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Text book PU
9/15/01 8:05:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time


Please let me take this moment to offer my condolences, sympathy & support
to all those affected by the tragic events that went on in the U.S. this
past week.

However you choose to use the knowledge of seduction that you hopefully are
gaining from reading these emails and the various related writings and
products mentioned here, seduction is always a way for two humans to become
intimate and especially to share those intimacies and caring in trying
times.  At times like these we need ways to feel good together and
connecting makes even more sense now than ever.


MM in-field workshop in NYC (dates Sept. 26 - 29) postponed. No new date set.


Text book PU

This is a tale of a text book pick up.  It uses a strong opener, basic group
theory, SS, games, equalizers and best of all really HOT chicks.  Enough
with the bull, here's the beef:

It starts with MTL-PUA and NightLight9 (that's little old me) sarging in a
bar on Crescent in Montreal (I think it's called Newtown. And it has 3
levels all with terraces) with Clifford, Alex and Tristan.  We're having a
blast (I'll post more on general evening tactics in a different post).  The
bar is starting to get old when two angels float in.

The first words out of my mouth are "We have to sarge these two."  MTL-PUA
agrees and we watch surreptitiously as they cross the bar and come all the
way around to the well to get a drink.  They get their drink and I see
them notice us (but this is peripheral, so they don't know and we haven't
blown the 3 second rule - this place is packed and there is no way to get to
them in 3 seconds anyway).  MTL-PUA says "Let's go."

I say "Hold on. Let's see where they settle." (They just got a drink, so if
we walk over there now and we get there right as they turn to leave, our
opener is blown, dead before we even start). They walk to other side of the
bar, so MTL-PUA and I sarge our way over, but there's nothing interesting
to talk to,
so we move pretty quickly.

We walk up.  One is about 5'6" Brunette, with a great body who turns out to
be a ballerina, the other is a blond at-least 5'11" and an art student.  I
swear this girl has the longest legs I've ever seen.  They go all the way
from her ass to the floor.  MTL-PUA is about 6'2" I would guess, maybe taller,
and well proportioned.  This girl is a few inches shorter but her ass is
literally about a foot further up in the air than his.   This girl is leggy :-)
Both these 19 year olds are very physically attractive and carry
themselves with grace that can't help but attract attention.  They stood out
in a bar full of attractive women.

MTL-PUA and I are in a great playful and happy mood.  We walk up and I do
the 15
minute opener.

NL9  Are you girls really shy or something?
HBs No.
NL9  We've been here almost 15 minutes and you haven't even said hello.

Everyone laughs.

At this point MTL-PUA does a great special positioning move.  When we walked
up, we were obviously next to each other, with me a little to the front.
MTL-PUA moves himself to the left to engage HBArt and starts to spin their
of two so we have instant separation.






Now we are in a great position for continued convo where we are a group of 4,
not 2 groups of two.  He did this very quickly, before we had stopped
laughing at the opener.

MTL-PUA puts his arm, fist out towards me at about 6 inches higher then my head
(expecting me to finish the fist equivalent of a high 5, by doing the same).
I do and as I do it, I say.

NL9  Wonder Twin powers activate!
NL9  Form of an ice breaker!
NL9  Shape of Hello!  (for those of you not familiar, this is reference to
a cartoon where this brother and sister had a magic power that when their
rings met one became something to do with water and the other became an
animal )

Everyone was laughing again and because of MTL-PUA's great movement, we're
in natural position to separate.  From this point on, I'm just working with
my chick and he with his.

Ask "So what brings you two out tonight?"  Start talking with general fluff
(with the goal of eliciting values) and she says she's studying ballet.
Anytime you know a girl is studying ballet, you know a lot more about her.

NL9  You ballet dancers pretty boring.
HBB What?
NL9  Yeah.

She starts back pedaling about how she's taking some jazz classes and thinks
she wants to do that instead.  And how she's traveled.

NL9  I used to do some backup dancing for local bands
equalizer is something that puts you on the same level as her, it is similar
to neg in concept, delivery, and effect but it's based on commenting on
you, not her> but I got sick of the prima donna in the band.  What a pain in
the ass they were.  Then I decided to be doctor, but now I ended up an
statement bragging, and it acted as an equalizer>

She had brought up traveling, so I pattern about two lines on traveling.  Next
I went with the actor question (credit Tristan to telling me about this, but
I don't know where he got it from.)

NL9 I always think it's interesting.  Who is your favorite actor, and why?
HBB Kevin Spacey.
NL9 You're kidding. Really?
HBB  Yeah I love him.

I patterned like crazy on how he is so amazing , how he connects with
that's why he can become them and then he can express himself and that that
is what
makes him an artist, etc.  At this point we have a ton of rapport and I am
tilting my head to everything she says, she is completely tranced out.

Next I go into what I call my Hitting On Me Connection Pattern (I've used it
3 times and it's gotten great response each time).

NL9 "I was just talking to my friend about getting hit on.
quotes, nearly as much a softener and segue as regular quotes, plus more
transference and credit, I'm going to start using this a lot more>  I said
to her "I can always tell when someone is hitting on me because there's
effort behind it.  They are just trying too hard  and
it doesn't feel right .  Now, you can meet someone  who you
do connect with .   And sometimes when you meet someone and you
connect it just feels natural, doesn't it?  Like it was meant to be." And
she said to me. "Yeah, it's like you can feel it and it's so
powerful.  It's almost like a beam of light going from me to you. right
says, and it

She introduces herself and I shake hands but don't release.  She doesn't try
to let go.

I pattern on opportunity but, the people near us are constantly giving
cheers really loudly and doing shots.  It's a big group and they are
breaking her trance a little.  So when I get to the end about how you can
seize opportunity right as they get loud, and I say "or you can just get
drunk and make a fool of your self" and point at the group.  Then I
say, "but you can do what ever you want if you want to."

At this point, I figure it's time to get what I came here for, so I kiss
her.  She doesn't move in too much, but she doesn't pull away.  It's a just a
small kiss on the lips.  Wait a few seconds and kiss her again.  It's better
this time, but still not really passionate.  She is definitely into me, but
still young and nervous.

NL9 Lets go upstairs to the terrace.

So I ignore her agreement I swear MTL-PUA and I are sharing a brain,
because his chick
goes, "Let's go upstairs."  So I know he just asked her the same thing :-)
MTL-PUA is obviously rocking too.

They head towards the front of the bar, where the stairs are.  Oddly
his HB head to the terrace there, but I take my chick upstairs as planned.
When we get up there, she notices they aren't there.  She isn't freaking
out, but I can tell she's not comfortable.

HBB Where did my friend go?
NL9  I don't know, but I'm sure that she's with MTL-PUA and he would never
leave me.
and used
the exact same line - We are talking some serious psychic friends' network
shit as we both just came up with this reframe on the fly>

I can tell she needs a GF check in, so I say  "Let's go find them."

We go down stairs, and I take her right to them. She asks her friend if she
is ok and she definitely is :-)  So we go back upstairs.

On the roof I elicit values and talk about being a perfectionist
perfectionist ballerina, no way.> Then I use a standard 'looking beyond
beauty' pattern.  I start the kino.  In a few minutes we are macking hard
core and we are pulled really tight to me and my leg is between hers.  We
make out for about an hour.

MTL-PUA and his chick appear and MTL-PUA starts dancing with his chick.  I
ask mine
if she wants to dance too and I can tell she is nervous about performing in
front me.  She says "before when I said I knew the Meringue, I was lying"

should have patterned on honesty "You know when you were little and they told
you that telling the truth after you did something wrong was good", but I was
getting very tired and not thinking that clearly.>

It's getting late, we take a few pics and MTL-PUA's chick yells "Can we give
your our email addresses?"  We say sure, and I say let's get out of here.
Everyone agrees and then girls go to the bathroom for a GF check in.  MTL-PUA
tells me his chick has a BF, but it's clear she doesn't like him, just likes
having a BF.  The bouncer comes to get us to leave and the girls walk
out.  They
have big smiles, so I know we're in.

We leave the bar, much kino and start walking.  We walk a while and decide
to get a cab.  I'm reached the point where my tiredness is preventing me
from being very effective.  On the cab ride, I'm just not on and because only
3 of us sit in the back seat MTL-PUA doesn't have good access to his chick.

We get there and we blow the fuck close because I'm so tired and I say,
"Let's go up stairs," which would be fine with 22 year olds but young girls
don't know how to manage this situation.  My girl wants to go, but I can
tell she's nervous about her friend's BF even though it's clear she wants to
go up too.  MTL-PUA's chick says it's up to you, to my chick, who hesitates
a few
seconds teetering and says "Maybe we better not."  Fuck, blew the close!!!
They run over to the lobby desk and write down their names and numbers
without us asking.  We make out hard core for a few minutes in the lobby
with other people in the room, and MTL-PUA is kissing his chick right there
but it's clear they are going up without us.

The next morning I wake up like a bolt and all I can think is, "We can only
come up for few minutes."  "We can only come up for few minutes."  "We can
only come up for few minutes."  Live and learn.  MTL-PUA, feel free to
correct as appropriate.

I want to thank Clifford, Dwayne, Tristan, Alex and MTL-PUA for the great
time I had in Montreal.  Hanging with you guys and seeing all your different
styles, really helped my game.  Cliffy, you rock, but then, you already knew


I write this sarge in the hope that it will inspire you and take your
minds off what has happened , though it is of course strongly tied to the
events of this week.

Last week I  hooked up with a woman at a local coffee shop. I had met her
a few months ago. As we sit down, I notice a stunning brunette next to us.
Though I normally would  not have made a serious effort to get her number
since I was already with another woman, this one gave me such a friendly
smile and had such a great energy that I had to do something about it. But
I wanted to it in such a way that would not offend the very decent woman I
was already with.

I succeeded. I simply politely interrupted my conversation with my lady
friend, turned to the other lady and said, 'I'm sorry but I couldn't help
notice your beautiful Parisian accent. It just reminded me of my vacation
in that wonderful city and it is like music to my ears. Are you of French

She answered with a warm smile and from there it was child's play. I
simply asked her to join us at our table, calibrating to make sure my
friend was
ok. I got them both involved in a great conversation. After 15 minutes
Maily (pronounced My -lee) my new friend had to leave. But before leaving  she
asked US when we were doing a recital (the other lady is a violinist). So
I of course offered to put her on my email list and send her an invitation
to my next recital.

Finished off the evening with my violinist friend, who was fine with all
of this because I hadn't neglected her in any way,and had always included her
in our conversation.

Fast forward to today.

Noon. I wander the streets talking with various people in my neighborhood
about the incredible events of the morning. I walk by the jewelry shop she
works in and hesitate before going in. I knew she was working today and
had actually planned to close for a meeting. But now, since my state was
so different I didn't know if it would be a good idea.

I decide to go in and just chat. She is very friendly and greets me
warmly. We talk about the events, reflecting solemnly on something we know will
burn itself in our memories forever. Since she is servicing a customer, I
prepare to leave. But she turns to me and asks me if I'll be around the
neighborhood. A great sign. I immediately offer to get together for coffee

Six p.m., she's right on time. We sit, we continue on the topic of the
tragedy. I had thought about it all day, as had every other person on the
planet. We both were both feeling so odd. Yet we also both felt such a
need to express ourselves about it. The delicate thing was finding a way of
doing it without anchoring and exacerbating these intense emotions.
I  found the
way. I decided to avoid doing what everybody else was doing. That is,
rehashing over and over again the gory details of  body parts, people
throwing themselves off the towers and so on, and focus instead on the
need for reflection and for searching for other aspects to  the event.

'You know' I said, ' one thing we can say for sure, today, many new
friendships will be formed. People will connect in incredible ways,
millions of New Yorkers roaming the streets, thousands of stranded
travelers  will
inevitably be drawn towards each other in the face of this common tragedy.
Sons and daughters will remember to call their parents and  tell them that
they love them, parents will hug their small children and thank God that
they are  safe. Those are the moments that may redeem us yet.'

As I said this, I wasn't even pointing between the two of us . I didn't
need to. We were already developing a warm connection even as I was speaking .

I did her cube. It was a beautiful picture; a balanced, strong realist,
a healthy size glass cube with a silver lining, flowers blooming in a desert
of rich fertile soil and a sturdy white Pegasus flying gloriously under a
storm whose rains only made the flowers and the elements of the picture
healthier and more vibrant.

It lasted a mere hour. I walked her back to her car, I didn't even have to
worry about whether or not I should set up the next meeting or even how.
She had many times expressed sincere interest in my music. I simply asked her
to join me for dinner at my place this Sunday evening. She agreed without
even flinching. As we parted I gave her a tender kiss on the cheek, she
responded with a warm and genuine hug and told me that she was very happy I had
invited her for coffee. She had been afraid of feeling depressed about all
this and somehow I had managed to make her feel ok.

What I liked best about this woman was her total lack of mind games. No
"playing hard to get". It seems that our feelings stemming from the day's
tragedy were too genuine to allow any kind of the usual bullshit.

I  went home happy. Feeling a sense of peace. Grateful for the good
fortune of being alive, and more importantly for having been blessed with
like Ross, Major Mark and all of you with whom to share my feelings and


Stephanie (Commenting to Christopher):
Just because a person (man or woman) does not feel the need to boast or
inform others of their sexual exploits does not mean they don't have any,
but rather happen to have manners and class.  Whatever happened to men with
good manners and no underlying motives?  Or at least if they have one they
are subtle about it.  A person who needs to be trained to speak on how
to get a woman in one's life likely doesn't really have much to offer to
begin with.  If you are lacking in personality no matter how many lines or
techniques you learn, you are still a bore.  No matter who you are, if you
are in a long term relationship your true colors will show eventually.  If
yours are off colored then I would suggest that you run, duck and get a good
lawyer.  I live and work in Silicon Valley where many so called computer
geeks are also working and residing and here there are three men to every
one women.  I would much rather date a man who is intelligent and not much
to look at than some pompous asshole who had to be taught how to appear
attractive to me and subtly manipulate me into liking him and sacrificing my
entire future to be with his sorry, no good ass.  As far as who you are, yes
I do believe that man has control over his feelings, interests, morals and
goals.  And if you have no poetry in your heart you won't touch me, but if
you don't even know your own heart how will even you know whether you do or
not?  If you really know yourself and are comfortable and accepting, more
people will be willing to do the same.  Someone like this sounds to me like
someone who is
a miserable person who avoids love and real intimacy at any cost.
If you are not yourself then whoever you end up with will not be in love
with you, but rather the image you project.


Ross will probably say it better than I can, but I know
it needs saying, so I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here:

These guys think it's important to retain all the control
all the time.  I think it's funny and smacks of rigidity,
like a little boy who throws a snit fit over not getting
his little ice cream cone or toy or whatever.

There was a study done (Cialdini, if I remember right),
that showed the best way to extinguish an undesirable
behavior was an absolute lack of response.

Punishing undesired behaviors often reinforces those
behaviors.  I wouldn't be surprised if every time you go
off on some woman's bullshit some part of her mind is
laughing up it's sleeve and saying "look at how stupid
that fucker looks!"  Even if you do it in a low key way,
with maximum possible dignity, she may just indulge that
behavior, just to show herself she has some control over

All of that goes away when a woman perceives you as a
rare and valuable commodity, and knows you are willing
to "next" her.  Then she knows her act had better come
together, or she will end up forgotten in the trash bin
of your history.

I really enjoy being surprised by a woman anticipating
my desires and satisfying them in her own inimitable way.
This only happens with a woman who has enough latitude
to show initiative, and for whom pleasing me is in itself
a reward.

That won't happen when put the blinders on her and crack
the whip constantly.

The key here is self-understanding.  You need to know
what limits you need others to observe, and you need to
know what pleases you, and cooperate within that framework.

Then all you have to do is touch her with the spurs, and
watch her respond (borrowed that line from Ross's frame


Hi, I want to say to all of you out there that I really want to be as good
as all of you are at seducing women. The thing is I am a student and don't
have enough money to buy the products I should.

I have learned the basics from this list. It is you people whom I admire
and If I am mistaken the key to seducing women (please give me your
feedback on this), is by this following system.

1. Approach
You should always approach with confidence, directness and power. As if it
is something you are comfortable with doing and thus they will believe you
know what you are doing.

2. Opening lines
Be inquisitive, interested, and never argue.  Mirror everything she does so
she thinks you are like her and you are Mr. Right. Use open body language».

That's where I am stuck. I don't know how to ask for a date, and where to
go, what to do, or even how to get her into bed. Can you guys help? I
really want to become an expert. Is there some free sites out there you can


(Commenting on: Stephane "But I usually have no problem tuning on the lust
doing this.  That's because I absolutely love interrupting patterns.  I'll
go from total
'asshole/joker/teaser' and STRAIGHT to sincere.  Just as an example..."):

Lately you've been posting a lot of awesome stuff.  Really
good thought provoking things about framing and challenging her views.  This
is one of the diamonds that might easily get lost.  I do this all the time,
but I never realized it.  Just change the subject, subtext and tone of
conversation just like that.  It definitely causes a state change in them. Use
it to your advantage.

I was thinking about this the other day.  Have you ever had one of those
friends who you didn't actually like that much, you know, kind of an
asshole, but you still hung out with him because he was exciting and wanted
to do fun things?  I think for a lot of women they date some men for the
same reasons.  Sure
he's a bit of an effort to deal with, but he's fun and exciting.  He keeps
me busy and entertained, even though in my mind I shouldn't like it.  If you
want to think about it.

(Commenting on:  "Stephane  [snip] And I never thought this would ever
happen, but she said that I
was talking TOO slowly!  I have never been told this before and was
shocked, because I have no re-collection of having talked slowly at
all.  I thought I might have spoken too FAST, because this used to be my
tendency.  So don't overdo it either!  But generally, guys speak too
fast.  I have been working very hard at slowing down my movements, voice,
etc., and have had good results with it."):

One thing to note is that speech speed is different than speech pattern
(which includes pauses).   You typically want to mirror someone's speech
speed, while still inserting pauses.  If someone speaks extremely, extremely
slowly, you may not want to slow all the way down to their speed (in my case I
wouldn't even want to talk to them), but you do want to come close.  If
someone speaks really fast, you want to go significantly slower than them,
but you can go faster than someone who speaks normally.  Generally someone's
speech speed indicates the speed at which their brain processes verbal
communication and the speed at which they are comfortable listening to.
Don't forget the pauses though.  Stephane, did she speak quickly in general?

(Commenting on: "MTL-PUA
MTL-PUA commenting on Stephane's comments
The moral Stay on top of your game and challenge EVERYTHING she says. Keep
her on her toes, and DO NOT LOSE CONTROL of the situation; EVER."):

I've seen MTL-PUA in action and one thing he does really well is not
apologize.  For instance, if he says "What's your name" and she doesn't hear
him and says "What?", he says "Your name... You do have a name, right?"
like she's being the asshole.  The funny thing is, he does it with the
slightest smile, and they love it.  That's one thing I'm really trying to
incorporate into my game.


Cliff, see if anyone on the list knows about this shit:


Mark B.:
You know I have been thinking about the difference between the "nice guy"
and the "jerk" and the whole issue of control in relationships all in
one.  Women claim that they want a "nice guy," a gentleman, someone who
buys them flowers, treats them well, buys the cards and holds open doors
and kisses their ass. At the same time they seem to date men that treat
them like shit, cheat on them, do not call and otherwise treat them with
little overall respect.  How does one reconcile the two along with the
issue of control?

It seems that women need to feel the strong masculine energy of a man in
order to feel feminine and protected. They continually feel the need to
reassure themselves of the existence of his masculinity, in order to feel
safe, by testing the extent to which she can control him. The greater the
control she can exact over him the less masculine he appears in her eyes.
That is why women seek out men that resist their desires and act in the
face of her wishes and whims. They display more masculinity and as a
result  a woman can feel safer and thus more attracted to him. This is why
we read stories of women succumbing to men who mismatch and assert their
desires over them. A women under that scenario feels safe to surrender
because she somehow feels that he has the masculine energy to protect her
from harm since he is able to show that he can assert himself to her and in
the face of the world. This ability appears to overshadow the lack of
meeting her wishes and desires.

When women say they want to get a nice guy and like they way nice guys
treat them,  I believe there are two separate and distinct issues here that
we need to deal with. Let's deal with the issue of women saying they want
to get a nice guy but they fall for jerks first. Notice how I said to get
him is the goal, not keeping him around. By getting him to be nice and
succumb to her wishes she has realized subconsciously that he has given up
his power and now is powerless to protect her and stand up to the world.
She no longer looks up to him. It seems that the ability to know whether a
man is controllable is very important for it indicates to her the extent to
which she can trust him and feel safe and she feels the need to continually
reassure herself of his ability. This is why you see women constantly
trying to control the men they date in they hope of reassuring themselves
they can feel safe and feminine. And when we stand up to them right off the
bat when we meet them and show them we are in control and will not be taken
by their whims they feel more attracted to us and stay around. They stay
around continually trying to gain the upper hand in order to see whether we
still have the ability to retain control.  I also believe this is why women
seek to date men they cannot control or jerks, as they are called. They
admire these men, as much as they complain and whine about them, for their
ability to assert themselves.

The second issue is one where women say they like to get flowers, cards and
other crap as well as having doors held and other gentlemen type nonsense
done for them. Notice again that women say they like to get flowers and
cards from a man. What they do not say is they love a man who gives them
flowers or cards. Subtle but important distinction. They simply like the
material gifts but not necessarily the source of those gifts. They perceive
gift giving as a weakness because it's assertiveness from a man they really
want to see rather than material offerings which are seen as a backdoor way
of getting things done in the world.

Regarding the issue of attention, there is a lot of literature on when a
man should call a woman or how often. I have found that women need to feel
a sense of connection and bonding right away. Withholding contact and
attention causes her to feel abandoned, as if you have other better
priorities in the world. When you do call her after an absence she feels
like your second choice. I think calling her and being attentive is
appropriate as long as you do it on your own terms. In other words call
when you feel like but often enough she feels attended to and take her
where you desire as often as you want but all on your own terms.

Basically the whole issue boils down to control. The next time she tries to
control you or get you to agree you can think "By agreeing this will make
me look to be lesser of a man and by disagreeing I will look more
attractive."   Also, when you think of going for what you want and
expressing your desire for her you can keep in mind that even though she
may not agree to what you suggest you will look more attractive in her eyes
simply by going for what you want. And this will increase the odds of
inevitably getting what you desire.

This explains why when women do not run away when I tell them I want to
sleep with them, have passionate love affairs, or otherwise.  Even though
they sometimes may not agree to what I suggest they stay around and feed
off the strong male assertive energy they need to feel.

To give you real life example, I met a married woman a while back. I told
her I wanted to sleep with her behind her husband's back within 5 minutes
of meeting her. She said no but despite that she kept calling me and
e-mailing everyday. The more she asked me to stop talking about sex the
more I talked about it. The more she wanted me to stop grabbing her when I
saw her, the more I grabbed her. Her response to that was laughter and
giggles. Eventually she began calling me at home at night to talk when her
husband was out. I did nothing here but mismatch and disagree with
everything she ever did and said and her response was incessant calls,
frantic e-mails and great profound declarations of love for me. I put an
end to it when she said she fell deeply in love with me.

I could recount other stories of this nature but I am sure you all get the


There is all this talk about dominating a woman. But my serious question
is, what if you are looking for a naturally DOMINANT woman, and you are a
naturally SUBMISSIVE male? Aren't dominant women naturally attracted to
submissive men? I like HOT women, but being spanked by women turns me on
like nothing else.

Do you attract a dominant woman by being submissive from the beginning, or
by being dominant and then "switching roles" in the bedroom?

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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