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"To be able to EXPRESS both sides of your personality"

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To be able to EXPRESS both sides of your personality
10/16/01 5:47:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Update on The David Seminar:  David had two private consultations this past
weekend, one in person and one on the phone and there should be some good
comments on those in here shortly.  The seminar will be held November 16-18
here in Montreal and more information is available by emailing me.  Cost is
$500 US with a $200 US deposit.  Early registrations are greatly encouraged.

David will be elaborating on his system to find, meet, attract, bed, and
keep women.

Among the topics David will discuss and present his views on will be:
- Confidence
- How to really get back your ex or to attract that one special girl
- How to pick up strippers
- How to create, manage and keep a "stable" of women simultaneously
- How to have threesomes and multiples
- How to overcome resistance when you are about to close the deal
- How he uses language (he has many unique ideas that you won't learn
through NLP or anywhere else)
- The importance of setting your rules and sticking to them
- How honesty, trust and respect are your golden keys (this is the reframe
to beat all reframes)
and much more. David will also spend time giving his ideas about how to
solve your individual issues.

Free e-zine "Threesome: How To Fulfill Your Favorite Fantasy..." courtesy
of Kenny of Dating-Insider.  Just go to the following address and download it:


I've had the great opportunity to meet David during the dim sum
brunch and I must give David two thumbs up. If you could summarize
his philosophy it would be as Stephane has plainly put it "Having the
Balls" to act on something or to say what's on your mind.  I learned a
lot in that short time frame and suggest that you attend the David
seminar. If listening to David during a brunch can get a guy like me
a blow job in a public place such as the Old Port in Montreal, then
surely You'll get a whole lot more from the seminar. Just my opinion
but let me elaborate with the following happening:

Boy meets HB (Stunning 10 Black Hair, Green eyes 40 D Cup )
with a group of people
Me: talking to others, acting as if I'm ignoring her
Her: Trying to get my attention.
Me: (still ignoring)
Her: (Getting pissed off)
Me: (finally look straight into her baby greens didn't say a word)
Her: Are you gay or something?
Me: (Grabbed her by the crook of the neck pulled her close and kissed
her silly)
Her: (Dazed, she pulls back looks me in the eye and comes in for more
Me: (Tongue springs into action)
Her: (Catches breath and says) Let's go to your place
Me: No, not just now (in a forceful tone), You know that I know what's
best for you (I pulled her hand down to my crotch)
Her: Yeah (shakes head, smiles and licks her lips purring like a
She then proceeded to give me a BJ right there on the spot and then I
took her to my place.

Long story short no patterns, just having balls or Big dickness as
Major Mark calls it. David would say that it has to do with the
importance of setting your rules and sticking to them, same
difference. I did just that, used a little self-hypnosis along the
lines of "this is my world, if you want to be part of it fine, if not
be on your merry way" (Thanks for the line, Major Mark).
Sounds arrogant I know, but the world stops where your skin starts.
Have the attitude, build your world, the world you want, just don't
voice it out loud or you'll sound like an arrogant bastard.
I'm 5'7" I have a spare tire big enough for a monster truck, I'm 39
average looking. She is 5'9" gorgeous, firm, trim and 31 and gives me
all that I need, without patterns or fancy lines.
I asked her why she wanted me, she said it was because she could
sense that I was forceful and that made me so terribly attractive she
would have done anything to be with me. Not once did she mention my
looks, I'm still scratching my head but I won't complain. I get more
attention from her and other women than ever before. In closing,
kudos to David, thanks to Clifford for the introduction thanks to
Major Mark for the hypnosis tools.


Powerhouse Supreme:  Here is the dual personality pattern I talked to you
about. This thing puts the interaction on a whole new
Alex: So, Debbie, what do you value in relationships?
Debbie: I value x and y and z. What about you?
Alex: Well, one of the most important things to me is
to be able to EXPRESS both sides of your personality.
You know, there is this one side of me that is caring
and sensitive and deep, and then there is another part
of me that is cocky and macho and immature. There is a part
of me that says: YOU WANT TO CUDDLE
AND MAKE TENDER LOVE, and then there is also another
part of me that says: YOU WANT TO FUCK LIKE AN
ANIMAL. And that’s ok. Like I
am sure there is a part of you that is mature and
serious, and then there is a part of you that is still
just a child that likes to play. There is a part of
you that is very lady like, then there is probably a
part of you that just wants to, you know, BE A
NAUGHTY LITTLE SLUT. And that’s natural… NOW with me,
I like to be able to LET ALL THOSE SIDES COME OUT.

Here is an age reframe I have used a few times:
Debbie: So how old are you?
Alex: You know what… Fuck how old I am. I think human
interactions aren't based on how old or young people
are, but how well they can connect with each other. I
found age has nothing to do with how WE CONNECT WITH
ONE ANOTHER. (Then you can go into an IC pattern)

The Questions Book I was talking to you about
is called: How Far Will You Go? By Evelyn McFarlane
and James Saywell. It's got some good questions you can
ask a smart woman that builds tremendous rapport.
There are question about life in general, sex,
politics, etc. Not all of them evoke positive
feelings… some evoke negative ones, too. Here are a
few of the questions:
In what way are you least understood?
What makes you unique?
What is the greatest life-forming experience you ever
What is the most meaningful compliment you have ever
What makes you feel like a woman (this one ain't in
the book)
What is the single most important thing you have ever
What are you most under appreciated for?
What is the most sacred thing in your life?
What is the thing that gives you the most joy in the
What is the one thing in life you care most about?
What was the moment in your life when you felt most in
What is the best manifestation of freedom in your
What one experience do you most desire that you haven't yet had?
What is the best thing about your life?

I could go on and on. The book has 500 questions. Not
all of them are great, but the book is worth buying.
You can show it to her and go through it together.
These are questions with which you can answer with
pattern language.


Commenting on: "Sybler (One of the most powerful ways of total confidence
is self-talk. I will try to inform you of some important and powerful
aspects of self talk, and why many persons do not use self-talk
1) Using the word "Don't"
A lot of males, when trying to use self talk, says a phrase like
'Don't think of nervousness when talking to females'
IMPORTANT! DO NOT USE THE WORD DON'T!  The word "don't" isn't fully
recognized by the brain.  In many psychological studies, tests prove
that that phrase would actually be telling your mind directly think
of nervousness when talking to females'. I prefer to say that it's
not out rightly telling the mind that...but masking the message
of 'Think of nervousness when talking to females.' Not using the
word "don't", will greatly help the effect of self talk."):

It's more than just the word DON'T, although Sybler is
definitely on the right track.  The reason you want to pay attention
to negation is simple.  In order to process the sentence,"Don't think
of a purple donkey running down the freeway", you have to think about
the damn donkey in the first place.

Ross teaches this very explicitly in his courses, which he probably
learned in the classic NLP book Frogs Into Princes, and which Bandler
learned from Milton Erickson.  Ross and Bandler also teach how
negation can be USEFUL, especially in dealing with what
we call 'polarity responders'.
(These are people who always do the opposite of what they're told, and
I know that I was like that as a teenager...)

With these people you go,"You
really shouldn't think about what it would feel like if I were to
slide my big, hard cock deep, deep inside you, because you probably
wouldn't want to feel more deeply fucked than you've ever felt
before."  If she's a true polarity responder, she will say,"Yes I
should!"  Wouldn't it be great if they were all like that? *sigh*

But as far as SELF-TALK goes, I once read a book called What to Say
When You Talk to Yourself (And I can't believe that I did).
This book had about 250 pages of things that
you should and shouldn't say to yourself, and not ONE thing about
HOW you should say it!

It doesn't matter what you say to yourself.  If you doubt that,
try saying,"I'm such a failure
and women will never like me"  in the same tonality that Mickey Mouse
uses.  Obviously the HOW is more powerful than the WHAT.  So go ahead
and say to yourself, 'Don't think of nervousness when talking
to females' all you want!  But you don't have to be congruent.  Say
it in the sexiest tonality you can imagine, and the words lose all
of their power.  Actually, if I say, 'Don't think of nervousness when
talking to females' in a really sexy voice, it motivates the hell
out of me!

Commenting on: "(2) Not speaking in the ongoing tense
'I am going to feel entirely confident when I talk to
any HB'
ideal use of self talk; but why not use what I call the
"ongoing tense", which is much more powerful.  Why not say a phrase
like 'Damn, I've already seduced at least 10 HB's this week...nothing
can stop me from seducing at least 3 more by tomorrow'
something like first, the brain is going to say 'who is the
guy trying to fool?' he hasn't already seduced at least 10 HB's!
The secret is...when you say this phrase...say it with utmost
meaning..and actually believe what you are is best to say
it out loud. Say it in a half-cocky manner to yourself as though
another chick would be nothing to seduce. After a while of saying
this to your mind, your brain is going to say 'I guess he has
seduced 10 HB's after all then.'  If you really say it with UTMOST
meaning then you're definitely going to feel a change in your
demeanor towards HB'S and females in general."):

I respectfully, partially disagree.  I know affirmations can be powerful,
but they won't work on everyone because beliefs are going to include visual
images and feelings.  With SOME people, saying the right words in a
'confident' manner WILL be enough to build in a belief,
and they will generalize to the other systems, but it usually
won't be enough, especially if you want to get results quickly.

Besides, why trick yourself into believing that you fucked 10 chycks
if you didn't?  I think it would be alot easier to convince yourself
that you CAN go out and score ten HB's.  Because if you go in and
build the belief that you fucked 10 HB's and you're actually still
a virgin, then you are SCHIZOPHRENIC and the men in white coats will
probably take you away to a place where you will never get the chance to.

Commenting on: "Franky The Tux (I brought up the subject of connections and
asked her if she ever felt an incredible connection with someone she had
recently met.
She surprised me because she said no. That threw me a little bit but I went
ahead with the pattern describing it as my experience. (If any of you guys have
suggestion on how to handle this, let me know."):

I've gotten this also, and it threw me off, too!  Now, I think there could be
one of three things going on here:

First, maybe she's never felt a connection before.  If that's the case,
perhaps she's afraid of being hurt or something dumb like that.  You could
say,"Would you like to feel connected with someone?"  Run if she says no

Second, maybe she just doesn't use the WORD 'connection'.  'Connections'
might not be part of her world model or vocabulary.  Just go,"Well...have
you ever
felt CLOSE to someone?"

Third, she could be lying.  Why would she lie?  Perhaps the question makes
her uncomfortable, in which case you might want to build a little more
rapport with the girl before proceeding.

My typical response to her saying no would look something like this:
"NO?!  You've NEVER EVER felt a connection with another human being?
You POOR THING!  Come here and gimme a hug!  Now, doesn't that feel
better?  Jeeez!  Your mother must've been one COLD lady!"

It's the typical NLP type of response.  When someone goes,"No, I've never
felt close to anyone", an NLPer will usually go,"NEVER?!?!?!?!???????"  :-)
Because ALL generalizations will eventually fall apart (even that one).

Commenting on: ("After some more fluff talk, I
used the Discovery Channel pattern and talked about how people like to feel
excitement and adventure while knowing that they're safe. (I wish I knew how
to anchor that to me, so if you have any suggestions let me know.)"):

For the most part, don't worry about it.  Because you are already always
anchoring anyway.  If you put a girl in a deep DDB trance, then you put
her in a deep DDB trance.

I don't worry about it, because my style of using patterns is very blatant.
There isn't a single doubt in her mind that I'm really talking about US
when I run a 'Discovery Channel'!  Because I run patterns as a TEST to see
if she is responsive enough to hold my interest.  Because if she can't
handle patterns, if she gets all uptight and whatever, then she isn't my
Because if I run a full-on connection pattern and it doesn't affect her....

Anyway, to answer your question, point to yourself when you run the pattern
if you are trying to explicitly connect the dots for her.  When you say,
for example,"Take this ride", point to your cock or your chest (subtly).

Commenting on: "Justin (does anyone on this list 'specialize' in religious
women; I seem to have no trouble making a connection but then don't know
where to draw the line, sexually speaking. This girl is an interesting
case because she claims to be a virgin (I actually believe her: she
won't go out on Fridays because she has church Saturday morning ),
but from day one I never turned the sexuality off and she's still there."):

Aren't they all virgins?  As I like to tell them,"You are still a virgin
because you've never had any STEPHANE!  : )

I have a friend that specializes in church pussy.  And he does very well.
He says that the way to get church pussy into bed is to NEVER TRY.

First, he validates her religious beliefs and congratulates her on being
'strong' and 'disciplined' and ''.  And he let's
her know right off the bat that he will NEVER sleep with her, even if she
BEGS for it. (I love this guy!!!)

So that's it.  This is all he ever does, and all he ever needs to do.
He will, of course, get her hot and horny, and then just get up and walk
away.  After a while, they always give in.

Be careful, because I'm not recommending that you should turn off your
sexuality.  In fact, if you tell her that you respect her wishes and
validate her, you've just given yourself permission to turn the sexuality
(patterns, innuendos, etc) WAY WAY WAY UP!

Hey Ross, how about writing a newsletter called,"How to nail your Church
Lady and turn your Sunday sermon into a wild fuck-fest"?   :-)

Now this is the part where I need to apologize to anyone on this list
that is religious.  I'm sorry.


Mystery Update: I just finished my first 4 day workshop. it's 5 in the
morning and it's been fucking amazing.  Great learning for me as well as my
students. I would say this was a glorious success and when outing reports
come from them, I'm sure you'll be pleased. WOW! Los Angeles fucking rocks.


I overheard an interesting conversation in a pizza place today. Some butt
ugly girl was advising a clueless guy about relationships. Interestingly,
she was a good thinker and very articulate. One of the things she said is if
you ask any woman what she wants in a relationship and she is honest she will
tell you that she wants a strong guy who knows what he wants. She doesn't
want a mush. She doesn't want Mr. Supersensitive. When woman talk about
wanting a sensitive guy what they really mean is someone who is sensitive to
her and her needs and not someone who is sensitive to everything.

I went to a bookstore and asked the
saleswoman, "Where's the self-help
section?" She said if she told me, it
would defeat the purpose

Cliff's Comment:  David says that when a woman says she wants a guy who
knows what he wants, she means she wants a guy who wants her.


Can anyone recommend any books or websites on embedded


Mark B.:
I have been sick for the past two weeks and as a consequence not at all in
the mood to go after women so nothing to report from the field. But
my mind has been active. Two things I would like to throw out at the group.
The first is a question. Virtually all relationship experts claim that we
must not act needy toward a woman. Exactly what does needy mean? And also if
we are asking her to meet with us then is that not acting as if we have a
need? What then is the purpose of her meeting with us if we do not have a
need to be with her? When we ask her out, go for a number, slide our hand
down her pants is that not a sign of a need?
I have a minor degree in statistics and having read a post in  on Prospect Theory stimulated my interest and I had to dig
further. In general terms, the theory states that people will try
to avoid a loss rather than take a risk to gain an opportunity. For example,
a person will take a sure $1 million than go for the possibility of getting
$10 million at the flip of a coin. Translated to our interests when we see an
HB, we tend to think that if we approach her and she shoots us down we lose
something such as pride, confidence, etc. What if we were to reframe the
thought process and think of it this way:
Assume that for every 100 women out there 30% of them have a need and are
open to being with a man like you right now. You just do not know who they
are but they exist and it's up to you to find out which ones by
approaching them. This is where prospect theory comes into place; where you
can think to yourself,  "There is a 30% chance that this woman will be open to
me because she may be very horny/just broke up with BF/unhappy with
relationship/looking for love/anything else you can think of. If I do not
approach her and try my best I may lose the opportunity to find out. What I
have to lose is the possibility of not getting her if I do nothing."
I have a friend who is a master salesman and a great PUA. He assumes that
every person is his client and every woman would sleep with him. It's up to
them to suggest they are not. He goes into every meeting and interaction
assuming victory and places great pain on not taking action because to him
not acting equals lost opportunity. This frame of thinking motivates him
like hell to work and pursue women. He makes well over a million per year
and has some of the world's best looking women at his door.

For anyone serious in learning how to succeed with women in the group
should rent the movie The Tao of Steve. It's about a group of men who
pattern themselves after Steve McQueen and use eastern religious teachings
to score with women. The link is
Some of the teachings of Steve include let go of all your desires, be
excellent in her presence, and withdraw your attention after you give some
to her. But what really struck me as profound in the movie was how the main
character shows through his actions exactly how to be illusive after you
give attention to a woman and get her to chase you. He expresses his
interest in his target and then when she backs off from him he backs off
even further thus causing her to feel that he may permanently withdraw his
attention thus causing her to chase after him. It's interesting to watch
them go back and forth from an insider's point of view.
The other interesting point is how the main character underplays his
motivations while he is with a woman. In one scene she mentions that their
date is going well and he says that it's too early to call it date and they
are just friends hanging out. Perfect - when they accuse you of wanting to
go too far, downplay what you want and back off causing her to chase you
for her fear of losing your interest.
Example - You - "Let's go out" Her - "I am not ready for a relationship"
You - "Who is talking about a relationship, let's just be friends"
You kissing her - her "I am not ready to make love" You - "I am not ready
for that myself, let's just stop even kissing" I have not tried this but I
will to see how it works.
Rent the movie and let me know what you think.


(Commenting on: "9) The website reads as follows and we need someone's
review of this: "Learn how to talk to chicks and get them wet DURING the
conversation. Improve your style! Give yourself a make over, you will be
able to look like a STUD. My Original Proven-to-work, pickup lines. My
Secret Cologne that guaranteed to attract girls like a powerful magnet
(Guaranteed to work every time). How to get the perfect pair of lips
without surgery. Voice Secret - How to make your voice sweet. (this will
turn any woman on). Types of Girls - Detail Explanations on Poor Girls, to
High-Class girls. How to tell which girl is rich, and how to impress a
certain type of girls. Smooth Lines to use in any conversation.";):

Game Recognize Game? Total crap. Waste of the time it took to order.
Wear womens' body spray under your cologne? Use lip revitalizer? Lame Pickup
lines? Buy her a puppy? Please...  I've requested an immediate refund after
reading all 7 fluff-stuffed pages.  Cologne secret? Wear Flowering Herbal
Body Splash  under cologne. Advocates buying a her a
puppy, renting expensive cars to impress.

Cliff's Comment:  I was looking for reviews and after this, this one is now

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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