look forward to having that level of
energy and presence for myself. As someone still stubbing his toe, I think a
lot of masters forget how much energy they have now, and how that energy
they radiate, as much as their "skill" or "languaging" is getting them the
result.
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| cliff’s list advertisment section |
| Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are
just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links
to these emails. The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take
over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such
as proper mailing list software) for this list. If you were going to buy the product
anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going
at no extra cost to anyone. NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:
RECOMMENDED:
NOT REVIEWED YET:
|
| cliff’s free plugs section |
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all
recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back
here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up —
from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of
weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):
|
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