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"It’s about time you stopped flirting with that girl"

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It’s about time you stopped flirting with that girl
11/10/01 7:58:39 AM Eastern Standard Time


Due to unforeseen personal reasons, the David Seminar has had to be
postponed.  A new date will be announced shortly, and all those who sent in
deposits will be refunded.  Stay tuned, though, there are some very
interesting developments coming from David shortly.


Cliff's Comment:  Here are some dating sites» that I got off the site is a pretty interesting site (Dr. Dennis Neder, who
gets these emails and who has commented here in the past, does a regular
article for them) and it originates here in Montreal.  It is below #400 in
the most visited sites on the internet (they've had something like 53
million page turns) and the average visitor spends about 123 minutes on
their site which is far above the competition, from what I understand.

The comments that follow the addresses are from the Askmen site, and are
not from me. They even rank the sites (note the "10/10" after Doc Love's
Doc Love's System The single man's best
investment.	10/10
Quickie Encounters A new and exciting way
to meet single people like yourself.	8.5/10 Love, romance and relationship
resources	8.5/10
Sexpressions  A new approach to sexuality
education.	8.5/10
Online Love  Free online love connections!	8.0/10
Anything Romantic   Your online guide to
romance and all the affairs of the heart.	8.0/10  Revive your love life!	8.0/10

Dating Related Sites:
Men Are Like Fish  What every woman needs
to know about catching a man.	7.5/10
Lane   Just
walk into the many different lanes and enjoy yourself.	7.0/10


I've been spending some time with David recently.  Last night, I asked him
how many women
he had slept with.  This is what he said:

"I stopped counting at 500.  I had 'stables' (between 3 and 7 girlfriends
simultaneously) from
1984 until 1989.  People ask,"Did you TELL your girlfriends about each
other?"  And that's a
good question.  Now, early on in my life I discovered that women never
believe what you tell
them anyway, so you might as well tell them the truth!  See, woman are
masters of self-deception.
If they ask,"What did you do last night?" and you respond,"I went out with
another girl",  she'll
just say,"Yeah, what did you REALLY do last night?"  The truth shall set
you free!"


(Commenting on:  "Pastor D. Zaster ( Well, had a
great week of
replied in a nasal tone reminiscent of the millionaire's wife on Gilligan's
Island, "You're a stranger, why should I speak to you?" Crash, explode...):
"Because strangers have the best candy."


(Commenting on: "You're a stranger, why should I speak to you?"):

My answer to that question, my friend, has been simple: "because your best
friend in the whole wide world and every lover you've ever had all started
out as strangers." And if she's not married, chances are the person she
will marry is a stranger to her right now. Deeeeeeeep, man.


Adam K.:
(Commenting on:  "Pastor D. Zaster (): an HB15+++.
I approached and started with a fluff opener. She replied in a nasal tone
reminiscent of the
millionaire's wife on Gilligan's Island, "You're a stranger, why should I
speak to you?" Crash, explode, burn... I replied, "Haven't you ever done
something that seemed completely
opposite before?" She just replied, "You're a stranger, I don't know you"
as she turned her back and walked away. Anyway... looking forward to my
next trip to Boston..."):

Uh... how about replying with, "My name is Zaster," and then
pointing out that since she now knows your name, you're no longer a
stranger. And then IMMEDIATELY CHANGE the subject and jump to, "Are you
from D.C.?" If yes, then engage in where her favorite restaurants are. If
no, engage in what she's doing in D.C. and go from there.


Kerry F.:
(Commenting on:  "Matthew A.: (Commenting on: "THE UNKNOWN! (Not reviewed)
HYPNO-TECH Here's another one which I think has been reviewed here in the
past but I
haven't gone through the old emails to check. "Do you Want To Know A
Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman
Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?;):

I got the course ages ago with my buddy and I came to the conclusion that
it was just
another spin-off of RJ's stuff.  The main difference with Dr. Mojo's stuff
is that he described a number of number of Magick and Psychic Seduction
techniques. Now I tried out his techniques for about a week and a half
every day for approximately 15 minutes then I gave up after having no signs
of affect whatsoever. (Matthew, did you find those techniques powerful?)
Also his course never makes much mention of his "Simple, Two Minute
Hypnotic Technique
That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades
Her To Ask YOU Out?"

One thing worth commenting on about the course was his example of the power
of embedded
commands... "I find it very HAND and UPLIFTING, when you can start from
SCRATCH, because your mind NOSE what I'm saying.."
I have tried this and it works every time.. usually just a little rub or
scratch of the
nose... HEHE


(Commenting on: She replied in a nasal tone reminiscent of the
millionaire's wife on Gilligan's Island, "You're a stranger, why should I
speak to you?" Crash, explode, burn... I replied, "Haven't you ever done
something that seemed completely opposite before?" She just replied,
"You're a stranger, I don't know you" as she turned her back and walked

My response would have been, "With that kind of incredibly rude and
childish attitude, why would I want you to? Good bye!"


I just finished reading PIMP, Iceburg Slim's life story (really only until he
was in his early 30's).  It was very interesting. Pimping is the ultimate
form of PU. It isn't the type of PU I'm into, but it's very interesting.
This book is the best reference I've seen. It's also a good read although
at times it can be a downer. I recommend it.

(Commenting on Mark B.: "Therefore the attitude of assuming the
worst outcome is not something that can work for everyone but it can work
for those of us who worry and feel nervous and anxious about meeting women
or dealing with them especially for the first time."):

There is a difference between pondering the worst, preparing for the worst,
and assuming the worst. I find it hard to believe that actually assuming
the worst can work out as well as having a next move prepared - it kind of
implies that you are assuming some success.  I think I tend to be close in
mind set and
style to you, although I think you are probably more attractive and in some
ways more forward than myself (based on you posts). I'm having trouble
to believe that you really assume failure. Maybe this is just semantics,

(Commenting on: "Mark B.: ...but I could never understand or figure out how
to get myself to that non-caring but still caring state. Now I know -
assume the
worst but hope for the best. It's like becoming aware of what works for you
and then living it."):

I find that rehearsing the worst can be a useful technique for eliminating
the fear of failure. "I mean, what's the worst that can happen?" The
problem for so many people is that the idea of rejection is so painful in
and of
itself and to many too painful to accept. Myself, I used to worry about the
results of
the rejection, i.e. who will see me and what will they think, who will she
tell?  In some situations this is actually important at some level. At my
yoga class, I'm relatively conservative because it's quite obvious when you are
talking to anyone and if you make one uncomfortable it will be obvious as
well. This doesn't mean I don't talk to women or that I don't ask them out.
In a bar scene it's loud enough and people are so involved that you don't
have to worry about it. A coffee shop is somewhere in the middle (assuming
multiple hotties). Regardless, do what ever makes you comfortable enough
with 'pain' of rejection to be able to ignore it and just think about the
real strategy.

(Commenting on: "Kerry F.: Here is something I tried for jokes, and I have
found it to be a
very humorousway to cause a HB to think of sex. The only prerequisite is
that you have her in a fun, playful state or she is the type of person who
can take a joke. At there are
some dirty jokes that can have embedded commands added. [snip] Any way you
get the idea, and these little jokes force a person to think of sex, and
allow for the use of embeds. It's very childish, but tons of fun."):

Sample Softener: "Do you like kids? I do, too... They are so innocent...
Except when they're not. You wouldn't believe the riddles my little cousin
was telling me today...

(Commenting on: "Mark B.: (Comments on NightLight9: [snip]) On the other
hand, when I either did not complement her or held back what I wanted to
say or do it rarely worked for me."):

I can buy that. If you are trying to do something that doesn't come natural,
it will look like that until you practice enough to make it look natural.
The obvious side affect is that it becomes natural when it looks natural
(fake it till you make it). If what you do naturally works for you already,
why change it?  The problem is that if complimenting doesn't work for an
AFC, it's been my experience and many others that the way to work through
this is not to keep complimenting until you get it, but to learn to do
other things until you transend to the level of confidence and competence
where compliments begin to become beneficial (OT: that is some of the best
alliterations I have ever written). I think we are pretty much agreeing.


Hanchen Vie Noch Nie (
Vom Feuer Schmeckt es Besser
A buddy had to go out of town so he gave me his invite to a party at a new
club. The music was deafening and the women were beautiful so a-Sarging I
went. I figured it would make up for the dee-zaster of the previous night.
I was like a kid in a candy store... so many choices each more appealing
than the next. I didn't want to be seen going from woman to woman and it
was so crowded and everyone was watching everyone. I took an hour to be
picky and scan the crowd thoroughly... finally I picked this HB8 who looked
like an African-American version of Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island. Maybe
an HB9. She was receptive to my opener. I ran a bunch of arousal
patterns... ending with the one about taking a bath and she got visibly
turned on. She accepted and returned a ton of kino (it helped we had to get
close to hear each other). I asked her favorite food, which was Italian. I
asked, "How wonderful would it feel to picture you and I enjoying the best
Italian you've ever eaten" (which would have been even better if I were
Italian... harrr). She said, "It would probably feel very good... but, I'm
seeing someone." I then segued into borefriend destroyer and she said she
didn't think she should have these feelings with a stranger. Whoops... time
to backtrack to a connection pattern but too late, she was freezing me out.
I just bailed and returned to reconnaissance mode.
I went upstairs to the dance floor but the speakers were so loud my head
was pounding and I was having an Excedrin moment. I stepped outside to
escape the noise and saw one of the sponsors of the party (a local
athlete). Walking over to him, this HB10 saw me, assumed I was going to
talk to her, and started radiating the negs, she even ran a few steps away.
I zipped past her and started talking with the guy, noting her
expression... kind of disappointed. She started inching closer to us and,
when the guy noticed, he said, "Hey, this beautiful young lady knows more
about the club than I do" and he stepped away. I started with some fluff
but it was going over like a lead pipe. I segued to humor and she just said
with a sneer, "I don't care to say anything to you." Well... I had a Ross J
sleazoid comeback ready to fly, but it was like 2 a.m. and I was getting
tired, so I just joked "very nice liquid nitrogen. May I have another?"
This actually got a smile but she forced it off her face, trying to keep
her bee-yotch exterior. I bid her adieu, "excuse me as I go and thaw myself
out" and returned to the bar for one final pass.
At this point a lot of people were leaving together and a lot of guys were
getting phone numbers, so I figured I'd go for broke. There was a young HB7
around 19 or 20 who was hanging by the door. She was eyeballing me and
started primping, putting up her hair and cutting the eye, so I went over
and said, "looks beautiful... but I like it better down." A bit of fluff
talk but mid-way my batteries were like running down near zero and I just
didn't care anymore, so I gulped down the last of my drink and departed.
General observations:
I noticed that the more beautiful the woman, the less receptive she was to
an approach. These typically ignored all approaches and hand-picked a guy.
And, in most cases, they picked the guys who looked like they stepped out
of a low-rider. Us noids in the Armani and Cerruti suits got ignored. So I
had to laugh... the night I should have been dressed to the nines I wore
leather. The night I would have done better in leather I was in suit and tie.
I also noticed that the women who bared the most flesh were more
self-conscious about it. A couple dozen came in with their boobs pushed up
and out of their tops, yet they did the typical "offended" behavior if you
looked and did the drawing of attention (by touching or adjusting) if you
didn't look. Go figure.
I also noticed dresses and pants with slits up to the promised land and
necklines down to the navel. I remember a Discovery Channel show that said
that when women are ovulating their sex drives go up and they wear more
revealing attire. I did attempt a talk with a nearly naked chick coming in
the entrance, but she was also in reconnaissance mode... she gave me a
quick smile with a flash of raised eyebrows, but wouldn't stop to talk to
me or the other five guys trying to get her attention (at least, until she
and her entourage circled the bar a couple times).
Happy ending:
I got home and saw an e-mail from a woman I had written to earlier this
morning. She initially insisted that she would never give her phone number
to an on-line stranger but the embedded NLP must have worked... the e-mail
included her home phone number. So the weekend wasn't a total ferschmoyel.


(Commenting on: "Stephane:  You said that during the wedding you had her in a
strong should have closed her right then and there."):

I totally agree with your observation though it does not apply to my case
per se.  First, here the problem was that I had almost ALL my relatives
there (Grandma, Mom, Uncles and Aunts and even nieces). Having danced for
around 4 hours before that, it was definitely tough to get the right words
out in that environment.

About SS:Well,  I try to follow Mystery's advice as CLOSELY as possible. So
I wasn't really into patterning, but rather more into personality, being
the center of the party, etc.  And the problem which I forgot to mention
last time was that I could NOT close due to lack of time or not knowing
what to say, but because I wanted to convey enough personality to her
ignoring the bf just focusing on what her DEEPEST desires were and linking
them to me besides delinking them from the bf ; ).
Right in the middle of this, my mother calls me and tells me :"It's about
time you stopped flirting with that girl."  I argued with my mom for some
time (that I was just passing time  ; ) only to see some other
girls come and sit with her. I didn't have the energy to enter the whole
group, so I didn't do anything further that day .
This reply also reminds me of two interesting things:
A) The importance of Planning.  I knew before hand the kind of situation I
would be in, and that I would get my chances with the HB's.  But my
overenthusiasm for dancing fucked me up so that later I didn't have enough
energy left for the crucial part.  Moreover, I portrayed myself there as
the grinding dude not someone unique.  I should have had a better game plan.
B) Another thought specifically on: ("Sometimes I think you can learn too
much too soon, and it is overwhelming. So you start second guessing
yourself and analyzing too much. Keep it simple!"):

That was precisely the case with me and out there I was saturated with so
much info that I kinda overloaded my brain with over analysis (Paralysis of
Analysis? ; ). But on the first nite itself something snapped within and I
had it sorted out.  I just forgot all about the whole system of what to say
when. (To use MrSEX4UNYC's words) Instead, I thought like I'm the MAN.
I  tried to get to know what is it that she wants and then give it back to
her both verbally and non verbally. The way I see it, when you are the MAN,
then it's just a matter of time.  Before they get down on you, that is.
Maybe I just wasn't MAN enough ; )


I have been going through SS and other stuff for a while. However I am
having problems visualising. I just can't seem to do it.  I close my eyes
and think of an object or place, at best I get a blurry distorted picture,
or a picture as if you were looking at something in the dark, shining a
spotlight torch onto any part of it at one time but not being able to see
the whole picture. I feel that this is really holding back my learning on
this and other things (for example, I'm also doing Kevin Trudeau's Mega
Memory - full of him saving "vividly, in colour as if you can touch it, see
this, see that", and it's really annoying when you can't!!)
So any advice on learning to/improving my visualising would be really


Gregory Rasputin: I want to tell you at this point is to PLEASE STOP
POSTING THOSE  NICE GUYS VS. JERKS posts. Let me sum it up for one last
time: Nice guys bore girls, jerks hurt girls, but attract certain ones, so
find a happy equilibrium between the two and shut up. : )

Cliff's Comments:  Hopefully we are looking beyond that simplification
here.  I think what we are trying to get to is a deeper understanding of
what works and to avoid what doesn't work and clearly there is something
that works there that needs to be explored.  And because elements of "jerk
behaviour" do work, it's going to play a role.


Girls sit and listen and watch me wide-eyed when I recite patterns. Thank
you, Ross Jeffries for being a geek just like me!
It worked! I have a hot babe of my own now. I found out about Speed
Seduction» about ten months ago, did the work memorising about 6 patterns
and using the 3-second rule. With practice I got calmer talking to HB's.
Finally, this summer, while on vacation at home in Canada, I was walking
into an ice-cream parlor on the beach with my two little nieces and nephew.
A hot babe was sitting there onthe picnic bench with her girlfriends. When
my small relatives and I left the parlor, the HB smiled at me. I said,
"Hi", got a good response and said, "Has anyone ever told you: you are a
shining example of genetic and physiological perfection?" Of course she
laughed and I responded with, "I´m glad you laughed because although you
are truly stunning, I wanted to see the personality behind the beauty
before I introduce myself. My name is Prophet." Then I did the eyes pattern
which was easy because she has beautiful brown eyes. (She later confessed
she would have let me fuck her then if I wanted to!) I no longer question
the power of the right words. Over the next day and night I recited the
natural woman pattern, find your desire, incredible connection,
supernatural, and blammo.
Since then we have become best friends. The connection we have is great,
how like we phone each other at the same time, or arrive at a meeting place
at the same time, or she says something I was just thinking. She has moved
to Germany were I work. She is making my apartment beautiful. I get to show
her off to my friends when we go out. I feel like a giant! Other hot women
come over to me when she is with me and smile at me like never before. Fun
I made some mistakes, though. I told her I got the patterns from the
internet to pick up hot women. She wants to learn them now. I have also
told her that I want to continue talking to other women. Unfortunately, she
is very jealous and doesn't like me telling my patterns to other women. I
can't say that I blame her. So, how do I keep practising my patterns with
her around?

Cliff's Comment:  The problem here is that the patterns are being
distinguished from your regular manner of speaking.  What you should be
aiming for is that they become a part of you, and they just naturally come
out when you speak.  This will keep her fascinated with you and allow you
to continually attract new women (which she will grudgingly accept and
understand because all you are doing is speaking the way you always speak,
and you can't be blamed for that) because it's the way you are.


Maximillian Hell:
(Commenting on: "If she has a picture of him, make her pull it out
and  hold it in her helps when killing him in her head...if she
does not, no biggie "):

This is the part I am curious about MTL_PUA: What do you say about the BF
when you see his pic? It seems you have to make some sort of convo about
it, or she will put it back in her purse, and thus will not have it in hand
when you run the destroyer. Then how much time did you wait before you
begin the destroyer?

MTL_PUA Responds:  I do not wait before running the pattern. I just launch
into it by using the
intro: "You know, you holding that picture out reminds me of my friend
Tracy, blablabla"
Most of the approached women were very receptive and did not pull the
picture away. When they did, I just shrugged and use their hand
instead.  Remember that when you tell the story, what you want to do is
have her imagine her hand (if you do not have a picture) as the BF. The key
to success with this one is when you push her hand away. That hand of hers
should have negative feelings anchored to it.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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