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"She responded like a soft puppy"

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She responded like a soft puppy
9/8/01 9:45:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time


Regarding the issue of allowing control in a relationship.

Back at the age of 22 I got myself into a 2 1/2 year relationship with a
black women about 5 years older than me. Being new to the field of dating
and relationships at that time (due to my lack of awareness of how
attractive I was
to black women up to the age of 21) I did not have much awareness of the
need to stay in control of a relationship so being the "nice guy" I told her
I loved her all the time, always saw her whenever I could and always did
things to please her. Needless to say she had little respect for me and
insulted me, put me down and treated me with little respect overall. A few
times in the relationship I lost it and began treating her with total
authority and viciousness, to which she responded like a soft puppy. These
were the times she told me she loved me and actually offered to pay for meals
and other things we did together. I perceived her response as something
pathological and reverted back to my old ways only to have her go back to
her old ways of treating me. Eventually I cheated on her to exact revenge on
her and ended the relationship. Now looking back I laugh, knowing better.

Looking back, I see now the importance of being in control and never allowing
a woman to rule you in any sort of manner. My biggest successes have come
when I directly challenged a woman's point of view and stuck to my view.
Conversely my biggest failures came when I agreed with women on what they
said and went along for the ride. This involved agreeing to LJBF or where
they wanted to go and what they wanted to do. Eventually nothing happened
with these women. Basically the degree of your ability to assert yourself
seems to be directly proportional to the degree of success.

I am making out with a woman (black) one night in a park and reach under her
skirt to put my hand down her ass. She recoils and I say "What's wrong with
you?  You jumped like a 15 year old virgin." Down her panties my hand went.

A stripper (black) gives me a wrong number. The next week I go back and tell
her she gave me the wrong number and demand the right one. She gave me the
right one and I ended up fucking her brains out behind her boyfriend's back
for 6 months.

I am on a sales conference and bring back a girl (black) to my hotel room.
She says we just met and she should not be fucking me right away. I tell her
"You're right. We should not be kissing each other (as I am kissing her) and
I should not be taking your panties off (as I am taking them off) and I
should not be fucking you (as I am about to fuck her)."

I ask out a girl (black) to the movies for a Friday and tell her to cancel
her other plans for that day. She says she wants to go to a comedy club
instead. I said no, if not movies then no date. She agrees and pays for the
meal and the date and gets pissed off that I do not ask to take her home as
I had another girl (black stripper) waiting for me at a bar to pick her up that
night. She called me back to ask me out 2 weeks later.

For Ross who asked me and others regarding a diet to stay lean to look good:
Avoid sugar and white flour foods - pizza, candy bars, white bread, pop,
candy, limit fruit intake as it contains sugar. Why not sugar and white
flour?  It causes a fast rise in blood glucose and results in a sharp and
quick spike in insulin levels in your blood and the more insulin in your
system the more of your blood sugar is converted to fat.

Avoid high fat, greasy food - anything deep fried, fries, fried chicken,
fried fish, etc. Avoid mayonnaise, gravy, butter, margarine, etc.
Avoid any fast food - burgers, wraps, hot dogs, etc. All high in fat and will
make you look like a blimp that lost its moorings.

Do eat broiled or BBQ red meat, fish, chicken, turkey, low sodium tuna, etc.
Egg whites hard boiled, skim milk, low fat cheese, low fat dressing,
vegetables (lots of them), rice, potatoes, oatmeal, & whole wheat pasta. Drink
lots of water between meals. Take your vitamins and minerals and go to the
gym at least 4 times per week.

On Wednesday, I was talking to a guy at the gym who is a lead singer of a
cover band in Toronto. He has been playing for the last 15 years and
recently decided to lose some fat and get into better shape. In the last 3
months, he lost 25 pounds and looks leaner and sharper and told me he cannot
believe the positive response he has been getting lately from women now that
he got into better shape.

I field tested Stephane's line to ask out girls. 3 times last Sunday.  The
first girl said she was married and the third girl said she was too busy
and was with someone.  I'm also making an effort to pay more attention to
the girl when talking because I suck at recognizing trance words and
feeding them back to girls.
Sept. 2, 2001:
Saw this older HB at B&N.  I waited for her to pick up a book then asked
her "What book is that?"
H I Think You Moved My Cheese, a transvestite recommended it to me.
M Do you seek advice from transvestites?
H Well, I'll listen to just about anyone whose willing to give me their
M Well, that's very open of you.
H What?
M That's good that you can open yourself up to people so freely.
H Yeah, I guess so
M So have you ever told someone to go to hell because their advice was so
H Well, not too many people give me advice, they usually come to me for advice
M Oh, so what's the last book you read?
H I can't's been about 20 or 30 years since I've read a book.
M Really, you don't look that old.
H Well, I'm just kidding but it's been a while.
M Yeah, I used to read a lot, but sometimes it hard to find the time.
H Yeah, and pretty much I just read cheesy romance novels.
M Well, you're not alone.  I read that 51% of all books sold are romance
H Yeah I guess the idea of romance and adventure is very appealing to most
M So have you ever had a guy, come along on a big horse, and...
H ...and whisk me away?  No.  Usually they just come up to me and say, hey
baby you want a drink?
M Does that work?
H No!
M Then what does?
H I don't know.  Nothing yet.
M So you're a virgin.
H (a moments hesitation, then) No.
M Then obviously somethings worked.  What was it?
H I don't know.  (thinks a minute) A bottle of wine?
M So that's all it takes?
H Is it getting warm in here? (literally starts fanning herself)
M Yeah, I think so.  I'll bet you can just FEEL THE WARMTH growing inside
of you, to the point where you just want to go outside and FEEL THE NICE
COOL AIR....(flying by the seat of my pants obviously)
H Is it cool outside?
M Yeah, it's actually pretty nice out.
H That's good it was a little muggy when I got here, but I've been here
almost 2 hours.

I tell her about eating a Subway sandwich just a few minutes earlier
outside the store.

H Are you on the Subway diet?
(she sounded serious but anyone can see I don't need to lose weight so I
joked with her)
M Yeah!  You know six months ago, I weighed 500 lbs. (I weigh 155)
H (laughs) Well, it sure worked for you!
M Yeah, it works really good!
H (smiling) So is that with or without mayo?
M Oh, without!  You have to really learn to love mustard for this diet to work.
H Auhhg!  Only on hotdogs.

Then I smile at her and use Stephane's from Cliffs list, line.  I look it
her like I've just noticed something unusual.
H What?
M I was just wondering...what would I have to get really
H I don't know.  How old are you?
(Practically every girl asks me this!  Either they think I look to old or
in this case too young.  So I try to remember something else I believe I
read on Cliff's list)
M I'm old enough.  I'm as experienced as YOU WANT be, and as
exciting and as adventurous as YOU DESIRE ME.
H Oh that was good!
M Well, I aim to please!
H Yeah, I think I read that in a romance novel.
M Well, I don't read romance novels...I LIVE THEM!
H Oh that was REALLY good!  (going back to my question) I guess just ask me.
M Ok.  If I were to ask you out, would you smile and say yes, or would you
get offended and walk away?
H It depends on where you want to go.
M Oh God!  You're killing me!
H No!  I'm easy (let's hope so) I just want to know where you want to go.
M Well I was gonna say let's meet for a drink but I know that doesn't work.
Maybe we could meet here for coffee.
H I like that answer.  Give me your number and I'll call you.
M Well, I'm a little old fashioned, and since I asked you out, I think I
should call you.
H Oh, that was good too.  I think you're moving my cheese!
M Well, you know I was a test subject for that book.
H Oh, so now I'm your Guinea pig?
M No I was the Guinea pig.
H (laughs) Ok, you win!
M Before you give me your number perhaps we should introduce ourselves.
H Yeah.  I'm Lien.
M I'm Jeff.  (We shake hands and I keep hold of her hand)
H You caught me a little off guard here.
M Yeah, anything out of the ordinary, can catch you off guard at first, but
then when you look back on this, you can realize what a nice experience it
really is.
H How old are you?!
M Well I'm probably older then you think I am, but I'll tell you
what.  When we meet I'll let you see my drivers license.
H Let me see it now, I want to card you right now.
M No.  (I pull out my phone an tell her to give me the digits and she does)
H So what number is this?
M My mobile.
H That'll work.  Hopefully when I call you'll remember me...
M Oh I will!
H And hopefully you'll sound pleased to hear from me, because I'll be
pleased to be talking to you.
M I will.
Then we parted ways.  I felt pretty good with this HB although I still
couldn't pick out any trance words while I was talking to her, but I was
really proud of my performance.  I just have to add that this chick had an
amazing pair of breasts.  Probably fake because she was around her mid
thirties, and they were pretty big and firm.  It was easy to see she wasn't
wearing a bra as her nipples were extremely distingishable against her
tight low cut shirt.  I look forward to finding out if there real or fake.

I noticed someone commented about how Black women like White men.  Well,
just read the personal ads and it seems a majority of SBFs are searching
for SWMs.

In the past week I have met and wild thing closed a 23 year old HB (while we
were out, on two separate occasions, two AFC's have told her she looks like
Shania Twain and Catherine Zeta Jones...6 months ago this would have pissed me, I just laugh). I'm still not sure precisely how I achieved
this. This post is to give encouragement to those still on the challenging
road to seduction success, and also to seek commentary on what I did, so
next time I can do even better.

A bit about me...37 years old..receding hairline...average looks...excellent
body (hard work guys!)...gun dancer in salsa, zouk, bossa nova (even harder
work guys but an EXCELLENT way to ensure a constant stream of potential
playmates!)...psychologist (Jesus H. Christ!  Did I have to do some
unlearning after studying SS as opposed to the Women are from Venus blah
blah supplication framework!) sex for at least 3 years (combination of
pickiness and chickenness...deadly!). Bedded 8 women in my whole life (but
they were all quality!  Yeah, right!) Generally, I am pretty AFC.

The story. Introduced to Cath at a social dance. Had a few dances...didn't
say much (I was drunk at the time) except that she was good mover and giving
some advice on how she could be even better. She left without saying good
bye. Told me later she felt like a "sacrificial lamb" when introed to me.
Recently I have been paying a lot of attention to body posture and  "Alpha
Male»" non-verbals (thanks Sis). Was it her self image or my "dominant"
non-verbals that made her feel that way? Methinks a bit of both.

Saw her three days later at a social. Happily, I was on fire in terms of
being in "cocky/charming" mode (I do this well after a few drinks...working
on doing it stone cold sober). Danced a bit again...busted her balls a bit re
her style...couldn't think of anything in terms of a pattern to say except
she had interesting eyes. (Here's what I think is a good tip...often when I
can't think of anything to say I let loose with a small laugh or smile. They
nearly always think I am laughing at them in a knowing way, when in actual
fact, I am laughing at myself thinking..."you fucking idiot!...37 years
old...studying SS for a year...psychologist...and you STILL can't think of
anything to say to a girl). Went out for coffee after with friends...she
gave me a lift home...I say in the car as we arrive..."you must come up and
see how I live. No hanky panky though.....I hardly know you!" We are on
balcony.... I say  "You know, I have a very strong desire to kiss you. You
had better go home now" (probably sounded like a "take away", when in actual
fact I had CHICKENED OUT!...old Mr. AFC was rearing his ugly head!...I should
have tried Sis's smell'em method...oh well). Before she goes, I suggest
she watch some of my dance videos with me...I am Mr. AFC till she goes...we
arrange to see each other in five days time. I promise myself I will brush
up on patterns and "leading" strategies (I have Ross's and Sis's stuff)

I run into her two days later. I am surprised and unprepared. I make
ridiculous small talk and exit stage left in a hurry, saying I will see her
Thursday as previously arranged. (Once again, maybe this was perceived as
some sort of a "take away" when in fact it was Mr. AFC)  This is the one of
the hardest things for do you remind yourself to stay "switched on'
or switch yourself on in an instant...I've tried anchoring the state but
it's never seemed to work for me...does anyone have any "psych up "

Thursday comes.  As I wait for her (didn't set an exact time) I feel like Mr.
AFC godddamit? I feel it in my stomach...where does this shit come from? I
have a few drinks...feel a little better. She arrives...I try to be cool, but
Mr. AFC is strong tonite. Here's a tip...when this happens, I "semi remove"
myself...go and dance with some other to others...loosen up
before I go back. We dance a bit, but Mr. AFC is like a fucking gargoyle
perched on my shoulder whispering in my ear!  Bastid!  We go out as a group
after...I collect myself and mentally prepare patterns (BJ, Peak Experience,
but the context is all wrong. Instead, I tell VOODOO DILDO (thanks
Ross) well...also used the following joke;

Little Red Riding Hood walks thru the forest. Big bad wolf jumps out and
says "Red, I'm going to screw your brains out!"
LRRH calmly pulls out a gun and says "No way! We're going to do it just like
the book says. You're going to eat me!"

Once you have rapport, I think these types of "fun" dirty jokes are absolute
magic. Agreed? Does anyone have any more of these? Let's build a library.

Cliff's Comment:  Get on my free joke list...

She asks if I want a lift home (who would say no?). We arrive. I simply say
to her "I think you should come upstairs with me." She says nothing and looks
at me in that way women do which makes many men quake. I ask her what the
look means. She says she doesn't know whether she wants to or not. I let
loose with a combination of AFC, Ross,and SIS. Stuff like;

"We'll go slow and take it easy" (gag!)
"I believe that if two people are attracted, they should act on it."
"Life is too short"
"C'mon. Lets go!"  (command)

We get inside. I tell her to sit down on my "lounge" (simply a thick black
king size futon piled high with large bright multicolored cushions. All my
women friends love it). I do an abbreviated Sis smell close...and just keep a slow teasing way.

A three year drought broken...and I think the dam has just busted as well
and there's a flood coming down the valley. I hope this story inspires those
who need it and warms the hearts of those who see their teachings in what I

It appears that there are mainly two types of people in your list;  the
ones who desperately want to be "the man" and the others who think they are
"the man".  I wonder about the ones not in this
newsletter who are getting the women and not talking about it to educate or
boast to others, probably because they have their hands full.  I find that
more fascinating than over analyzing how to get whom you want, when you want
them.  I think the sexiest and most lasting way to keep a woman is to be
yourself.  If she does not like you, then so be it.  Shit happens.  Toughen
up.  But if she does like you in spite of knowing the real you, that is much
more substantial than being able to make her think that you are the man she
wants and risk having her wake up and having a sane thought sometime
throughout your life together.  (I know that is close to impossible, but you
never know with us women!  We can throw you a curve from time to time.)

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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