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"She knew I was just being honest and open"

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She knew I was just being honest and open
1/17/02 4:31:14 PM Eastern Standard Time


Just plain silly.

Clifford: Silly, perhaps, but damn expensive!


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Here is a tid bit for the newsletter that have been kicking ass with. This
first part is something I read somewhere, maybe you wrote it, and it is
definitely worth repeating. After I hang out with a girl or meet her out
somewhere, I tell her I know of a great place that serves wine by
candlelight. I tell her we need to stop by my house first to grab
something. Then when she goes to the bathroom (they always do!) I run
upstairs with a bottle and 2 glasses and light the candles in my room, then
run downstairs before they come out! When they come out I say "Let's go!"
and lead them upstairs. This works every time! Then we sit on the bed and
drink some wine and soon we are making out. Then I say, "Let's play a
game!"  The game is called STRIP Heads or Tails! You flip a coin and have
the girl call it in the air. If she gets it right then you take off
something, and if she is wrong then it's her turn. I usually make a rule
that each person is allowed to keep on one article of clothing to leave
some fun for later. I have done this with 3 girls in a row and it is MONEY!
Another good move/neg is when a girl says something dumb, put your hand up
and say "Hi Five" and then when she goes to hit your hand miss on purpose
and lightly hit her on the forehead. Girls love that! Also, I like to bring
silly string with me to the bar and if I think a girl is asking for it I
let loose on her! This is really funny cause the girl will chase you around
the room trying to get you back.
A good opener that I have been using is "Hey, did you know that this used
to be a gay bar?"
"Yep, and I think some of the guys here still think it is. Look at that guy
over there!" Then point to some gay looking dude. Or you can point to a
good looking guy and say "See I figure any guy that is better looking than
me HAS to be gay!"
Over the years one of my main obstacles with women has been the phone. Its
taken me a long time to figure out what I have been doing wrong, and now
that I have I am the KING! My old game plan was not to call very often, but
to always return calls as soon as I could and always call when I said I was
going to. Of course, I would never call twice in a row and if it was a
girl's turn to call me and she didn't I would forget about her. I figured I
would treat people the way I want to be treated and be a man about it, and
things would fall into place. I couldn't find any holes in the theory, but
for some reason I was losing women, but ONLY the girls I had interest in. I
decided to start paying careful attention to my convos with girls I liked
and girls I would keep around for boring nights, and I finally discovered
the ONE difference that has made ALL the difference.
Every time I was on the phone with a girl I liked, I would treat the call
like a sales call, and I would make sure to set up something that would
continue our conversations, like saying, "I'll call you this weekend", or
"Call me when you get off work." When I talked to a girl that I didn't care
about, I would end every conversation with "I talk to you later", because I
really didn't care if I talked to them this weekend or after work or
anytime at all! This is huge because 1. It shows your confident that you
are gonna talk to the girl again and you don't need to set anything up and
2. It eliminates the waiting game. If I end a convo with "I'll talk to you
later" and the next day I feel like seeing the girl, I can ring her up
because I don't have to wait until it's "her turn" to call me, and vice
versa. Now I have girls calling me all the time!

Clifford:  Good to hear from you even if it's waaaaaaayyyyy overdue!  Good
stuff!  You've come a long way from that time we were at Rik's in Santa
Monica where the chick asked if you were old enough to be in there....!


I was recently giving someone a consultation and he asked me a very
interesting question
about how to handle women that don't talk.  Here is the advice that I gave

I learned this trick from the greatest hypnotist who ever lived, Milton
Erickson.  Milton
calls this technique Frustration of Speech and it is VERY
effective.  Sometimes when
you're trying to nail an HB, and you're fluffing with her, she is too damn
quiet.  This
can be very frustrating because she answers almost all of your questions
with a simple
yes or no answer.  It's not that she is turned off by you, she's just
quiet.  Here's the cure:

What you do is very simple.  You ask her a question, any question, and when
you see her
getting ready to answer, you ask another question.  And each time her mouth
get under way, the next question is asked.  She will tend to speak
impulsively.  With the
girl who wants to be mute, you ask a question, just start a pause, and
don't give her
a chance to respond.  With the next question you wait, but not quite long
enough.  You're
so earnest, and it frustrates them until they say,"Will you shut up and let
me talk

Another thing you can try that always works is to prescribe the
symptom.  In other words,
you encourage her to not talk in such a way that she WANTS to talk.  There
are an infinite
number of ways you can go about this, such as saying something like,"You've
just met me, and I don't know you, and you don't know me.  Since we are
still strangers, there are some
things that you will be comfortable and some things that you won't be
comfortable discussing with me until you trust me.  Therefore I don't want
you to share with me anything that you
don't want to.  I ONLY want you to open up to me in any slow way you wish."

Something like that will do.  Of course, you will word it differently
depending on the
girl and context.  The point is that you are encouraging her to stay the
same in such
a way that she will feel compelled to start opening up.  And what they do
is SELECT.  They
think,"Can I dare tell this or not? I can withhold it, but I guess I can
tell this one..."
They always vote in favor of telling.  They postpone the telling, but
that's what
withholding is.


Franky the Tux:
> Ciz: I have been formulating a theory lately. Here goes. Chicks with low
self esteem need outside validation and are much too turned off by guys who
are too hot for them. These chicks seek to be surrounded by guys who are
less hot than they are in order to buttress their self image. Chicks with
regular self esteem accept guys on their level of looks. Chicks with an
inflated sense of self esteem, usually go for much hotter guys than
themselves and seek the ability to dominate the much hotter guys. So, how
does this apply to PU? We need to PU girls with low self esteem only if
they are intrinsically very hot, say 8-10. The girls with inflated self
esteem, we ought to bust their balls (ala Sis and Mystery neg hit), and if
we are comparable in looks to the average self esteemed chicks we should be
direct (ala Mark B). In the case we are less hot than a girl with average
self esteem, then we should bust their balls/neg hit. And, finally, for the
case of the low rating HB/UG borderline with low self esteem, we must
compliment them to build them up so that they can accept us being hotter
than them.

Franky the Tux: I think Ciz has broken the code with this one. After
enduring all the arguments between Ross, Mys, Sys, Stephane, etc. Ciz's
post made me consider that maybe they are all correct - they're just
correct about different types of women. If the differences in self esteem
create different responses to PU tactics, then that would explain why a
particular technique would work and not another. I hope this is explored
further. Even if it doesn't turn out to be
true it's good example of "thinking outside the box".


Clifford passed along:
[donning my flame suit here]
> Ross: No, no, no. Thanks, but no thanks. I appreciate the time invested
in writing the advice, but you don't understand.THE...CAMERA...HATES...ME.

Jake: Uh, Ross? You do realize this is pure hallucination on your part
don't you? How, specifically, do you know what the emotional states of the
camera are? Last I heard, cameras are dead. They are inert. They have no
feelings. Maybe I've been mistaken all of these years. As you seem to be
claiming that you're privy to the secret life of cameras and their
emotional states, would you mind sharing how you know that every single
camera ever made, or will ever be manufactured, hates you? Are you saying
that no camera anywhere, can EVER like you?
> MB: Most women do not approach me either but irrespective of looks
smiling at them and making eye contact seems to elicit the same from them
and sometimes if they are so inclined they may say "hello" or "hi" first or
make some general comment. Then it's up to you. I also found that having a
relaxed face works well in appearing harmless and most women approach me
when I feel most relaxed and easy. For some reason having a very relaxed
face works very well. Anyone suspect why? Ross maybe you know?

Jake: Maybe you look like you just got laid when you're relaxed.


> Ross: I'm going to let everyone know how the new pic works out. Proof
sheets should be in tomorrow for review.

Thorsten: I had an idea, what you can use additionally to an optimized
photo. You could put a reference in your reply mail for an internet site,
where she can get additional information on you, and another photo, just
pique her interest enough, and tell her to turn her sound on.
When she gets to the internet page, you let a recorded VOICE MESSAGE play
automatically, and you have the opportunity to work with her to her ear,
and you can use all your voice  experience then.  My impression is, that
she will be more willing to call you, because she knows your voice anyway.
My first thought was to set up a 0800 or I think in the
States it is 1800 number, where she can call and get your voice, but this
one is much easier.
I did not test it yet, though.  Please tell me what you think of the idea.
Combined with your letter and pics, it may be the missing piece.


> Jeff: (Commenting on: "Sis recommends just casually introducing yourself,
making her laugh and being cocky, and acting disinterested and even aloof,
creating a little doubt in her mind that you might not really be interested
in her. Mystery's method seems somewhat similar, using negs and creating
social proof and being entertaining using a rehearsed routine. Your
strategy seems so simple I almost can't believe you're getting away with
saying the shit you're saying."):
> MB: It's extremely simple. I say "Hello. My name is Mark. I could not help
but notice you. I think you are stunning." I get her response and then I
say "I wanted to let you know that you are hot, I find you attractive and
it would be great if we had a chance to get to know each other for the
possibility of having great times together and perhaps many nights filled
with passion." That's it. Then she will say "I have a boyfriend," " I am
married," "It takes time for me before I sleep with someone," "I need to be
romanced or know someone better," blah blah blah...... The basis for this
approach is that it fishes out the potential from the non potential right
away. This approach virtually guarantees that you will encounter resistance
but that is the whole point for any resistance she gives you is a way of
her telling you what issues you need to address before she sleeps with you
or agrees to go out. Most men think that resistance or objections equals
rejection and that is why they avoid being up front in favour of being more
subtle, i.e. cocky, funny patterns, etc. To me when a woman says "I need to
get to know a guy better," she is telling me what it will take to get her
and more importantly she is not saying "fuck off, asshole" which is
rejection. Objections and raising of concerns are not rejection. Most
people, though, see any signs of resistance as rejection which it is not.
This, I believe, is where most people draw the wrong conclusions and favour
being anything but up front in the hope of warming her up to you thus
avoiding any resistance later. In my way, you still have to warm her up but
you do it after you make your intent known and this is where I can be
cocky, funny, use patterns, etc. The advantage to my method is that at
least you know what you need to do and you also know whether she is open to
your initial suggestion - this is the key for you do not want to waste your
time if she is not at all interested or never would be no matter what you

Fourier: You make a good point, anything a woman (or any person for that
matter) says is not a solid truth, but rather a reflection of her thoughts
at that moment in time. You are not fazed by them whatever they are, rather
they give you feedback about what she is thinking and with that feedback
you can choose your course of action. (For example: loosen her up, create a
better connection, tone down her attitude...) But I don't agree on melding
this into a strategy just like that. If you tell a girl right away you want
her, sure you can still pull her, and sure many will be pulled, BUT she
would have folded for other more generally applicable methods, too! (and
likely even easier) If we look at this approach objectively, we see that it
raises her self-esteem and puts you in a lower position. Ok, no sweat,
doesn't matter with most chicks (assuming you have sufficient verbal skills
and emotional mastery). But what if you want to nail the girl behind the
bar who gets attention from ALL THE GUYS ALL THE TIME? Or what if you want
to screw a model? By being this blunt, you might blow your chances right
away. Why use a dubious approach, when there are better ones around? Tell
the model you like her leather boots and where she got them because you
want a female friend (with bad fashion sense) to go shop there, too. Tell
the girl sitting next to you in the train that you like her rings and where
did she get them? Always the same thing. IMO, you had a good insight, but
just stash it with the rest of your knowledge... it'll come to you when
> "I tried something like this recently. I met this HB for coffee and we
had a very nice time after grapho deck and some patterns but obviously it
didn't last because I didn't see her again after that. Then after several
months I decided to give her call and I told her I thought we connected
pretty good and I thought she was absolutely beautiful and that I wanted to
be with her.
She said, "I don't know about that because I'm just starting to see someone
who I really like."
Then she told me to call her and I called a few days later and she said she
couldn't talk because she was with her borefriend so I decided to back off
for now and haven't called again.

Fourier: Ok, you blew this one now so let it cool off, maybe call her again
in a few months if you have any reason to want this particular chick, I
mean, there are chicks everywhere. Then again, the mere practice is reason
enough ;-). Call her and tell her that you found her number, and that you
have some vague recollection of having a great convo, let her help you
bring back some memories about it, then tell her that you have to go but
want to continue the 'nice conversation' and that you want to have a drink
with her. Set the date right then and there. If she brings up your botched
phone convo, say "Oh yeah, that was you, I remember" laugh, "How silly..
anyway, when the grapho deck showed "


Mark B.:
Check out Interesting site for being able to
deal with crazy women. This actually put in perspective many things that
happened with me and women in the past that were not my fault.

Here is a scenario that happened to me a few days ago. To all members of
the list, if you have comments and insight as to what she meant and what I
could have done I welcome the suggestions.
I went to Sears (department store) to get some skin foundation for myself.
BTW I am not some cross dresser but I have skin blemishes and when I need
to make an important appearance I prefer to cover them up. This hot looking
girl helped me out who I had asked to join me for lunch before but she said
no. I started off being funny and silly and made some silly sexual innuendo
jokes which she did not appreciate and backed off from me. Then I went
quiet said little but just looked at her and smiled as she rubbed the shit
on my face to see what shade I should get. I listened to her and allowed
her to talk. Her whole demeanor changed. She smiled more all of a sudden
and became more open and friendly. In the end she says "You know, Mark, I
am not this conservative, you know. I know how to have fun and can get
pretty wild at times." I said "what do you mean?" She said "I cannot tell
you because I would not want you to tell all my secrets."
I walked off and then thought "Man, she was obviously making myself
available for me since I did not ask her out after she said no before and
now maybe she changed her mind and wanted to let me know she is open to
having fun." Perhaps this was her way of letting me know I should make a
move and maybe she was telling me rather than tell me she would rather show
me how much fun she likes to have and how wild she can be? I am not very
good at picking up on these things as when they happen I am not sure how to
take them and what to do. Any advice on what she said and what I should do
in these situations?


Gregory Rasputin:
I happened to try Mark's theory on openness about sex, and I have to tell
you it's transforming me. I thought I was the shit for so long, because I
could make up my own patterns, and actually influence girls' thinking. I
thought I was the shit because I'd go for the kiss when I wanted it, and
because I'd have such charming things to say, but I opened a whole new
world for myself when I started just being open. Now, I bet you all think
you're open enough, but take this into consideration: my girlfriend and I
just made out a couple of times, we'd touch each other all the time, but
the sexual activity would have to come in private, when we're alone, and
the mood is worked up. Now, my girl basically wants to screw around all the
time, because I encourage her to be open with me. By telling her how I feel
all the time, she feels greater trust in me, and tells me stuff I've never
heard from girls before. For example, we were making out, and I got an
erection. Normally, I'd just ignore it, but this time following Mark's
advice I just told her. I was like "look at what you did to me", she was
absolutely beaming. Ever since that incident, I'd tell her when I'm horny
any time that I was, and it didn't sound horny or dirty, she knew I was
just being honest and open. Ever since then she'd try to get me turned on
and ask how I'm doing down there, and our relationship got so much better.
Not only that, but as an effect of what I do, she encourages her
girlfriends to be just as open, so my buddies are better off too cuz they
mess with her friends. Everyone here should be that open with their girls,
trust me, it'll make your relationships infinitely less complicated.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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