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"At first I thought it was goofy and supplicating"

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At first I thought it was goofy and supplicating
1/25/02 5:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time

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Seminar list (feel free to send in your schedule for inclusion here):
Meeting Saturday, Jan. 26, 2002 at 7:30  in Montreal.  Special guest will
be David who will do a question and answer session.  Email me for location
information.

Ross Jeffries' (www.speed-seduction.com) Seminar Schedule for 2002 is as
follows:
Los Angeles January 25, 26 & 27
Chicago May 3, 4 & 5
Atlanta July 12, 13, & 14
Montreal August 9, 10 & 11
Palo Alto, Calif. Sept. 13, 14, & 15
He will also be giving his Magick/Psychic Influence Seminars in:
Orlando, Florida March 29, 30, & 31
New York June 7,8, & 9

Major Mark's (website is www.trucor.com) seminar schedule for 2002 will
include:
Feb 22-24 Atlanta -- Advanced Hypnosis: Bringing Deep Trance Resources
Into Conscious Control
Mar 8-12 Bangkok -- Performance Hypnosis: Basic and Advanced
Stage/Public Techniques
May 17-19 Lake Tahoe -- An Introduction To Hypnosis And Influence
Jul 26-28 Montreal -- The Essential Marknosis: Expositions, Exercises,
Inductions and The Alphabet Of Desire
Oct 18-20 Austin -- Build A Better Lover: Conditioning For Enhanced
Emotional And Sexual Responsiveness

Mystery is conducting Sex Magic Workshops in Toronto, New York City and Los
Angeles.
Toronto workshop Jan 24, 25 & 26.
Mystery has added three more workshops in NYC and one in San Francisco.
NYC workshop 1: Feb 1 2 3
NYC workshop 2: Feb 5 6 7
*NEW* NYC workshop 3: Feb 8 9 10
*NEW* NYC workshop 4: Feb 12 13 14
*NEW* NYC workshop 5: Feb 15 16 17
Los Angeles workshop Feb 28, Mar 1 & 2
*NEW* San Francisco workshop Mar 7, 8 & 9
Reserve your spot now (only 6 positions available per workshop) by emailing
mag***[email protected]***.com[ ? ]. For more info, visit

Clifford:  In addition to these locations, Mystery is planning to hold his
workshops in
Fort Lauderdale/Miami, Orlando, Las Vegas, Montreal, Vancouver,
Philadelphia, Dallas, Boise, New Orleans, Sydney (Australia), Glasgow
(Scotland), Chicago, Amsterdam & London (England).

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Toecutter (toe***[email protected]***.com[ ? ]) has moved to Melbourne, Australia from
Montreal and would be interested to meet either PUA's there or any
attractive women who might be interested to meet a suave, sophisticated
mack man.  If you get the chance to hook up with him, do it because he's
quite successful in the bars and can show you some good, practical stuff
that works.

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Major Mark (www.trucor.com):
I've been off doing deep trance exercises in preparation for Atlanta -- but I
DO read my mail in big batches, and I found your mention of the site on my
schedule. And sure enough, the site shows bupkus!
Here is an update of what OUGHT to have been there -- I'll make some calls
and see what happened - looks like we got an inadvertent roll-back.
Things are looking up though -- a new site is actually being built with
better everything, including separate discussion areas for customers and the
public, a monthly e-newsletter, integrated purchasing/registrations,
downloadable clips, etc... plus both print and e-mail campaigns -- if
you're used to what I did last year as marketing, then this year may come as
something of a shock!
We're still doing new topics every time out -- with an integration piece at
our Montreal stop. And Bangkok -- Bangkok is our blow-your-fuses while
learning offering! This year ought to be relaxing and fun.
There's more coming on the Austin event -- I'm still wording it so it's
informative yet not-too inflammatory.

Here's what is written about the Montreal stop:
The Essential Marknosis: Expositions, Exercises, Inductions and The
Alphabet Of Desire
July 26-28 Montreal
Montreal is different. Because it's become glaringly obvious to me over the
years that the primary struggle for most Seekers is NOT to master the arcane
lore of the Masters, whomever they may be, but to instead increase the
amount of time that we spend being Aware. It turns out it's not necessary
to practice the esoteric disciplines designed to induce psychotic breaks in
foreign cultures -- we've got plenty of utilizable stuff right here! The
trick is to become Aware while going about YOUR life -- not to Wake Up only
in some therapy room, dojo or drum circle. To become Aware in real life,
and then stay that way.

So Montreal is about bringing Awareness disciplines into your "everyday"
life. Better even than The Revealed Secrets Of The Ancient Oriental
Masters, Marknosis is a set of mindsets, exercises and practices that I've
proven to work for a broad swath of modern students -- folks from all levels
in life who want clarity of thought, emotional balance and physical health
as a predicate to effective action. Imagine facing opportunities and
challenges, with your full set of skills and resources at your command.
Now, imagine further that the reason you're rested, relaxed and ready is
that you've trained to be that. Now. Imagine that your whole life works
this way!

Coming from me, you can expect lots of hypnotic conditioning combined with
my signature take-home easy to understand/hard to do exercises. The Goal is
to become the sort of person who, when encountering opportunity, is in the
moment and perfectly placed to take advantage of it. At that point, the
exercise of influence becomes absurdly simple. Even the one-eyed man can be
King amongst the Blind.

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Zed:
I'll note also that Major Mark's seminars are listed, and one can register for
them, at http://store.yahoo.com/trucor/

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Ross:
> MB:  He said "Mark, I give them attention and then take it away. I tease
them by letting them know how they get to me and then I shift the topic of
conversation to something else. I am loose and relaxed and try to be funny,
not in terms of telling jokes but in terms of how I overblow things that I
see. This way I give them a huge but very short dose of what they do to me
and then stop and I have them begging for more."  Then I asked him to give
me an example of what he may say to a babe. "Well, I'll see one and tell
her 'Oh my God, you know the instant you walked in here you just took my
breath away and made me glad that I was a man. I feel like there is
something magical about the way you carry yourself that makes me admire you
as a woman" then I quickly shift the conversation to something else.

Ross: In other words, he FRACTIONATES them, just as I teach my students to do.

Ross: Ross reviews the "Kenxtions" system (http://www.Kenxtions.com/)
On a 5 star scale, 1 and 1/2 stars

Ok, let's give the dog its due; some of the openers on one of the cd's in
this "system" are pretty good. And some of the guy's "encouragement" on why
you should get out there and meet people is useful. And he's got ONE really
good comeback for the old "Give me YOUR number" routine.  But I have to
say, most of what this guy is advising, throughout the "PUA" process is
CREATIVE (and at times, ANNOYING) BEGGING.  He actually advises you to say
things like, "C'mon...give me a shot. I'm sure we'll have a great time."
As for handling women on the phone, brrrrrr. It's scary, some of what he
advises. For example, he actually tells you to say, "I'd like to take you
out. What's your schedule like this week?"
Not to strongly suggest a day/place/time, but TO ASK HER WHAT HER SCHEDULE
IS! Translating this from the AFC'ese, what you'd be saying is, "Oh darling
ray of sunshine. I have NO PLANS MYSELF, THIS WEEK. You are the only chick
on my horizon, and I am completely open, WHENEVER YOU ARE."  Then, if she
says she is busy this week, you are told to ask, "Well..how
does NEXT week look?"  There are so many reasons why this is dumb advice, I
scarcely know where to begin. Not the least of which is, you are
broadcasting total availability. We all know how attractive ladies find
THAT in a guy.  And the tonality on the phone examples..holy Jesus and
Mary, it is beyond AFC.
The actual good stuff could have been reduced to a 5 minute
audio-cassette..I would have paid 5 bucks.
Save your money and save your time.

Clifford: For another view on this, here is a review by Poetdude:
Poetdude:
I listened to the KenXtions tape series some time ago, and found them to be
an excellent value and very useful to the newbie and also useful to more
advanced practitioners of the art. Of the 5 tapes (and bonus videotape)
that is in the series, I found the first tape (the
icebreaker/approach phase) and the videotape to be most useful (they
covered mostly the same ground). The first tape basically gives you a
dirt-simple structure to follow in a pickup, emphasizing humor and
non-threatening questions as openers and then giving you the next three
steps leading to a simple phone or meeting close. What I like a lot about
it is that it reduces the approach and close to something so basic that you
just *know* any old idiot can pull it off. In fact, in the videotape, there
is footage of our hero Kenny (the author) approaching a number of fine
nubile things and getting digits from them. This is good, because you take
one look at Kenny, listen to his nasal, decidedly non-Pavarotti voice and
his semi-corny lines, and realize, "If this dweebius can do it, *anyone*
can." And you are correct. My personal take on the effectiveness of his
method is that it's so airily benign and non-threatening that the women
cannot muster any resistance against it -- you can push back against a
wall, but you can't really push against air, y'know? So, simple formula:
funny or observational opener ('what kinda sandwich is that?'), one
non-personal question ('do you like it?'), one personal question ('how long
have you lived here?'), and the closing formula ('Gotta go, but -- if
you're comfortable, we should exchange numbers; we'll go out sometime.')
Ludicrously simple, simply effective.
Of course, the method's strength is also its weakness: a light close like
this is less likely to induce heavy follow-through by the woman. However,
with this structure in your head, you will be approaching so many more
women that your confidence will go way up, you will have more overall
dates, and you'll be able to ditch the training wheels after a while to try
out freakier shit. Besides, it's great for street walk-ups or other times
when you simply have only 45 seconds.
Now the rest of the tapes in the series are a little too gimmicky for my
style, but still have some excellent pointers about basic human
behavior. In the meantime, the first tape and video alone are worth the $25
or so price of admission.

Clifford:  The website seems to show the price is now $59.95 + $5.95
shipping & handling.

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Jake (www.SeduceAnyGirl.com):
There was some talk going on before, about someone creating a video
product, with actual street pick ups. Has this happened?

Clifford: I am not sure who you are referring to but I can't think of
anyone who did this. One of the problems with this is getting releases from
the women to sell their images on tape. Kamal and Orion did two tapes
called Magical Connections (available through Straightforward
www.speed-seduction.com) where they did this but they were indirect
(approaches were for a research study supposedly and they didn't go up to
the girls and tell them what they were really after).
I hear there's a whole genre of porn (I think called gonzo) where guys
approach women with hand held cams and get them to have sex on film - or
something like that. But I don't know any more (just saw it on tv last night).

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NightLight9:
>DB: Anyway, one player who is 35 and worth over 10 million asked her out.
She was talking to her friends about accepting, but she seemed doubtful.
She said the guy wasn't that bright and had little to say, and she did not
find him really appealing. I found her attitude refreshing, but I knew this
is not the norm. Occasionally, these arrogant NFL guys will come and visit
(at least they used to) go to the bars, take any woman that presented
themselves off to
the bathroom for quickie. When push comes to shove, many will fuck fame.

NightLight9: How do you know what the norm is? Most women won't just fuck a
pro ball
player just to do it. There are women who will, but more often than not,
these guys display other attractive traits. Guys are treating them like
gods (social proof, alphamale-ness. They are in great physical shape (and
often good looking in general). That said they still have to work for it in
many cases. I was out with a girl once and A-Rod (makes more than 10 mil a
year, is good looking and is well spoken) tried to pick her up. Her
response: "he has dumbo ears." I've seen this type of response plenty. It
only takes one hot girl to make it look like the sport star had his choice,
right?
I'm not arguing that fame, fortune and good looks are ignored. Some of the
girls that want those things are hot AND are aggressive about getting it.
But look at all the out of work construction workers being supported by
their hot girlfriends while they sit around developing their beer
bellies.  Man, those out of work construction workers have it so easy. The
point is, stop being a whiner and go fuck some hot chicks. Either that or
start practicing your jumper.

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Hypno Bill:
If you have any advice on running a seduction list, please share it with
me. If you want to check it out go to.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheArt/

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DB:
>Christos: Good writing combined with very useful techniques. I also like
the Bluffer's Guide to Fortune Telling book but I am not sure that it is
still in print. I like to use the following lines to loosen girls up in
this kind of scenario:
You are going to have a new experience
You need to be more adventurous
I see a missed opportunity, try something while you have the chance,
otherwise you may not have a similar opportunity
You have a lot of tension and you need a release
You will live to a very old age but you will have lots of serious
illnesses in later life
Of course, I always leave them wanting a little more and then drop in that
I have a tarot deck at home if she is really interested.
I got laid a lot thanks to Rider Waite."

DB: Who is Rider Waite?
>Joseph: Four essential types of men tend to attract women
1) The Daring Adventurer: He's the man who acts impulsively, throws caution
in reckless abandon in order to spontaneously embark on high-stimulation
endeavors. He lives for the moment and holds a vague inkling of the future.
The man's focus is solely for the present and on sheer short-term emotional
pleasure.
2) The Dark Vagabond: He's the man who oozes an almost anti-social
character. With leanings towards the unethical to the downright immoral,
this man is known for womanizing, substance abuse and most activities that
appear to go against social norm. Despite the negativity he attracts both
the sensible and "dumb" blonde kind of girl. Women fantasize about taming
such volatile creatures.
3) The Ideal Lover: Oh yeah, we recognize him for the poetry, the smooth
lines, the sensitivity, the utter empathy and almost selfless focus upon
the woman. He manifests a level of high morality, or at least a superficial
appearance of it. Women love this man because of the intense romancing they
experience from him.
4) The Clown: He may not physically look good, but his upbeat sense of
humor and lively optimism sparks enthusiasm in women which then lead to
infatuation, then attraction. This man, as I've observed in numerous social
gatherings, tends to enjoy the limelight. He cracks jokes, spins incredible
tales and makes everyone feel good. As a result, both genders in general
gravitate towards this individual.
The Man every woman hates:
1) The Vanilla-Boy Next Door: Predictable, routine and devoid of
imagination. He possesses adequate social skills but is neither aggressive,
funny, spontaneous"

DB: This is so true it's scary. every PU I know fits into one of these
types. Although I do not know how you would classify a SSer...Most PU's I
know of are Dark Vagabonds or Clowns....

DB: To RJ or anyone else who is good at insults:
This is a tad off the seduction subject, (this could apply to cockblocks,
husbands, borefriends, etc. however) but does anyone have any sharp insults
that I could use on MEN? I have some insults that I have for gals, but I
need something for men. Something that would work in PU situations or
anywhere else where someone pisses me off.  Also how do you deal with
husbands and bfs? Sometimes I just talk to women to test things out. They
usually look at me interestingly and trancelike because I am an in-depth
person. This usually scares the shit out of their partners, so they always
come up to me and shake my hand and introduce themselves just to let me
know they are watching my every move. You think just because they are
married to the wife they somehow own them. Fuckers!

DROP YOUR PATTERNS, FORGET YOUR BALLBUSTING NO MORE MAGIC TRICKS!
This PU technique is beyond EINSTEIN:
I know this PU (he looks like a male version of Ms. Hathaway from the
Beverly Hillbillies) who has success with the gals. He is a wild and crazy
guy, dances like a bizerko and is funny
(a recipe for PU success). His gimmick is this.....HE GIVES PIGGY BACK
RIDES!! At first I thought it was goofy and supplicating, but then it
dawned on me, it does three important things. :
1. It age regresses the woman back to being a little girl.
2. It shows he is a fun, adventurous guy who is confident and importantly
UNINHIBITED
3. While he is giving the ride, her vagina is rubbing up and down, back and
forth on the boney spine of this son-of-a-bitch. It's kino and anchoring
rolled into one. Plus in German literature, a horse is a symbol of strong
sexuality for all you brainy well read types.
I could see Mystery with a long black cape on prancing around a club with a
HB on his back...
Only problem is that it won't go over too well at a Barnes and Noble.....

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Toecutter:
> Now this is probably going to give me a lot more work, but
Toecutter  commented that he had wanted to say something about a post he
read but by the time he read it, it was already a few weeks old and he
figured that the conversations had moved on. Well, in my opinion, these
conversations are timeless. What would be GREATLY appreciated would be, if
you want to make a  comment (no matter from whichever email it came from)
to just follow the format below. That is, copy the comment you want to
comment on and put the person's name in front of that comment, then make
your comment.

Toecutter:  Cliff, with a special invitation like that how can I not
contribute? I had a lot to say about Mark B. I include what I was thinking
anyway despite the fact that the conversation has moved on since you give
me special permission. I prepared this before I fully read Marks response
saying he has changed his mind about complements. Perhaps some of my ideas
and reactions are useful to some people anyway:
> MB: Me "I think you are stunning. You have great genetic lines and a
great structure"
Her "Thank you that is so sweet"
Me "You know I bet a lot of guys come after you"
Her "Sometimes they do"
Me "Have you always been this attractive or is this something to took time
to develop?"
Her "I am not sure. I just bloomed this way"
Me "I am sure that if you entered a beauty contest you would win. Have you
ever considered?"

Toecutter: Man, this girl is not actually that hot is she? You sound like
you are worshipping her for her beauty. I mean, is she hot? I can see this
on like a 7. Compliments are really bad on hot girls. Here is a question:
How would you feel if a girl you just met started talking like that to you?
Would you feel it is sincere? Would you feel she is a comfortable person
with HSE (high self esteem)? Or would you consider her a fan? Would you
consider her beneath you? I mean, you know that self conscious feeling when
you are being flattered? Like the feeling when everyone is singing "Happy
Birthday" for you and they are all looking at you celebrating your birth.
What do you do in that situation? Do you sing along? See if this girl is
hot, then she gets put into that flattery situation all the time, and the
feeling has bad associations linked to it. Like AFC's who put her on a
pedestal. It is okay for girls who don't often get complimented, but give
me a break. That is not just a conversation about her beauty!
As if it is a natural thing. Man it sounds so false. This conversation
sends shivers down my spine at how bad it is. But apparently it works for
you. It does not fit with my world and my 9 and 9.5 ex's whom obviously I
know very well. This is not the sort of conversation they enjoy. They come
to me and complain about the idiot over there who couldn't get over her
beauty and completely weirded her out. And beyond that, it is just uncool.
>MB: Question what sort of attention? I bet no AFC has told her she looks
hot and he wants her hoping that when he is friendly enough so she makes
the first move. Can you say masturbate? I have boned beauty pageant
winners, exotic feature strippers, former magazine models, fitness
instructors and actresses all with the same technique of being very upfront

Toecutter: Question: you must work very hard at your F(ind) variable. How
do you find these women?
>MB: and direct. I do make a point to let her know her degree of
attractiveness is high but I
also talk to her like a normal woman. I ask her about her job, her
interests, her values, hobbies, etc. and have a normal everyday type of
conversation. The key is relationship with emphasis on the "relation" part
rather than "subservientship" or "underminemyselfship". She is important to
me as a woman which includes her pussy as well as the rest of her.

Toecutter: OK, so you talk about her as a person and the boring things
about her, like her job, etc.? And her hobbies. And then you tell her she
is attractive. And you let her know that you want to get to know her as a
woman? I have no reason to doubt you here, but it sounds AFC to me. Why is
that interesting to her? Why is she speaking back to you? How are you
causing her to become attracted to you? How is any of that any different to
what the AFC's do? I don't get it, but would like to understand. See
because this actually seems contradictory to me. The question Fourier asked
that your above response was to was, "But what if you want to nail the girl
behind the bar who gets attention from ALL THE GUYS ALL THE TIME?" in which
case here is the sort of answer I might expect:
Make friends with the male bartender, then neg her ... the male bartender
laughing with you at her. The two of you are now higher than her, and she
will want to get on top since she is queen of the club and has AFC's
drooling over her all night. Find out from the male bartender which after
hours club they all go to, if any, just so that you are forewarned, and
then work her club. Social proof all the way. Bargirls have ears so bring a
cutey to the bar, and work her right in front of the bargirl while
continuing to give the bargirl a light ribbing to the social proof girl.
Number close her (the social proof girl) and save for later. Now you have
prepared the bargirl. You can then run some quick routines on her if the
bar is not super busy, get your IOI's quickly and then time constrain
number close. Note that for a bargirl, you need to do a more direct close
because she can always say "Well, I am here every Thursday, Friday and
Saturday night from 9 to 3 pm. We can continue the
conversation here." So the close needs to be a closed ended close that does
not let her pull that option. Like after a little yes ladder, "So it is
reasonable if we go ahead and swap numbers, right?" But you had better work
fast because these numbers go stale QUICK. So call her the next day.
But instead you talk about normal boring everyday conversation that she, as
a bar maid, has with EVERY SINGLE DRUNK AFC in the place. They tell her how
hot she is, too. So I think the question was an excellent one. Because we
KNOW that girl is surrounded by AFC's tipping her, and buying her shooters,
and coming back to the bar alone especially to see her, and sitting there
to closing time after all their friends have gone home in an attempt to
pull her ... the AFC's who have no courage to approach, but the girl behind
the bar, hey, that is a different story. So she is the ultimate hot girl as
a litmus test for your modus operandi and those beautiful girls you say you
get. See your technique, as far as I can see would DEFINITELY NOT work on
these girls. Explain how it would work please.
> NightLight9: I'd like to watch you work. I can't do what you described
because when I do, women say no. Maybe it's my looks, maybe it's...

Toecutter: Hey, man. The first rule of being good-looking is your self
talk. You can not say what you have said above to yourself. Never. Never
question your looks or your attractiveness to the opposite sex. Never. That
is modelling a good looking guy. I will tell you what: I hereby dub you all
good looking. You are all good looking and will be for ever after. All of
you! Now go out there and work your charms with the ladies. No more asking
them if you are good looking, no more asking them if you are their physical
type. You assume you are because you know that you are fucking hot! Now
dress well to show off your charms. Dress in the clothes that make you even
better looking. And guess what? You will never get complimented on your
looks. Only by your mothers and girl-friends. And you can't believe them
anyway, right? The best looking guy in the world doesn't get complimented.
So everyone (yes, Ross included), just consider for a second that maybe all
this time you were actually good looking and you didn't know it. Because
you didn't believe your mother, and you didn't believe your girlfriends. I
didn't always know I was good looking. I don't know whether you would
consider me good-looking. I discovered I was good-looking, and it is a
personal discovery ... it is all in the self-talk. No girl can explain it
to you. You have to discover it. I don't put myself on am-I-hot-or-not.com,
and I ask for no feedback. Because I know I am. The only feedback I get
other than from girlfriends is once every 6 months or so I'll get a "oh,
but that is because you are good looking" and that is usually from some
little LSE guy with a chip on his shoulder who probably says it to
everybody. You certainly do not get up in front of an audience full of
people ask a girl 'Now, would I usually be your type physically?' ... what
is she supposed to say? "Yeah, you're hot! I really want to fuck you!"
Sorry, fellas, no-body gets that.
My looks may be to a girls taste, or I may not. She may be into black guys
or she may be into blonde guys or she may be into pretty boys. I don't ask
her. But you are attractive. You are desirable. And these things you
actually test with the opposite sex. And I can tell you that they do find
me desirable because they fuck me. You guys are picking up, too. What more
proof do you need? Girls fuck you because you are attractive men.
(That said, I can not rely on my looks to get women. No one can. If I do
not approach, and if I do not perform well and I do not close properly, I
do not PU. And before you start discounting my opinion on picking up
because I consider myself good looking. STOP. There is no perfume called
"sure fuck". There is no magic pill, and I can not skip steps. The fact you
tell me I can tells me that in YOUR ATTITUDE you are an ugly man. And that
changes the texture of the exchange between you and a woman. Until you are
an attractive man in your mind, you can not judge me).
> NightLight9: The reality is that women's opinion on looks changes as
they interact with you. So being OK looking is plenty if you can open well
and attract.

Toecutter:  I agree with you completely here. What is a good-looking male
anyway? Clear skin? Sparkling eyes? Straight teeth? Symmetrical face? Well
dressed? Healthy? That is like 90% of the male population, isn't it?
Including all my good-looking readers here. Women consider Bill Clinton
good looking! I mean what are these people really talking about when they
talk good-looks? Have you seen some of the skinny, FUNNY LOOKING guys they
use as models in like Vogue, Homme, and GQ? Funny looking! Some of them
look like the heroin addict I saw passed out in a public toilet today. I
don't know what good looks in a guy mean. Every guy is potentially
good-looking in my books. They just don't know how.
>NL9 continues: Anyway, I # closed an ex-model the other night who has
been talking to me on phone regularly (she's a little f-ed up so I'm
keeping my distance sarge wise). She said she thought I was insecure about
my looks (which I didn't think was true, but that kind of think is hard to
say for
sure), regardless, it doesn't matter if I am or not. I gave out the vibe
that I was.

Toecutter: To me it sounds like a shit test, more than anything. A neg. I
think a shit test come back was what was called for. Punish her for it.
First laugh at it, then tell her that was a weird thing to say. Ask her if
her parents taught her any manners. Ask her if she thinks she is weird. Say
"you are not very good around people, are you?"
> NL9: So the question is, how do you model being a (cool) good looking
guy (who has been one for a while)? I know much of our general PUA theory
is actually fairly similar to a model of this. Qualify her, assume the
sale, etc. However, what about how good looking guys really think about
themselves?

Toecutter: I think maybe cool and good-looking are similes in a guy. I
didn't always consider myself good looking, but I had little question in my
mind that I was cool. I always was. So what does it mean to be cool? It is
not what you wear but the way you wear it. It is not being intimidated by
anyone at all in any situation. It is about meeting other cool people and
looking them in the eye, and they know that you are cool, too, because you
are not scared and they can tell. And you know they are cool because they
are not intimidated by YOU. Those intimidated by you have this look in
their eye like you are about to lay judgement on them. Cool people don't
have that look. It is about being comfortable with what you wear. It is
about being comfortable with who you are. It is about not getting overly
excited at stupid things in a conversation. It is about knowing what topics
of conversation are interesting (cool) and what are not. It is about seeing
when people are tuning out and changing the topic to something that
everyone is interested in. It is about knowing how to take a risk socially,
and doing it with confidence and style. It is about having a certain
fluidity and confidence in the way you move and talk. It is about saying
something outrageous because it is outrageous, not because you are socially
inept. I think NightLight9 is already cool. I think this girl gave him a
shit test.
>NL9 continues: Being a good looking guy must have a whole set of similar
problems and pitfalls.

Toecutter: One thing that a super smooth guy (good looking?) will cause in
a woman is that very same anticipatory anxiety that we feel when
approaching an attractive woman. They are uncomfortable. They start looking
over their shoulders to run to a more comfortable conversation with a less
intimidating conversational partner. So the opener and first couple of
minutes can be harder. Same as the other way around (like the opener is
harder for me with a beautiful woman because I am in a STATE that I have to
squash and treat her like she nothing). So a good looking guy has to work
harder to make the girl comfortable with him. Another thing is, he can over
qualify himself. Sounds silly, I know, but if you are too smooth and you
intimidate her, she asks herself "Why me? Why me instead of any of these
other girls?" So it is a self esteem issue on their part. Of course this is
not a problem with the HSE girls who are your good targets anyway.
>NL9 One thing's for sure: good looking guys don't think about being good
looking. They think about getting what they want. They know how they look
is a feature of the terrain involved. You might want to start incorporating
this into your model of the world since you are a good looking guy.

Toecutter:  Again, change good-looking to cool. And yes, cool guys do think
a little about what would be cool and what would be uncool. Especially when
shopping for clothes. They go "wow, look at this cool shirt". Or in a
social situation. But one thing is for sure: someone cool never doubts that
they are cool. Not for a moment. It is stitched into their fibre. They are
not "try hards". They do not try hard at anything. Everything seems
effortless. I think it is that effortlessness cool is what you want to model.
> NightLight9: I think you may be onto something. I'm beginning to piece
this (Mark's MO) together I think, and I also think I'm beginning to see
how it works. There is the Woody Allen AFC way most guys compliment a
woman. It's like they dropped a bomb and now they are waiting for it
explode. "You are soooo beautiful." Sincerest puppy dog look. This does not
work (until you are in a relationship with them, even then I'm not sure how
effective it is). Mark is not doing this, I don't believe. His compliment
is almost a challenge (not an overt or intentional one). He doesn't sit
there and gage the reaction to see how she's taking it and to see if it
"worked". He just continues with his conversation like it was normal for
him to say this (not like he says it everyday, but like it wasn't some event).

Toecutter:  I think 2 concepts need to be separated: NEEDINESS from DESIRE.
Women prefer men who don't need them. What NightLight9 describes above is
compliments that come from a place of NEED. You are allowed to show desire
if it has absolutely no neediness component to it. The best of MB's
compliments are pure desire with no neediness. That is the key. (At the
same time, I don't compliment and think it is not a good way forward).

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Kit:
Michael Tyson, maniac, nice guy

Proving the nice guy image deal once again...(who gets kissed?)
The news conference began when Tyson, wearing all black, including a
leather hat, was introduced first. He strode on stage at the Hudson Theater
and then stared in the direction of where Lewis was supposed to appear.
When the champion walked out, Tyson quickly walked toward him.
A Lewis bodyguard pushed Tyson and then touched him again. Tyson threw a
left hook and a Lewis bodyguard went down, although it wasn't clear if
Tyson connected. Lewis threw an overhand right that apparently glanced off
the top of Tyson's head and left a cut at his hairline.
The two fighters then rolled briefly on the stage, which suddenly was
filled with jumping, falling bodies and flying fists. Lewis promoter Gary
Shaw said he was also hit several times.
WBC president Jose Sulaiman was knocked unconscious in the fight when he
hit his head on a table. He was treated at a hospital for a concussion
before being released.  ``Today's events are but one of the very many
instances that have recently taken place that degrade boxing,'' Sulaiman
said. ``It would be discriminatory to single out Mike Tyson because many
other boxers have behaved similarly at other press conferences.''  After
things quieted down, Tyson walked to the front of the stage, and thrust his
arms in the air in triumph, then grabbed his crotch.  Someone shouted,
``Put him in a straitjacket.'' Tyson then gestured at the man and cursed
him. Tyson left the theater without answering questions. Instead, he
strolled around the block and stopped to sign autographs. A few women
kissed him.

Kit: Ha

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Mark B.:
Two sites for using scarcity and other psychological techniques in
persuasion.........
http://www.qontent.com/questware/questions.cfm?segment=1213
http://www.qontent.com/questware/segment.cfm?segment=1203&question_id=4044&from_segment=1213


Thanks to all those who commented on my little scenario with the makeup
counter girl. I have not yet been back there but will make the track
sometime soon and take another round at it and of course let you all know
what happens.
Regarding my failed miscue on Friday night and Saturday morning, I adjusted
my technique with the same HB and banged her silly on Sunday evening into
the morning. No problems this time around as I focused on comments on how I
felt about her beauty, her fucking ability and other qualities and what
they did to me rather than just making general comments on her looks, etc. She
took exceptionally well to those and I did not even have to ask her to get
naked - she just did after I said "when I look at you I feel incredible
desire to make love to you, you turn me on like you would not believe" -
and off went her clothes. (insert huge sigh of relief here).
Regarding my little sister, she is now in a full blown relationship with
her new guy and she could not be happier. She says that he totally fulfills
her as a woman and she has never felt more happy and more feminine in her
life.  He takes charge and totally satisfies her sexually. In fact, when I
saw her a few weeks after she began sleeping with him she looked different
- more womanly, older and more refined, more calm and poised and confident.
I guess that all those new orgasmic hormones she is releasing are doing her
well.  She says that for the first time in her life she feels wanted,
appreciated, and fulfilled. She said this guy allows her to be open
sexually by talking dirty to her, phone sex, mutual masturbation,
provocative dressing as well as allowing her to be totally open in the
bedroom. I am so happy for her. She has studied psychology at the
University of Toronto so I decided to ask her more about the scarcity
principle. I asked her why it seems to be better to frame what you want in
terms of loss prevention rather than opportunity for gain. From her
psychology background she said, "Mark when you describe a gain people
automatically tend to associate all sorts of negative consequences with
taking that gain and may be reluctant to take advantage of
it. Even if you attack those consequences they may still not want to take
advantage of your gain. But when you frame what you want in terms of loss
prevention, there is less negative connotation associated with what you
suggest as the person is not focusing on the possible drawbacks. And by
focusing on the possible drawbacks, you are much more likely to motivate
the person to act as they do not want to lose what they could already
have". So the key here seems to be to focus on what they already have or
what they could have and then on the possible loss of that and then
positioning yourself as the one that could prevent that loss. I thought
what if I was to think that whichever HB I see that I could already be
boning her but I will never find out if I do not approach her - seems more
motivating than imagining myself going up to her and getting her number and
also the terrible consequences of getting shot down. Or the next one I go
up to, I could already be boning her and if I do not approach her I never
find out or something like that....Same with HB's. We could suggest to them
that they could have a great time with us and if they do not go forth they
could lose out and so on. I will try this out in the field and report the
results.

This morning on the radio coming into the office I heard the Toronto police
are searching for a man who has been randomly kissing strangers, both men
and women on the street. He is described as well dressed, he strikes up a
conversation with people, offers to shake their hand and then once he has a
grip on their hand he pulls them close and kisses them. People have
complained as a result of the unwanted act and police are looking to arrest
him for public misconduct. If anyone has any information on the whereabouts
of this man they are advised to call police.
Do you think that perhaps someone on our list has taken then idea of the
kiss close a little too far?

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MindAuger:
> NEEDHELPBAD: I'm a young guy but I've been having the disastrous
"erectile disfunction" problem quite often for some time. Is there anyone
who has experienced this problem before? Right now I use Viagra but I don't
want to get stuck using it for the rest of my life. I've been to
psychotherapy (I'm quite confident that this is psychogenic and not
physiological) before but it
wasn't useful (probably specific therapist related) and I really feel stuck
(and actually quite desperate for a solution). I would really appreciate
help with this.

MindAuger: Okay, first of all I don't think this is psychogenic. The very
first thing you have to do is understand DOCTORS MAKE MISTAKES. The main
reason I say that is because apparently Viagra works for you, and it is NOT
supposed to work with psychogenic ED. I've read that 85% of ED problems are
related to DIET. That was the case with me about four years ago. I went to
the doctor and he said it would take at least nine months of therapy to get
over the problem. I said "fuck that!" and went on the net to research ED.
What I found was that there are a LOT of vitamins,
nutrients, and amino acids that have to ALL be in place for an erection to
work. If your diet is missing any of them, you could be in trouble. My
problem was I was deficient in tyrosine, a precursor to dopamine, a
neurotransmitter responsible for pleasure. Once I added this (as a
supplement) to my diet, problem solved! In fact, I started taking
supplements of all the required components, including choline/pantothenic
acid (for essential acetylcholine), folic acid, calcium/magnesium,
tyrosine, b-complex. Plus also some extras like ginkgo biloba, ginseng,
and DHEA. Finally I added Jumex/Deprenyl (a prescription drug, actually,
that clinically extended life of rats by 40%) and GHB.  The final result of
all this is that I went from erectile disfunction to
being hornier than I'd ever been in my life, with a capacity for sex that
was about 5x what I had before. Perhaps the point is, don't take doctors at
their word. Remember, my doc said it would take 9 months of therapy to
overcome my ED. If I'd taken his advice, I would never have discovered
the truth. If you take it to heart that is it NOT psychogenic (and
believing it is MAKES it psychogenic, even if it's not!) then you're as
good as cured. I was in the exact same place as you, doctor told me the
same thing... and simply because I realized that 85% of ED is diet related,
I figured "I'm part of that 85%!!!!!" and solved it. And how! Now it's your
turn.

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SilentK: I have recently decided to give up any intention or efforts to
meet/attract women, period. I totally admire you guys doing this stuff, and
wish you all the success you desire. For myself, I feel like the best thing
for me is to just feel good about myself -- even thinking about this area
feels like a pain, and I'd rather not do it. I want to leave you with one
thing though--I still have this belief (Sisonyph touched on it) that you
can have anything you want in your life. I also believe that the way to do
so (or one way, at least) is through changing your energy and emotions and
beliefs. And the BEST WAY I have come across, in three years of studying
this stuff, and spending thousands of dollars, trying NLP, hypnosis, etc.,
is EFT--www.emofree.com. I learned about it through this list, and I am so
happy I did. You can use it to "tap away" the negative beliefs and "tap in"
the positive ones. I know some people love hypnosis, but I always felt like
I was battling myself when I did self-hypnosis, and EFT feels like the most
awesome relief, totally natural. But don't believe me, I haven't touched a
girl in almost two years!  A successful bro Albert recommended it, and you
can read the awesome fucking case study at
http://emofree.com/cases/selfimag.htm or just look around the website for
yourself. It is totally free, and you can try it out on a simple, small
issue, and see how it works for you. As I am getting happier in my life, I
want to allow others a chance to have what they want. I wish you the best.
Personally, I will continue tapping on "I choose to do what feels good for
me" and "I choose to follow my own guidance" and am enjoying it. Thanks to
all you inspiring folks, and I am especially glad to have talked to David
and Steve Piccus--different guys who laid lots of women and had an
interesting commonality--they follow their own guidance, and they enjoy
being themselves. Oh, and Nightlight9--I love your stuff, but what I REALLY
want to know is what you think your bro's (Zen Slacker) key
attitudes/mindset is. Stephane, I love how you are enjoying yourself so
much! And Cliff, I want to hear about your divorced friend, who just has a
good time, and is outgoing, and meets all the women--what is his
mindset/attitude do you think? Maybe one day I will have success with
women, but I am certainly not willing to feel bad to do so! Success and
good times to you.

Clifford:  My friend's mindset is to just have fun all the time (but he is
serious when he has to be).  Remember, he's 50 years old, been married
twice (10 years the first time, 12 the second) and has a lot of experience
under his belt.  He also follows the rule "who cares what they think" and
just goes out to enjoy himself.  And as for you, I just think you probably
put a lot of pressure on yourself and just need a break.  Cause I am sure
you aren't giving up on women altogether...  One thing I always keep in
mind when I see or read about people who are more successful than I am (in
anything) is that there is always better and there is always worse.  If you
look around you, you are sure to see people in much worse situations, not
only those that are in better situations.  That is not to say that you
don't keep working on improving and going for your goals, but don't let
where you are at the moment upset you.

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cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.

NON SEDUCTION-RELATED:

RECOMMENDED:

One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from alt.seduction.fast, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.

NOT REVIEWED YET:

Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):

 

[all words] [any words]

INFORMATION ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER ARCHIVE:
This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

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