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The balls-to-the-wall, straight up, direct style of a
1/31/02 4:28:31 PM Eastern Standard Time


Seminar list (feel free to send in your schedule for inclusion here)

Ross Jeffries' ( Seminar Schedule for 2002 is as
Chicago May 3, 4 & 5
Atlanta July 12, 13, & 14
Montreal August 9, 10 & 11
Palo Alto, Calif. Sept. 13, 14, & 15
He will also be giving his Magick/Psychic Influence Seminars in
Orlando, Florida March 29, 30, & 31
New York June 7,8, & 9

Major Mark's ( seminar schedule for 2002 will include
Feb 22-24 Atlanta -- Advanced Hypnosis Bringing Deep Trance Resources
Into Conscious Control
Mar 8-12 Bangkok -- Performance Hypnosis Basic and Advanced
Stage/Public Techniques
May 17-19 Lake Tahoe -- An Introduction To Hypnosis And Influence
July 26-28 Montreal -- The Essential Marknosis Expositions, Exercises,
Inductions and The Alphabet Of Desire
Oct 18-20 Austin -- Build A Better Lover Conditioning For Enhanced
Emotional And Sexual Responsiveness

Mystery is conducting Sex Magic Workshops in New York City and Los Angeles.
Mystery has added three more workshops in NYC and one in San Francisco.
NYC workshop 1 Feb 1 2 3
NYC workshop 2 Feb 5 6 7
*NEW* NYC workshop 3 Feb 8 9 10
*NEW* NYC workshop 4 Feb 12 13 14
*NEW* NYC workshop 5 Feb 15 16 17
Los Angeles workshop Feb 28, Mar 1 & 2
*NEW* San Francisco workshop Mar 7, 8 & 9
Reserve your spot now (only 6 positions available per workshop) by emailing
mag***c@er***.com[ ? ]. For more info, visit

Clifford  In addition to these locations, Mystery is planning to hold his
workshops in
Fort Lauderdale/Miami, Orlando, Las Vegas, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver,
Philadelphia, Dallas, Boise, New Orleans, Sydney (Australia), Glasgow
(Scotland), Chicago, Amsterdam & London (England).

Arte's "Discover New Sex" Seminar
This unique, no-holds-barred course will lead you to a deeper erotic
connection with your lover(s), and forever change the way you think about
and experience sex.  With frank language, detailed instructions, and video
demonstrations, Arte will show you how to have sex that is much more
intense than "regular" sex, on both physical and emotional levels.
You'll learn
€ How to lead your partner to the ultimate orgasm, male and female...
€ Thrills of female ejaculation, & how to make it happen for any woman...
€ How to experience simultaneous orgasms and ejaculations every time!
€ Exotic massage techniques...
€ Physical positions that make sex more intense and satisfying...
€ Ultimate Male Orgasms ‹ including male multiple orgasms...
€ The New Sex Techniques....
€ And more.
Discover exciting new ideas and sensual strategies
sure to spice up your love life!
Los Angeles Feb 5, signup @
San Diego Feb 11, March 14, April 18, May 14
Sign up @


Last Saturday, I met David at Tristan's place during an evening organized
by Cliff and brother Kermit (aka Frank). It was great to meet everyone and
to finally be able to put faces behind the different nicknames or email
addresses that I see here or on the SS list. Dave shared with us
his perception about male/female relationships, gave us some tips on how to
approach women and made us laugh on many occasions. Dave is a very funny
guy, a great story teller. He told us so many stories that have happened to
him or to some of his friends (including a funny anecdote about Cliff :-).
I appreciated every minute of my evening over there.
 From my understanding, here are the key elements of Dave's teaching:
Dave gave us great frames on how to perceive women.  Don't be ashamed of
your desires. If you notice a sexy girl, don't be ashamed to look at her.
You're not the only one to have noticed her. The girl is probably the best
person to know it. It is not as if she did not look herself in the mirror
before going out. Be honest about how she makes you feel and about your
intentions. Most girls are attracted by honesty and they are not used to
that so she will be attracted to you. If she does not like your honesty,
too bad for her, go to the next girl. This is so simple that I feel a
little bit silly that I had to meet Dave to understand that.
He gave us concrete examples of that principle. A guy present told us that
if for instance he was going in a store and has many thoughts in his mind
and he sees a hot girl in an unexpected moment, he might not approach her
because he would not be necessarily in the right frame of mind.  Dave
suggested him to just say her "Look, I'm busy right now, I have many things
to think about at the moment and I'm not in the right frame of mind now to
meet you. Why don't you give me your phone number so that we can talk when
I'll be in the right frame of mind?"
It's as shockingly simple as that. By externalizing our thoughts out loud
to a girl, we're sincere with her and she will not have heard that line
from anyone else,  for sure.  This is much better than reciting something
she may have already heard.  The most important is that there is nothing
more simple than that.
I have blown off many opportunities by not having done that before. For
example, on many occasions, I saw a very attractive girl but I resisted the
desire to go meet her because I thought she might be too young.  It would
have been simple to just ask her 'how old are you because I want to know if
you're old enough before flirting with you?'  In my mind, before meeting
Dave, before approaching a woman, there was a set of conditions that had to
be met before I approached the woman. There were good and bad setups for
meeting women. A bar is a good setup. At work, it isn't because of possible
sexual harassment problems, etc... What Dave made me realize is that there
are no such setups. If there is something that makes you feel
uncomfortable, be honest about it and just tell her. "Look, I find you
attractive, I want to know you but right now, there is X that makes me feel
uncomfortable." It might work, it might not work, but there is nothing to
lose by saying it and there is everything to win.
Dave also mentioned having honesty in our intentions. What is the purpose
to hide your intentions when it is obvious to you and to the girl what is
really going on? Why would
you invite a girl to your place to show her your photo album when in fact
you want to show her something else...?
At one moment, Tristan was explaining that he wants to talk with a chick
about anything as long as the outcome is that he get her in bed. Guess what?
Dave suggested him to just tell her this "Look, I want to talk with you
about anything as long as we spend a passionate night together. What do you
want to talk about?" We laughed a good time with this suggestion but the
more you think about it the more it makes sense. I never think about being
so blunt but why not?
To wrap up, in SS jargon, by being honest about your intentions, you set up
a frame that the chick has to live with. If you approach a girl and tell
her that you don't play games when you meet a girl and she tells you that
she does not play games either, later during the evening when you propose
to her to bring her back to your place and she replies that she does not do
that on the first date, you can remind her answer when you asked her if she
plays games with men. Also, by being honest, you'll override her automatic
answers since she's not used to that treatment.
I might just need some clarifications about Dave's first rule which is
something like don't listen what a girl says but look what she does, or
something like that. I remember that Dave mentioned on many occasions that
this was the most important rule. In fact, THE rule but afterwards, I've
realized I'm not sure that I have a complete grasp of the idea.
Is it something like don't care about comments like 'I'm not that kind of
girl' and process the seduction as you would do with any other woman?

Clifford:  The rule is "who cares what she thinks" and do and say what you
want to do and say.


> MB: I think some of your comments border on the super extreme. According to
you, a guy is either a super champ PUA or a total AFC with nothing in
between. Well, just as there are 60 home run hitters there are also 50, 40,
30, 20 and 10 and ones that hit below 10 per season - yet most of them make
millions nonetheless. According to you, one should either be the ultimate
superstar or he is a piece of crap. Well, guys that are super super super
stars are in fact extremely rare and are statistical anomalies and to
suggest that unless you are a statistical anomaly you are a total AFC is
unfair to the scores of guys out there who work hard and get results for

Toecutter: Okay, so what are you saying? Are you saying that you are not a
great PUA, but do okay? Because if you are constantly picking up and
closing women like beauty pageant winners, exotic feature models and what
ever else it is that you say you are constantly getting, that to me would
mean that you are claiming to be the best of the best. Because these women
are the best of the best and you have your choice of them. So are you a guy
who does okay, or are you a guy who can teach us all an enormous amount of
stuff? I have no reason to doubt you, and thus I feel you are not
communicating what it is that you do. See I am interested in hearing about
it. Because I don't believe you wear "Sure Fuck" after shave, and I don't
believe you do it on your looks. Not with hot women anyway. The desperate
"Lame ducks" is a club, I have no issue with. But those beauty pageant
winners and models and celebrities and stuff ... they are the ones that I
am interested how you get. And you have not told me anything I haven't
heard before from AFC's yet.
> MB: Making comments on a woman's beauty is a test of her interest in you
in my view. To me, when I compliment a woman on her looks or more
importantly now when I tell her how her overall presence affects me, I am
in essence expressing my potential physical interest in her and if she
responds favourably then it's a sign for me to continue and go further.

Toecutter: Okay, so you are saying you play a numbers game only. You walk
up and PING.
You: "Hi, I think you are really beautiful. Can I buy you a drink?"
Her: "Well, thank-you. And yes, I`ll have a Kamikaze, please"
You: "Coming right up, so what is your name?" etc.
Is this what you are saying? You PING her, hoping that she will PONG you
back? And when she does, you move up the sexual aggression?
> MB: Where are you meeting these women? Women who are not interested in
themselves nor women who have no interest in those that have interest in them?

Toecutter: No, man ... you said you talk about her job, and her hobbies,
etc. See, this style of conversation is the style of conversation that you
might have with her father when you meet him. "So what do you do? Oh, Bank
Accountant ... that is interesting... Oh, so you are into fly fishing.
Well, I don't mind a bit of sea fishing every now and again myself, so
where do you go fly fishing?"  See my point here? This is just
conversation. It is the same conversation she has with anyone who tries
really hard to make conversation with her. It in no way attracts her to
you. It is regular, boring, I-have-this-conversation-with-my-dentist style
uninteresting conversation. So it is definitely not the conversation that
attracts these super hot women to you. I want to know what it is.
> MB: Wow, I would like to know where these women are since I could just
treat them like crap and get laid three times per day everyday. Over and
over again, I feel it does not really come down to what you do but how you
do it. The key here is confidence. Ross' SS works for him and others who do
it with confidence as well as DD's DYD works for others who use it
confidently. This is why I feel that a discussion about techniques must be
qualified by saying that in order to make this work do it with confidence.

Toecutter: No argument. However, let me qualify that. When I am on an
absolute flood, like there are women everywhere in my life and I just can't
get a rest. When I am working hard to make sure no two ever run into each
other, and on top of my confidence, this is the time that you are talking
about right? Well, I still find that if I walk up to a girl and say "Hi, my
name is Henry and I work in accounts receivable" or whatever, it does not
work half as well as if I say "Hi ... did you see those two chicks fighting
on Main St. just before? It was full on. So check this out ...they were 2
little blonde chicks, looked like university student types. And we didn't
see how it started, but one was on top of the other and ...." See, I can be
confident» as I like, but if I don't approach, I won't PU, and if I don't
perform well, I won't PU. And if I don't close (and when you are confident
a close can be as simple as "Lets go!"), I won't PU. So there is definitely
technique there. I am asking you what your technique is. I don't think it
is an unfair question given the nature of the e-mail list. Why won't you
tell us?
> MB: You could have the best negs, the best lines, the bartender is your
best friend but if your delivery lacks power and confidence you are dead in
the water.

Toecutter:  Absolutely no argument with you there. I agree that it is
mostly in the attitude. Negs have the right attitude built into them. It is
impossible to not do a neg right if the words are right. And the attitude
is congruent with the words. And therein perhaps lies the answer. Maybe you
are contradictory. Perhaps you talk about this banal boring stuff, but let
your eyes wander over her body. Perhaps you don't let her tread on your
toes, but AFC stuff like compliments and worshipping her and putting her on
a pedestal come out of your mouth. Perhaps she is not sure how to take you.
But now I am putting words in your mouth. I'd rather have you explain it
since I have never seen you work and am searching around in the ambiguous
gaps between your words to try to invent and fill in the PUA details myself
to make the quality of the women you are getting AND everything else you
have written plausible. I want you to do it.
> MB: As much as I hate to admit this, I feel that we are not as much
responsible for our success in the sense of making things happen as we
think we are.

Toecutter:  So are you saying you have no technique, but rather just "get
lucky"? This sounds so AFC to me. Like really, really, AFC. "Just be
yourself, and knock on enough doors and talk about her and her hobbies and
tell her she is good looking and the women will come into your life because
they will recognize the special person that you are inside." I mean with
all these approaches that you do, have you never experimented with
different stuff? Have you never seen that if you do one thing you do well,
and if you do another you do badly? Have you never walked away from a
situation kicking yourself because you stuffed it up with some particular
thing? Like you knew you could have had that chick if you had done
something differently or said something differently? Can you not diagnose
your own errors and pass on some of the stuff you have learned in the
process? I mean with all those approaches and all the lessons learned so
that you are now pulling the creme-de-la-creme of women in society, you
would think, at the end of the day, you would have some technique, and some
piece of advice you could share with us that does not sound exactly like
what the guy next door who never gets laid says about women. There is
something you are not telling us here. I would like it if you could share it.


> Darren: I just finished the Sex Magic Workshop this past Saturday in
Toronto (the workshop took place January 24-26). Here is my outing report
and review on it. It is fairly long and detailed, but I want to cover all
the major points of the workshop. For the lazy bums among you, skip ahead
to my summary at the end. Any comments and feedback on my report would be

Ross: Don't know why Mys calls it "Sex Magick" as it seems to have nothing
to do with it, other than using stage magic as a prelude to finding a woman
with whom to have sex...but is my point:
It seems like Mys' methods can be summed up with these major understandings:
In a group setting, it is important to establish social proof and be viewed
by the target as being accepted by the group.
Therefore, rather than approaching the hottie straight on, attempting a one
on one, first work your way into the attention of the group. Make friends
with the guys, the warpigs, ugs, be the life of the party in general. This
also helps to disarm obstacles.
Once you do get the hotties' attention, don't be too eager. Neg her a bit,
if need be. If you can move on to other women and come back to her, do
so.  Only after you have done these things, take her aside for some one on one.
This seems to be the basics of it....I can see applications elsewhere....


> Clifford: I hear there's a whole genre of porn (I think called gonzo)
where guys approach women with hand held cams and get them to have sex on
film - or something like that. But I don't know any more (just saw it on TV
last night).
> PF: You could never do it in the States because of releases and all the
shit to avoid lawsuits, but I can't think of any reason it couldn't be done
in some other countries. The Japanese have those nanpa (street nanpa)
videos so it should be possible to do it other places. There is porn in the
US which pretends to be real pickups but most of them are obviously staged.
> Clifford: I can't see any reason why someone couldn't do it, tape it and
afterwards ask for a release. The worst thing that can happen is that the
girls says no, so you just have to do more useable ones until you have
enough to fill a tape. My thinking is that if these pick ups are successful
it should mean that the girl liked the way the guy did things and probably
shouldn't have objections. Most attractive women have a little
exhibitionist in them also, so it would surprise me if you had many
refusals to give releases.

Nova: Tell them your working on producing an HBO special ; ), they'll
probably sign. And you are, working on producing a special which you may
eventually sell to HBO. Think taxi cab confessions.  I still say it's more
trouble then it's worth. However, using a hand held camera in plain view
isn't completely bad. I've had success using a small hand held video camera
as a variation on Mystery's digi camera routine during PU's. Just be
lighthearted, make her a bit shy under the camera's gaze, and do a
surrogate interview ; ), get her to start following you around and doing
things for the camera. Always gets a good reaction when you "show" her this
cool new video camera you bought today. It's different if nothing else, but
you can do just fine without the 500$ camera around.


>Gregory Rasputin: Hey, well this isn't me whining that I can't get it up.
I can get it up, but not much further from there. I don't know what my
problem is, but my girl jerked me off for one and a half hours straight and
I was just hard, but I wouldn't come. I wore her out, and she really wanted
me to come. I don't know if it's my diet, if it is, then please someone
tell me what I shouldn't eat, and what I should eat for better sperm count,
and such. Also, what kind of mind tricks would you suggest for better
control of my buddy?

Ciz: Re: Common Questions on Diet and Sexual Performance
A lot of questions have been coming up with people asking what to eat in
their diet to get better erections, with Greg Rasputin the most recent.
With regards to Rasputin having delayed orgasm, commonly that is caused by
medications -- various ones including analgesics, and many, many others.
There is no magical diet for sex. It is more about what to avoid, than what
to eat. Ground up desiccated wild boar testicle or Southeast Asian Yak
horns aren't going to make you a porn star, nor can any of these folk
remedies hold the jockstrap of Viagra for those who really need Viagra-like
intervention. Simply, avoid alcohol, smoking, caffeine (vasoconstrictive),
soy products (and other phytoestrogens), and any medication which adversely
affects sexual function (a long list..) and never mix carbohydrates with
fat -- fat with protein is good, carbohydrates with protein is good. Also,
stay away from bicycle seats as this can compress nerves which enable
penile function and avoid pelvic and genital injuries at all costs.
Also common medications to avoid are pseudoephedrine, ephedrine,
antihistamines, cimetidine, opiodes, heroin, marijuana, amphetamines,
corticosteroids, heart and blood pressure medications, and all psychotropic
medications and anti-depressants, certain anabolic steroids, especially
without taking clomiphene citrate to upregulate endogenous testosterone
production, and, of course, avoid any type of estrogen and progesterone.
>Mark B.: MB: Intriguing story. I was once in a situation where I got hot
and heavy
on a couch with a woman who did not object to me kissing her or putting my
fingers inside her or sucking on her nipples. But after I pulled them out
of her to lick them to show her I wanted to see what she tastes like
inside, she freaked and accused me of taking her pants off while she was
sleeping. I think this may have been because she had a very strong scent
that night and
may have been embarrassed over it. This was our first date and she said she
was not into that kind of relationship. This scared the living shit out of
me because I thought for sure she would press charges. But after that she
later said she was not into bringing guys home and fucking them on the
first date - she really did not want to look like a cheap slut. Question to
all of you on the list is if a woman makes these false accusations does she
do so with a sense of guilt even though she knows they are false? Would she
also have a problem facing the guy she made the false accusations against?
Also, why do they do this - why not just come out and tell the truth that
they are not into it at the moment rather than making themselves look like
total confused idiots.

Ciz: Luckily, I think it's because you live in Canada that you don't need
to worry about such things like U.S. PUA's need to. Canada has a 5-6 time
less incarceration rate than the USA. Also, under Canadian law, disputed
sexual encounters without evidence of violence can be prosecuted as
misdemeanors, if at all, whereas in most States, you're looking at a 5-10
year mandatory minimum. Effectively, the States have de facto outlawed sex
outside of marriage based on the ephemeral word of a chick. You think the
Taliban beating people (both partners) who fornicated and stoning
adulterers (both partners) was bad, but this is worse -- because the
criminal prosecution is not triggered by anything the defendant does but
what the "victim" perceives or is coerced into perceiving by a friend or
counsellor. It is the only crime in which criminal intent is determined by
the victim's state of mind and not the accused's. Think about it, we don't
take chicks at their word to tell the truth about their name and age (hence
identification cards/drivers licenses), we don't take chicks at their word
when naming putative fathers for child support cases (hence DNA testing),
yet we do take them at their word for some various serious criminal cases,
majority of which are at root highly suspicious bogus allegations
unsubstantiated by independent witness testimony or evidence.

Lets take bets on that Asian guy in Toronto. Probably will get some sort of
psychological counselling from a sympathetic Canadian judge, whereas in the
US he would surely get a prison term.

In fact, this girl felt very ashamed she caused all these problems, and she
was responsible for everything. In fact, she found her life totally ruined
and now completely avoids police, police stations, detectives, county
attorneys, rape crisis centers and forgets all about calling 911 --
because in the end, the government ruined everything for her and caused her
to feel very ashamed, bad, ugly, and stupid.....
>MB:Question to all of you on the list is if a woman makes these false
accusations does she
do so with a sense of guilt even though she knows they are false?

Ciz: According to the Chick Logic manual, girls are not motivated by guilt
and do what they want at the time without thinking about consequences.
Chicks are motivated by good/bad, guilt is a second tier emotion which
requires reflection about their conduct, and most are incapable of
attaining this level of cognition. As we know, girls do what they want at
the time.
>MB: Would she also have a problem facing the guy she made the false
accusations against?
Also, why do they do this - why not just come out and tell the truth that
they are not into it at the moment rather than making themselves look like
total confused idiots.

Ciz: Because we, as guys, and in a democracy we have no one to blame but
ourselves have legislated the ability and operate the criminal justice
system in a way that allows chicks to reserve the right to accuse a guy she
had consensual sex with much after the fact and reframe it as somehow
noncongenial if she wants to "redact" her previously slutty behaviour. She
really doesn't even need to face a true cross examination of her acts
because her past prior sexual activity is prohibited from being brought up.
Prior to the rape shield laws, defense attorneys would simply question the
"victim" on her prior sexual activities and then the jury would immediately
We weren't putting enough people in prison this way, so they created the
"rape shield" laws, which makes cross examination decidedly soft ball.
Chicks have nothing to face, it's like they're a Medieval king who can say,
"take him away!" They don't need evidence, they don't need proof, they just
need their "word" (against yours).


Sex Magic Outing Report by Alex:
I was one of the attendees of Mystery's workshop held in Belgrade,
Yugoslavia on the 3rd, 4th and 5th January 2002. I was the only Serbian in
the workshop, I thought I would have the advantage but actually it is
easier to use the stuff in English than to translate it. Lots of stuff that
is in English is kind of awkward in Serbian.
Before the workshop, as I've been on ASF for a while, I knew that Mystery
is one of the most respected PUA's on the list. Also, before the workshop,
I had an impression that Mystery, being alpha and PUA is some scary guy. In
a sense that he might have too much of an attitude or that he would be
unfriendly or such. It turns out that he and his wingman Chris Powles were
super cool and that we all made good friends during this workshop. Mystery
is actually a guy with advanced social skills and able to approach and make
friends with anyone. In each of the bars we went he made friends
(especially waiters and security people).
Being a Serbian I am little modest (compared to Americans) in praising
Mystery. I know that many people out there are asking themselves if the
workshop is worth the money. Even though I knew who Mystery was before the
workshop, I had my doubts if the workshop will be worth it. It is worth it
and you will not regret it. Some things that look on the list like they
will never work worked and things started to make some sense.
I've got lots of advice how to improve my body posture, voice, clothing,
and game. One of Mystery's theories that I find fantastic is his group
theory. Also, I learned some things I didn't know before, like photo
routines (excellent), phase shifting, hoops theory ... Mystery explained
some negs, like dirt neg and others.
I cannot say how much my game improved after the workshop, because I had
little time for outing, and I also had a bad case of flu. But, I am sure
that the workshop experience will kick in. That has been my experience with
other ASF material. It takes some time for things to fall in to the right
place. Also, I had a girlfriend before and after the workshop, so I didn't
follow through with phone calls of my # closes during the workshop.
Criticism that I could address is the following: Though Mystery's approach
is excellent, and works for him, he should be more concentrated on giving
openers that work for others. I guess I am a shy person, and I can only use
stuff that I really like. For me the workshop was too short, because I
needed some time to loosen up and only on the third day I had success in #
closing. The feeling that I had on the third day of the workshop was
something I didn't feel in a long time. Like on top of the world.
Also, the feeling of successfully closing is hard to describe.


Billy L.:
I just have a question for some of you guys who use the balls-to-the-wall,
straight up, direct style of approaching women. When you approach a woman,
whether it be with the Mark-like 'I just wanted to tell you I think you're
a very stunning woman' or the Ross-style 'I just noticed you and wanted to
come over and find out what you are like', what do you guys do when they
show little interest? Do you just try and have some conversation
nevertheless, or do you bail? I've been working on this lately, as it's not
one of my strong points. This straight up style is what usually works best
for me, because I find that women usually like the directness and honesty
of it all.
Another thing that I'm wondering is: do you think it's necessary to adjust
your style when you aren't doing an approach? For example, maybe your buddy
takes you to his girlfriend's party and introduces you to her friends. How
do you adjust your style, or, do you even feel an adjustment is necessary?
There are some subtle differences there...


Mark B.:
>Darren: I just finished the Sex Magic Workshop this past Saturday in
Toronto. We met up with Mystery at the Indian Motorcycle Club in
Toronto....It was great - she was smiling and definitely intrigued - some
nice reactions....Mystery pointed out what sets to approach, gave us some
good openers and a couple of routines, and had us dive into action.......His
flashy displays and magic tricks attracted attention, and not just from the
set he was working on........Although I didn't get any closes, I did learn
a good bit. I got experience in approaching groups. One of the first sets I
approached, I went in asking, "Do you believe spells work?".........I
approached more sets tonight - about 6 or 7 in total. We got a good 3.5
hours in the field. I fucked up the groups quite a few times - approaching
the target first by accident, approaching a set that had already been
approached by my friend, approaching a group at a pool table and not being
able to get the attention of the target, etc. - but I still learned from
all of them...............My friend and I went to a magic shop and picked
up a thumb tip, which is a great tool, a book on mentalism, and some other
stuff. We are working on expanding our repertoire of routines and
tricks.............The first set, for example, went nowhere. I approached a
group and found myself talking to only one of the obstacles. My energy is
somewhat lacking, and I only get lukewarm reactions from this set. Also,
the ESP routine that Mystery taught us does not work for me AT ALL. It
failed every single time, and I lost
credibility early. I think I am going to ditch this
routine..............All in all, despite a few mishaps and some
disappointments, this was a great workshop and definitely worth the money.
I feel that I can take the skills and knowledge I picked up from the
workshop, read up more on the Mystery Method», especially the specific
routines, and in a month or two, after tons of practice, become GREAT at
doing pick-ups in bars and clubs................

MB: Indian Motorcycle Club is certainly a good choice of venue as it is
wide open and women tend to be a little older and more receptive to PUA. I
go there sometimes and always get good results. What I got out of this
report was more of what was not said rather than what was said. Using magic
and performing to attract attention? Fine but where is the expression of
liking and desire for the woman or some form of admiration or fascination
with her? The report mentioned that many times this went nowhere and there
were disappointments or lukewarm disinterest. Interesting since the method
of expressing desire and what a woman does to me produces three results -
an immediate closeness and liking and a close or immediate closeness and
liking but "I have a husband or a boyfriend" but they still stick around
and even offer numbers regardless or an outright "fuck off, asshole" which
is usually a man hater or a very insecure woman, one which I do not want
anyway. But never or extremely rarely are the indifferent or just lukewarm.
I am amazed that with so many walk ups and tries you did not achieve a
greater level of success than you did. But at one point in my lifetime I as
well had the same shit kicked out of me before I learned to genuinely
express my attraction and desire for a woman when I saw her. How about
listening to women and actually talking to them - all you relate was "your
performance" or "magic tricks." How about some good solid relating to her
not better tricks or whatever? Perhaps the error was not the lack of better
tricks but the lack
of expression of actual liking of her verbally or non verbally? Someone
here mentioned that a conversation does not create attraction. Well, some
women suggest that a good conversation to them is like foreplay. One thing
that works extremely well is just letting them talk and babble. On Sunday I
was feeling tired and a little down so I went to the House of Lancaster
strip club near my house to get some food to eat. I sat close to the
kitchen waiting for my food which is close to the bar but away from the
main sitting area. I sat there quietly waiting for my food and did not look
around at all. Then one of the shooter girls came over and talked to me for
about 5 minutes - did not offer a shooter just talked. I said next to
nothing but just asked her a few questions and let her talk and talk she
did. I know her from before and usually she never sticks around for so long
when I overtake or try to dominate the conversation. When she got up and
left, a waitress came over and I did the same thing - just asked her a few
questions and let her babble. And since I was not sitting in the main area,
they did not offer to sell me a drink, just social interaction. Then I got
my plate of chicken, rice and salad I sat down in a corner in the main area
and just focused on my food. Then out of the blue I feel a kiss on the
cheek. It was from a stripper that I asked out months ago but she said she
was busy and couldn't, so I backed off. She sometimes just waved from afar
after I asked her out or ignored me completely most of the time but this
time she offered me a kiss. This time she says "Mark, I'll come back and
talk to you when you finish eating". Now these girls know I never get
dances so their purpose was not to try and get dances. All I did was just
sit there quietly, focus on my food, let them talk and feel unjudged - no
magic, no performances, no other funny stuff. They are the performer and I
am the appreciative audience - entertain me!!!!!!!!!!!!!


>Assman: In the final analysis, I think his greatest disadvantage is age
and looks. I'm tall and good looking, I carry myself in a confident manner,
and people believe I DESERVE to get what I want based on my looks and demeanor.

NightLight9: I think the real issue is he never gets any non-verbal rapport
or even any reaction that indicates that she might want to be kissed. I
don't care who you are looks wise, if you just shake hands with someone and
forcibly try to kiss them, with no regard for what they want or attempt to
create a situation that is conducive to her kissing you (this can mean a
lot of things), you are going to get a lot (all?) negative responses. This
is NOT what the kiss opener is like at all. Even in one with no talking,
you never would grab her in a way that she didn't have complete freedom to
stop you and you never would kiss her in a way that an interest in kissing
back wasn't a requirement. It's slow (relatively) and deliberate. That's
one of the reasons it's so powerful.
>MB: Where are you meeting these women? Women who are not interested in
themselves nor women who have no interest in those that have interest in
them? Wow, I would like to know where these women are since I could just
treat them like crap and get laid three times per day everyday.

NightLight9 says: Come to Seattle. We've got tons.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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