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"I’m stupid and ugly but…but…but SOMEBODY HAS TO LOVE ME!"

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I’m stupid and ugly but…but…but SOMEBODY HAS TO LOVE ME!
9/3/01 1:30:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Lately, a combination of watching guys interact with women, reflecting on
my own path of learning and success, and talking to some great pick up
artists has let me to a few key realizations...

I think that part of true wisdom is to make things as simple as possible
without oversimplifying and losing the message. So I want to share a
concept that I've been thinking about a lot lately (and working on with
myself) that I hope will help.

I keep hearing from guys who say "I walked up to this woman and used
technique X, but IT DIDN'T WORK."

They seem all frustrated because they thought that all they had to do was
use a certain set of words, or use a particular tonality, etc. and the
chick was supposed to fall over backwards with her legs in the air.

If only it was that simple... we'd all be getting laid like Gene Simmons.

What I've been noticing lately is a key distinction.  Some men have body
language» that INSTANTLY makes women feel uncomfortable. And some guys have
body language» that causes women to feel like "Hey, this is a cool guy that
I want to talk to."

The funny part is that in my experience it's not only about good looks. I
know a lot of guys that aren't what you'd think of as "Model Handsome" but
they are charming as hell when it comes to meeting women. I know several
guys that blow me away when it comes to making women feel comfortable and
laugh when first meeting them. And most of these guys are really "regular"

Now, one of my assumptions is that a good portion of the women you run into
in the world will either have a husband or a boyfriend, be in a bad mood
and not interested, be lesbians ("Hey Beavith, lethbians are kool") or for
whatever reason just not receptive to meeting a guy in the moment.

So first you have to realize that some women are going to be colder than a
McFlurry no matter what you do... but...

So here's a test to use

If more than 50% of the women that you start conversations with give you
cold, uncomfortable vibes, then you probably need to change yourself and
your body language» before you can expect anything else to work for you.

If you don't have a demeanor and style that makes receptive women naturally
feel cool and calm around you, then you're going to have a damn hard time
with a kiss close.

By the way, I want to mention another situation that I hear often... a guy
will email and say "Well, I do really well using palmistry and handwriting
analysis, but women just seem to want to be friends after this. What do I
do to take it to the next level?"

I can appreciate this situation, big time.

I used to use handwriting and palmistry all the time, but I found that this
was setting up a relationship that usually caused the woman to see me as a
friend/therapist/life consultant/girly-man and not a potential sex partner.
Amen anyone?

See, if you have the kinds of behaviors that lead to women feeling a little
uncomfortable when they first meet you, but then you start talking
palmistry and handwriting analysis, I think that women kind of say "Well,
OK... this guy is a little freaky, but he's a psychic reader, and all of
them are freaky. I'll listen to what he has to say... this will make a
great story for my girlfriends..." etc.

I don't think that internally they're saying "Oohhh, at first I felt a
little uncomfortable, but now that I realize this guy is a fortune teller
I'm getting turned on... maybe he'd be good in bed!"

By the way, I'm not saying that handwriting analysis and palmistry are
useless, I'm just saying that if you don't have body language» that is
working for you, then your palmistry and handwriting aren't going to make
up for it. Make sense?

So the big question is "What the hell kind of body language» are you talking
about? How do I do it?"

Here are my ideas

1) Slow down. Try slowing every single movement down to half speed. Breath
slower, move slower, walk slower, blink slower, use slower gestures. Slow
is suspenseful. It creates a kind of positive tension.

2) Learn how to appear confident in any situation. One of the most
important things I've ever learned is that if you persist and seem like
none of her games, resistance, etc. is affecting you, she'll often give in
and start acting different. Too many guys I know throw in the towel and act
beaten before the game even begins. Or even worse, they get upset and act
like children because they don't get their way. My frame is kind of like
"Look, you know that I'm funny and interesting, so quit the games. But if
you must play hard to get for a few minutes, so be it. I'll let you be
difficult because I know that you really want me."

3) Don't give away your power. Make sure you act as if YOU are the one with
all the power in the situation, and nothing she does will affect you in any
negative way.

4) Learn how to be funny in different situations. I've mentioned that I
think it's important to study comedy... if you study and practice, you can
become funnier. But it's not going to happen on its own. You have to
actually work on it and do something. Practice using juxtaposition,
exaggeration, getting into character, etc. It will pay off huge in the long

5) Find some guys who are good with women, and go watch what they do! I
realize that I'm repeating myself a bit here, but this is soooo important.
Trying to learn body language» from words is like trying to learn the
English language without being able to hear. It's a lot easier to learn
first hand.

6) Watch some movies and model the characters. Watch Clark Gable in Gone
With The Wind, Johnny Depp in Don Juan DeMarco, Pierce Brosnan in The
Thomas Crowne Affair, Mickey Rourke in 9 1/2 weeks, any James Bond movie,
etc. These guys all act cool, calm, and natural when they are around women.
They're great to model.

7) Improve your posture. Sit and stand up straight... don't slump! There's
a great book called "The Alexander Technique" by Michael Gelb... this book
has several pictures of what he calls "Poise." Go look at a copy and check
out how "Poised" people hold themselves.

8) Get rid of nervous ticks and gestures. Mentally rehearse situations that
make you VERY uncomfortable and practice being unaffected by them. Imagine
the most awkward situation you can possibly think of, and then practice how
you'd respond. Cultivate a pause before every reaction...

9) When I imagine the image of cool, laid back behavior, I always imagine a
surfer. He's standing on the beach with some babes around him saying
"Heeeeey, what's up?" It's not a coincidence that I've known several
surfers that were all Mack Daddys with women. Every one of them has this
ability to just roll up to a woman in just about any situation and say
"What's up?" in a way that makes the woman feel comfortable and interested.

Most importantly, if you find that women always or usually feel
uncomfortable when you first meet them, START ACTING DIFFERENT UNTIL YOU

Do ANYTHING different. Just change your behavior!

Try a new hairstyle, dress different, wear some glasses, get rid of your
glasses, put on a turban, I don't care! Just start acting different until
you find what works. Hell, maybe your calling is to be a surfer. Who knows.

I have to mention one last thing. While I don't usually think it's the best
idea to have women help you out with women, I do think it's useful to have
some women help you choose clothing, hairstyles, etc. Chicks know what's up
when it comes to fashion. Just don't let them talk you into anything that
is so trendy that it will be out of style by next month. Just say "I want
to choose some clothes that are flattering for my body, modern enough to be
cool, but are also classic styles that won't be outdated in six months. Can
you help me out?" Ask that of any chick with fashion sense and she'll know
exactly what to do with you.


This is from a friend of mine who is a Russian national, in his mid 50's
and married to a woman who is 22. He spent about twenty years of his
life in the U.S.A. and now resides in St. Petersburg, Russia where he
was born. He works as a translator. I had asked him about translating
some Speed Seduction» phrases into Russian, but after looking at a few of
them he said that the language barriers prevent an accurate translation
without sounding like a complete doufus to a Russian woman. Furthermore,
it should be noted that if you're an AFC going over to Russia looking
for a girlfriend/wife/whatever that you could get seriously burned. It
probably is safe to say one can get "laid" easier by the local slutty
DNA repositories that hangout in the nightclubs, but if you are looking
for a LTR of some sorts with a Russian HB and SHB, these woman can be
just as calculating as their American counter-part. He does recommend
the websites. Personally, I would be cautious of the websites unless you
know who you are dealing with, and the fact that these women who are on
these sites just simply want to get the fuck out of Russia, so you won't
be able to tell if they really like you or just the fact that you are
getting them to another and better world. The point is, just because
you're an American flying over to Russia, don't expect a reception like
the Beatles experienced when they landed at Kennedy Airport  in New
York  in '64. Here is the rest of the correspondence I had with him:
ME The bottom line here is that there's really no place on Earth where
one can go and meet a  stunning beauty without having to  deal with
their attitudes. Although I heard that Estonia and Latvia have women
eager to meet men, but the situation and their attitudes may be the
same as with Russian Woman. Not sure.

HIM Of course, you realize this.  One more thing you've got to
realize.  You won't like it, yet it is the truth.  In Russia you will find
very few women who have no
agenda and just genuinely want to have a good time with a new man.  Basically,
there are two large groups
1) Those who want to find a husband (foreigners are
rated high - Americans)
2) Those who are looking for immediate material rewards.  Those who do
not fall into one of these groups are few and far between.  Russian
people are busy making a living, which includes women and girls, and
just straight fun most of them think they can not afford.

I think that before you come to Russia you should visit one of those Web
sites (there are hundreds) where people make contacts with the opposite
sex, place
your photo on it.  You should get a lot of answers from Russian women, also
photos.  Tell those you like that you are planning to visit St. Pete in the
future and they will be waiting for you here with their arms open.

ME The one way I can protect myself I think, is by being honest. If
spoken at the right moment in a conversation, letting a woman know that you
know the
"score" is very powerful, and earns one their respect.  So, I would like
to know how to say this in Russian. Even in America, letting a woman know where
you stand is a good thing.

HIM You may be right here, still it is better to begin at a safe
distance.  Internet sites providing you with all the distance and, at
the same time, closeness you may want.

ME What we should do, if it's not too much imposition when we get
together is for you and your wife to give me a crash course in the Russian
with regards to how me (an American) should go about approaching
Russian Women. I think it would be best for both your input  -- since your
wife is the age of
the type of woman I would be looking to meet.

HIM We will talk about it when we meet.  It sounds a bit like a crash
course in nuclear physics, but we will see what can be done.


(Commenting on "FMAC")
What is this?

Cliff's Comment: FMAC (Find Meet Attract Close)


Eric H.:
IMHO, makeover items (which is all that this is in essence) really have
no business on this list even if they supposedly make a 30 year old look
20. I mean, why does it matter if you're 30 and you look 30? I know 18
year old chycks who will only date guys 30+ and for them to think you're
30, you're gonna have to look 30 in the first place. I understand all
the other ads (even the "enlarge your penis" ones) and I think that
*this* type of ad is for those who would also be interested in plastic
surgery and face lifts...I should hope that the members of this list are
beyond that (barring that they haven't been horribly scarred in a fire or
what-have-you, in which case this cream isn't gonna help) type of vanity
because if we can't accept ourselves for who we are then we're never
gonna be happy with who we've become.

Cliff's Comments:  My policy for posting on the list is pretty liberal --
if it interests me, I might post it!  I think looks are a very valid topic
for my list.  I think guys focus too much on looks but I can tell you that
I personally have spent a lot of time, money and effort improving my own
looks and it does make you feel better.  I don't want to see it get into a
long discussion about this because I have already talked about some really
good looking guys who couldn't get a second date if their life depended on
it, and guys like my friend David who are nothing to look at but who can
bag any available woman.


(Commenting on: "Stephane   OK, I tested out the "You are SOO cute!  Too
bad I'm gay cause otherwise I would totally go for you!" line.  This line
is pure genius, as I said before, and it really gets a good response.  I
LOVE this line!!!")"

Thank you.  I use it sparingly, under certain circumstances ONLY.

I use it when the female(s) is/are MUCH younger than I am. I'm 42, and it's
a scary thing to most women 25 and under to have a man my age approach them
"seriously". So I don't.....

I use it also when I spot someone who looks like she gets hit on all the
time and looks a bit guarded. It's designed to take down a shield.

(Commenting on: "Guys, help me to hone my negging skills.  Any and all
comments would be much appreciated!"):

I also thought of using this line for the physical close IF I didn't use it
to pick her up...just as she's giving me the "eye-scan" and all that other
stuff...looking like she wants the say to her, "You know, if I
weren't totally gay...I'd go for you..." and then say..."hallelujah...I'm
cured!"...move in...and kiss...

(Commenting on: "MARK   What I do that helps is called Maintenance of a
Positive Attitude
through the Assumption of a Negative Result. I read this is a book called
"Sales through Intimidation" or something like that. This means I go into a
situation knowing that odds are that I will not succeed and get rejected
more often that I succeed. This way I already know the worst case scenario
and have already felt its emotional sting. Think of it this way if you
knew that a woman you were going to approach was going to reject you for
certain, would you care what you said to her or how you came across?  This
attitude allows you to go all out and say and do whatever you need to in
order to succeed. It takes away your fear of losing them before you have
them and allows you to be at your best right away."):

Winning Through Intimidation...a classic from the 70's! By Robert J.
Ringer.  Great book!  I LOVE IT!

(Commenting on: "We are not that powerful and people can handle our
advances. If you fuck up you can always back pedal."):

Careful here. CONTEXT is everything. I have found, with women substantially
younger than I am, who are not USED to older guys, I can't be overwhelming
and still get somewhere UNLESS I am overwhelming in a place where I can
physically close the deal!  If I, for example, am overwhelming over the
phone (especially if they already have a BF), it can scare the crap out of
them because they feel totally out of control.

If I make them feel totally out of control in a location where I can also
as soon as possible close the deal physically, that's a different story!

(Commenting on: "On another point on the topic of looks
I have been experimenting with some carbo loading to see what effect it
would have on my appearance. Last week I went through a spell where I would
space my meals about 3 hours apart. In addition to that I also deliberately
under cooked my rice a little bit to see the effects. The result was leanness
all over my body and face with a greater chiseled look. Now in my gym works
one of the hottest babes you have ever seen. She is a dead ringer for Janine
the porn star."):

Ha ha. Guess what, Mark? I know you ALREADY think I am the King, but there
is a dead ringer for super-porn star, Jasmine St. Clair who works out in my
gym...because...SHE IS JASMINE ST. CLAIR, the porn star!  I always say to
her, "Good morning, Miss St. Clair" like I am saying hi to my 3rd grade
English teacher!

(Commenting on: "Now, there are some very good manuals, like those
written by Mr. DeAngelo (Double Your Dating»), Magnetic
Attraction, Speed Seduction» and the really good "How
to Make Anyone Fall In love with You" (Leill Lowndes)."):

I think Sis has some VERY good stuff, some of which would work for me, some
not.  I don't know about Magnetic you have a website?

Leill? I've seen her around the self-improvement circuit...chick looks like
she's been to Joan River's plastic surgeon on a VERY bad day. Is her stuff
really that good?

(Commenting on: "Dwayne (
I've noticed that when talking to a HB if I visualize the two of us making
love and "project" that into her eyes as we talk, she gets turned on
regardless of what we're talking about."):

Ok. Try it with the following elements added in:
1. Keep your state neutral, unexcited and clean.

2 Use vague language and talk about what it is like when you 'trust what
your own need is telling you" and "imagine the power of exploring something

3. Combine the clean state and vague language with powerful visualizations
of the two of you gittin' it on!

What happens is the clean state keeps you from overwhelming and FRYING her
circuits.  The vague language sets up a need to resolve the vagueness...if
you are in good rapport, the images you are having in your mind will be in
HER mind, as she seeks to resolve the vagueness of what you say.

Get it?  Add in the master keys of a neutral state and vague language!


Recently, I posted asking for advice about dating my friend's sister.  Well,
shortly after I posted, I stopped and realized it was time for me to stop
thinking of her as a client, or as my friend's sister.  I started to think of
her as a woman.  I started to see her as the unique and wonderful person that
she is with certain wants, needs, desires, hopes, fears, dreams, goals, and
passions that need to be shared.  I thought I'll do what I always do and I'll
do it with confidence, honesty, and congruity the way I always do it.  I'll
give her wonderful experiences and make sure that I leave her feeling better
off.  With a simple shift in my thinking things really started to flow for
both of us.
Then, I remembered being 15 in high school, and seeing the older superbabe
sister who would have been the ultimate stud success for me or any of my
friends at that time.  Of course she didn't notice any of us kids.  She was
too busy going to concerts where she'd always wind up with invites to meet
the rock stars.  I realized that at one time I had her on a pedestal.
Now, I know her and she is just human, but she is far more interesting and
fun than a still life on a pedestal.
I also realized something else.  Many of the guys out there who are learning
these skills might be doing a similar practice.  They might look at someone
and think of her as the "dancer", "cheerleader", "model", "actress",
"aerobics instructor", "bar tender", "hooters girl", "Blonde", "redhead",
"brunette", "black woman", "asian", "latino" etc.
THEY ARE ALL JUST WOMEN!!!  And, when you see the woman they are you can
discover their real beauty.

Ironically, after all of this, I think I'm starting to think more and more
about going back to EK my former GF.


Boris:  I've been studying SS and other seduction techniques for about a
year and a half and I still haven't had any results. I've been to one of
Ross's seminars, one of Major Mark's and have spent thousands of dollars on
seduction material and I still have not yet gotten laid. It's been about a
year now and I am still a virgin in my early 20's.

It frustrates me because it seems like everyone around me is getting laid
except me, and I'm well trained. These days, when others post success
stories they make me very jealous.

I do go out and practice quite often, but it's hard to keep motivated when
I'm not getting results. I have not yet figured out how to not worry about
the outcome and just have fun. Seduction to me always seems like work, like
a task. I've heard time and again, "don't worry about results, just have
fun." When I hear that I think to myself, "obviously, if I COULD just have
fun, I wouldn't have any problems."

Cliff's Comments:  After all the stuff I have read, all the seminars I have
been to, everything I have seen, I haven't been able to get Claude's
tactics out of my mind (see the last few emails I sent out, if you didn't
read that).  And he really epitomized just having fun.  I think that unless
you meet and hang around with someone like that, it is hard for you to
really imagine what he is like, let alone imitate it.  Sisonpyh gave good
advice to go out and find guys who are successful and ask them for their
help.  I think this is probably the best thing I can suggest to you.  It is
a very difficult thing to do -- you have to let go of your outcome in order
to obtain it.  I am convinced that it is through other guys that your
success will come.


BRAGGING (er, ah...field report!)
There's are some days where you feel you can do no wrong.  Yesterday was
one of those days.  It was my last day of stage (work-training-program) and
since I don't shit where I eat, I decided this was the perfect day to sarge
everyone in the building who happened to have breasts.  Since I'm
concentrating on NEGS, I decided to test to see how far I could go without
being slapped.  PRETTY FUCKING FAR!  This 'bratty little sister' frame is
the single best piece I've learned in the world of seduction.  I didn't set
out to close any deals however.  I just wanted to practice.  But let's get
to the meat of this field report (i.e. bragging).

I was SUPPOSED to go sarging last night.  Then my buddy (and my ride) got a
little too drunk to drive downtown, and besides, he was already hooked up
at this point.  He shows up at my house with this chick that he picked up
from a bar, with a case of beer and told me that her FRIEND might be
showing up a little later.

So 4 beers later the 'friend' shows up.  Why did she bother to show
up?  She did not know who I was.  Turns out my buddy told her that I was
into SEDUCTION, and she was curious!  So she came over to make me look
stupid, to put me in my place.

So picture we are, two guys and two girls, everyone goes quiet
because they want to SEE ME IN ACTION, they want me to demonstrate my
POWERS!  Talk about pressure!  I certainly don't think of myself as a
'master of Speed Seduction»'!  Had I tried running PATTERNS on this girl,
everyone would have started LAUGHING.  This is why NEGS are so important.

So right away I cut into this girl, before she even sat down I said, "So
who are you? Why are you here?  What do you want?  What are you gonna do to
me?!?"  So right off the bat I tore up her 'expectational script', her idea
of what I was going to do.  She was expecting Don Juan.  I gave her Howard

So she sits down, and I'm just hammering away at the poor girl (with a
smile in my eye, of course) and everyone is just loving it. "Why would I
'seduce' you? Are you some kind of bisexual, sperm-loving Goddess or
something?"  Once I completely broke her model of what to expect, THEN I
started using blowjob patterns and sexual accelerators on her, but I framed
them like this

I said "So you're probably expecting me to say something like (insert BJ
pattern here!)."  After I ran it she pretended like it was nothing, like it
didn't affect her.  So I changed the subject, and only paid attention to my
friend and his chick.  I stopped all communication toward the poor girl,
and she must have assumed I gave up, because 5 minutes later she whispered
into my ear, "That chocolate thing you said earlier really turned me
on."  To that I replied, "I wasn't talking about chocolate, sweety." and
winked.  She said, "I'm you have a sweater I can borrow?"  I
grabbed her by the hand and led her to my room!

I gave her the sweater, and as soon as her little pretty head popped
through the neckhole, I 'surprise kissed' her.

So everything's going great, and my friend and his girl are probably long
gone at this point, and I don't really care anyway!  This is where the TRUE
CHALLENGE comes in  I couldn't get her pants off, she started 'objecting',
i.e. PLEASE CONVINCE ME I'M NOT A SLUT. (This is a new one! PCMINAS, please
convince me I'm not a slut)

This girl must have studied the friggin' META MODEL or had Gerry Spence as
a father.  She is an honour-role university student and VERY
smart.  Fortunately, I have ten years of NLP under my belt because
INTELLIGENCE-WISE, this girl absolutely DWARFS ME.  VERY high IQ, probably
genius-level.  But when it comes to mind-fucking, NLPers come out on top!
Boy, could she ask questions!  And she wouldn't let me in unless my answers
SHINED.  She was no 'low self-esteemer', I tell you!  Questions like, 'So
is this what you do to all your girls?' are easy because you just say, 'I
don't ALWAYS do ANYTHING.  MY life isn't a broken record,
YOURS?'  Right?

But this is where she almost nailed me.

"Steph, don't fuck with me, because I KNOW that you sleep with alot of
girls.  So why do you want to sleep WITH ME?"

OOOOUUUUCH! (If anyone has a clever answer/pattern for this, please comment!)

Now, when someone asks me a deep question like this, and I don't know what
to say, I stall for time usually by pretending to be EMBARRASED, by
pretending to be ashamed about my 'answer'.  Because when you're
embarrassed, not only do women find this CUTE, but they try to PRY IT OUT
OF YOU.  So she's gone from 'attacking me' (for lack of a better term) to
PLEADING and BEGGING.  Now I have at least a good minute or two to FIND AN
ANSWER) (Hmmm...what's unique about this girl that she would be flattered
to hear?...Hmmmm...)

So I said, "Well, you're gonna think this is totally wierd, but you have a
masculinity about you that is very attractive (pattern interrupt!).
HER What? (confused)
ME SEE, I knew you wouldn't understand
HER Please, continue...
ME Well, see, women are YIN energy and men are YANG energy. Now, most women
have too much YIN, and not enough YANG.  YOU, on the other hand, have a
tremendous amount of have alot of YIN because you're very
feminine, and pretty, and smell good, and you have good manners. Now,
that's a description of MOST women. But they're missing YANG energy,
because they hesitate to ask for what they want in life, they act helpless,
they act dumb, and you know what I'm talking about, right?
HER Oh yeah!
ME But YOU have a TREMENDOUS amount of yang, because you're not afraid to
ask for what you want out of life, you GO FOR IT (HA!), you don't run away
screaming from the little household spiders of life (earlier, she saw a
spider and grabbed it with a kleenex and flushed it). You're not only very
intelligent, but eye contact)
HER Good...answer...(kisses me passionately)

It worked!  Those panties FLEW off! )

(A separate comment by Stephane):
I seem to have made a mistake, by saying that I've been doing alot of NEGS.
I just did a search on ASF for the word 'neg' and I realise that I've been
doing alot more than just negs.  I thought negs were the Bratty little
Sister frame.

Those of you who have read Provocative Therapy by Frank Farelly know
EXACTLY what I have been doing.  It's not exactly negs, but it includes
them.  Frank Farelly is a shrink who realized that being warm and genuine
and nice was not only dishonest, but just wasn't working in general to help
his patients.  He decided that his patients just needed a good kick in the
ass, because they are not "Broken", they are just stupid.

He blantantly insults his clients, teases the shit out of them, etc. to get
a rise out of them.  Basically what he does is he tells them that there's
no hope for them, because they are just too helpless, and stupid, and
ugly.  But by doing this, they set out to prove him wrong by becoming
better.  He is VERY funny, he's a walking, talking pattern interruption.

One example I remember from the book is this severely obese woman walks
into his office and he shouts, "OH my God!  The Goodyear Blimp has slipped
it's moorings!"  Another example is when he had a client who was gay, and
the client 'knew' that everyone judged him for being gay.  So Frank starts
telling him that he's RIGHT, that he can't stand tutti fruttis, and starts
telling the client not to get any funny ideas, etc.  So the client
immediately says, "You're full of shit, Frank, I know I can trust you."

Now, this kind of communication needs to be delivered with alot of humor
and a smile in your eye, obviously, because otherwise you're just being an
asshole!  The trick is to be a FUNNY asshole.  And Frank always holds his
ground, and almost NEVER stops teasing and provoking them.  It's just
hilarious!  His clients try EVERYTHING to get him to stop, too!  Everything
from crying, screaming, threatening him, being passive, everything.  But
this guy just persists no matter what and his clients do good things and
clean up their act in order to prove him wrong.

Now, this kind of communication works wonders with women, and is getting me
laid like crazy (well, almost like crazy!).  I just take whatever they
offer me and reframe it the wrong way.  If you tell a girl she's just a
prude, is probably still a virgin, and keep hammering away at her no matter
what she does (she will call you a mean asshole, or anything she can think
of to get you to stop teasing her), she will feel the need to prove you
wrong.  Keep in mind that I'm smiling and having fun when I do this, and so
does she.  If she's really visibly upset, I'll apologize and tell her, "I'm
sorry...I WAS (put it in the past) just busting your balls a little because
I think you're cute, that's all."  So I don't take it as far as Frank does,
but I do take it pretty far and it's alot of fun!  See where I'm going with
this?  If she's being a real bitch and doesn't accept my apologies (which
almost never happens), my standard thing to say is this:

I'll curl my lower lip like a little boy who's about to cry and act like a
'poor baby' and say, "But I know that I'm stupid and ugly but...but...but
SOMEBODY HAS TO LOVE ME!" and pretend to cry.  This has always softened 'em
up and gotten me back on track.  It's pretty hard to act seriously around
someone who refuses to take YOU seriously.  I learned that lesson when I
was about four years old, and it got me out of trouble alot!

Who's the guy that came up with the Bratty sister frame?  Speak up!  I'd
like to talk more with you about this!  Let's call it Provocative Seduction....


Eric T.:
I have been corresponding with a girl in Scotland that I am very much
beginning to like. She is a flight attendant and I hope to be able to win
her over via cyberspace to plan a "visit."  The important facts are:  she
is 20, I am 35, she is from Scotland, I of course am in the U.S.  I think
we are a lot alike when it comes to our specific sexual interests (I won't
go into that here). I have had cybersex with her a couple of times and we
have just been talking less than two weeks. I'm pretty adept at finding out
if someone is posing to be someone they are not and I really feel that this
one is exactly who she says she is. I have RJ's basic home course that I
went through it about three years ago but I don't know how much of that is
applicable in cyberspace. Do I need a more specialized course? Anybody got
any ideas? I am sorry if this is rehashing subjects that have already been
covered here recently.
Even though I am almost old enough to be her father, I am a young 35. I go
clubbing a lot
and am up on all of the pop culture.


I still haven't figured out the best way to incorporate the "Commercial
Section" and the links below, but I do know that what I have been doing has
allowed many of you to just skip over it.  I want you to know that there
are usually some changes in what appears below and often some new additions
so you should browse through there at least quickly.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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