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"I have to go home and play"

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I have to go home and play
9/11/01 1:06:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time


I misattributed the 'treat her like your bratty kid sister' theory to
That idea came from one of Sysonpyh many gold nugget posts.  My apologies,

Cliff's Comment: While this is very gracious of you to apologize, it was
not your mistake but mine.  I  had thought that it was Stephane who said
that and corrected your original comment to change the credit from Sis to
Stephane.  I checked now, though, and I was wrong so both you and Sis have
my apologies.

(Commenting on: "...about not answering questions:  Sometimes I'll just
smile and say it is a secret, or ancient secret, or secret for some group
(fraternity, profession, tribe, whatever).
Or, another favorite is I could tell you but I'd have to kill you."):
Another response that I love is to smile and say "A friend taught me
that/showed me that/told me that."

Sisonpyh (
Hey guys, I wanted to point out a few things quickly that might
help.  There's an interesting dynamic that happens with relationships...

An action, attitude, communication, etc. from you will be
perceived/interpreted within the context of how you set up the relationship
and what stage the relationship is in and what her internal "picture" of
you is.

That sounded simple.  Let me explain a bit.

If you set up the relationship so that she sees you as the one who is in
control, and you're treating her like your Bratty Little Sister (my
favorite strategy), and you say "You look great", it will usually have a
profound effect... because she's not used to hearing compliments from you.
I get comments like "Wow, where did that come from?" (She'll be smiling and
feeling flattered because it is a surprise).

On the other hand, if you set up the relationship (or rather let her set it
up) so that she's in control, and you're treating her like your boss at
work and kissing her ass, then you say "You look great", it will be almost
meaningless... or even worse, she'll interpret it as you trying to kiss ass
to get approval.

Here's the key:
Once she forms her initial mental idea of you, then everything you do will
just be seen as evidence that you're really just like she thought.

Think about it.

There's been a lot of talk on Cliff's list lately about this idea of
control... I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

In general, on average, blah blah blah, if you want a woman to lose
interest in you and NOT KNOW WHY IT'S HAPPENING, then start acting like a

Have you ever heard this song:
He's everything you want
He's everything you need
He's everything inside of you
That you wish you could be
He says all the right things
At exactly the right time
But he means nothing to you
And you don't know why



As the years of my own personal learning have gone by, more and more I am
realizing that ATTRACTION HAPPENS WITHOUT CHOICE. By the same token, LOSING
the feeling of attraction happens without choice as well.

I was just watching Madonna's "Truth Or Dare" video... and someone said
"Which guy did you really love the most?" and she said "Sean". She was
talking about Sean Penn, the guy with the short fuse who would go around
punching people out.

Now, what the hell? I'll tell you what the hell... it's because she felt
ATTRACTION at a gut level from the beginning, and nothing he did... even
after he was gone... could erase that primal, primary feeling inside of her!

Back to control...

As far as I'm concerned, it's not just about being in control of the
WOMAN... it's about demonstrating that you are in control of YOURSELF, and

If you're just trying to control her, she'll pick up on it and say "Stop
trying to control me."

If you're in control of yourself and your reality at all times, and she
picks this up in every way from the subtle to the gross, then when you
control the relationship that you have with her she'll be far more likely
to accept it, and more importantly, FAR MORE ATTRACTED TO YOU AT A GUT LEVEL.

Men who control only women are usually insecure, overcompensating for a
bitch mother, or whatever... but men who are in control of their total
reality are seen as gods and worshipped by many (including the women who
just happen to be part of that reality).

I've had women say "What, do you always have to be in control? I don't like
men who try to control me..."

I just answer with "Don't take it personally. I like to be in control of
EVERYTHING. You just happen to be with me right now."

Get it?

By the way, it's often helpful to throw in "If you'd rather, I can kiss
your ass and act like your whipped little pussy boy...
"Oh, I'm sorry... did I upset you? Please, oh I'm sorry mommy."

First I tell her that it's nothing personal and to relax because I'm like
this in all situations... and then I make fun of ass-kissing men and ask
her if she'd prefer that. A powerhouse of a 1-2 punch.... serious followed
by humor, toward motivation followed by away from... contrast... and an
explanation that keeps me in control, increases attraction, and ends the

I like it.

Most importantly, set up the relationship this way from the beginning, and
she'll think of you this way FOREVER... even if you sometimes let her have
control. Just don't let it slip away gradually, because you'll find
yourself singing the song that I mentioned above.

By the way, I know that sometimes it's a pain in the ass to stay in
control, to have to think about it, to argue with bitchy women who you
still want to see... whatever. I get it.

I went through all of these same ideas of "Well, maybe I can let her have
control some of the time... and maybe THIS girl will like it if I kiss her
ass... and I really want to tell this woman how much I think about her and
how beautiful I think she is... " and whatever else. I've been there a
thousand times. My natural inclination is to avoid conflict and let a woman
have what she wants.

But now I know better.

And the small amount of effort that it takes is well worth it in the long run.

Oh, oh, oh... one more thing.

I really appreciate the guy who wrote in because he persisted with the
chick and finally got laid ... congratulations.

I wanted to comment on what to do when you don't know what to do next, are
feeling insecure on a date, whatever.

Two things:
1) If you're feeling some feelings that aren't useful, just pretend like
SHE'S the one feeling them and act accordingly.

2) If she in any way accuses you of just being interested in sex, accuse
her of projection and mention that she must be sexually frustrated.

Here's how these work...

Sometimes you'll be out on a date, meeting a girl for coffee, or
whatever... and you'll start to lose the conversation. You don't know what
to say next, you get uncomfortable, etc.

Just pretend like she's the one who's feeling that way. What would you do
if you knew that she was feeling shy, insecure, etc. but you knew that she
wanted to progress to the next level?

Inside you might say to yourself "How cute, she's feeling shy and nervous.
Maybe we should go do something to take her mind off of it for awhile. How
about going for a walk..." or something similar. Do you see where I'm going
with this?

Next, the sexual comment thing.


I figured this one out when I was meeting a lot of women on AOL. Often,
they'd ask things like "So are you just looking for sex?" or they'd say "I
don't sleep with guys I meet online," etc.

It doesn't really matter what brought it up, but if a woman mentions sex,
accuses you of just wanting sex, or for whatever reason starts talking
about it, accuse her of being sexually frustrated.

If she's accusing me of anything, then I just say "Well, you must be like
that, because I didn't mention anything about it, and you brought it up...
so it must be you."

Her "So what, are you just looking for casual sex?"

Me "Why are you bringing up sex? You must be sexually frustrated, and want
to take it out on me..."

Probably 50%-75% of the time, a woman will make a joke or comment like
"Well, yes I am... but that's beside the point!"


Remember, if you're feeling something that isn't useful, just try
pretending like it's her that's feeling it, and do something to change the
situation to 'make her more comfortable' and reduce the pressure so you can
regain your poise.

I just can't stop... one more thing. I've found it useful to VERY CAREFULLY
think through what you will do in future situations that you encounter.
Mentally rehearse exactly how you will act when a given situation comes up.
Imagine different responses from her, situations, etc. mentally prepare for
any situations that you feel are stumbling blocks. I can't stress how
important this is enough. I've been doing this for many years now, and it
has helped me with getting numbers, dealing with emotions, leading to sex,
relationships... everything. Just write down a common situation that you'd
like to improve, then write down three ways to act... then rehearse them in
your mind in detail and real time.

GameMaster:  I don' know if I've sent this to you before.  I'm coming out
of retirement (again) and dusting off all the old material and recycling
some others. This book is a treasure that I found in the archives: The
MacHiavellian's Guide to Womanizing by Nick Casanova, priced at $5.99.

Cliff's Comment:  When looking up that one, I also noted that they offer
the following:
Meeting and Acquiring Women : The Average Man's Guide to Defensive
Womanizing in the Age of Feminism by Will I. Boner.  $19.95.  Reviews are
needed.  Both of these can be ordered by going to

Mark B.:
Last night I am waiting at a strip bar for one of my dancer friends (black)
to finish her shift so I can take her home. I am sitting at the corner couch
at the back of the club and another dancer (also black, of course) comes by
and sits down diagonally from me. I had my leg stretched out on the sofa
where she wants to sit.
BS (Black Stripper) Tries to sit down.
ME I move my leg
BS "You can put your leg back"
Me I put it back on her leg.
BS "What are you doing?"
Me "Putting my leg back" (this is me imposing myself on her)
BS "Take it back"
Me I move it after a few seconds.
BS "How are you tonight?"
(I decided I was going to pretend I was gay and run a few patterns on her
just to see how they would work. I also did not want her to pester me for
dances but I wanted to see to what extent she would remain engaged without
getting myself involved as I had another girl waiting for me)
Me "Not great, girlfriend (me acting very fem). I came here to see if I could
convert myself into liking women. I am sooooo upset with my boyfriend. That
asshole is cheating on me. I called him today 10 times and he has not
returned my call. I don't now where he is tonight. I am so upset. "
BS "Really. That's too bad"

After some more relationship and men bashing and fluff talk.........
Me "Have you ever been deeply in love?"
BS "What kind of a question is that?"
Me "You know deeply in love...(this is where I run a love, attraction,
connection and sexual acceleration pattern on her)...where you feel a sense
of bond and feel warmth of a man's body wrapping
itself around you...where you make passionate love and have the man go
down on you all night long... where you cum over and over
again... you feel totally attracted and swept off your feel desire burning inside feel the
need for total fulfillment...(on and on back and forth as she
interrupted me with 'yes I know that feeling')
BS "You know I have not had sex in 9 months since my boyfriend moved out."
Me "What has kept you from that...?"
BS "I am still waiting for the right man."
ME "The right man could be very close to you right now."
BS "I have to run, gotta go."
Me "What is your name?"
BS "I'mhorny"
Me "Your name is I'mhorny??????????"
BS "I am horny as hell and I have to go home and play with myself. Too bad
you're gay."

I will go back when my other black friend is not around and take her home.

(Separate comments by Mark):
A passionate and fulfilling love affair?

On Sunday of the Labour Day long weekend a friend and I went to a club about
80 km outside of Toronto. Another friend indicated that he has always been
able to meet women easily and either get her phone numbers or have one
night stands.
The club advertises itself as the singles bar for people over 30 so I
thought what better place than that to get older (30's), desperate women.

Upon entering I see this statuesque blond, well tanned, of course, with
perfectly round and firm breasts (not real) and a killer body indicative of
many hours on the Stairmaster. I walk up to her and...
Me I wanted to let you know you are a stunning example of genetic
HB Wow, that's a new one, I never heard that one before.
Me There is a first time for everything....fluff talk.....(then I use one
of Ross' lines and say) "If I was to ask you for your number where I could
call you and we can make plans to go out, laugh, have a great time blah,
blah, blah, would you give it to me"
HB You know, I meet a lot of guys and give them my number but they never end
up calling and also I do not know you and I do not give out my number just
like that."
Me Well, then let's get to know each other in the bar.
HB Look I just got here, give me some time..

Off she went. I saw her inside once about every 20 minutes and each time with a
different guy having a blast. It appeared to me as though she was more into
indulging in the attention of many men rather than trying to get to know me
or anyone in particular. So I assumed I got the big boot and went onto other
attractive targets on the bar.

Near the end of the night on our way out I tell my friend that I have one
more thing to do. I spot her talking to some slightly overweight Indian guy.
I decided to give her a slight mind fucking and walk over around her right
side tap her on the shoulder and say
Me I am leaving now and we did not have a chance to GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER.
I guess we will never have a chance to develop into a TOTALLY FULFILLING AND
HB (She looks at me totally stunned) Well....ah....uh....are you leaving?
Me Yes I am, too bad you did not have a chance to GET TO KNOW ME.
HB Well why don't you come back here next week. I'll be here.
Me No, I live in Toronto and I am not into this place. How about your
number and I'll call you?
HB I am not into just giving out my number.
HB I will. See you later.

One week later she called, we talked for 15 minutes, I ran a few connection and
bond patterns to which she responded enthusiastically. My other line rang as
I was at the office. She figured I had to go and gave me her home phone
number and asked me to call her later...

Genetic perfection, passionate love affair, get to know me, feel like
calling me all seemed to work.

For your Geek subscribers:

Think "A good salesman never has to overcome objections, because he's
already inoculated against them in advance." (See Persuasion
Engineering).  That would really be the best.

In sales speak, it's called, cushioning the objection...  have your
cushions ready always.

Just wanted to concur with what some of the guys have been posting. Control
is paramount in keeping a relationship interesting. My first LTR was
completely screwed up because I told her I loved her. Instantly the control
shifted and she started to freak out because she was scared of commitment
and she realised that she could manipulate me.
Better, I feel, to be more descriptive with your emotions, that way you
avoid negative anchors and you can plant some suggestions too.

In regards to David's suggestions about ALWAYS keeping control. I
personally think he's right. However as Ross said, why would anyone WANT to
be always in control? Surely you're hampering her creativity and
spontenaeity if you are always in control. Well then, why not frame her
control? For instance: 'Babe, I'd really like you to decide where we're
going tonight.' Well then, she's giving you her opinions and desires, but
you have ALLOWED her to do so. Or how about 'If you don't feel comfortable
then we can leave' with this you have ALLOWED her to object. If she offers
her opinion and you haven't asked for it, then simply reject it unless it
coincides with what you want. If it does coincide with what you want then
make a big deal out of it. Why not condition her to do what you want? We do
it with our pet companions..

I was watching this crummy dating programme on TV a few nights ago, and
it's amazing how bad most men are at relating to women!! haha. Anyway this
one girl goes off on at how this guy never even listened to her. So I
started thinking... what would happen if all I did was listen... So I went
about procuring a date to test it out. I found this nice looking girl and
got her to come to dinner with me.

So there I am at this sweet little cafe sitting with this girl. She's
originally quite shy but I just ask her a few questions and she starts to
rant about something or other. I'm mirroring her like a ghost, being with
her in her emotions. Whenever she asks me a question I turn it round and
ask her what she thinks. All the time she's smiling and laughing. (I'm
naturally very talkative, I had to really struggle to not say anything,
especially when she was talking about music. I do crack a couple of jokes
at certain high points in the evening, just to set some anchors.)

Her  Blah blah blah. So, what made you want to ask me out?

Me  Well, I had reservations for these seats, and my girlfriend couldn't
come. These are great seats aren't they?

Her  (laughing) Are you joking?

Me  Of course... (set off the laughter anchor, just to make sure I didn't
offend) So what made you accept my offer?

I used silly things like that to avoid her questions all evening. Then I
just swapped it round so she was talking ALL THE TIME. (I was going for
total one way conversation to prove a theory.)  At the end of the evening
she turns to me and says 'That was a great evening. I feel really close to
you.' (bearing in mind she knows absolutely nothing about me except my name
and telephone number.) I smile and move in for a kiss on the cheek. She
kisses me on the lips. She takes a step back and looks deep into my eyes. I
smile again and arrange a second date. Now, she knows absolutely nothing
about me, she has opened herself up to me, she has not stopped calling me,
and I'm pretty sure she's ready for a close. Not bad for a silly theory
test. (I probably could have closed on the first date, but I wanted to see
if she would suggest it, which she didn't.)  That's with very little
patterning at all, just me being funny and listening EVERY single time.
Occasionally I would bring up something she had said earlier to reaffirm
that I was listening, and because she would enter a pleasure state on a
couple of subjects...

So what do you guys think about that? Obviously I got pretty far. There's
got to be some negative sides to it, and I'm pretty sure you can point them

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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