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I’m hungry, I’m going to eat
11/15/01 8:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time

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Ross:  (Commenting on: "For the more mature girls, you don't really need to
tease them. Usually you don't need to go beyond a little bit of play
fighting, and if you tease them too much, they might start taking you
seriously, and actually take offence. So for those girls (the mature ones),
use everything that Ross has to offer them + some good intelligent
conversation. Note how Ross treats his girls like adults, I never once
heard him go into the bratty sister frame. This is mostly because he's
screwing around with mature girls. Do you think that a 17-18 year old chick
will understand half the shit he's spewing? She'll usually go "huh",
because 1) she doesn't care so much to experience the 'wonderful
connections' as she'd rather just have fun and 2) she hasn't been on this
Earth long enough to appreciate what's truly rare, so she cannot appreciate
you ; )."):

You are entirely correct. I agree; and I've been playing with the bratty
little sister frame for the super-young ones, just to see what happens and
they eat it up.  I would NEVER use it on someone out of their teens.  I've
never said this frame doesn't work. I've simply pointed out the type of
person it works on and asked if that was worth the candle.

(Commenting on: "She showed us her boots (they were those really long
boots), and when she accidently hit me I said "Damn it, why do you have to
bring your work boots into the car?" (implying that she was a hoe)"):

Ha ha ha. Work boots. Dude, you are a comic mastermind! HA HA HA! LOL!

(Commenting on: "as soon as you can decide what kind of girl you're dealing
with, you should know whose material to use. If she's a young, fun loving,
immature girl, use Mystery's stuff (and Sisonpyh's somewhat), but if she's
well read, can carry on a very intelligent conversation, and is more
experienced, practice your SS. Because really, can you see Mystery sitting
at a coffee table for 2 hours, discussing existentialism with a philosophy
graduate (no offence to you at all Mys, as I know you're very intelligent,
but I'm saying that this isn't the type of girl you'd go for), and can you
see Ross in a nightclub impressing the 20 year old ladies with his dance
moves? (Again, no offence to you Ross, I'm just saying you wouldn't care so
much for that night life us teenagers love so much ; ) )."):

No offense taken. Your points, however, ARE well taken. Actually, I'm
pretty wild on the dance floor. I just won't go without a young woman with
me as a stamp of social approval! What's a 43 year old guy doing in a dance
club for young people by himself? CHICKEN-HAWK.  However, with a young
lovely on my arm, suddenly I have a backstage pass, so to speak. Thank you,
Lauren. Thank you, Lea. Thank you, Alete. (Ok..Alete is my niece!)

(Commenting on: "You can't say that one system is better then another, or
that one is too simple, or that the other is too complicated. You just have
to know what kind of furniture you're making, to know what tools you need
to use. ; )

Completely correct. My objection has always been those "gurus" who proclaim
that women are "genetically programmed" to respond a certain way, etc. etc.
etc. In other words, those who don't emphasize looking at the individual
person in front of you instead of following a blanket generalization.
Beyond that, this genetic programming crap is sloppy, even wrong science.
Check out www.brucelipton.com.  I've learned that genes don't do anything
by themselves; they have to be activated, and beyond that, genes can be
rewritten as an intelligent response to environment.

(Commenting on: "So what does this have to do with seducing women? Glad you
asked. It's easy to see from this that no one style of fighting is perfect
or the best. Certain styles work better under certain circumstances.
Recently I re-read through Cliffs previous mailings going back thru last
year. So the running arguments of the past about SS, MM, Sis's techniques,
the use of patterns, etc., were fresh in my brain. What occurred to me was
that these major "styles" of PU were like the different styles of martial
arts. Let's say for the purpose of discussion that Ross's SS is like the
hard style of Karate or Tae Kwon Do. He uses the patterns to strike right
at the subconscious mind and desires of his "victim" (not really a victim,
just being congruent with the metaphor I am using). Sis's style is more
soft oriented using his "opponents" weakness (insecurity) and strength
(desire for control) against her. Mystery's could be likened to Ju-Jitsu's
ground grappling techniques, he goes for it in the high pressure, high
distraction club scene and demonstrates social proof and alpha male»
characteristics right in front of the target, sometimes wrestling directly
with her, sometimes ignoring or neg hitting her until he's ready to make
his move. (I've watched my instructor grapple with students, often letting
them have the upper hand for awhile, conserving his strength and waiting
for an opening to exploit while they expend their energy.)"):

I agree with all of this and I appreciate the martial arts metaphor, having
used it myself. You are of course, correct. What is important is finding
what works. I have NEVER said that other approaches have no value. I
wonder, to what extent, the approaches of other "teachers" lack in their
"transmitability"; that is, can they REALLY be pulled off by a student who
does not have that teacher's looks, personality, unique talents, lifestyle?
That's one of my main critiques of Mys and Sis (hey...that rhymes!).  Mys,
for example, for all his correct principles of social proof, disarming
obstacles, demonstrating personality, etc, HIGHLY DEPENDS ON MAGIC TRICKS
TO GET ATTENTION. In fact, I have it on the inside source that he has that
performer persona tied to using magic to get attention in clubs and that
this is key to almost all his approaches.
Sis, for example, is extremely good looking, lives in a giant party
house(or at least he did, rumour is he is now in Vegas with Rick H.),
drives a flashy, late-model car, etc. etc. etc. He is also right on with
his stuff on the bratty little sister frame.
By contrast, I am an ugly,old fart. The only thing I might have going for
me, as far as natural gifts, is that I'm funny. THAT'S IT. Everything else
is something I developed, and if I can do it, so can you.

(Commenting on: "Even within the major PU arts there can be different
"schools" of approaches of applying the technique. For example, Brother
Riker's application of SS to online personals.  The implications for newer
students like myself is that while I may want to master a certain style
like SS I should try as much as possible to "cross train" and at least
learn the basics of the other styles. That would give me the best chance of
success, no matter what situation I find myself in(cafe, party, club,
etc.). That is why though Ross is my main "Sensei" I pay close attention to
what the other masters post here to learn as much as I can about the other
styles."):

As well you should!

(Commenting on: "Cliff floated the idea of pulling together the various
masters and students to discuss there techniques in Montreal. We should all
be enthusiastically supporting this idea. Can you imagine attending an
event with martial arts masters in the various disciplines teaching you
there favorite moves? You would probably feel you could kick any
non-practitioners ass if you had too. Now imagine doing the same thing with
seduction masters and star students. The HB's wouldn't stand a chance! So
Cliff if you are still interested in hosting such an event, count me in. I
will do whatever it takes to be there.
I'm glad that Ross, Sis, and Mystery are not masters of each others styles
as well as their own. They would be getting laid so much they wouldn't have
any time to contribute to this list!"):

Ha ha. You don't know how seminars and huge egos work together. Trust me, I
do. THERE NEEDS TO BE STRICT CONTROLS ON BEHAVIOR.
I'd be open to the idea if I had a day entirely to myself with none of the
other "experts" in attendance. The other rule should be a written agreement
that none of the masters or teachers will make ANY negative comment on the
others' systems, either during official portion of events or off hours,
during breaks, etc. etc etc.

Cliff's Comment:  I absolutely agree that if this conference or seminar
were held that there would have to be certain "rules" that everyone would
agree to.  My idea was that it would be less a teaching seminar as a more
relaxed, social thing -- instead of someone (like Ross) spending a full day
teaching, I thought it might be an idea to have the various "guru's" come
and talk for 1-3 hours each where they basically explain some of their
"better" (or whatever they are willing to share) tips.  The main "control"
would be that as it is somewhat based on these emails, it would be focused
on issues, facts, tactics, etc. and NOT on personalities.  There would be a
conscious effort made to deal with concepts and no negative comments other
than constructive criticism.  I can hear Ross laughing in the back of my
head as I write this thinking to himself ("In your dreams!") but I would
still like to give it a shot.  And while I can see that if someone were to
do a full day that they wouldn't want the other experts to be there, the
idea again comes back to the way this list is done and that is that what
you would present you are presenting to anyone who reads/attends.  Part of
the idea is that (and, again, forgive me if my naivete makes you barf)
there may be something to learn from a non-judgemental exchange of ideas
between the skilled and knowledgeable parties.  Masters, teachers, experts
and guru's reading this could be interested in participating please let me
know.

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James:
I need to get a consensus from the readers here. Those of you may get a kick
out of watching a newly released "B" movie called Shallow Hal. In this movie,
the main character named Hal is this guy who is totally into how a chyck
looks, and has his fair share of strikeouts. He gets dumped by a hottie he
went out with named Jill (played by Susan Ward). As the movie progresses,
Tony Robbins makes an appearance as himself, where he hypnotizes the main
character (Hal) into only seeing the inner beauty of a woman. As a result,
Hal ends up getting really hot and heavy (no pun intended) with a fat chyck,
and an extremely heavy one at that. He is totally smitten by her, and Jill
notices them together and how he is totally into her, so she in turn ends up
wanting Hal again. I have asked about the idea of social proof with other
bros. up in Montreal, and simply having a photo of a hottie in your wallet is
not real social proof, does not count nearly as much as actually having the
chyck on your arm when you go to places. My question here is: Is being seen
in public with a lesser attractive chyck on your arm when you go places just
as good as having a 10+ in terms of social proof? or would you be better off
being seen alone? or would it be better to be seen with a 10?

Cliff's Comment:  From what you wrote above, it seems that the key element
is not as much being seen with a hot chick as it is being seen with a chick
who is totally into you.

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Stephane:
My Criteria for a chyck:
     1. Committed to personal growth
2. Emotional openness
3. Honesty and integrity
4. Mature and responsible
5. High self-esteem
6. Positive attitude towards life
7. Spiritual
8. Extreme sense of humor
9. Sexually adventurous

PHYSICAL
Pretty, nice body, cares about her appearance.  Dresses nicely, not too
much makeup, etc.  Clean and smells good.  Takes care of health, doesn't
eat like a pig!  Works out and is good to her own body.  Pleasant tone of
voice is a must.

EMOTIONAL
Affectionate, warm, smiling most of the time, can demonstrate full
emotional range.  Lets her feelings flow.  Instead of holding on to
negative emotions, she lets them move through her body quickly.  Crying
during sappy movies is a definite plus!  She is self-aware and has control
over her emotions. She doesn't worry she solves the problem.  Able to laugh
at many things, including herself.  She has enough personal strength to be
vulnerable.  She can express how she feels easily.  She can be silly,
child-like.

SOCIAL
Warm and friendly.  Outgoing, within reason.  Courageous and
considerate.  Easily gets along with all kinds of people, regardless of
race, status, etc.  If she flirts with my friends, she is history.

SEXUAL
Bisexual. Sexually adventurous.  Passionate, sensual, sexy and
affectionate.  Enjoys sex, no hang-ups.  Is easily aroused, and takes
responsibility for her own pleasure.
She is a sensitive and skilled lover.  She must be a willing and dedicated
participant in the Steph Blowjob Training Program.

SPIRITUAL
Believes in Karma.  Believes in reincarnation.  Does not fear death, views
death as a graduation.  Would rather sleep in and fuck on a Sunday morning
instead of going to church.

PERSONALITY
This is a girl who can laugh at anything, because feeling good is more
important than feeling righteous.  She mustn't take life or herself too
seriously.  Jealousy and possessiveness are out.  This girl is a pleaser,
she'll do anything for me.

PROFESSIONAL
Works hard, but not too hard.  She can be a cashier, or a doctor, it
doesn't matter as long as she works and doesn't come home and whine about
it all night.  She must be careful with money and credit cards.  She cannot
be a stripper, a lawyer, or a bartender.  She has to be responsible and
logical when it comes to finances, and practicality is a must.  No
shop-a-holics please!

BASIC BELIEFS
She must believe that people are basically good, that she is responsible
for her own happiness, and that sex and love can be separate things.  Has
the ability to look at her own model of the world objectively.

CHILDREN AND MARRIAGE
Believes that relationships can be like a fine wine - they get better with
time.  Understands that being a good parent involves getting out of their
way and letting them make their own mistakes.  Understands that listening
to your children is a higher value than controlling them.

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS TO ASK MYSELF JUST TO BE SURE
1-	  Am I proud of her?
2-	Does she satisfy me sexually?
3-	What am I learning from her?
4-	Does she have her courage and consideration in balance?
5-	Does being with her make my life easier and more enjoyable?
6-	Does she go out of her way to please me for no reason?
7-	Does she take responsibility for her own feelings, communication, and life?
8-	Does being with her feel right?
Do I have the upper-hand in the relationship?

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Mark B.:
(Commenting on: "Everyone on this planet has a different footprint. I still
don't
understand why guys are trying so hard to be unique. Because all I have to
do is SHOW UP! You guys are thinking too much"):

Woody Allen said that 80% of all success is the ability to show up. I
think that is the case most certainly and the key is to go for what you want
while having showed up. The best approach I found is to allow what is inside
you to fully emerge just like being yourself. It's almost like paying
attention to your inner most thoughts and feelings and then letting them out
regardless of whether they are appropriate or not.

(Commenting on: "The most important thing I have ever learned is to stop
caring about what
other people think. Do I ever put my foot in my mouth? You bet! But who
cares, as long as I am having fun and learning. Learning this was easy,
because in order to engage in the activity of caring what they think you
have to do something inside your head. Caring what they think is a verb,
it's a skill. The way I did it was I would stop and see myself through
other people's eyes. That was the main thing that was responsible for 99%
of my hesitation."):

I found the best way is to imagine that whatever you say people will not
take seriously or as a joke. This tends to negate for me the possible
ramifications of whatever I may say to someone. It's an attitude where I
feel that whatever I do, people will be able to take it. My hesitation in the
past was a function of fearing that my actions would offend a woman and put
her in an uncomfortable state. But as I learned that they can take almost
anything you say to them, you no longer have to fear their reaction.
I do not believe you can never really stop to care what people think because
if that was the case then you could easily walk up to the fattest woman you
see on the street and tell her she is a fat slob in her face. But why would
you do that? I think the key is to think of the impact that what you say to
people will have on them - the smaller the impact the less you have to be
concerned about their reaction.
I had my first date with a woman this weekend in about 5 weeks. 5 weeks due
to my mental and emotional state in which I had no desire to date or do any
pursuing. I blew it by forgetting the cardinal rule of keeping control and not
letting her call most of the shots. Sometimes we need to fall on our face to
be reminded of what works and what does not work. Be better next
time........

Question: There is a school of thought that men should only listen to
women's problems and not be solvers of them because women want men to
empathize with them rather than offer solutions because by being a solver
you become a part of the problem. Another school of thought suggests that
we give women leadership, focus and direction which implies giving her
direction and thus becoming a solution provider to her.
So we want to be empathetic yet leaders, focus and solution providers.
I find giving leadership works better even if we risk having her feel not
heard.
If anyone has any strong opinions on this please make them known.

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Jake Hustler:
BREAKTHROUGH!: Guys I don't know if you know about this or not. But if any
of you are familiar with hotmail "messenger", then perhaps you'll discover
that you can actually "ring" another person who is online and "talk" to
them, just like a normal phone conversation, even if they are overseas. For
FREE! There is no charges! This will be so good for practice! We can
actually help each other in voice! My sister talked to her friend in China
for 3 hours and wasn't charged a cent!  What are your thoughts?

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Ciz:
While everyone agrees that chicks should only be sarged consensually, there
is a growing problem in the United States of false rape allegations. The
more girls one has sex with, the more exposure to bogus allegations one
faces. Prosecutorial and police overzealousness (not to mention frame ups),
the prison industry ever so willing to build more and fill their space,
mandatory minimum sentencing, and the fact that the evidentiary standard is
her word against yours, what does an honest and law abiding PUA do to limit
criminal liability exposure to false rape allegations?
Even if her allegations are obviously bogus upon close inspection, mere
probable cause is required in order to charge a case, in which a victimized
defendant can be held on an unreasonable bail only to wait months to
several years for a trial -- tens of thousands of $$$ attorney's fees paid
for by the defendant if he wants bona fide defense representation. And
juries can and do make mistakes -- they are notoriously unreliable.
A jealous boyfriend has many a times forced his girlfriend to file a bogus
rape charge. A "moral" girl gets buyers remorse after having consensual
sex. It's out there in many cases, read your state's appellate reports. The
girl has been banging tons of guys and is a total ho -- doesn't matter due
to the rape shield laws. You have had sex with her before -- inadmissible
as well under the rape shield law. The girl has consensual sex, is
subsequently "counseled," and the next thing you know you're a criminal
defendant. The girl is drinking, picks up you and is actually the one doing
the sarging, and you get charged with a crime. Any one of these things can
happen to anyone here. It's scary.
Is the only answer to videotape the girl notarizing a document agreeing to
consensual sex?

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Gregory Rasputin:
This is a guide to a Speed Seduction» style called GM (Grand Master). Most
SS resources make a slight mention of GM, but they never explain it,
because it doesn't seem complex/intelligent enough. If you look for GM
instructions all you'll find will be just funny pick up lines. I think you
shouldn't use those lines yet, for one main reason: when you carry out that
cocky and funny line, you will make a woman laugh (provided you pull it off
right), but after this line, she will be expecting this funny cocky guy.
The GM pick up line, is a line that's supposed to represent your
personality. You're a straight up, funny, sex loving guy. So, if you're not
what
the line presents you to be, you're gonna disappoint your girl when she
gets to know you.
GM isn't just the funny pick up line. It's a way of talking to people, a
way of living, a
way to lead a relationship, a way to dump a girl. It's a personality, and
it's an attitude.
A GM does everything in an amusing, and cocky way. He's not trying to learn
something about
the girl, or get a deep connection with her, he wants to have fun with her,
and make her laugh.
My friend, who is a great example of GM doesn't even have very creative
pick up lines. He comes up to them, and just asks for sex. The expression
on his face is completely straight.
If you want to practice this, then picture yourself saying "let's go to
work". Say it, with
the unmotivated expression on your face, and the dry monotone voice. And
now, in exactly the
same way say, "Let's have sex over there". His attitude is built on the
foundation of knowing
that women are just objects. They're toys, and are property, hurting them
doesn't matter as
long as it doesn't somehow indirectly hurt him. He dumps women with the
same way he
approaches them. He's funny and cocky, and of course this hurts them.
An example would be a girl he met at the mall, made out with, got her #,
and of course never called. 2 months later she calls him, bitching "why
didn't you call me for so long? who the fuck do you think you are?"  He
replied with that same tone and voice I mentioned earlier, by saying "well
you see, the thing is" and then he hung up. She phoned back screaming, and
he didn't even
flinch, just replied with the same tone "you didn't let me finish. As I've
said before and
will say again" and then he hung up. This was rude, and egocentric, but it
was hilarious!
I'm not saying that you should be doing this, because maybe you're this
totally sweet guy who
can't do that to a girl, but I'm showing this as an example of his
personality. He doesn't
just say the line and is a totally different guy, he is that funny line.
His purpose in life
is to have as much sex as possible, and be funny. Another example of his
attitude is a girl he
was dating a couple of months ago. At a point in the 'relationship' he said
this to her: "when
you're not around me, you can do whatever you want, and whoever you want,
but when you're with me, your pussy is mine". 1) it's funny. Why is it
funny? because he is saying what every guy
thinks. When you tell the truth completely how it is, it's funny. 2) it's
so unbelievably
cocky. He's making the rules, and actually says he owns her pussy, and 3)
it's confident.
He isn't thinking "what if she's offended". He doesn't give a shit, if she
doesn't like how he
thinks she can go to hell. EVERY girl is replaceable.
Now, he's not an asshole to girls. People often confuse being an asshole
with being fun.
First of all, he makes them feel special. An example of that would be when
he tells a girl
on the phone "Oh my God, I missed you so much. See when I walk around I
pretend like you're there. Like, my mind has actually created an image of
you beside me. I'd be like 'come on, Sarah, let's go inside', people would
look strangely at me and say 'uh..man, there's no one there', and I'd just
choose not to hear that and keep talking to you", the girl would always
crack up. Of course she knows he's talking bullshit, but he's not really
trying to pass it off
as the truth, he's just making a joke about how special she is to him.
Wouldn't you feel great
if a girl started jokingly telling you about how she talks to air
pretending like she's talking to
you?
This behaviour is the core of GM. Remember that humor adds effect to
something. It can
make a compliment much more meaningful, makes you look more confident. Do
you think she
would've even cared if he just said "hey I missed you so much, I'm glad I'm
finally talking
to you"? Another example of how he would be sweet to women: the funny thing
is that sometimes he just chooses not to listen to girls when they are
speaking. He says that when they talk he'd make pictures in his head of all
these cool basketball tricks he does. So this one time
I remember he got caught by a girl, and she said "did you hear a single
word of what I just
said?"  He'd blink a couple of times. Have a totally rock-like expression
on his face, and with
a strong but really monotone voice say "I'm sorry my dear, but I couldn't
concentrate on what
you were saying, because your inner beauty inspired me to write a song for
you while you were
talking" and he'd start very slowly, with the same tone singing a
Backstreet Boys song. She
laughed, and I laughed even harder hearing about it. So, of course, this
compliment was
bullshit, and it was obvious everyone knows it's bullshit, because after
all he's singing a
Backstreet Boys song, but it was still funny because he was pretending that
all he said was
true, and of course it was flattering, and the humor increased that effect.
Now this is a very
interesting way of complimenting, because it isn't supplicating, because
after all he is
talking bullshit, but he still is complimenting her. I mean, the words do
come out of his mouth,
and do assume a meaning in the girl's head. Here's one last example of his
humor: this is
actually non-PU related: He put me on hold for too long, and I just said
fuck it, and hung up.
So he calls back and leaves this message with that dry tone: "you've hung
up on me, my friend,
but I do forgive you, so please call me back whenever you feel like
it."  This was so
obviously sarcastic, but it was still funny.
Now I'd also like to cover the little things. Start with an example. Me and
this buddy were
playing ball, and invited a couple of chicks to play with us (we just met
them there). I was
covering an 8 HB, but with the body of a 12, serious. I just couldn't
concentrate on the game.
So I just said with the completely monotone voice "your ass is gonna
distract me through the
whole game". She giggled. What if she didn't? I don't care, I said what was
on my mind, I said
the truth. I wasn't trying to be a funny guy, or a confident guy or
anything. I just said what
was on my mind. I wasn't really rude. I mean, yes, there was sexual
innuendo, but it wasn't
sick in any way. I just said it the way I'd say "I'm hungry, I'm going to
eat", and went on
with the game. I didn't talk more about her ass, or body. It was just that
one comment. After
the game I started talking to her. I showed her what a great guy I am, by
starting a
conversation about where she came from. It was fluff talk, and it was
obvious to both of us
that we were fluffing. But I built my foundation right away with that
comment. Even when we
were fluffing, she knew I'm the kind of guy who's capable of appreciating
her body, and yet I
was showing that I'm completely normal. I didn't compliment/supplicate in
the conversation at
all. I was talking to her the way I'd be talking to a buddy about an
interesting book. About
two hours after that I pinched her ass, and when she looked at me, I looked
back with this
questioning look as if I don't get why she's looking at me like that. She
asked "what was
that?" I said "my hand slipped".
A point about appearance: sometimes I see people walking by and they're a
little
hunched, and walk quickly, almost as if in a hurry. You absolutely cannot
walk this way.
My GM buddy is noticed just by the way he walks. He walks slowly, shoulders
thrown back.
He doesn't just walk, he struts. Imagine the power you'd be walking with if
you were the
King of France walking on a red carpet, made just for you, looking down at
all the little
people. A GM walks as if there's a red carpet layed out just for him.
Another important topic is how the GM treats women's bullshit. One time my
buddy's girl
calls, and at a certain point she starts nagging him. You know how girls
nag, and nag,
and just won't shut the fuck up? What he did was say "hey I'm sorry, can
you hold on a sec",
and he put her on hold. I asked him what was up (I was in the room watching
this), and he
said with a sarcastic dry tone "she needs to cool off a little bit."  He
put her on hold
for 6-7 minutes, for no real reason. Then when he got back, she was
actually a little quieter.
She was still yelling about how he looked the wrong way at some other girl
or something, but
her tone was much more relaxed, and the way she was saying it; she wasn't
bitching, just
bringing up a point. If a girl bullshits him, he doesn't flinch. Like I've
said before, he
absolutely doesn't care, they can EASILY be replaced.

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Caco:
(Commenting on: "Stephane: Who cares what they think. They are just
jealous. Flirting and fucking is your business, not theirs, just don't nail
her right there on the dance floor."):

Precisely.  What I realized later was that they all thought of me as some
sorta flirt who was hitting on the females, but hey! They didn't come and
stop me.  It was only ME who was imagining them not approving of my
actions, as the older people had given me a free hand initially by letting
me chat on with the girl in front of them (no one bothered me with anything
which I had been scared of).  The real OBSTACLE was inside me not inside her.

(Commenting on: "WHO CARES about what she thinks! Want to know her deepest
desires? She wants a man who is funny, romantic, and strong. Want  to 'link
them to you'? Guys always ask me how to do this, and I could never
understand why. Obviously they are being waaaaayyyyy too covert to begin
with."):

I totally agree. I must have reread this "want" a thousand times now, but I
still think about this.  I guess I should be more direct with my
intentions, cuz women can always figure out your interest in them so why HIDE?

(Commenting on: "Everyone on this planet has a different footprint. I still
don't understand why guys are trying so hard to be unique. Because all I
have to do is SHOW UP! You guys are thinking too much."):

A fine point which comes to my mind is what separates beginners like me
from the gurus is that when we enter a place and we survey the scene, the
gurus think "TARGET" and they just go in without hesitation while (me, for
e.g.) I see the guys there and a WARNING bell rings inside
"COMPETITION."  This makes me pretty hesitant and can throw me off my
natural talkative mood. I might also compare myself to them and dis-qualify
myself.  Like, earlier if I saw a handsome guy talking to a female. I would
think that the door was closed on me. Not ANY LONGER.

(Commenting on: "Cliff's Comment: Not everyone can be as unique as you,
Stephane."):
Hey, though I DO agree, but if I get the pussy then who CARES if I'm just
an AVERAGE Joe?

(Commenting on: "Again, you're too concerned with what everybody thinks.
But if you say what's on your mind without filters you won't ever run out
of shit to say, especially if you put yourself in a powerful state before
you go out, and maintain it."):

This is something which has great meaning for me.
I come from a background due to which I had immense problems earlier on in
my life.  As a result, I became a total extrovert but at the same time, I
would be afraid of talking to the hotties in high school simply because of
the Gremlin in my mind: "What if they found out what my background
was?  What if they found out about my past? What if they realized that I
wouldn't fit into their high society mold?"  The list is endless but these
what-ifs almost killed me inside. At the same time, I was an extrovert who
could talk for HOURS without any particular topic and still not make it
boring.
After finding ASF and then Cliff's list, another gremlin appeared."What if
this sounds like a jerk? What if she views this as being supplicating? What
if this conveys a sense of being weak?" Another set of self limiting
beliefs has arisen to replace the old one, but the hesitation remains.
Although I do break out of it every now and then.  But this hesitation
which came out of analysis of where my actions cannot go is also due to my
spending too much time on-line be it personals, chatting, or even reading
ASF.  It's time for me to figure out what I want and go out there and then
IN RETROSPECT figure out what conveyed what.  Doing this while talking
fucks my game.With my vacations coming up soon, it's time for a sabbatical
from the net and time for some LIVE action. Just ME out there without any
extra mental baggage or hang ups.

(Commenting on: "Who CARES what she wants? FORGET what she thinks! Do you
honestly think that an 18-22 year-old little girl knows what is good for
her?! PUH-LEEZE! Ross said something that really stuck with me. The most
powerful word you can use on a woman is the word NO."):

Yeah, one of the good things I have started doing with women recently is
telling them I have a life of my own separate from them.  Earlier, I would
go out of my way to be with them, meet them, blah blah...but now the more I
respect my time .. the more they respect me.

(Commenting on: "[snip]> YOUR values. The one's I learned to say are
Honesty, Trust, and Respect (in that order)..."):
Honesty is something which comes through a lot in your posts.  Is this what
you would call total congruence?

(Commenting on: "If you want to see clear, focused images, you need to add
in the dimension of feelings and sound. For example, picture a blender in
your mind. Now turn on the blender and hear it VVVVVVVVVVV!! See? Now
physically put your hands out and feel the blender as it rumbles and shakes
like crazy."):

Agreed.  What I think also goes on is that maybe for some people who are
not too visual, a plain picture not involving the other senses will not
work at all.  They need to put in elements like sound and smell to make it
more complete and more effective for them.

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cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.

NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:

RECOMMENDED:

One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.

NOT REVIEWED YET:

Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):

 

[all words] [any words]

INFORMATION ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ARCHIVE:
This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***[email protected]***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting http://www.seduction.com/.  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at http://www.fastseduction.com/cliff/.

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

DISCLAIMERS:
This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the fastseduction.com webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of fastseduction.com.  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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