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Beautiful, fun women with Jabba the Hut look alikes
12/10/01 9:54:19 AM Eastern Standard Time


Cliff's Comment:
Two nights ago I was out with a few friends and we ended up at this
club.  One of them starts talking to this very attractive woman and I was
with him and I got introduced.  He suddenly left me with her and I was
talking with her when she asks me if I am single.  I tell her yes and she
tells me that she's been married for 9 years.  After that, I talk to her a
couple of minutes and then leave and join my friend (in case you don't
know, I am not into married women).  While with him, I tell him that she's
married (which makes no difference to him) and I told him Major Mark's
famous question that he says he has asked probably 10,000 women (who he had
seen for hypnotherapy in his clinic)  "If you could have a wild, passionate
sexual affair with someone you were attracted to that you knew would not
affect your primary relationship, would you do it?"  Mark says that he
hasn't had any of them say no (although I have personally had a few say no
that I asked a long time ago), and my friend thought this was brilliant so
he went over and asked her.  She said she would, answering him without a
moment's hesitation.  Nothing ended up happening (she was there with her
company attending the annual Xmas party, so it isn't surprising, on
reflection, that she wouldn't want any of her co-workers to see her acting
slutty) but it got me thinking.  It is a well known old adage that "a man
is free when he's single and a woman is free when she's married."  What
also occurred to me, in relation to my own experience is how men get their
fulfillment from work and when that is going well have an easier time to
focus on women.  It is said, however, that how women get their fulfillment
through having children and family.  Put all this together and once you
have a woman who has her children and a settled home life, does this mean
that at that point she feels free and is most likely to indulge in
extra-marital activities?  If we can put away the politically correct
response that this probably immediately engenders, it seems to me to be a
natural» progression.  What do you think?


(Commenting on Stephane: I used to be into Virgin Mary's. Now I want my
horses to be trained.)
Okay, can you back that statement up? What are the relative advantages and
disadvantages of a beautiful young horse that's easy to train and eager to
please compared to one that's been around and knows the whole race course?

Stephane's reply: It's easier to stick your dick in her ass if she is


(Commenting on NB: What you are saying makes no sense to me. When was the
last time a woman said "He is so fat and ugly but I feel so good around him
that I just want to
jump his bones every time I see him.")

They never say that. But here is the genius of chick logic. Instead, they
convince themselves that he's good-looking. They say, "He's so cute and
sexy that I just want to jump his bones..." This may be the same fat and
ugly guy, but he's convinced them (and they've convinced themselves) that
he is sexual and desirable.

(Commenting on: "MB: Can you honestly say that when a woman meets you for
the first time for a few minutes and has no attraction whatsoever you can
keep her engaged long
enough to develop an emotional connection and that would be enough? NO
women I have ever met has admitted that she slept with a guy she was not at
least a bit attracted to in some way as long as she was sober."):

This is a defeatist mind set. A lot of women sleep with guys they aren't
attracted to AT FIRST. But over time (be it ten minutes or two months),
they can become attracted to that guy. How? They call it magic, chemistry,
whatever. But you and I know what it really is...
Furthermore, it sounds like you depend too much on alcohol as a crutch.
Alcohol just gives a lot of women an excuse to do what they already want to
do deep inside. You can give them that excuse without alcohol.

(Commenting On: "There was someone who posted recently who said he was at a
club and all the hottest women went home with men of their choosing at the
end of the night. Do you think that was a result of them developing a deep
emotional connection at the club? Sorry to burst your bubble but all things
being equal the more attractive guy will get laid more often than the less
attractive guy if they used the same techniques equally well. But at the
same time you do need to address a woman's needs emotionally to keep her
I suggest you get some more real life experience as opposed to what you get
from books and courses."):

Again, I see your point here, and overall you are right. But it is framed
in a self-defeating attitude about looks. Yes, women can be into looks and
giggle over attractive guys. But at the same time, the guy who looks more
interesting, or more dangerous, or more exciting can win out. And we are
only talking about first impressions. We've been through this a million
times here. So try thinking about it this way: at the end of the night, the
women go home not with the guys who are the best looking, but with the guys
who are the least boring. (Plus, who says women go home with the men "of
their choosing." That's what I used to think. I choose women now, and if I
can let them THINK that they chose me, all the better.)


Halbster (Commenting on: "Sumfuka: Where is a good place to meet wings
besides that push board or whatever. I mean where do cool twenty something
dudes hang out besides bars and work? I am 26."):

Go to New Age groups, meditation groups. The women are highly suggestible,
often good looking, and the ratio is great. I love shoe stores. I think the
only thing a women enjoys more than an orgasm is a shoegasm : )  Yoga,
and gyrotonic classes are great. Organic restaurants. Conventions are
great. Those in NY City should get the schedule from the Javitz Center. I
especially like fitness conventions and seminars for personal trainers. My
favorite places include book stores and gyms because that is where I can
meet the types of women that I like.
A good tactic is to ASK where you're at. I like to go to trendy hotels,
restaurants and bars in an area and ask where the hot spots are and what the
hot activities are. Play tourist, even if you're in your home
town...especially in your hometown. Ask a woman or couple (if the woman
looks like the type you'd like to meet) where to hang out in this town. Get
multiple suggestions from them. Use the concierge at a hotel.


Joseph: (Commenting on: Mark B. commenting on: "Joseph: It's been a long
time since someone with so many limiting beliefs as this has posted on this
list. I just had to say something."
MB: When I hear guys make comments like this I laugh because I know that
your opinions are based on what you read and heard about and not real life
and real world experience."):

I was commenting about your attitude about rejection. I don't get rejected,
in the real world, but sometimes a woman puts me in a category or "dating
frame" because she is ignorant of the opportunity she is missing. Either
she has the wool over her eyes, or she has bad taste. Either way, she is
the one missing out, because 99.99% of the men on this earth can't do what
I can do with women. So they get stuck with a man who doesn't have the
power to give them an orgasm by anchoring it and giving it to them anytime
they want with just a touch.
Who is missing out more? Me or her? There are plenty of other women who are
smart enough to see the opportunity and take it when it is offered.

In my real world experience I agree that if you hide your intent, you get
shot down. Anytime I have tried to "hook up" with a woman on some other
pretext besides getting to know her, I have failed. However, I would be
being very dishonest if I used your approach.
I guess you can tell just by looking at a woman that you want to spend
"passionate nights" with her. I can't. What if she can't string three words
together to make a sentence? What if she is frigid? What if she has no
sense of humor and brings everyone around her down with her poor energy?
I am not being indirect when using SS. I let a woman know she is attractive
on the walk-up by a sincere compliment, but MY intent is to find out
whether she is the kind of person I'd like to get to know better. I don't
know I'm going to want to fuck her until we've talked.

(Commenting on: "I think this whole post shows Mark's belief that WOMEN are
the prize and not the PUA. I wonder if you have studied any seduction
techniques whatsoever or are you just making this up?"
MB: Yes, to me women are the prize. And why not? Unless you are a model,
wealthy beyond belief, or a celebrity you will have to work to get her."):

Or if you had more fully learned the SS tapes you bought and learned the
techniques, you would be the one who can make women hallucinate and have
orgasms just by talking to you. Then you would be much more valuable than a
rock star or millionaire. Even if you didn't show your intent and happen to
just do it for fun with a couple chicks who you were talking with. Then
they would be telling their friends and you would be the guy who sends
women into states of ecstasy just by talking.

(Commenting on"...bought SS (ask Ross), Double Your Dating», & Doc Love's
"The System." I keep in touch with Dennis Neder almost daily and read his
book Being a Man in a Woman's World, as well as How to Succeed with Women
by Louis and Copeland and the one by Anthony Badalamenti as well as How to
Make Anyone Fall in Love with You (Leill Loundes), Secrets of Seduction,
Dating in the 90's and others. I check and
everyday and have about 7 years of experience and about 100 women under my
belt. So there. But it comes down to being direct, open and realizing that
you cannot be everything to everyone and that is fine."):

I have studied most of what you mentioned as well and I look back and laugh
at almost everything but the SS and Sis's stuff. Those stupid "dating
books" kept me from getting laid quite a few times. Sis's stuff isn't
nearly as powerful, but it gives some great ideas about being funny and
having a fun time with teasing people harmlessly.

(Commenting on: "When I walk up to a woman, I am not asking her for
anything. I am having a friendly conversation, like I would with a man. If
I walk up to a man and ask for the time and he says, "Fuck off, asshole,"
did I get rejected or did I just find out that this is an asshole who I
don't want to get to know?"
MB: You were rejected and you found out he was an asshole. Let's stop
kidding ourselves. But it was mostly his problem due to his bad attitude
and not yours."):

Precisely. Perhaps our definitions of rejection are different. In my world,
to get rejected you have to "try out for something." You know, like a job
application or a position on a sports team. I never try out for positions
as HB's lovers or boyfriends. However, I do give them a chance to fill out
an application themselves. If they don't want to take it, I don't consider
that I'm being rejected.  If I thought of it like that, then I guess I
would think that every American who isn't attending Harvard has rejected
Harvard's offer to accept students. After all, they DID make the
applications available.

(Commenting on: "If an HB is going to get me attracted to her, she will
have to show me some serious personality because looks aren't enough for me.
MB: Looks do matter to me as well as her personality. I would rather though
sleep with a HB10 with a poor attitude than a HB7 with a great one -
unfair? Maybe. Do I care? No."):

Well me too. I usually only give "applications" to HB 9's and 10's. Doesn't
mean they'll pass.

(Commenting on: "If you walk up to what you call an HB10 and try an opener
on her, and she's got a 20 IQ, and can't understand what you're asking, do
you still get rejected?
MB: Well, what if you walk up to a hot babe and she has an IQ of 31.264?
You say hello and she walks off but you chase her and tell her you have an
IQ of 124. She stops and chats and you go for her number but she takes
yours. She says she is busy and has a boyfriend and says she does not have
time but smiles then runs off and says she will call you - did you get
What nonsense and who cares? Bottom lines is it went nowhere.

Yeah I like that. "It went nowhere." "We didn't connect." Seems alot better
attitude than saying "She rejected me."

(Commenting on: "One of Ross's main teachings is that an SSer never gets
rejected, he just finds out whether a women has good taste. It might seem
arrogant, but it is the truth. If a woman is not doing anything, a man
comes up to talk to her with a friendly disposition, and she acts like a
bitch...then he walks away. He has rejected her because she is a close
minded bitch, and therefore there is no point in talking to her. She fucked
herself up because of her decadent, self-centered attitude.
MB: To me that is the wrong attitude to live with. How do you know she lost
out? Good taste in what? You? Maybe you are not her type..."):

That is a socially programmed meme that has been put into her head. People
are individuals, not types. If she could step outside of her box, she might
be able to find something more fulfilling than "her type."
If a woman has a type, but no boyfriend, then she has obviously chosen the
wrong type. Of course, they keep going after that type even when it doesn't
fulfill them because humans are creatures of habit. A good PUA can break
her outta that.

(Commenting on: "or she does not like your hair..."):

Well, then she just needs to stick around to hear the "Looking vs. Seeing
Pattern." If she doesn't, no sweat, let her stick to "her type" and wait
years between orgasms as the majority of women do.
What truly fulfills women is her "type" of seduction, not her "type" of
man. Ross teaches guys how to elicit her perfect seduction, and then put it
into use. Sometimes we have to show them that this is true, cuz they
usually don't know.

(Commenting on: "...or she has a boyfriend or is not into men and being
with you would not serve her purpose at the moment."):

Cool, then we can be friends...unless of course her boyfriend is only
fulfilling a role. After all, my intent wasn't to fuck her, it was to find
out if she was the kind of person I'd like to get to know better.

(Commenting on: "Perhaps being with you would set her back in her mind."):

Then it's my job to change her mind and show her the error of her ways, if
I choose to accept her "application."

(Commenting on: "You are not the answer to every woman's wish and desire as
you might want to believe, only to some women. Ross wants you to imbed that
into your head in order to make you feel better about yourself but it does
not address the reality that you are not the answer to every woman's wish
and neither am I. The moment you accept that you can feel better about
being rejected is the moment when you stop taking it personally."):

But that's my whole point. If I were applying for a job, and I did my very
best, but someone right next to me got the job instead, I'd feel defeated,
But if I were just talking to the owner to have fun, and mention that I'd
like to work in a place like this, then he might not offer me a job for
many reasons, not just because I'm not worthy. Hell, like you said, she
might not be accepting applications, so how can you get rejected if there's
no job to apply for?

(Commenting on: "...In fact, I believe that it's better to assume you are
not the answer to every woman's needs, only a select few. This is the truth
and when things do not go your way it's easier to accept that you were not
what she was looking for."):

It's easier for me to look back and see how I didn't present the
opportunity in the correct way to her. Then I learn something from it.

(Commenting on: "Your comment about Brad Pitt shows that you could know
more about women and their attraction process. If Brad Pitt had the
limiting beliefs that you had, then he might not be getting laid too much
himself. Women aren't dependent upon physical looks for attraction the way
men are.
MB: What you are saying makes no sense to me. When was the last time a
woman said "He is so fat and ugly but I feel so good around him that I just
want to jump his bones every time I see him." To me it's a package of the
physical as well as the emotional just like you would not sleep with a HB10
if she was a total bitch."):

But haven't you seen beautiful, fun women with Jabba the Hut look alikes? I
have. I'm sure the fat didn't attract them. It must have been something

(Commenting on: "...guy in the office has a brother who comes to visit him
once a month who looks like Alec Baldwin. Whenever he comes in all the
women here, about 6 of them all cream their pants and all admit they would
sleep with him right away. He does not validate their feelings but just
looks hot and they want him."):

Yes, I know a few guys like that. However, there are many women who won't
sleep with guys who are so attractive because he doesn't realize his own
attractiveness and kisses ass when he meets a girl he really likes.
If Brad started developed a crush on Penelope Cruz and acted silly over
her, supplicating and kissing ass, he might not get that pussy.

(Commenting on: "They are attracted first by emotions, not body parts. If I
walk up to an ugly wart hog chick, and tell her she has a nice purse, and
she acts like a bitch, would you say that I got rejected? I wasn't
requesting anything, just making an observation. When I walk away, I have
rejected her for being a closed minded sheep.
MB: Can you honestly say that when a woman meets you for the first time for
a few minutes and has no attraction whatsoever you can keep her engaged
long enough to develop an emotional connection and that would be enough?"):

Well, I'm no master. I hope to be able to one day. I think that if a woman
is turned off by you on the initial approach, it's pretty tuff to install
attraction. But if she's just neutral, then you can install it if you're
good enough. Unless you smell or something, you're usually at least going
to be neutral in her eyes. Unless of course she is a snob, in which case
who wants her anyway?

(Commenting on: "NO women I have ever met has admitted that she slept with
a guy she was not at least a bit attracted to in some way as long as she
was sober. What if you say to her "I am great at validating your emotional
needs so date me."):

Well I try my best not to date, but sometimes they seem to put me in that
frame, and that's when I actually do "strike out"; if I let them put me
there it's because of my own lack of skills.

(Commenting on: "Here this is how I can make you feel" - nonsense. There
was someone who posted recently who said he was at a club and all the
hottest women went home with men of their choosing at the end of the night.
Do you think that was a result of them developing a deep emotional
connection at the club?"):

I think that no one gave them a deep connection at the club, so they
settled. Doesn't necessarily need to be emotional- the experience needed
depends upon the woman.

(Commenting on: "They are attracted by the emotions they feel as a result
of them feeling good about being attracted to you. Sorry to burst your
bubble but all things being equal the more attractive guy will get laid
more often than the less attractive guy if they used the same techniques
equally well."):

That's probably true unless the girl has deservedness issues or believes
the guy must be a player cuz he's way too fine to actually want something
more than sex. Or if she sees the confidence in the hot guy as arrogance
but sees the ugly guy's confidence as strength. There are thousands of

(Commenting on: "But at the same time you do need to address a woman's
needs emotionally to keep her around. I suggest you get some more real life
experience as opposed to what you get from books and courses."):

Well, I'm 29 years old and I've spent alot more time in my life talking,
dating, connecting with, and meeting with women than reading about them.
What's really great, though, is being able to post here and on the SS list
about my failures in real life. Then I get good feedback about what I did
wrong, so that I won't do it again.


Mark B.:
(Commenting on: "TGB Commenting on: "Mark B: P.S. I got to give you brownie
points for
P.S.S. Where to you want to meet for lunch?
RP" See, she did not hide or get upset or try to bite my head off or take
great offence to what I said but actually appreciated the offer....."):
She is in a situation of accumulating force for future fights with her
husband, I believe. You just got some brownie points. Can you spell
b-r-o-w-n-i-e p-o-i-n-t?
P.S.: Do you know her husband? Does she have a phone line........."):
Comments on above:
She is a friend of 12 years. We have never been romantic but we worked
for about 7 years while I was in high school and then in University and
kept in
touch after. She is not yet married but will chain herself to her current
fiancé next summer. By brownie points do you mean "the brown point" - maybe
she is into anal? Do you think this was her implicit way of telling me
something? Perhaps. I think that when I ask her in person she will have a
different response. I have her cell number as well as her private e-mail
address. She is 25, 5'11", blonde, who used to model in her teenage years.
I am seeing her on the 14 of Dec for lunch, let's see what happens.


Maximillian Hell: (Commenting on: "MB: It's extremely simple. I say "Hello.
My name is
Mark. I could not help but notice you. I think you are stunning." I get her
response and then I say "I wanted to let you know that you are hot, I find
you attractive and it would be great if we had a chance to get to know each
other for the possibility of having great times together and perhaps many
nights filled with passion." That's it. Then she will say "I have a
boyfriend," " I am married...." [snip]"):

Are you running BF and husbore destroyers at this point? If so, what kind?

(Commenting on: "NightLight9 commenting on Mark B.'s comments on
tanning. I agree that tanning is a great technique. It makes you LOOK
healthier with a better complexion and more rugged. (worked for JFK...) It
works just as well for women. Don't over do it, but I think it's a great

Guys: You gotta think long term. Sure tans look great--but there is no such
thing as a healthy tan. Sure JFK and Cary Grant could get away with it back
in the day, we had an ozone layer back then. You should be wearing
sunscreen everyday, even in winter. This year some sun damage showed up on
my cheek, and it looks fucking gross to me. (My dermatologist says that
it doesn't look so bad: "Max you have so little sun damage, your friends
are going to be jealous of you for decades.") I am an insomniac
bookworm/barfly who rarely sees the light of day. In my early 20's I knew
an HB10 who also happened to be a genius. I thought she was weird for
wearing sunscreen every day, even in the winter (and this is in the
ever-cloudy Pacific
Northwest!) Now I realize that she was even smarter than I thought.
Neutrogena has a great sunscreen in stick form: its almost completely
invisible. Don't just think skin cancer, it'll slow down other signs of
aging as well.

Cliff's Comment:  I dated a stripper last year who said that a guy with a
tan was a huge attraction.  Those who know me know I am Mr. Pale and stay
out of the sun like poison (it is the number one cause of making people
look older) so while I appreciated the advice, the trade off isn't worth it
to me.


(Commenting on:  NightLight9: OK more on (near) kiss openers. I did some
more work on this weekend hanging with MTL_PUA. I would guess I kissed
about 15 girls in the 4 days we hung out. Quite a few with only a sentence
intro. Still not quite a kiss opener (which I and MTL_PUA have done). These
were in bars and in the street after the bars let out. MTL_PUA kind of
helped me figure out the structure.
Walk up with a big smile. Invade her space. Talk slowly and confidently
Keep invading her space until you are close enough to put your arms around
her. If they look you in the eye, it's over. Lean in.  Pick her up off the
ground.  Turn her a little in the air.  Put her down.  Kiss her...
The talking part doesn't matter too much about what, but be very sexual in
your tone and don't use 'lines'. You are making a connection, but the
connection is non-verbal. The talking is more just an excuse for the
physical communication going on underneath.
The picking up off the ground is important, I don't do it every time, but
more often than not and some situations I believe it's required (thanks
MTL_PUA for picking up on this and field testing it, BTW).  My theory is
that doing this causes her to see you as very masculine and breaks the
touching barrier in a less sexual way than the direct kiss. (Note I think
that in some case you could even come out and say you have beautiful
breasts and touch them after this with no kiss, but I haven't field tested
this since I
like kissing so much and I know it will fail more than kissing which has
never failed after I've picked them up).
Two examples (that have some talking because otherwise it reads just like
what I wrote above).
1) Walk up to a girl in the street.
NL9 In fake French/Italian accent "Have you seen Thomas?" (accent is
important) (I call this my "Have you seen Thomas opener")
HBInnocent No
NL9 He was right here...
else, this misdirection takes some of the pressure of my approach off>
HBInnocent Really...
NL9 Uh, huh, but I don't see him now.
watching> What kind of pizza is that?
HBInnocent It's from over there.
NL9 Looks good.
HBInnocent Here have some.

NL9 I wonder where he is. That's good pizza.
continue natural interaction...>

HBInnocent What happened to your accent?
NL9 Which one?

shirt and rubs back>
Kiss her again"):

Cliff's Comment:  On your comment about NightLight9's kiss openers, I have
met NightLight9 and a few other guys who do this and, believe it or not, it
is not bullshit.  Even Rick H. wrote about doing this sometime ago and Ross
has done it himself.  It actually says all the right things and the women
think this is incredibly romantic.  But I am glad you made the comment
because I am sure there are others out there thinking the same thing and
just didn't say anything.


Rodeo Pattern Redux':
Clifford, on Ross' request...this pattern was initially published three
years ago and was originally designed around riding a bull, but I found
after a time that women can't relate to this experience and I never got the
maximum effect I was looking for. I still use this imagery to get into
state, but I've switched the emphasis from bulls to horses. Now, living in
the South you'd be hard pressed to find a woman down here that doesn't
absolutely love these animals. In fact, I know several girls that pay up to
$20K/yr for boarding and training of their horses. And if you were to
attend the Walking Horse Championships in my hometown you would see a
number of celebrities in attendance including the likes of Kim Bassinger
and Julia Roberts....get it? Anyway, enough setup but this is a good
example of a pattern you're passionate about that has evolved and improved
out of mistakes and abject failure. I also learned that a lot of women were
concerned about the safety element associated with these events, but not
for the riders, they're concerned about the goddamn bulls and horses that
are trying their best to KILL the riders! Anyway, you don't have to be a
cowboy to use this and I never make reference to actually having had the
experience but you could introduce it like.....
"You know, I was watching TV with my friend Lisa last week and she was
flipping channels and she kept coming back to this rodeo program. They were
having this bareback bronc event and after we watched a few minutes I
noticed Lisa was becoming extremely turned on just watching these guys
mount their ride, and work in the chute. She was reaching a fairly high
state of arousal when during a break, this animal psychologist came on and
was talking about how well these animals are treated....he even said it was
like their own sport, a competition for the animals. But when you think
about it, what could happen, this guy climbs on top of you 3-4 times a week
and you buck like crazy until it's over and get to enjoy all that untamed
freedom over and over again. But you know, when you think about the way you
might feel when you stop...and imagine the excitement and anticipation of
actually riding a bronc. I wonder what it would be like, if you were to
picture yourself standing on the gate, straddling that chute, and looking
down at this huge muscular beast....and you can feel his hot breath on you
even before you come... to the point where you ease yourself down. And then
you feel all this rock hardness under you and your legs are stretched so
tight....and you can feel these muscles pulsing underneath you trying to
rip you apart and you just think...."Oh my God"!  And then, as the tension
starts to build, and your pulse starts to race, it seems like you are
almost frozen in time but you really don't know how many minutes have
passed. And then, all of a sudden....just before you begin to lose
consciousness, you mysteriously become aware of a number of
the beating of your heart, and the rhythm of your breathing in time with
this magnificent beast below me, and you know when this ride is over,
you'll want to climb back on, again.. and again... and again. And then as
you tighten your grip, and you know it's time when you raise
your hand almost as if to're about to have an orgasm which
lasts a full 8 seconds but it seems like an eternity in your mine and is
the most intensely powerful thing you've ever experienced.....with me at
least. And then you walk away and you look back and just smile, because you
know in your heart (point at her tits) it was all worth it...and you can't
wait for your next ride."
Guys, take a girl horseback riding are practically
guaranteed to get laid. There is something mystical about the way they
"connect" with horses...not to mention the natural stimulation they feel in
the saddle. : )

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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