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"She’s such a Heartless Bitch"

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She’s such a Heartless Bitch
9/22/01 10:53:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time


David Shade (
Ross tells us to read "A Passion for More" by Susan Shapiro Barash, c 2001
Berkeley Hills Books, ISBN 1-893163-24-5.  Ross has given us another truly
outstanding recommendation.  The book includes the interviews of 57 women
who have had extra marital affairs.

Every woman had something missing in her marriage. Each woman filled the
missing need by taking a lover.  Some of the women felt guilt about it, but
most did not. In all cases, the women were happy they did it, as it
ultimately led her to greater enlightenment and fulfillment.

For almost all the women, they had much better sex with their lover than
with their husband.  For a few, the sex was better with the husband. In all
cases, the woman's thoughts were consumed with the man that she had the most
exciting sex.

For some women, she had great sex with the man because she felt close to
him. For some women, she became close to him because she had great sex with

One could conclude from this book that a woman has four basic needs that
must be met 1) affirmation, 2) sharing, 3) to feel like a woman, and 4)
exciting sex.  1) Affirmation, in that she needs to feel appreciated and
respected for the individual that she is.  She needs to know that she is
affirmed in her endeavors.  2) Sharing, in that she has the need to share
her feelings with her man and to receive the sharing from her man.  She
needs to be able to "communicate" emotionally with her man and to feel that
"emotional connection." 3) Feel like a woman, in that she needs to feel
beautiful, sexy, and feminine.  She needs to enjoy all that comes with being
a woman.  4) Exciting Sex, in that she needs to be seduced, excited, and
satisfied, over and over again.  She needs to experience new things, in new
ways, including fantasies and roles.

As I was reading this book, I thought to myself many times "Major Mark told
us exactly that in his book 'Scoring with Married Women.'"  In fact, it
showed that every single word he wrote is absolutely true.  You would
understand if you had read both books.

I have taken a few quotes from the book to give you a flavor for the book.
Because these are very minimal quotes, they are thus by definition taken out
of context. Certainly, each woman's situation was more involved.  But it
gives you and idea...

Honey "The sex was very good, very different.  We had more oral sex than in
my marriage and the sex itself lasted longer, the time devoted to turning
each other on.  The whole experience made me more sexual and that came out
in the marriage, too.  In other words, I used the sex with him to aid sex
with my husband.  The affair awakened me sexually.  I felt more uninhibited
with my lover than with my husband.  We had anal sex.  He was a superb
lover.  I could have multiple orgasms with him, which wasn't happening in my
marriage at the time.  I was obsessed with him when he wasn't around,
although we were together a few days a week.  I was happy for a brief time,
then I quickly became bored.  It was strictly sexual, the relationship.
There was an excitement in the breaking of the rules, but it was emotionless,
and that is why I became bored.  Still, I needed the male attention he gave
to me, something my husband wasn't giving at that time.  He was too
self-involved and preoccupied with work.  Once he found out, he stopped
trusting me and I thought our marriage would end.  Then our sex became
incredible because he knew that it was only the sex that was different in the
affair; there was no love. And he wanted me to be happy in bed.  We worked
on being honest and attentive like never before.  Now my marriage is
sensational, growing on every level.

Kristen  "I needed him to be there to hug me and to tell me it was okay.  I
knew all along that this man wasn't what I wanted.  But if sex was what it
took, that was fine.  I had to get by.  The sex was all right, but nothing
special.  I let this one end fairly quickly."

Lucy "The sex was excellent because he was so skilled.  It was a learning
experience for me.  At first I slept with both my husband and this man;
eventually I had sex only with my lover.  It was hot.  We had sex every
possible way.  For almost a year there was an intense, hot situation.  The
sex was wild and continual."

Sandy "It was a wonderful sexual and emotional union and I never felt
guilty.  My lover adored me.  He thought I was beautiful and gave me
everything I wanted.  The sex was loving and gentle but also uninhibited and
open.  We'd have sex everywhere.  We did it in restaurants, in the back of
the movie theatre.  Wherever we were, we did it.  If we went away, we'd do
it on a mountain cliff, in the beach, in the car all the time, in the buggy
ride in the city."

Hanna "The sex was very exciting in the beginning.  I'd see him daily
sometimes, other times a few days a week, so there was lots of sex.  Because
he accepted me, I was able to play out sexual fantasies.  The fantasies were
things I would have done with my husband if he'd been willing.  But with my
lover there was no question that he was willing. My relationship with my
lover made me see myself as a whole person and I rejected my husband's
needs.  My lover was reinforcing.  He made me feel beautiful."

Rebecca "Sex with my lover was very different than with my husband.  He's
more attentive.  My lover gets excited talking about it and my husband
wouldn't ever discuss it.  I tried to seduce my husband all the time.  If I
began to talk with my husband he wouldn't even put down the magazine he was
reading. No matter how important or trivial the matter, he ignored me. My
lover listened to anything I had to say. He is the opposite of my husband
in every way.  Now I think of my lover as very handsome, but in the
beginning my husband seemed handsomer."

Priscilla "I realized I needed attention and I sought it outside the
marriage. As soon as my husband left on Monday morning for his job and the
kid went to school, my lover came over and we spent the entire day together.
It was wonderful, absolutely fabulous.  During the winter we'd spend the
whole day in bed, leaving only to prepare lunch or to retrieve the mail. The
sex was nonstop and quite different from anything I'd every expected. I
became so attached to him.  It was not like any relationship I'd ever known.
The sex was terrific and we were so devoted."

Cynthia "The main attraction was sexual. He was a terrific lover and we had
a great sex life all the time."

Marsha "I'd see him once a week, and we'd dance and have sex. It was
incredible beyond my wildest imaginings. It became an obsession. If I
couldn't see him, I'd flip. We went right to his place and made passionate
love. The sex was like nothing you could ever imagine. After coming from a
passionless marriage, his passionate love and sex made me crazy. We did it
everywhere, on the kitchen floor, the bathroom floor, against the wall, on
the bed, off the bed, you name it. I was exhausted and exhilarated and sick
to my stomach at the idea of it being six in the morning and needing to
drive home to my husband. On the ride home, I kept remembering the six hours
of solid lovemaking and my stomach churned at the thought of it. I lied to
my husband and said I'd stayed at a friend's house. From that point on, the
marriage fell apart. I was bumping into walls. All I did was think of my
lover and when I'd next see him. Then I began to realize that it was my
husband who had the problem, not me. If my lover would so readily and
continually touch me, happily, then my husband was the one who didn't get

Lilly "As an affair it was very exciting. The sex was fabulous when we were
in that stage because there was less to lose. Once I fell hopelessly in love
with him, and it was more than an affair, it was a disappointment.  I have a
theory that these affairs work wonderfully as affairs but as relationships
they rarely work. What I see is how one fantasizes about these affairs, the
sex and passion."

Maryanne "As soon as we began the affair, I began to feel good about
myself. Mostly it was the sex. We share an incredible sex life."

Marla "The affair began during a bad point in my marriage. I suppose I
became obsessed after a time. The sex was great. It was the best I'd ever
had. We did everything. We did it against the washer and dryer. The sex was
beyond belief. The best in the world. We did it on the train tracks, we did
it in bars. He would masturbate me at a crowded bar. We did it in the
Tavern, in the ladies room. It was wild and highly sexual."

Julie "The sex was hot and heavy, very passionate. On Wednesdays, I was off
from work and we'd spend the entire day in bed at a motel. We did it for
hours, having intercourse three times at least. He was very attentive and
caring. He took his time and was interested in satisfying me. We never
rushed through it. It was wonderful and I realized how unlike a marriage it
was. Every aspect of our time together was important. I became obsessed with
him and thought of him all the time. I'd drop my kid at school and rush to
see him for an hour. We'd stay up all night sometimes, making love and
drinking wine. My self-esteem had been low, due to a bad marriage. Then he
came along. I was told I was sexy, beautiful, and smart. I felt like a woman
again. I began to realize that I needed a lot from a man that I wasn't
getting from my husband. Intimacy, communication, sex - I got it all from my
lover. I began to identify myself as a sexual being; that was a big deal to
me.  And I loved the glamour of it, not just being a housewife and a mom,
but having a lover with a secret world. We fulfilled each other's fantasies
for a long time.

Rachel "He was absolutely magnificent. It was a relationship based on
incredible sex."

Alex "As it got going, the sex happened whenever we got together. Sex was
unbelievable from the start and it is even better today."

Karen "The sex in this affair is what keeps it going. It is the most
amazing ever. Whenever I've been with a lover, I've had sex that goes on and
on, but nothing like this. I have noticed the difference between clitoral
orgasm and a vaginal orgasm.  The sex with my latest lover is in a class by
itself. I know the volume of orgasms is much greater with my lover than with
my husband. I can't describe it. I do things with my lover that I'd never do
with my husband, never. We try everything, we did it eight and ten times a
night. I think of him when I'm having sex with my husband. I think about him
a lot of the time."

Chelsea "We had a lot of sex. The sex was very different from the marriage.
Sex in my marriage stunk by them. It was weird how willing my lover was to
try anything and so was I.  It was a completely different experience. I
found myself doing sexual things I never expected to do."

Eva "The sex was much better with my lover than with my husband, and we did
it more times a day. And it was full of love. We'd spend entire days making
love. I'd say to him 'Do it 'til you're raw or not at all.' We'd both be
sore but happy. We had sex everywhere, on his motorcycle in the woods, and
at his house we'd do it on the washing machine. It certainly was a departure
from sex with my husband lying flat in bed with the lights out."

Robin "While sex with my husband has always been fine, it was not great.
With my lover, it's so incredible it's hard to give up. I'd like to make
love to him for the rest of my life. It began in a calm manner. I was
cautious, a most afraid. After all, I hadn't slept with someone else in ten
years. Then the sex became wild and crazy. We did it every way possible, we
invented things. We went beyond expectations, beyond anything I ever dreamed
of. I never slept with both men the same day. I was lucky I was able to
control when I had sex with my husband. And I never did the same things with
my husband sexually. He wouldn't ask me to, because he knew I would refuse.
But I did them with this man, gladly."

Samantha "The sex was amazing. The first time, he moved the earth."

Nicole "The relationship was sexual. It was all about sex. Sex like I'd
never known before, total abandon' no part of my body seemed uninteresting.
In fact, it was all extremely interesting to him. Nor was any part of my
body unworthy of exploration. I'd blink and hours would be gone. That was
how it seemed when we were together. I mean my eyeballs would roll. There
are few men who can stay with that kind of thing, that kind of sex. I
believe it an unusual man who puts a woman ahead of himself in bed."

Kate "Sex with him was the most wonderful experience. He was a thrilling
man, in every way. The sex was unique, always different, always incredible.
I began to feel sexual; I could demand good sex with my lover. I didn't
sleep with my husband at all."

Laura "It was a perfect affair. I could think of little else. It was all
that I ever expected it to be. We met during the day for romantic
interludes. The sex was fabulous. Half of the people in my business are
having affairs. It isn't only men who have affairs, but women too. After
all, who are those men having affairs with, only their single secretaries?
Not at all. I know that for a fact. There are so many people having them. I
believe that women have affairs because there is something in their marriage
which is lacking, boredom sets in or they are no longer in love with their
husbands. I have a whole new life. I regrouped and emerged richer."

Jessica "Sex with my husband was basically screwing, something we did when
we went to bed, after David Letterman. It was a routine like doing the
dishes. It was Letterman, brush your teeth, sex. My husband did not like
oral sex and didn't want to do it. He wanted me to do it to him though. I
didn't know this bothered me until after I had the affair. Then I realized
how I felt about it. Once I had my lover, I questioned how happy I was and
what it was I was in search of. With my lover, the sex was much more
original, there was a chemical attraction, and the actual sex lasted longer.
My lover bought me negligees and bustiers, which made the sex exciting. We
took showers together; he'd shave my pubic hair."

Anna "When I'm with him I feel beautiful, sexy, happy and yet vulnerable."

Vivien "He was an incredible lover. I think the sex was always the thing.
We became attached to each other based on this amazing physical relationship
that we shared. The situation lasted a long time. I experienced no guilt as
a result of the relationship. My life felt richer for having two lives. My
husband wasn't so interested in sex so it wasn't a big deal to sleep with
another man. I would see him as much as I could."

Camille "My time with my lover was passionate. At first the relationship
was compartmentalized. I was able to handle both. My lover enhanced me so I
enhanced the marriage. What my husband couldn't provide my lover would. I
became complete. I wasn't only sexual but sex played a big part in it. My
lover really listens to me. All our concerns were shared and paid attention
to and it spills over into the sex. With someone tuned into me, it's a
remarkable difference. I hadn't experienced this love, I would believe most
love affairs are really only about sex. But I know how much more it is than

Piaffe "I think of it as a relationship about fulfilling dreams not
fulfilled by my marriage. This lover was terrific, a dreamy kind of man. I'd
never met anyone so exciting and charming. I saw him several times and each
time it had that heat. There was intimacy, great, frequent sex,
companionship, a sharing of thoughts and feelings."

Jane "I began to understand that the affair had occurred because I was
lacking something in my marriage. If someone else fills the void, then that
other relationship works for you. It carried me through a bad time. I
happened to believe that affairs do make marriages bearable.  It was about
sex and fun. He'd come over during the morning and we'd have this hot sex
and passion. I realized that having an affair while you're married is
different. Then the affair is an escape. But if you're not married, that
escape isn't necessary."

Randy "I was definitely in love with my lover. The sex was terrific and I
learned many things, things I'd never learned in twenty years of marriage."

Barbara "The sex was excellent. It was very different than with my husband
and every time we were together we had sex. I had no difficulty juggling two
different lives.  As long as nothing got mixed together, I was fine. I loved
both men. If you have fifteen children you love them all. Why can't you love
all of your men?"

And finally, here is a letter that showed up in a national publication.
Major Mark read it to his students in his course "Building a Better
"I'm a single average looking business man in my mid forties.
During the past three years I've slept with every married woman I have
I meet them in super markets, bookstores, and record shops.
I invite them for coffee, and the rest is easy.
 From these encounters, I have observed the following
1. I've not met a woman whose husband has made love to her properly in the
past six months.
2. Many of these women had never had a multiple orgasm.  Two had never had
orgasms until we went to bed.
3. None of these women experienced any major guilt from these encounters.
4. Most view themselves as neglected, and view our time as luxurious sin.
In the mean time, I've collected a casual harem.
I'm never pushy, they call me.
Can you explain why so many men are such neglectful lovers?"
Signed T.G.

I can highly recommend both of the books "A Passion for More" and "Scoring
with Married Women."  They will give you a much better understanding of
women.  In order to understand women, you must study women.  If you truly
love women, you will find this easy to do.


Magic Juan:
(On Stephanie) A person who needs to be trained to speak on how to get a
woman in one's life likely doesn't really have much to offer to begin with.
You can't show me one single person in our societies who has not been
trained on how to speak to others. Nor can you show me one of those people
who didn't need that training, since we weren't born with it. We were all
trained by the people around us: family, friends, neighbors, school
teachers, whatever. In many cases, many of us have sought better training
-- rather than the random training we got from well-meaning but ignorant
people -- from those who have actually taken the time to pay closer
attention. And quite plainly, if you have trouble with people who want to
be trained on how to speak in order to form better relationships with
women, you are clearly on the wrong mailing list, because that is exactly
the topic of it.


This is my frame. It's along the same lines of Mystery/Sis "Negs/Bratty
little sister". It's something I learned and have been using since Junior
year in college. I never could pin point what I was doing until Mystery/Sis
put labels on it. Now looking back, I can realize what I've been doing and
use it more efficiently in the future. In college after being crushed (and
an AFC) for the last time by this girl, I took my frame from rap songs
(Snoop, B.I.G., Dre, Easy E-). I turned my college girlfriend into a field
experiment. I gave her everything she needed, but on my terms. I actually
reminded myself to be mean to her. I had perfect timing....just as she was
about to get upset that I was hanging out with the boys, drinking too
much....whatever, I would surprise her with something nice, gifts, take her
out, or just tell her something nice. I stopped kissing ass and girls were
falling in love with me. My confidence was through the roof. I now found it
a compliment when girls called me a jerk or an asshole (they would say it
in an half serious way:
HB: are you going to walk me home?
HB: jerk.
CEO: )
A few months ago, I came up with my own frame. It's useful to me, because I
believe you can be a gentleman and not supplicate at the same time. It is
possible to do both. Look at Frank Sinatra. This guy had class, always a
gentleman and never, ever supplicated. He was always in control. Being a
gentleman alone has gotten me noticed, because I am congruent. I hold doors
open for all women, the beauties and the beasts, the young and the old.
It's much more powerful for a girl to see you do an act of kindness
(without something to gain), than if you tell her you're a real gentleman.
It's even more powerful than treating her nice (kissing ass). Once a girl
sees that you're a great guy by the way you treat others (waiters, bus
drivers, pets ...etc.) and that image is conditioned in her mind, then it's
hard for her to think any other way. She'll rationalize the way you treat
her and it will be more of a challenge.  Here's my frame: "Treat her like a
Queen, but remember who's KING". Think about this. Two scenarios: one comes
from a King and one comes from a Joker. Both men are treating a woman like
a Queen. The Queen gets everything she wants, but only one of them can keep
her interest. THE JOKER entertains, he's constantly looking for approval.
He gets her what she wants when she wants, always. He even showers her with
gifts in hopes she'll like him more. He is a "yes" man. He waits until he
is called, and she orders him around. He works around the Queen's schedule.
The Joker also entertains the King. The Joker entertains and the King gets
the benefits.  The King also supplies the Queen with what she needs. The
King has other duties and responsibilities. He has his own schedule. He has
to control his kingdom. He gives the Queen gifts when he wants to. He hires
a joker to entertain her. He exudes power and confidence. She knows from
the start what she is getting into and her role in the relationship. The
King does things to please his Queen, not to seek approval.  Either way a
woman is treated with respect. Both men are true gentlemen (in theory).
It's your choice. Do you want to be a KING or a JOKER?  So "Treat her like
a Queen, But remember who's KING"---- - This frame can also apply to women.
I lose interest in girls who kiss my ass all the time. My ex-girlfriend
would get mad at me and ask me if "we can argue now?"  I would say NO, and
there was no argument. I always tell girls who accuse me of being nice that
"I'm not a nice guy, I do nice things".
PART 2: Below is a list of Negs, Openers, and just plain funny things that
I say while keeping this frame in mind.
CEO originals:
1) I say excuse me "You look almost as good as me tonight"..
then I say "I mean it  I'm not just saying it, I mean it"
2)HB: I went to Harvard
CEO: "what happened, couldn't get into PSU (insert your college)?"
3)HB: I live in Long Island, NY
CEO: Oh my God, we're neighbors
HB: Where do you live?
CEO: Hoboken, NJ
CEO: Yeah, can you believe it. We're only 50 miles apart. If you need a to
borrow a cup of sugar, ask someone else. I don't cook.
4) CEO: Hey, I have a (shirt/skirt/hat) just like that at home (talking a
girl wearing something sexy, obviously feminine)
CEO: I was going to wear it today. That would have been embarrassing. You
would have to go home and change
5) CEO: I think that two months' salary for a ring is too little.
When I get married I'm going to use 3 months' salary. So when I'm ready,
I'm going to quit my job and work at Burger King. But every penny is going
to the ring. I'm going to get her the biggest Diamondelle (which is almost
as rare as glass). If you don't think Diamondelle's shine, you're
mistaken...Her hand will be dragging from the weight of it. All her friends
will be jealous.
6) HB: If a girl is fixing her make-up and has her compact out:
say Hey! And ask to see it>
CEO: Then I'll say "Why do you have a picture of me in your purse". I'll
take it and look at it. Smile, while I'm looking at the reflection and say
"It's a good one. This is a good looking kid."

Steve Martin:
I put girls on a pedestal...High enough to look up their dress.
Johnny Bravo:
Hey, Baby. I know what you're thinking. How did a statue get off its
pedestal? Don't worry, I'm real.
A Friend:
1) I want to know how you look when I'm naked. (then he takes their hand
like he's going to kiss it, but kisses his own hand instead)
2) My friend was looking at pictures and saw an old picture of this girl.
HIM: Who's This?
Former HB: That's me!!!!!
HIM: No it's not, SHE'S HOT.
(This girl did gain about 50 lbs since that picture, but I think it's
hilarious and would make for a good neg.)


I got this article from ... from the "Dating Tips For Women"
section. It is written from the woman's perspective, but I thought it
really hit the nail on the head:
Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a
Heartless Bitch for dumping him." I get letters from self-professed Nice
Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because
THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin
to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea.
Therefore, all mammals live in the sea." If you have one bad relationship
after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it. What's
wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are
hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do
things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for
the simple pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes
you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation
because you actually paid some kind of attention to him. Nice Guys exude
insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are
women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take
advantage of. Users hone-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them
for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many
Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when so often the kind of
woman that get's attracted to them is the lowest form of life...
Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too
clingy, self-abasing, and insecure. Nice Guys go overboard. They bring
roses to a "let's get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her
affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about
romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong,
too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang
around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they
will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date". They are so desperate
to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of
their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her.
We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not
to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them. They cling to her,
and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may
disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble
with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if he learns about the
REAL person inside, she will no longer love him. Nice Guys are always
asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it
puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the
opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one. Nice Guys
rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what
it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might
spell the end of the relationship. Instead of compromising and negotiating,
they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice,
they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her," as if this
somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a
martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner. Nice Guys think that
they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration
as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I
do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a
subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult
person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here." The
Nice Guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of
his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with
jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people
out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we
truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the
feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and
do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no
different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other
people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just
as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out
with someone who was inherently unlovable anyways?" More than loving the
woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of
happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE
has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip! Another mistake Nice
Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women
with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are
"helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him
a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of
accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his
efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results. This
ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is
it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else,
you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for
"love". Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF. You don't
have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself.
You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will
you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship
is possible.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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