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"You know that one that just screams LUST and SEX"

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You know that one that just screams LUST and SEX
8/30/01 4:48:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Here is a link that can be of interest to older men who love to sarge young
chyx. I am not sure about the science behind their products, but I can tell
from my own experience that it works (I am 30 and look 20 now). Also all
testimonials seem to say that stuff makes people on average look 5-10 years


Tony B.:
Recently I have noticed that there is not much talk about improving
self-esteem and confidence by telling a person to accept their self image
and being confident in who they are.

It would seem as if all the information out there in this world will not
change the actual image that someone has of themselves. If a person has an
identity then they should not try to change that at any level except to
eliminate anything negative from that image or otherwise limiting that
holds a person back from further success.

Each and every one of us have a certain place on this earth or image of
what we would like to be.  We usually figure that out by the time we move
out on our own or shortly thereafter. The only difference is that after
years and years of social programming and all the other bullshit that comes
into our lives, we sometimes take that into account for deciding our
futures as well. We all know that there are some levels of societal
programming that are correct to be a human in today's society and with some
training we also learn to remove what is not necessary.

With all that aside, we now have the image of a pure human being sitting in
front of us. Are we going to tell this person that they continually need to
change to fit the needs of what someone says is right? I would surely hope
not. I would think that after all the self-limiting beliefs are removed and
the social programming is removed, it is also possible that this person has
done many good things for and with his/her peers. So, now we can also
consider this image of a pure human to also be one of a good person. And
after they realize that the level at which they were told all of these
negative things was pure bullshit then they can realize that they are good
people and that they have to change for NOBODY. Not only that: the
self-assured positive image is much more powerful to someone that is
looking to be seductive because they know that what they have to offer
these women is good and therefore she will think so as well.

Now, I am sure that there is a level at which concentrating on a person's
self -image will create a mystery for them to wonder about what their self
image is. Simply put, it is their current reality with the knowledge of
what they have and the knowledge to continue amongst this earth as if they
are identified in what they already know and not what they are unsure of.

For example, Joe Blow is a computer nerd that sits all day at a terminal
and takes phone calls from people that are asking questions on how to fix
problems with his computer.

Well, as long as Joe understands that he is a good person and that he lives
this world for what he wants to live it for and, to him, it doesn't matter
what others perceive him as because he knows he is a good person and that
is all that matters.  And since that is the case he also has confidence and
self esteem enough to understand these things.

Thinking a little more about this, I also came to the thought about the
fact that a person should be happy in their life for themselves and no
others, otherwise it starts that vicious cycle all over again. If you don't
like your job, then get the hell out and do something you like doing, that
is all there is to it. Make yourself happy so that you can accept your
reality with comfort and content and realize that you are the way you want
to be for you and nobody else.

And on a side note, even if you are unhappy with your current environment,
understand that you are not happy with it, accept it, and do something
about it, also realize that you are where you are because you chose that
route so you must have thought it best at the time you chose it, so be
happy about your decisions and how they have brought you this far.
Accepting your realities now will help you to make the future even better
for yourself and others cause you are a good person and you don't have to
prove that to anyone.


(Commenting on: Ross commenting on Sisonpyh 1. Acting as if he is walking
away and then
suddenly turning back around  and making the pitch. This makes it seem as if
his intent was NOT to hit on her, but he suddenly re-thought it and decided
to give her a chance! I think this is VERY well played, well done, I've done
this myself and don't doubt it is a great technique."):

Can we just call this the Columbo Question Technique?

(Commenting on: "Ross Dude, I have talked for the past two years about
noticing what they
are giving you and using it. It's my "get handles" on the smooth metal ball
theory. I'll explain here if enough people ask for it."):

Okay, I'll bite. Kindly explain the smooth metal ball theory.


Anon Ymous:
(Commenting on: "2) This site has a lot of interesting free stuff.;):

Haha.  I got curious about this site once but all it is is a paraphrased
copy of Tony's Layguide.  Absolute ripoff.  I sent notice to Tony that this
site was ripping off his material but apparently he wasn't able to get it
shut down.  Don't waste your time or money.


(Commenting on "Ross said: I have talked for the past two years about
noticing what they are
giving you and using it. It's my "get handles" on the smooth metal ball
theory. I'll explain here if enough people ask for it."):

Please do!  I'm getting a little tired of trying to LEAD the conversation
in certain directions (so that I can slide in a memorized pattern or
two).  My energy often says, "Honey, are you DONE talking about (boring
topic) so I can start talking about "This cool show I saw on the Discovery
Channel last night", and mention that I prefer bisexuals in a way that
doesn't make it seem out of context : )

(Commenting on "Steph said: "Do you believe in re-incarnation?"
her "Yes". ME "So do I.  And in this life, my body is about 9 years older
than yours. But our souls are THOUSANDS of years old.  Who knows, your soul
could be MILLIONS of years older than mine!" HER (smiling and loosening up
ME"Got a light?"")
Ross commented   Dude, you are the king of men. My hat is off to you!
Coming from you, this makes me smile : )  I never mind being told I'm
brilliant.  Truth is, I've been trying to find a reframe for the AGE issue
for a while, and it just came out of me spontaneously.  I'd like to ask you
and everyone else:  How do you reframe the ol' AGE THING??

My idea is cute, but face it, it won't always work.  Also, they don't all
have the maturity, the courage to confront you with, "You're too
old!"  OFTEN when I approach HBteenies they just get QUIET and TENSE right
off the bat.

I'm trying to think of a good reframe, a good neg to get around
this.  Think "A good salesman never has to overcome objections, because
he's already inoculated against them in advance." (See Persuasion
Engineering).  That would really be the best.  I guess you could always
bring up the idea of re-incarnation in the beginning of the
conversation...Gimme a couple days and I'll let you know! (school starts

Whenever I see a seventeen year-old, a little voice in my head starts
chanting, "Steph...This could be your LAST chance, last chance, last chance..."

Cliff's Comment:  I find it hard to believe you are having a problem with
being too old!  What should I say?  Try this though -- when they ask your
age, tell them straight out your age and add "but I love younger women."  I
have found this to be pretty effective many times as it reframes what they
were thinking.

Stephane: A question for Ross (and the group):  Ross, I often hear you
talking about black HB's.  I want to taste one, and never have.  Are there
any special opportunities/challenges when dealing with black women in your
opinion?  Cliff knows my fetish/curiosity for blacks : )

Cliff's Comment:  I've been teasing Clara at the Shed ever since that
night, Steph...

Stephane (Commenting on Ross:  "If I weren't old and gay..I'd go for're very cute".):

This is the best approach I've ever heard of, especially for 10's!  I mean,
how can it NOT work!  This is such a great ice-breaker!  It combines humor
with "I'm not hitting on you" with simplicity with genuine flattery with
intrigue....I'm getting up early tomorrow!

(Commenting on: Ross wrote "She laughed, gave me her name, but looked away
and wouldn't talk to me any further.  Just from the way she presented
herself...her nails, hair, screamed out "commodity". I said to
her as she kept walking, "Nice meeting you,  Tara....keep being a

Steph's comment: I was just in San Francisco and I couldn't believe how
SHALLOW these women really were.  SAD.  I'm trying to devise a
"shallowness-buster" pattern for these types.  Ross mentioned that part of
his definition of shallow is when they view unique perceptions and
out-of-the-box thinking as 'weird' and 'uncool'.  The very same day that I
read that definition, I had the following dialogue with an HBshallow:

ME (Talking about co-workers) "It wouldn't affect me.  See, I USED to get
upset and angry with those kind of people, but I no longer feel that other
people's acts are important.  At least not important enough that I'm
willing to put bad feelings in MY OWN BODY."

HER (Looking at me like I'm a FREAK!) "O...K..."(Taking a step back)

ME  It's funny you say that, because I was just having an interesting
conversation with a friend of mine.  He said that YOU KNOW that someone is
a SHALLOW PERSON when you express your UNIQUE AND SPECIAL point of view,
and instead of being curious and intrigued by it, they actually judge you
and think that you are weird and uncool!

HER (Completely boxed inside her own model of the world!  NOBODY wants to
be shallow!  She just pretended like it never happened, like she never
thought that at all) WOW!  That's SO INTERESTING...(pausing to integrate
new belief)...Can you say that again?

I explained it to her again, and she actually started looking at me like
I'm some kind of GENIUS!  She sat closer to me, became very expressive, and
ended up buying ME dinner.  During dinner, she started using the word
"WE".   This is when you know she's yours!  I stopped her at some point
(she was begging me to hypnotize her), leaned forward and said, "OK, but I
just want to make it clear, WE ARE JUST FRIENDS, OK?"

I ended up doing a full-blown induction on her in the park and put in a few
good metaphors to get her to really want me, and have created a
stalker.  She contacted me on MSN today.  I sent her a file called Training
Module 01.avi.  It's a porn clip of an HB sucking the cum out of a dick,
spitting it back on the dick, and lapping it back up and finally swallowing
it.  She said no problem.  And she ain't kidding, either.  And all this to
avoid being SHALLOW.  Can anyone help me build this new pattern?

I love this group, we took the word BRAGGING and called it a FIELD-REPORT! : )

Steph (Commenting on Dwayne: "I put my arm around the waitress
and said, "Dinner was great... and you are just BEAUTIFUL."
She was wowed and (having no food in her mouth) I managed a graceful close.
In both cases... no patterns, no trance phrases... just a simple compliment
given confidently."):

While I agree and have sometimes managed to pull off simple moves like
this, I get the impression that you look like Brad Pitt.  Because closing a
good-looking WAITRESS who gets complimented on her looks all day long...I
think you got lucky.  Either way, there is something to be said about a
calm, confident approach using good old-fashioned flattery.

Steph (Commenting on JOSEPH:
"JOSEPH   Are you sure about this? It seems to me like it might be more
dependant upon the health of the person, whether he eats fresh foods and
keeps in shape, smokes or not, etc. And I'm sure that there are some women
who just don't like the taste of
cum, anyhow or whichaway.  My point is that I think it would be unwise to
start advocating cum tasting as a test for determining soul mates among

This is my point of view exactly.  Want your girl to taste good?  Soak her
in a bubble bath, give her some fresh veggies and tell her to hit the
stairmaster.  All this stuff about 'chemical compatibility' may have some
merit, but to me it's sounds like another PHEROMONE commercial.  Want your
girl to enjoy your cum?  Try hypnosis!  It works for me, I get it to taste
sweet.  Plus, they are EXPECTING it to taste bad.  Definitely not
helpful.  Also, they don't have to GARGLE it, all they have to do is
swallow it down.  Like your typical fatass drinking buddy who can CHUG a
whole can of beer in 7 seconds flat, just open your throat!  Drinking
pineapple juice is supposed to change the taste of cum, according to Barb

Stephane (Commenting on ELVIRA: "I have been receiving Cliffy's emails for
ages now. May I say that what you wrote in your response to Rio is
exemplary!  As we say down here in
Australia, 'Good on ya, mate!'  He desperately needed to be put in his
place.  He really does have to remember that what you put out is what you
get back, right?"):

Thanks, and RIO didn't really have much to say, as I am sure he even agreed
with my comments himself (they are self-evident).  I don't want to
attack.  I'm also glad he clarified that he was responding to the "rules"
and not directly to Peta.  It's important to me that people understand that
women should be respected always, and if I feel this isn't the case, I try
to call them on it.  I have been guilty on occasion of thinking, talking,
and acting trash myself, and alot of the advice/comments that I post are
also aimed at myself!  How many times have I told someone to go for it, and
then realized that I had just chickened out mee-self!

(Commenting on "After all, the human body is just a pleasure vehicle for
our spirit to journey through life in!!!!!!!"):

I'm going to use that one on an HB real soon! Thanks )


What's your take on the new attraction technologies that are purely mind
based? For
instance, there's the venerable Mind Control Manual by Amargi
( which has been on the market for two
years. There is also the recent, but very popular Psychic Seduction series
by Plazo ( Other lesser
products like psychic command also flood the market. Do you think they could
supplement or replace the conventional dating tactics? Or is the old way best?

Cliff's Comment: I have Amargi's manual and I attended the Speed Life
Seminar Ross gave a year and a half ago where he taught some of his Psychic
Influence stuff.  I played around with this a little and I have no doubt it
could be very powerful.  Personally, however, I don't see any substitute
for going up to and talking with a live woman.  Yes, it could probably
supplement what you are doing but it has been my experience (I know others
have it easier, but not me) that great success with a woman is a somewhat
involved process that takes a bit of doing and developing some intimate
rapport is just something I have a hard time imagining without spending
some time actually in front of her and/or on the phone and having good
conversations.  Those who beg to differ are encouraged to share your
experiences and techniques.


Magic Juan:
Subject frustration vs. enemy
(Commenting on: Ross wrote "Someone who is frustrating you isn't your enemy
and ought not to be
treated as such...they are just someone who is frustrating you. As someone
who has both HAD and BEEN a real enemy, I can tell you there is a real

For you, would a person cross the line from frustrator to enemy if the
frustration were

   on purpose?
   directed at you personally?

If no, what is the line, for you, between being an enemy and just
being deliberately, characteristically, and personally mean?

Sorry if this is too far off topic.
I could use some insight on this right now.


(Commenting on: With respect, Hugh is living in a world where ALL people
are, are
commodities. The commodity HE offers to women is the shot at fame...getting
their career aspirations met.  Getting in Playboy can be a fast ticket to
TV shows/movies, acting career and some serious cash. THEY offer the
commodity of their beauty. EVERYTHING they do emphasizes THAT and ONLY that."):

NightLight9    You seem to really be hung up on Hugh Hefner's personal
life.  I don't think
it's fair to try to guess how he feels about women or himself.  The guy is
very good at getting beautiful women, and there's no reason to believe he
doesn't enjoy this in a healthy way.
Keep in mind that Playboy is a magazine full of pictures of beautiful women
naked.  They aren't having sex and in fact in most cases they aren't even in
sexually suggestive positions compared to a lot of other "non-pornographic"
I mean I could see an argument that the guys who came up with barely legal
or some donkey-show mag are pretty fucked up, but Playboy is even read by
plenty of women, because beautiful women are nice to look at and the articles
actually are pretty interesting.  As for what Playboy offers the models, it
offers cash, a chance to travel, some notoriety, a boost to the ego and an
opportunity to meet a lot of the
"in-crowd".  For a woman who wasn't brought up to fear nudity as most of the
prudes in the USofA (don't kid yourself about freedom of expression or
liberated thinking if you live in the US, we are one of the most
conservative and cloistered western cultures - Oops, hold on I think I just
saw someone breast feeding, I need to call the cops...  Ok I'm back...)
Most of the women in PB don't sleep with Hugh, in fact many barely meet him
(or so they say).  Sure he bangs some, he's got a lot of attractive
1) Money (I can see why women are attracted to this - it shows a level of
ability to succeed and it makes life easier, especially when you don't have
to earn it)
2) Access to famous/interesting people (social proof)
3) He's intelligent
4) He's successful
5) He comes from position of choice, not need
6) He is aggressive
7) He is experienced
8) He's surrounded by hot chicks (more social proof)

(Commenting on:  "MTL_PUA:  You MUST find a level of comfort with YOURSELF,
and stick with that. Once you realize that you are NOT a moron, or a loser,
you START incorporating
PU tactics into your style, and MAKE IT BECOME YOU. You must BELIEVE in what
you are saying, because if you can't get it past yourself, you can't get it
past other people."):

NightLight9   One thing people always gloss over is that if you are a moron
and loser,
you need to work on that before you are likely to become a PUA.  Working
through Ross's material will often help with that and in fact that may be
among the
biggest value it offers.

(Commenting on: "I am sure that Ross's students don't just memorize lines
and go pattern
the shit out of women. That would NOT work."):

NightLight9     Actually some do, and I've even seen it work, but that
isn't art, isn't fun,
and only works with really suggestible chicks in the right
circumstances.  Kind of like buy drinks for a bar slut who thinks you are
kind of attractive.

(Commenting on: "The point here is that people who do well with women have
a shitload of
self-confidence, or find ways to build self-confidence if they don't have
any. Mystery's newbie mission is perfect for this. Coupled with
self-confidence, having a conceptual character towards learning definitely
helps. If you get the CONCEPT, you can go and apply the theory in your own

NightLight9  Good stuff here. I can't remember who I used to be very well,
but I am
certainly a different person.  Better in almost every respect, but I still
have a long way to go...

(Commenting on: "This also works for questions to her (this is on;» just
pickup on her last response. Nice thing about tangent convos is that you
cover a lot of ground in little time. You keep talking (giving her chances
to stick her opinions in), and you are bound to hit on a topic you can both
relate to. I used some of this last Friday night, and I went from her
vacation in Italy to shopping in Italy to the shoes she bought in Italy to
pumps with 8 inch heels and how she uses them in bed because it makes her
feel like a slut. The girl was completely SURPRISED the I was able to pull
that much info out of her in such a short time."):

NightLight9  Your style and experiences are very close to mine.  This
works.  It is also
useful to randomly guess at stuff too, but ask about it.  There are two
things you leave out of the equation (of this post, not your game, I'm sure):
1) Rapport, you need to master rapport - All the best "natural" PUA's I know
have been in sales at one time, because rapport works on
everyone...Customers, chicks, your boss, my boss...
2) Never be judgmental.  If she had gotten the sense that you might judge
her, she never would have told you about the high heels.  Never look
surprised and avoid talking about other people negatively unless you feel
you can gain substantial rapport or create a positive direction away from
some negative behavior.  e.g. She looks at someone talking about their church
picnic and sighs so you say "Boy, I just can't relate to some people.  I
mean, I'm sure they're nice people, but I need excitement and challenge in my
life.  Do you know what I mean?"  (Note that excitement and challenge have no
real meaning, but they are universally seen as good things.)
She says "Yeah me too"  (now you can agree and pattern or challenge her

(Commenting on "Exactly the way I think. Everyone here seems to have a
varied definition
of being ALPHA. You hear a lot of these comments being passed around on ASF
(especially). Be Alpha, man. Act like an Alpha. Walk like an Alpha. Eat like
an Alpha. Fuck like an Alpha. WTF is happening here?"):

NightLight9   I don't know but it starts to sound like Tyler Durden (fight
club), so that
can't be so bad  : )

(Commenting on Ronnie:  "Personally, I can't stand leader types.  I know a
lot of people get involved in activities just so they can appear to be a
leader solely to impress women, but it does not always work.   Comments?"):

NightLight9    I'm not sure I follow (no pun intended).  What do you
like?  Guys who go
around asking what they should do?  I mean, there's a difference between
trying to be leader and just being yourself who happens to be a leader.  One
of those two concepts is generally attractive (even if not to you)

(Commenting on: "2. To all SS folk, this is a quote from a new Toyota Camry
ad "The Camry thrills right to the core of your inner child."  Is there a
"Camry" pattern in the works by the folks on Madison avenue?  SS and
advertising have a common thread..."):

NightLight9    NLP and advertising are joined at the hips.  I often find
that much of the
advertising actually is really poor NLP.  Some is really good, though.  "Think
Different" is great phonetic ambiguity (and an interrupt).  On the radio
around here, there are a lot of ads that are blatant in their sexual
innuendo, even though they are selling products that have nothing to do
with sex or women.

(Commenting on Halbster:  "This brings me to my current dilemma. Recently,
I broke up with a
long-time GF (EK) who I will probably want to go back to if and when I am
ready to settle down and make a life commitment."):

NightLight9     I'll bet you $500 bucks that never happens.  Just a random
prediction based
on the mind's nature when you are in the immediate post break-up state.

(Commenting on: "1) How do I go about setting up a shared understanding of
our relationship

NightLight9    I know this is a seduction list, but how about the truth :
)  First keep
things on friendly level, but keep doing things together.  Don't pattern
lots of sexual accelerators and particularly emotional ones.  If she likes
you, it will be obvious and the kiss will follow.  Kiss her once (this
demonstrates and commits that you are both attracted to each other, which is
important, but also isn't a commitment to anything further).  Turn to her and
look her in the eyes (the way you would lead into a kiss).  Pause and
reflect, then say "I have to be very honest with you.  I'm not looking for a
relationship right now." The amount of physical contact you have with her
will make her more or less honest in her response (the less => the most
logical reaction).  If she says "That's OK, me neither" excitedly, go to
town : )  If she says "Oh" or expresses reservations in anyway, eject.  Not
worth it.


1. Sometimes before doing any attempted pick ups, I have a hard time
getting into a positive, playful, confident and direct frame of mind.  I
have tried to visualize success, but I can only get the state to last a
minute.  Any suggestions on feeling good before you go chick fishing?

2. I like going to bookstores and libraries when sarging.  The problem I
have is that I am somewhat inhibited and don't like carrying on a
conversation with a woman when there are people around reading/studying.  I
don't want them disturbed or  them listening in.  Is it a matter of just
talking in a lower voice or should I try to get the target to move so I can
do handwriting analysis/palm reading in a more private setting? I remember
once being at a Barnes and Noble and this guy was hitting on this woman and
I could hear him talking and I was listening in almost.  Finally he had her
move but the fact that it took so long to do so made his PU seem cumbersome.


(Commenting on "New Links to be explored
9) How to meet women - a guide to relationships.  Looks
like a free online book.;):

Here is my take on this one..for one .. if this were to be called a free
online book .. I'd rather call it a leaflet... more like a flyer and that
too is nothing compared to stuff like your list.
Onto the pages...First chapter... description of state by the author
(Remember the party... ) but even then ... most of the stuff which he says
about women's behaviours can be found on shit like MSN love notes ...
overall the only useful part is the lines on numbers game ... though a
warning ... I had done shit like this earlier ... and the final 20% success
rate which they mention is improbable with these methods ...
Chapter two ...the intro line on personal style is very unclear about what
to do ... in fact, this reminds me of the intro to Ross's old book (How to
get the Woman You Desire Into Bed which you can see at in which he said that books
tell you what you should do in seduction but not how...this book especially
up till now is pathetic about the how ... very little whys only some minor
whats ... Only good line is in this chapter ... which incidentally reminds
me of Svengali's challenge ( of saying "Hi"
to ten women a day. But the part on fear of rejection is bad ... newbies
(like me) would gain more from Mystery's posts on the AWARE state, etc....
and also no explanation on why being nice is bad ..
Chapter three is ok on the whole ... but left me with a kind of incomplete
feeling as it has vague pointers at best.  Chapter Four is absolute shit on
where to meet women ... nothing much to read in this ... hasn't taken into
account issues like bitch shields in clubs, etc. ... or points like
Stephane(methinks) made long back in this list like women are not expected
to being picked up when at the mall ... no explanation over why one should
go to a specific place...  Chapter five is the best so far ... it mentions
body language» but nothing on what to look for ... is spot on when
commenting about pickup lines .. but pathetic openers .. heck ...I've tried
them earlier and I've crashed big time ... (that was before this list and
ASF) ... and I would also point out the section on complimenting which
methinks is wrong ... I would more believe in Mystery style compliments
more on the personality if at all, and not on the anatomy.
Chapter six on the coffee date idea has been given albeit very sketchily
... there is nothing given on how to set it up and handle any rejection or
flakiness and well about chapter 7, don't even bother reading it ... on the
whole a disappointing link ... Sisonpyh's site is much better as also his
check the link below ..


If there are any International Playboys out there (Rick, Sis, Ross, etc.) I
could use some guidance. I'm going to be spending the next 4 months living
in London, and I'm wondering if there are any SS/PUA strategies that I
should keep in mind. I hear that some foreign chicks dig American guys.  Is
there any way that I can play up this angle and use it to my benefit? Any
help would be appreciated.

On a different topic, I've noticed that lately I've encountered a lot of
bitch shields while sarging at malls. It seems that they're almost like
"clubs light" in the sense that chicks are more defensive and they think
that if you're talking to them you're automatically hitting on them. Has
anyone else experienced this?

I've done my fair share of sarging at malls and I've had success mostly
with sales girls that are working, girls in the food court, and if you're
lucky you'll find a girl sitting on bench that is fun to mess with. But
while approaching girls in department stores, clothing stores, and anytime
they're shopping I've pretty much just encountered coldness. Any advice for
handling this?

Like the other day, I saw that a girl had at a tattoo on her back and I
asked her if she designed it, she said "no" and gave me a look that said
"why the fuck are you talking to me, can't you see that I'm busy?" Maybe RJ
would have been able to handle this, but my only thoughts were "Exit, Stage


(From private email: Cliff: "It sounds like you are doing quite a few same
night closings -- tell me

I try. It is VERY hard in this city (especially with the stuck-up crowd),
and sometimes I revert back to my shy-AFC days, but in general, I just keep
talking until they:
1) Are fed up of me, at which point I eject and approach the next
2) They are turned on by me and I close

On the other side, I don't believe that you can get any woman anywhere EVEN
using FMAC and SS combined, so I play the numbers game. The more I talk and
approach, the more I have a chance of closing. It's basically little, steady
dosage of MTL-PUA a little at a time, until some chick says "WAIT! Where are
you going? We just met."  This is a clear IOI, and I take it from there.
Also, I initiate sex talk (not necessarily heavy; but nevertheless) ASAP.
If she can't talk about sex in an open manner, what are the chances of you
getting a ONS from her? Slim to none. Open with anything (have a light?
Elvis script; you look like someone I know/want to know; whatever pops into
your mind) and follow up with some basic info/values/flattery if she is between
6-8. I bust their balls with sarcastic remarks and leave, move on, bust
balls, leave, move on until I have 5 approaches that showed good convo. Then
I go back and do my rounds. Works well at spots like Thursday's and Winnies &
Newtown (these are very popular bar restaurants in Montreal), less at
clubs. On the second round, I go into talkative mode, and
talk and talk and talk (for about 10-15 minutes), and move on. Connection
established. By then, I typically have a good feel for what is happening and
who is interested.

It is worth to mention that I look for women between 20-30, so this does not
always work, but I don't care.  I just talk, bust balls in a flirty manner
HER: YOU ARE SOOOO BAD !!! (in response to a dirty joke or whatever) ME: I
know. You like bad boyz don't you? Yeah, you look like a pretty bad gurl
yourself  HER: WHY DO YOU SAY THAT? ME: you just have that look in your
eyes, you know that one that just screams LUST and SEX ~LOL~), and close
whenever I get a chance.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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