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10/7/01 11:31:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time


Update on The David Seminar:
Among the topics David will discuss and present his views on will be:
- Confidence
- How to really get back your ex or to attract that one special girl
- How to pick up strippers
- How to create, manage and keep a "stable" of women simultaneously
- How to have threesomes and multiples
- How to overcome resistance when you are about to close the deal
- How he uses language (he has many unique ideas that you won't learn
through NLP or anywhere else)
- The importance of setting your rules and sticking to them
- How honesty, trust and respect are your golden keys (this is the reframe
to beat all reframes)
and much more.  David will also spend time giving his ideas about how to
solve your individual issues.
This seminar will be held in Montreal on November 16-18, 2001. Cost is $500
U.S. with a $200 U.S. deposit to hold your place (seating is limited and a
sell out is expected). For additional information, email me.


Free Personal Ads:
As I do once in awhile, here are a list of personals sites where you can
answer ads for free.  For some reason it hasn't been clear to some of you
when I have done this in the past -- these are not just sites where you can
place an ad free, browse for free, etc. but here it is free to REPLY to
ads.  Some of these are really only going to apply to local Montreal
people, but I don't have the time at the moment to sort them all out. only)

Here are two sites that I find pretty addictive.  You can reply to some of
the people who's photos appear here if they have it set so that you can do
so.  If you pick someone and they accept your selection on the first one,
then you have to pay to send a note with your email address.  The second
one, if you just register and the person who's photo appears has set her
settings to receive emails, you can send a free email to the person who's
ad you voted on. (This site gave me a huge ego boost this week. You
put your photo on it and people rate you from 1-10.  241 people have rated
me an average of a 9.3, hotter than 92% of the men on the site!)

Hey, how about someone go to this site, check out all the related email
news letters and stuff and let us know which ones are worthwhile?


Cramias sent me info on two sites, one of which was and
the other site was
Both of these sound interesting and if someone gets their products, a
review would be appreciated.


Mark B.:
Ever wonder why rock stars get laid like crazy. Seeing the movie Rock Star
clicked something in my brain I just had to investigate. Here is what I found.
Read the lyrics to Kiss' "Lick it up". Women hear these lyrics and it
drives them fucking crazy. "Don't wanna wait 'til you know me better" -
control and domination. "Life's such a treat and it's time you taste it"
blowjob pattern. "Be good to yourself" imbedded command. "Don't need to
wait for an invitation" - more control and domination. These guys got it.
No wonder they had thousands of women in the careers. Singing about any
other crap surely would not have resulted in the type volumes of pussy they

Kiss' "Lick it Up"
Don't wanna wait 'til you know me better
Let's just be glad for the time together
Life's such a treat and it's time you taste it
There ain't a reason on earth to waste it
It ain't a crime to be good to yourself

Don't wanna wait 'til you know me better
Let's just be glad for the time together
Life's such a treat and it's time you taste it
There ain't a reason on earth to waste it
It ain't a crime to be good to yourself

Lick it up, lick it up, it's only right now
Lick it up, lick it up, ooh yeah
Lick it up, lick it up, come on, come on
Lick it up, lick it up

Don't need to wait for an invitation
You gotta live like you're on vacation
There's something sweet you can't buy with money - lick it up, lick it up
It's all you need, so believe me honey
It ain't a crime to be good to yourelf

Come on - it's only right now (it's only right now)
Ooh yeah (ooh yeah) ooh yeah (ooh yeah), yeah yeah
Chorus repeats out

Here are some snaps from a few Motley Cure songs:
"Another Slice of Your Pie"
Good God, baby, baby blow my fuse - (Blowjob)
When you walk this way
Nineteen, seductive ballerina
So trashy, so trashy
Hey, pretty pretty with the sweet sweet eyes
Order me up another
Slice of your pie- (Your pussy)
"Rattlesnake Shake"
She's got sassy class
Bring you to your knees - (blowjob)
When she shakes her ass
She's a voodoo, voodoo child
Just one look will drive you wild
Slides through the night - (fucking at night)
With a viper's smile

"Without You"
Without you, without you
A sailor lost at sea
Without you, woman
The world comes down on me - (blowjob)
Without you, my hope is small - (as in my penis is small)
Let me be me all along
You let the fires rage inside - (tell her how to feel inside)
Knowing someday I'd grow strong - (get a hard on)
"Sticky Sweet"
Oh, good God, there's a fire
In my pants - (no need to clarify)
Then lightening strikes and she
Laughs that evil laugh

She's so sticky
Sticky sweet

Now, when I've done good
She slaps me on the ass
It takes more than ten seconds
To satisfy this lass

"She Goes Down" - (obvious blowjob)
She said she'd do me no harm
You know she makes me feel good
Just like a bad girl should
Always a lady
I love southern ladies
They just know how to please
It's like connecting the dots
Start at the bottom, lick to the top

She goes down
She goes down
She goes down
Down, down, down


Stephane asked about my :"Hitting On Me Connection Pattern", so here it is
written up a little better: "I was just talking to my friend about getting
hit on. (Note the 'self quotes', I think they give nearly as much a
softener and segue as regular quotes, plus more transference and credit,
I'm going to start using this a lot more.)  I said to her "I can always
tell when someone is hitting on me because there's effort behind it.
 They are just trying too hard
 and it doesn't feel right . But... now, you can
meet someone  who you do connect with . I mean that kind of
instantaneous connection. And when you meet someone like this  and you
connect it just feels natural, doesn't it? Like it was meant to be." And
she said to me, "Yeah, it's like you can feel it and it's so powerful. It's
almost like a beam of light going from me to you, right here"
finger point to touch on her solo plexus (just like Ross says, and it
works)>  "And that's the difference, do you know what I mean?"

(Commenting on: "HB: "Are you serious? I can never tell when you are
serious." Great sign. GS: "I mean, it's rare to meet someone with such a
great outlook on life, such incredible energy, and such a great sense of
humor. But, I really don't know if I'm the kind of person that you could
develop feelings for. I don't know if I'm the kind of person that you would
really want to be with. I don't even know if we could share intense,
intimate moments together. Sure it might be fun finding out, but then I'd
really hate risking this great friendship that we might have by trying to
be something more."):

I really hate this. It's clear that this chick was really into it already,
and that's why it worked, but I think this is pretty weak in any other
situation. You frame it that she wouldn't be interested...much better to go
down the path of, "We have such a good connection. I'd hate to risk that.
Just for the possibility of increasing our enjoyment and pleasure so
much."  Then I'd go down one of two paths depending on the chick, 1) time
distortion with you ending up growing old together and end with a joke
about how you hate the idea of getting wrinkly, or 2) joke about having to
get a restraining order, etc. with her falling madly in love. Maybe our
styles are just different but I prefer a little stronger edge. The fact
that you grabbed the opportunity for patterning is good.

(Commenting on "GS: "Hmm...okay, but you've been warned. Prepare your
defense. Once that line is crossed, things get pretty hot pretty quickly.
So be prepared...
I could put a move on you at any time." A few minutes later I put my hand
on her leg. HB: "Are you putting moves on me?"  GS: "YES...but
you were warned..."):

This is the part I hate the most. You've framed it as her letting you past
her defences. How does that help you? The way you set it up, she loses when
you win. Obviously you're doing a lot right, or else you never would have
gotten this response. I just think it's important to keep her feeling like
she is winning when you get laid.

(Commenting on: Mark B.:   On the topic of confidence.  [snip] But I still
get slightly nervous around a woman when making an approach for the first
time but that feeling quickly goes away and is replaced with a strong
feeling of aggression and confidence. It's almost a feeling of excitement
and thrill of going up to her and talking rather than a trembling fear and

I have the same thing. I like to do what I call a warm up approach. It can
be with any chick (5-10). Thing is I expect it to be a throwaway, as I know
I'll be little nervous and probably not into it fully, but once I make the
approach, I am totally psyched up for a night of fun, even if I crash and burn.

(Commenting on: "MTL_PUA: So how does congruence fit into this? Well,
showing people how you are after you have told them (subtly or otherwise)
will validate what you said. It's basically proof, and that is where I have
gone wrong in certain situations. I did all the groundwork, but I did not
follow-up on it. I am now at the stage where I am trying to make this into
an automatic thing. Talk, then show."):

Great stuff as usual. One other way is to purport to be the exact oposite
of what she wants (or what she thinks she wants). I tell girls I'm really
boring or an asshole or incurably shy all the time (typically when I know
I've demonstrated the opposite. They don't believe me but they like it. It
creates a polarity response. Sometimes I tell them my penis is really small
(you need to get graphic and reach down and grab your crotch when doing
this). Also lay it on thick. Tell her hot chicks are always getting on you,
but you're still a virgin because you are too embarrassed...  (note don't
actually create a visual of your small penis for obvious NLP reasons.)

(Commenting on: "Stephane:  My last GF once asked me if I was using her. I
responded with, "OF COURSE I am!! I am using you for sex. I am using you
for companionship. I am using you for the incredible times that we have
together. And you are using me, too!" That reframed her nicely."):

Word for word one of my favorite reframes. Another one I use is to say "For
what?" and then follow up with something that she isn't good at. Then say
"Look if you don't find yourself really enjoying our time together let's
just stop"  "I think we are, but if you think differently, you
should let me know right now because I don't need to get hurt..." (alter
appropriately to avoid her getting to into you based on 'hurt'.)

(Commenting on: "David Johnson ( NLP & SS):  I
purposely moved to sit beside her, telling her my back was sore and needed
to lean against the books. She smiled, but sort of moved away. I quickly
thought back to what RJ said and moved back also. I was obviously in her
personal space. It didn't seem to get her comfortable though, not sure why."):

Women can smell an agenda a mile away, if you want to sit next to her, sit
next to her. Don't feign a reason, their spider senses go off and they
subconsciously mark you as weak or sneaky.

(Commenting on: "She said, in true female 'Fate' form, 'maybe I will see
you again' (this meant to me that she believed that if it was REALLY MEANT
TO BE, we would meet again.)"):
This is a perfect opportunity for my "I think close."  This is one I've had
awesome luck with. Just say to her. "You know what I think?" She'll
invariably ask. You say, "I think we should meet me for coffee." (insert
what ever close you want, but this is my favorite here in Seattle.)
I don't know why the "I think" works (I think it might be because it
demonstrates your confidence and openness, without supplicating or being
overly aggressive).  I do know that I use it when I feel like I've created
enough attraction that she's interested, but that I don't think I've done
enough to have her fully mentally committed to the close (meaning the
attract phase wasn't enough to make her want me, but she is
This is most useful when you need a quick close.
The other day I used a kiss opener on a fine 9. And then immediately went
for the I think # number close because my buddies were leaving...
NL9: "My friends are taking off, so I'm going to have to get going."
HB: "Oh..."
NL9: "You know what I think?"
HB: "No, what?"
NL9: "I think you should give me your number so I can call you and we can do
all the things we're supposed to do before we kissed."
HB: "OK"

(Commenting on: "Well, she left and I was sitting in the silence of my own
stupidity. I picked myself up and walked out the store. She called again to
me saying 'See you David.'"):

At this point it was too late, but this screams "David, you did it! You did
what was necessary to close... except you forgot to close. Maybe it wasn't
perfect, but it was better than perfect it worked, so next time you do it,
just remember to close.

(Commenting on: "I left feeling somewhat dejected, thinking that even in
the end I should have gone up and said 'Listen, if you are not with someone
that makes you feel totally fulfilled, maybe we owe it to ourselves to get
together later.' But I didn't."):

Too late. There is window of opportunity and you missed it by not acting
early closes quickly. You've already been categorized as maybe next time.
Hard to get out.

(Commenting on: I offered to help her back with them saying 'I feel I owe
you something because you helped me out'. She declined and we went our
separate ways. I thought I might see her later."):

Once again she senses an agenda. One old rule of thumb for not supplicating
that you need to apply to your thinking (it is useful for monitoring
actions): "Would I be doing this if I wasn't hoping, even in the slightest
way, it would indirectly help get her to like me so I might get laid?" If
the answer is no. You need to reevaluate and probably do something else.

(Commenting on: "NightLight9: HBB: "No , I need to know because if it's
just sex then I am going out there and if I meet someone else I will go out
with him and the fucking stops then."  "Me: "If that is the case then I
will now stop the car and you are getting out right now on the street and
you can go to see the movie on your own and I am done with you."):

I didn't say this. I think Mark did.

(Commenting on; "You have no idea how much women want you to state your own
opinion in spite of theirs. There is nothing asshole about it. You are just
being what women need. The fine line is broken when you begin to put down
the other person's view or begin to convince that theirs is wrong rather
than simply expressing your own."):

There are also some very different types of things to disagree about. There
are some things that when you present your opinion, you can't help but
contradict her in a way she will perceive that as a contradiction unless
you reframe because of the nature of the conversation (eg. she says "It
hurts her feelings when someone says something mean to her"). Some things
that just show you have your own opinion (ex. Talking to an HB last week
she said she liked SUV's, and I said I didn't and gave the reasons. She
agreed with me because we were deeply in rapport, but I wasn't looking for
that, I was just expressing my opinion.) Other things are core values and
you may lose points for expressing your opinion (eg. She says "My father
was killed by a drunk driver and I watched him die in the hospital for a
week. I think the drunk driving laws should be a lot tougher).  The lines
of these will vary based on the tone of the conversation and her core
belief system... I really like the fact that you went out and tested this
to the extreme. I've done the same thing, but lately I've been testing
slight variations to see if they have an effect. It's too bad I can't find
a captive audience of 200 HB's to run tests on :-)

(Commenting on; "This is asshole and something I do not do. It's insulting
and turns people off. Expressing your own opinions, even though it's
different from hers but leaves their view in tact maintains respect for
both parties."):

Tone and aggressiveness play a big role in this. Just raising your eyebrows
at the end of a sentence can turn the expression of an idea into a

challenge (this can be good or bad, but you should be aware of it).


(Commenting on: "She said she likes how I am able to stand up to her
and all other guys either insult her and push her around or act meek
and shy - both turnoffs for her and in general. Finding the right balance of
strength yet respect is the key."):

Agreed.  Maturity equals the balance between courage and consideration.

(Commenting on: "Now when I go out all I do is work with this "express my
opinion mindset" and women love it.  I do not have to ask for numbers or
dates as often. They
just seem to happen automatically. "You seem like a great guy. Here is my
number. Call me." No need to say anything more."):

Yes.  Women want a guy that knows what he wants and fearlessly pursues it.
I've always viewed patterns as a sophisticated and fun way of expressing
what I want.

(Commenting on: "Easy big boy. You did not understand what I said. I was
experimenting here, buddy. I am not like this all the time. I decided to be
hardcore for that
night only to see how it works. Obviously it was asshole but I had to see
it's effects."):

I'm glad to see you know the value of respect.  Because your post seemed a
little 'overboard'.  And I call EVERYBODY on it if they are being
disrespectful to women or to
anyone.  I'm just doing my job as a fellow 'decent person'.  And it's
obvious by your
responses here that you ARE respectful of women and that you were JUST
experimenting.  Like I said before, I can certainly appreciate an
experimental attitude.


The answer to all this is don't act like Clark Kent but act like the
evil Superman. (Be like Jay on Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.)


Max: The Art of Seduction», the new book by Robert Greene, author of
The 48 Laws of Power», just came out.
It's available from Amazon right now.
Also: I note that True Romance magazine has a special
"Bad Boys" issue. Looks like good deep background
material for those who can stomach reading such

Cliff's Comment:  The book must be at all major bookstores as I saw it at
Chapters here downtown. (See below for the Amazon link.)


Alpha Male»:
Has anyone read this new book that is out, it is called the "Art of
Seduction" and is by Robert Greene. On Amazon it has some interesting reviews:
"...this book is a must for all students of NLP and SS. I would describe
this work as a  more "down-to-earth" version of Speed Seduction». If you
have thought that Ross Jeffries' material is on to something, but a little
too way out there - then you definitely owe it yourself to buy Greene's book.."
"...the book is well organized and gives a person a good look into what is
seduction, then goes on to explain the eight kinds of seducers and finally
explain the process...after explaining the kinds of seducers he gets down
to the process of seduction. He lays out the 24 laws (processes) of having
a complete seduction. This is the real meat of the whole persuasion
game...this is a must read for anyone involved in the fields of NLP, DHE or
SS. Some people may find it to be immoral or downright offensive to have
such a manual in the market....but like fire you could use this manual
either to cook a good meal or get yourself burnt."

There is this one book that has been talked about on this list, something
about the rules for women, not sure, if anyone has the name and author,
mucho gracias.

Does anyone have a good strategy/pattern to use in this very crazy situation?
I am in a ltr (long term relationship) and quite happy.  It's just that
sometimes you need a little variety and I have had my eyes on this HB 8.5
with killer tits and a really phat ass. Trouble is, she is my ltr's younger
sister and I have had some success but not even close to a
coke.  Why?  Well, 'cuz of the obvious, she knows I am bonking her sis, so
she is very protective, but at the same time wants her happiness. I've
tried loads of stuff on her. She has had a bad time with men and yet she
enjoys sex, I just *know* that! Going back to what I tried: The Trust
pattern, Find That Girl pattern, The Solution pattern and the
Discovery Channel pattern. You could tell from her eyes that we were going
somewhere, but how does one get *there*, there being where there are no
clothes involved?  Also, has anyone ever done this, it's such a dang thrill!

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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