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Massive acts of sin and indulgence
1/8/02 6:03:41 PM Eastern Standard Time


The big news today is that Ross Jeffries is holding a Speed Seduction»
Seminar here in Montreal August 9, 10 & 11.  This is a go!  Reserve your
spot early!
The rest of Ross's Seminar Schedule for 2002 is as follows:
Los Angeles   January 25, 26 & 27
Chicago       May 3, 4 & 5
Atlanta     July 12, 13, & 14
Palo Alto, Calif.      Sept. 13, 14, & 15
He will also be giving his Magick/Psychic Influence Seminars in:
Orlando, Florida       March 29, 30, & 31
New York          June 7,8, & 9
Read more below!


It's time to kick butt and open new pathways to pleasure with Poontangus at
the first 2002 Speed Seduction» Seminar.  This will be the most organized
and structured presentation I've ever done, with lots of flow charts to
help you understand how all the pieces fit together. I've become
increasingly dedicated to making SS more and more user friendly; I won't be
teaching this forever, or even that much longer, so the day needs to come
when guys can get it, WITHOUT me being around to spoon feed and hand-hold.
Therefore, I am moving the seminars more and more to be structurally
organized in a way where you can teach yourself the tools, identify your
strengths AND sticking points, and build to where you need and want to go.
I will be covering some very advanced and excellent things on:
*** Walk-ups*** I have really been pushing the walk-up tech forward. I'm
going to be covering how to extend your energy, awareness and intent and to
stay firmly in the authority/selectivity seat THROUGHOUT the walk up
process. In fact, I will teach you how to never think in terms of "walk
ups" again, but instead about selectively testing and teasing to see who
will get a chance to prove herself to you! Learn the principles you must
apply at ALL times through a "walk up" and the principles you must apply
***Priming the pump/info gathering***** Too much of SS is still thought of
as spouting memorized "patterns". This seminar will strongly put emphasis
on learning to ask questions/gather information/evoke responses in a way
that "primes the pump" so that SHE is the one doing most of the work. Trust
me, this is the lazy AND effective way to "sarge". I'm thrilled about the
breakthroughs in this area.
***Physical closing**** Lots of guys get stuck here. We're going to do a
good module on physical closing, how to structure it, what to expect, how
to handle last minute problems, etc.
***anti-flaking technology**** Flaking is my pet peeve; I hate it. Learn
some great ways to pre-frame the opportunity and to create an anti-flake
checklist for yourself to handle what can come up.
***getting past what's stuck*** As anyone who has taken the PI/Magick
courses or bought the videos knows, I've really come up with breakthrough
ways to get past old responses and build a powerful, resourceful self that
helps you to make right moves/have the right responses.
We want to keep this a small seminar, due to the degree of personal
attention I would like to give so call Yates and sign up NOW!
Yates is at: 1-703-791-6421 or email at yat***j@ix***.com[ ? ]


I am writing this because many guys still seem to be in the stone ages when
it comes to using SS in bars. If you find that you already know and can
practice in the real world what I am about to say, good for you.
However, I know there are a lot of guys out there that are stuck when it
comes to sarging/PUAing in bars. So if this post only helps one newbie get
his feet wet or one guy that is at a sticking point, I will still be glad
that I posted this. I am by no means closing every time I go to a bar, but
I am getting really fucking good. That is to say, (1) there is rarely ever
a moment when I am not charming some girl, (2) I am getting a lot more bar
kiss closes, (3) and my rate of fuck closing has gone way up. What I am
about to share is not a universal rule about what SS/PUA style works in
bars. Instead, this is about what works for me. It is also a testimonial to
how well SS can work in bars. Now guys, I am not talking about the older
models of SS. In fact, I don't think these older versions of SS worked well
in bars at all. What I am talking about is how well the newest and latest
developments in SS work in bars.
A few words on clothes: I don't think a person has to spend a huge amount
of money on cool clothes. However, if you look like a complete dork, it is
going to make life a lot more difficult. So, what I am suggesting is that
you get some threads - they don't have to be something that is really
expensive - that are somewhat hip, but at the same time you can feel
comfortable in. I know that this is some really simple advice, however, it
is my belief that a sticking point with some SS brothers is induced by
their dorky look. So, if you want to pick up on young hot girls in bars,
you should remember that they are not going to cut you much slack for
looking like a complete dork.
What works for me: One thing that I have noticed about bars is that many
hot little girls go there TO HAVE FUN. For the most part, they don't think
to themselves before they go to a bar or club: what hot stallion is going
to stick his big hard Mr. Willy in me tonight? Instead, girls go to bars to
have fun. That means that they are probably going to stay clear of lusty
horny serious men with no personality. The types of guys most girls want to
interact with are the types
of guys who are confident and fun. In my experience, WOMEN LOVE PLAYFUL
GUYS. So, when I go to a bar, I think to myself: I am going to play with
every hot woman in this place. In other words, I am going to fuck with
them, mess with their minds a little, bust their balls, and then see how
they react. For me, this frame is great because no matter what happens I get a
great laugh.
Walk Ups:
First off, let's start with walkups:  In my opinion, using pickup lines in
bars is a waste of time. That is not to say, that it is not apropos to
compliment a girl on something about her that you
genuinely like or are genuinely curious about. In other words, I am saying
that it is generally not a good idea to compliment girls - especially
really hot girls - on their looks. Often times, when guys do this to the
girl, the girl perceives what the guy is saying as meaning: Oh oh…I am so
horny…I have big boner…and would really like to fuck you. One context in
which I have had success with complimenting girls on their looks is when I
do it in an exaggerated humorous way.
Remember, the best walkups are the ones when you get a girl to laugh. When
you get a girl laughing, they think to themselves: this guy is pretty cool.
ONTO WHAT WORKS FOR ME: One thing that I have learned (and I owe this to
watching both Ross and Sin in action) is that what you initially say is not
as important as how well you calibrate; that is, get outside your head and
notice what is going on with the girl you are talking to. When you learn to
calibrate, you will BEGIN to see invaluable opportunities to initiate
conversation with hot girls. In my experience, coming up with witty or
funny things to say to a girl on the fly is mostly about calibration. Let
me give you an example of one of things I do. If I
am at a bar and see a girl that is standing with her arms crossed and a
frown on her face, I will go up to her mimicking her body language» and
facial expressions. Every time I have done this, they bust up laughing.
Then I will say to them, I am going to come back over here in a couple of
minutes and you better have a smile on your face. If they're playful, they
will say something like "what will you do if don't." And I will retort
with, "You will get a spanking." Then, if I come back and they are still
standing there looking sad, I will point at them and say, "Bad girl"
and then they will smile. Next I will have them give me their hand. Then I
smack it lightly, and say, "BAD GIRL, BAD LITTLE GIRL". Of course I am
doing this in a playful way. If you don't do this in an outgoing laid back
confident manner, girls will probably think you are a creep and slap you
across the face. However, if this is done in the right way, girls eat this
shit up
like candy.
What do I think about patterns in bars? I think patterns are great as long
as we are on the same page about what a pattern is. We need to distinguish
the difference between what we used to call patterns and what is now
considered a pattern. By what we used to call patterns I am talking about
people memorizing mini-romance novels and then going to a bar and reciting
it to a woman. You know the guy who spends an hour before he goes out to a
bar to memorize the
forbidden "sea monkey" pattern or practices the sacred "praying mantis"
demo. Then goes to the bar, and haphazardly goes up to girls, and within a
few minutes, without even calibrating or setting the context, is off doing
his bizarre little routine…And here is the really funny part: he expects
the girl to actually jump his bones after this. In reality, the girl
probably thinks either that he is a creepy weirdo or that the monologue he
is saying is so abstract that it is beginning become boring to listen to.
For the most part, and I know that there are exceptions, girls
don't want to listen to some guy's blabbing monologue; especially if it
takes allot of concentration to understand. Remember, young girls do not go
out to listen to someone lecture them; they probably get their dose of this
during the week in their college classes. Girls go out to have fun and
escape this. I am not saying that memorized scripts are completely futile
but that they can be detrimental to you closing if you use them out of
context. So what the hell do I
mean by a pattern? What I mean by a pattern is anything I do that
successfully gets them into the state I intend to put them in. So in my
experience, this is more about calibration, asking the right questions, and
then using the info they gave me in their responses to take them into the
desired state. Both the signal recognition technique and value elicitation
method are excellent means of doing this.
A word about inducing somnambulistic states:  I used to be real big on
inducing somnambulistic states and I still am. In fact, when it comes to
putting girls in somnambulism I am a master. The sort of demos and hypnosis
techniques I have used would blow most SSers' minds away. I have used these
techniques to transition into making out with girls within in the first few
minutes of meeting them. However, one of the things I learned from Ross is
that making every girl I talk to's head explode in a context where I cannot
logistically close is probably going to stifle my intended outcome (BTW,
there are exceptions; some girls want to be overwhelmed in this way. That
is why it is important to calibrate.)  In other words, these techniques can
come across as a bit jarring if you have just met the girl. Once you get
her out of the bar, and back at
someone's house, the hardcore hypno techniques work wonders. Also doing a
big old long induction to make out with a girl is really too much work. In
real life, kiss-closing girls in bars is much easier.
Reframes are a powerful way of overcoming objections: Most of the stuff I
learned on reframes
comes from Rick H and reading Robert Dilts (BTW, if you want to get good at
reframing, read the books 'Sleight of Mouth' and 'Changing Belief
Systems').  Rick is a master at reframing objections. One of Rick's
strategies for reframing girls is based on Robert Dilts' logical level
pyramid (BTW, for those who don't know, the logical level pyramid from top
to bottom is spirituality, identity, beliefs, capability, behaviors, and
lastly, the environment. The higher up
a logical level is, the more value is placed on it).
The first thing that Rick does is to address an objection by reframing it
on a lower logical level.
Let me give you an example. You know the situation when you get a girl
really interested in you, really turned on, and then you ask the girl if
you can have her number (Yes, I know a lot of SSers and PUAs would never
directly ask a girl for her phone number, but bear with me. I think you get
the message)…and she gives you the response, "I don't give my number out to
guys I meet in bars". Now this is probably at the logical level of beliefs
or identity - i.e., she
believes that she is above guys in bars, which is an identity statement or
she believes that giving her number out to a guy in a bar would be a bad
idea. So how would we reframe this on a lower logical level and then give
her a motivation to give me her number on a higher logical level? Say
something like this: I couldn't agree with you more. I mean as you LOOK at
those guys in here (point away) you can probably NOTICE how trashy they
look. I mean if you actually gave them your number, one thing could lead to
the next…and you could end up marrying them. I mean could you imagine that:
fifteen years from now both you and that (point
away) guy putting on so much weight that you guys look like two walking
mini marts…you and him will probably live in some trailer park home eating
hot pockets for the rest of your life. I mean just think how pathetic that
would be. After she stops laughing say: And at the same time you seem like
someone who is smart, smart enough and experienced enough to know that
extraordinary opportunities happen in ordinary circumstances… Keen enough
to see that one pearl amongst the scum…You seem like the sort of person who
has a strong enough sense of who you are that you can be flexible and
adventurous enough to MOVE past your ordinary rules…and ALLOW yourself to
take a chance and seize this (sp) opportunity.


> GameMaster: I'm sticking primarily with the 34 and up crowd, I've found
that is pretty much the threshold to be able to appeal to their sense of
fair play when it comes to a reply.

Ross: Well, I get ya...but they aren't going to give a rat's ass about fair
play if they don't like your pic in the first place. When you needle them a
bit about not writing back, have you considered they just don't like your
This is my big sticking point and maybe I am not making it clear: once I
get them on the phone I can pattern them, use my energy/voice..but from a
lifeless photo, I don't often get that chance.
> GameMaster: And persistence can pay off properly calculated. You can't
appear desperate, but you can come across as a good guy with a genuine
intuition, or several, about a chick. If they bite on the intuition angle
that's a good time to get them on the phone.

Ross: Ok. Could you give us an example of one of your follow up
"persistent" letters that gets them to email back or call you after they
have previously failed to do so?
> GM: I have a pic posted....with my Mom! : ) OK, I know that's fucking
evil but it was the best photo I could find in the archives. And it doesn't
matter if the thing is 5 years old either, which mine is, but I had some
girls go through a stack of pics to find the most flattering image they
could find. I think the real key is to hook em' with intrigue once you get
over this "send me a pic" deal.

Ross: unanimous were they in picking that pic with your Mom? I
actually had a new pic done that did better than the old one, but still not
NEARLY what I'd like. A student of mine who is a professional photographer
said the current pic is very good, but the problem is it
portrays me as warm, friendly, happy....instead of dominant and "Alpha
Male»" I am going to have some new ones taken, using the current cover
of Details with Ben Stiller as the model(this is what the photog
suggested).  As for the quality...I've met a couple of ladies through and both of them have been seriously dinged, on the edge of being
insane, the
other just depressed and of flat affect. Hmmmm...
> GM: These girls won't reply to anyone that doesn't have a pic posted,
and believe me, the camera hates my ass. But again, somewhere sometime when
the stars were perfectly aligned somebody took a photo of you that you
really like.

Ross:  I DO like my current pic; the chicks don't. Point..set..match. I
hate to give up on because it sure SEEMS like a great source of
poontangus, and this internet stuff is the ONE form of Sarging I can't seem
to get down, since my ugly mug gets me blown out of the water instead of
being blown.  I also think any woman who takes the time to put into writing
who she is looking for is hypnotically programming herself to seek a very
specific fantasy that is MORE likely to get a guy eliminated on his looks
than in the non-internet world, but that's my own frustration talking....
> NightLight9: I'd like to watch you work. I can't do what you described
because when I do, women say no. Maybe it's my looks, maybe it's my
personality or maybe it's something else, but it just doesn't work. I have
to be funny, interesting and create a connection first.

Ross:  Same here. You are missing the point; MB has said he's very good
looking and women often approach him first, based on that, when he hasn't
even said a word.  If I had that degree of physical attractiveness, I could
do the same thing.


Mark B.:
>Sean: Just some questions for Mark B: 1. Do you ever go out specifically
to pick up women?

MB: Yes I do but sometimes if I see one that catches my eye even if picking
up is not my intent I do it anyway.
> Sean: 2. Do you find that it's easier to approach women when you are
alone or with a wingman? Do you prefer one way over the other?

MB: Usually alone because I do not want anyone to interfere with what I am
doing. Even if I am with a bunch of guys I will break out on my own and go
up to her. But what we will do sometimes is just stand there and get their
attention by saying hello and they just stay and talk. But I do not only
pickup in clubs or bars. Anywhere for me is fair game, on sidewalks, stores,
even driving......
> Sean: 3. At this point do you always have at least one woman that you
could call almost anytime for some hot monkey love?

MB: Yes, a few, but I call on one regularly because she is the best and our
sexual chemistry is very high.
> Sean: 4. Do you have any specific methods or techniques for getting into
your relaxed, fun state? I find that I get much better results when I'm in
that kind of a state, but I can't always get into it.

MB: I find that it's hard for me to think or feel myself into a state. What
works for me is setting goals and diet believe it or not. I find that there
are foods that make you relaxed and ones that make you nervous. So I make
sure I eat what makes me feel easy, relaxed and aggressive - brown rice,
red meat, oatmeal, hard boiled egg whites and supplement with Flaxseed Oil.
I naturally feel relaxed and easy I can put myself in the most nerve
wracking situations and feel relaxed. But when I have not eaten well, even
the slightest interaction or just sitting there doing nothing can feel tough.
> Sean: 5. Do you ever set goals for yourself to approach a certain amount
of HB's, like 10 per day or whatever? Or do you just kind of do what feels
good for you?

MB: I am busy with work as I am in sales so I work from 8:30 to about
7:00-7:30 everyday and then hit the gym from about 8:00 to 9:30 so during
the week I am limited. What I do though is I tell myself that if I see a
hot babe when I am out I will approach her. Sometimes while even driving on
a street I turn around to talk to an HB I passed by waiting at a bus stop.
On the weekends when I go out with my buds or I am out alone, I will
usually set a target of approaching every HB I see and whether that is one,
three five or ten does not matter.
> Sean: 6. Do you usually go to specific target rich environments?

MB: To me the world is a target rich environment. Wherever I go and I see
an HB she is fair game regardless of where I am and what we are both doing.
SO, no I do not go anywhere specifically. I once picked up and boned a
woman I met in the heart of gay town in Toronto so go figure. But to
increase chances, I would go to malls, big clubs, busy streets wherever.
> Ross: Hey, if a woman is ALREADY ATTRACTED TO YOU, being direct about
what you want certainly will work. Here is the point that guys like Mark
just are NOT getting or aren't willing to acknowledge: If a woman is NOT
attracted to you, clearly stating what YOU want from her will NOT MAKE HER
MORE ATTRACTED TO YOU. Mark keeps ignoring context. What works, works in
the context of what the woman ALREADY feels for you. Mark
has mentioned, time and again, that women approach him based SOLELY ON HIS
LOOKS. Well, duh. If a woman is drooling over your appearance, telling her
what you want is probably going to be well received, versus being "average
looking" and not having her want you much, if at all.

MB:  If a woman has not had a dose of your personality what other basis
other than looks can she approach you on? Once the looks have sunk in, she
stays by virtue of one's personality. I have fucked up plenty of good
situations while women have approached me or with women who were very
responsive at first by not being fun or allowing things weighing in my mind
affect me. Besides, I have deep scars on the sides of my cheeks, a slightly
chipped second upper tooth on the right side of my mouth, a small patch of
white hair on the side of my head just above the ear, my bottom front teeth
are crooked and I have less than best skin so do not
think I am the specimen you believe I am.  But expressing your attraction
to her, you are being highly courageous and taking a huge risk of
rejection. To her that is attractive because it shows
you have guts. After all women's #1 need is to be desired and she wants a
man who is courageous.
> Ross: For those of you who don't understand that simple word, I'll explain.
Context INCLUDES, but isn't limited to:
1. The physical environment
2. What she is already feeling for/about you
3. Her perception of who she is, what she is used to doing, who and what she
is used to liking.
4. Interferences: emotional and external. Is she distraught because her Mom
just died of cancer? Is she being forced to work 80 hours this week to
finish a crucial project? Did her girlfriend, who hates your GUTS, really
go to work
on her to convince her not to see you?

MB: I talked about this very thing before in my previous posts.
> Ross: As the SEALS teach: targets dictate weapons. Weapons dictate
movement. The more you know about your "target", INCLUDING THE CONTEXT, you
and she are operating in, the better you are going to do. Now, if simply
TELLING a woman how YOU feel and what YOU want worked to get her hot and
bothered for you, zillions of AFC chumps who have crushes on women would
suddenly be fucking their brains out with their dream girls, just by
"revealing their true feelings".

MB: Yes, but wait right here and let's make a very clear distinction. I,
too, have said "HB you are the best, I want to be with you because you make
me complete as a man and I like you a lot and would like to be with you"
only to get the inevitable boot from virtually every woman I have ever said
this to. But when I have said "I think you are hot. You have stunning eyes
and are super sexy. I find you very attractive." No woman have ever, ever
walked away from that. The key difference is the first is a need for her
for the long term which is a sign of weakness and makes them run. The
second one is an appreciation of her in the moment and makes her feel
wanted and desired but it is not a request to have her for the long term. I
have discovered, painfully so, that unfortunately women make the decision
as to whether they want you around for the long term and when an AFC
indicates that first he is toast.
> Ross: However, we KNOW from very painful experience, what happens when
we tell a
girl how WE feel, when SHE feels little or NOTHING for us. When has this
EVER changed a girl's mind?

MB: Once again, I never tell her how I feel about her. I tell her my
opinion of her. I never say "I like you a lot" I do say "I think you are
hot". Expression of opinion and expression of emotion are two different
things and I avoid the former like the plague but shower her with my great
opinions of her. Seems to work even on the most devoted attached/married
women. Hell,
even my mother slept with about 30 men behind my dad's back for 16 years
simply because they told her she was beautiful. I saw some of these guys
and frankly some of them make Jabba the Hut look like George Clooney. When
I asked her why she did what she did, she said "They made me feel desired
and attractive and I could not help but respond." Was their attractiveness
an issue? No. Was the way they made her feel an issue? Yes.  Simply put,
even if you lack the look but can make a women feel desirable and sexy she
will respond to you. Has anyone ever gone to a club walked by a HB5-10, had
her not even notice you or just barely see you as you walk by but then be
super-responsive when you do finally approach her? She just needed to know
you noticed her first.
> Dwacon: I met this little Janet Jackson look-alike via the personals and
she was like, "no, I won't kiss you." This kept on for a while. So I just
grabbed her and kissed her. She was like offended for a second, then got
hot and we wound up bouncing the mattress. Something about me just taking
it turned her on.

MB: AMAZING. Wow. You are quite a trooper. Any other such stories? I guess
they just need to be taken. I remember a 3 years ago I met a girl who had a
boyfriend at the time and she refused to sleep with me but would make out
with me nonetheless. I ended up bringing her to a an empty condo I had
access to where she just kissed me but refused to fuck. I took her to the
bedroom and just took her pants off and proceeded to eat her out. She still
would not fuck me so I continued to eat her out. After about an hour she
said "I want to suck your cock" so I let her but she still would not fuck
me. I rolled her over on her back and just put it in. She did not resist
and I boned her for an hour. The next night she came back and within 2 minutes
all her clothes were off and we were fucking like mad again. To this day
she still comes around for a session here and there. When I asked her why
she eventually gave in she said "I did not want to make the decision
myself. I wanted you to make it for me." Are they all not like
that???????????  She admitted to me that a few weeks before she met me she
told one of her
girlfriends that she would never cheat on her boyfriend and that she loves
him more than the world. HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
> GM: You're not talking to them, you are MindFucking the shit out of
them. And yes, it can be done. No touch orgasms, squirting, orgasms while
they're blowing you....only your imagination limits your results. And never
tell a woman she's beautiful, Bro! Make them feel beautiful and hold the
compliments. And while I agree with your statement about low self-esteem,
leave the compliments for the AFC's...keep your distance from these beggars.

MB: O.K. how do you make a woman feel beautiful without telling her? This I
sincerely would like to know. Let me in on the way.....
> Nightlight: I'd like to watch you work. I can't do what you described
because when I do, women say no. Maybe it's my looks, maybe it's my
personality or maybe it's something else, but it just doesn't work. I have
to be funny, interesting and create a connection first. Then I can be
direct and it works... sometimes. To the point, since communication is so
multi-levelled it would be interesting to see you in action. Where are you?
I'm in Seattle. Let's get together sometime and shoot the shit.

MB: I usually start out with the request right off the bat. "I want ______"
without any prep work. I want them to see in the right frame and then build
on that. I find the longer I take to make a move the more AFC it looks.
> NEEDHELPBAD: erectile dysfunction.

MB: I find it's more about prevention than cure. I get the most massive and
hard erections but it was not always this way. I find avoiding junk food
and eating clean works extremely well. Try taking the sex vitamins and
minerals such as zinc, magnesium, vitamin E. Eat red meat, egg yolks, high
quality unprocessed oatmeal from a Bulk Store, brown rice and avoid foods
with high salt intake as that is a sure erectile killer.


Last nite I drove up to a town near me to meet this chick who actually did
turn out to be the spitting image of one of my exes. We met for drinks and
the conversation was lively enough and I was getting in plenty of good
shots...she decided to stay for dinner but said her sitter needed to be
home by 10:30...that fit the time line so I didn't object.  So we finished
dinner, and I'd been hammering away pretty good at her and kiss closed her
in the parking lot. She invited me home and we said goodnite to the sitter
and Heather put on some music and we began slow-dancing....15 minutes from
HOME! Anyway, it was about 1:30AM I think as I was fucking the hell out of
her that I heard a door open and this little voice that said "Mom, are you
She freaked out and I turned to find not one, but four kids standing in the
doorway ages 3-14. How embarrassing....for Heather! : ) Anyway, I've had
that happen before but the total count I was expecting was 2, not 4. Good
example of what you find on the net, it's always something from kids, to
ex-husbands, medical problems, whatever it is you'll get around to it


I have been formulating a theory lately. Here goes. Chicks with low self
esteem need outside validation and are much too turned off by guys who are
too hot for them. These chicks seek to be surrounded by guys who are less
hot than they are in order to buttress their self image. Chicks with
regular self esteem accept guys on their level of looks. Chicks with an
inflated sense of self esteem, usually go for much hotter guys than
themselves and seek the ability to dominate the much hotter guys. So, how
does this apply to PU? We need to PU girls with low self esteem only if
they are intrinsically very hot, say 8-10. The girls with inflated self
esteem, we ought to bust their balls (ala Sis and Mystery neg hit), and if
we are comparable in looks to the average self esteemed chicks we should be
direct (ala Mark B). In the case we are less hot than a girl with average
self esteem, then we should bust their balls/neg hit. And, finally, for the
case of the low rating HB/UG borderline with low self esteem, we must
compliment them to build them up so that they can accept us being hotter
than them.


> Clifford: One thing that I have found to be massively successful with
women is to almost never tell them what I have done. For example, they ask
you "What did you do last night?" and I will (as naturally as possible)
change the subject. I make it a conscious rule to not let them
put  together where I was, what I was doing, etc. when I wasn't with them.
And I am relentless about this, I have it constantly in mind. I have become
a man of mystery that they cannot figure out and I am certain that this
plays a major role. Try it, it really, really works but you have to do it
in a very natural, easy way as if you aren't trying to do this or else it
comes  across as weird.

Halbster: Yes, this is a great tactic. I'm curious if you have certain
standard responses. Here are some of mine:
1) The Usual, resigned myself to existing as an international man of
mystery and put up with ceaseless comparisons between me and that inferior,
but still very cool Bond guy.
2) I made justice happen
3) I meditated and explored altered states of consciousness and bliss that
make people from yogis to porn stars green with envy
4) Lived dangerously and took a walk on the wild side often followed by
5) I could tell you but I'd have to kill you
6) Successfully completed another top secret mission for the good of all
7) Massive acts of sin and indulgence
8) I gave in and surrendered to the weakness of flesh. Yet again I allowed
beautiful women to seduce me.


-On NLP swish techniques- I said that stuff was too mild, not that it
didn't work. I don't know what the stats are on its success, but I'm sure
it can work.  I myself have used much milder stuff with results, a smile
can be hypnotic, getting in the face of a strange woman and saying one
word, "SEX" (GM style) can put her in alpha brain waves pronto. It works
alright, and that's the problem. We are all walking around in a hypnotic
state already, the last thing we need is less consciousness.
In my last post I recommend taking action. Just see the truth of it and go,
if you can't do that, then suffer until you can. I realize some people will
never awake from the hypnosis of life, and if that's the case then by all
means use auto-hypnosis to alter yourself.
But I have one last proposal, before you go for the hypnosis, or the
suffering, why not try a fast, not a food fast but a fast from virtual
reality. For 6 days don't watch T.V. (virtual reality), don't read any
fiction (vr), and don't daydream or fantasize (vr).  I like the term
Mystery uses... MENTAL MASTURBATION, that's what it all is, stay away from
it for 6 days, and on the sixth day take action , go out sarging, hit on
women, after drying out for 6 days you will feel
much stronger both mentally and physically.  I also recommend that you eat
a very plain diet, go
vegetarian, and eat lots of raw foods. If you cannot do this, or on day 6
you find you still lack the courage to sarge, then go the hypnosis route.
Understand that this Virtual Reality fast is ANTI-HYPNOTIC, it separates
the men from the boys, all your T.V. and sports, pornography, daydreaming,
etc., is sensuous food for a weak soul.  Women are the more sensuous sex,
so be a man, withdraw from it and see if your lust for action grows.
Maybe its time to lay down the law again...
Cultleader's Law for the use of hypnosis: HYPNOSIS IS SOMETHING WE USE ON
> Stephane: Could you explain a little more about KGB brainwashing?

Cultleader: I will make it short. There are 3 main methods of brainwashing;
1. sensory deprivation 2. over stimulation--prod, whip, sexual abuse,
terrifying, etc. 3.Brain syndrome caused by fatigue and hunger.
There are 3 stages of brainwashing:
1. deconditioning
2. breakdown, and identification with the new authority
3. reindoctrination
Brainwashing's goal is conversion, if you want to create wonderful feelings
in a woman, SS, nlp, light hypnosis, is suitable.
Indoctrination is a mild level of brainwashing, it is a very direct
conversion system which attempts to change a person's viewpoint while they
are still a thinking individual. More severe types seek to change minds
without input or control from the subject.  This seems to be the antithesis
of SS, which elicits info from women, and then uses the woman's own words
in with patterns to create exciting/pleasurable states, also the woman is
able to walk away at any time, in classic brainwashing this is not so.
There are some brainwashing techniques that can be used in a successful PU.
I sometimes use
interrogation, subjugation (try invading her body space), threats,
isolation, degradation (the mild
stuff, NEG HITS could qualify). Don't get carried away, keep it light,
these are innocent women we're dealing with.


Franky the Tux:
> Ciz: But girls without a bitch shield or who are open about sex, like
European chicks (God bless the King for kicking out the Puritans -- too bad
they ended up in America though)...

Franky the Tux:  Actually the Puritans were very open to sex, and women's
rights, within the context of their beliefs. Sex was great - and expected -
within marriage, of course (which was the way, officially at least, that
Europe embraced). There is an actual documented case of a Puritan wife
bringing her husband before the court because he was not fulfilling his
duty as husband to her sexually!  Imagine one of us today taking our wife
or gf to court for refusing to have sex
with us! They also didn't wear black all the time (just on Sundays) and
they liked to drink alcohol (drunkenness was not acceptable, just as it
shouldn't be now). The popular view of them today is a stereotype.


> NEEDHELPBAD: On a touchy subject - has anyone out there ever had
problems getting it up? I'm a young guy but I've been having the disastrous
"erectile disfunction" problem quite often for some time. Is there anyone
who has experienced this problem before? Right now I use Viagra but I don't
want to get stuck using it for the rest of my life. Obviously this makes
entering a sexual relationship a BILLION times more difficult. On a few
occasions, women have dumped me point blank because of my "problem" and I
simply can't go on living like this. I've been to psychotherapy (I'm quite
confident that this is psychogenic and not physiological) before but it
wasn't useful (probably specific therapist related) and I really feel stuck
(and actually quite desperate for a solution). I would really appreciate
help with this.

Prophet:  You might try going to church and meeting women there, but not
sleeping with them. Take some time to get to know each other (months?)
before sleeping together. A quote from the book of Proverbs is: the
strength of a man is in his fidelity.  Also, a girl I set up with another
guy last year told me that when they went to bed the first few times he
would lose his erection when he went to penetrate her. This happened a few
times. He just told her it was normal for this to happen with him at first
and she accepted his explanation. They are still together as far as I know.


> Joseph (from Exceed International): Four essential types of men tend to
attract women

NightLight9: This has been done exhaustively (and better) in "The Art of
Seduction»" by Greene". While I don't agree 100% with his breakdown (I think
it's 11 archetypes), yours is very simplistic given the many different
types of guys who get women. Also you need a lot more depth. You call one
type the clown, but clowns are precisely the kind of funny guy that doesn't
get laid.
Being funny isn't enough to get you laid, by HB's at least. You need other
> Mark B.: [snip] I would say to her within 5 minutes of meeting "hey how
about a strip show"
in a joking way if I feel she feel relaxed enough with me to take it. I
feel that placing a humorous spin on what you say allows you to get away
with saying almost anything.

NightLight9: Funny how in general I feel more comfortable getting a girl to
kiss me in 5 minutes given the right circumstances than asking her for
strip show. It points to how important your set of beliefs are in a given
set of situations.
>MB: I am not sure how to take this question from you? What do you mean by
"insecure/immature dumb asses" and why do you find it amazing? Regarding
your question we just have been very open with each other as far back as I
can remember. (I am 28 and she is 23.) It just seems the way to be as our
whole family is very open about sex in discussion and in general as we
never attached any shame or guilt to anything to do with the human body or
human desires. I guess this is why it's so easy for me to tell women I want
them. I tell her about what I do with women and in turn she tells me what
she does with her men as if it's no big deal actually, like a normal

NightLight9: I have a similar relationship with my family although I think
yours is more open and I don't have sister (which I've always thought a
detriment to my PU skills).  If there is one thing everyone should be
reading from Mark's comments it's how freaking congruent he is! Women sense
this and it makes it OK for him to say things that he otherwise couldn't.
>MarkB.: However on another point I am equally open regarding sex and all
sorts of bodily functions with all women I meet and they inevitably become
equally open with me. I find that when I open up first it frees them to
also open up. Just like when I tell them I want them it frees them to feel
and express that they want me.

NightLight9: Can't agree more. If a girl thinks you won't judge her she
will feel free to be free with her feelings and personal information. The
easiest way to feel she won't be judged is to share your feelings (this
doesn't mean that's always the right thing to do). If you are talking to a
girl and you think she smokes pot. You can say "Yeah, me and a friend were
smoking pot". You'll be amazed by the rapport you just gained because A)
she sees you have something in common and B) it takes balls and honesty to
admit that you do that openly to her.

MarkB: Regarding age, I target women 25 and up so younger than that I would
not know about but I do not see how it should be different other than maybe
it requires more work to get
them to feel easy with you.

NightLight9: I target 18 - 32, and I tend to agree that the biggest
difference is getting them to feel comfortable with you is harder for a
wide variety of reasons. Once you do though, they are much more impressionable.


I especially like these two comments by Gamemaster on online dating» (the
whole post is very good):
>GameMaster: I know the top 5% get deluged with mail and sometimes they
don't have the time to write back.
>GameMaster: I cut and paste their profile to Word and then write a witty
one paragraph response and mail them out once a week

Yum:  About a year ago, I decided to see if anyone in was using
SS or other PUA techniques. I created a female profile, using the photo of
an really gorgeous ex. Sure enough, I was deluged with mail. Most of the
replies were soooo typical and boring.
Saying how gorgeous they thought I was, how much our profiles match, how
great they are, how they don't normally do this kind of thing.  The best
reply (that almost tempted me to reply) was about one sentence long. It was
funny, cocky, and seemed typical of what a funny, fun, cocky, confident guy
who doesn't take himself too seriously would send. Anyways, after all these
"too earnest" replies, it was the only one that seemed worth replying to.
No one seemed to be using SS.


I have a couple of suggestions about posting pictures in online ads.
1.) GM said he used a picture he had taken with his mom. I had some taken
with my cousin's dog, a yellow lab and an American flag. Positive
associations that overcome my average looks.
2.) I also ride a crotch rocket, so I had some pictures taken with my
leathers and helmet next to the bike. Very strong positive responses with
this one.
3.) Almost any hobby or activity that shows you doing something you enjoy.
Especially something athletic that has a uniform or specialty equipment
like bicycling, soccer, etc.
Finally, regarding the young man with erectile dysfunction: Have you tried
hypnosis or self-hypnosis? There are a number of scripts for this. I would
recommend trying this first before resorting to pharmacology.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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