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This was the last time I ever agreed to a blind date
4/28/02 9:35:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time


David Update:

As mentioned here before, what we need in order to make the tapes or other
products available is a name.  This one has stymied us and nothing that we
have been able to come up with has grabbed us.  The video tapes of the
seminar are ready to go - we just need to have a name so we can put
"copyright (the name)" in the beginning along with your standard 'don't
copy this' notice.

In order to entice you to help us come up with a name and image for David,
we are holding a contest:

Come up with the winning ideas and you will win:
- 1 hour telephone or in-person consultation with David
- Attendance to a seminar (can be used at any time we hold one)
- A copy of the book when it is published
- A copy of the VCR tapes of the seminar that was held previously

While I would like to put a deadline on this, the contest will continue
until we come up with a name and image.  It should be noted that you will
be required to relinquish all rights to the name and consider the prizes as
full and final compensation for such.

Thanks to those who have made their suggestions.  We still don't quite have
what we are looking for, so please keep the ideas coming in!

Private in person or telephone consultations with David are available.

PLEASE NOTE:  This David is not to be confused with David DeAngelo of (who has posted some great stuff here under the
name "Sisonpyh"), or David Shade (of

David is particularly intuitive with regard to your specific individual
problems with certain women.  You can get on the phone, answer his
questions on the situation, and he will give you very insightful advice on
how to succeed in your particular mission.

He's had some spectacular results, and you will be reading much more about
this soon.


> GameMaster: Clifford, if I live to be 1,000 (which is my goal) I'll
never understand fucking women. She knew, and I knew there was only one
reason for my being there but she still had to play these silly games of

Ross: Dave Riker, one of my good friends and top students put it
brilliantly. He said, "I always assume there is a PART of her that WANTS to
do what I want her to do, but I DON'T assume there is a part of her that
wants to do what I TELL her to do or that will VERBALLY AGREE to what I
want her to do."
That is, women will want to do the action, but not verbally take
responsibility for their choice BEFORE HAND.
Sort of like the President ordering an illegal or extra-legal action on the
part of the CIA. He wants "plausible deniability". I think women want to be
able to say, if they have some guilt, that it wasn't their fault...they
didn't INTEND to do it, it just "happened" and they couldn't control
themselves, or the "big, strong, powerful man" just swept them away.
> GameMaster: Me: Well, do you mind talking about it? I mean, what kind of
medication are you on?
> Her: It's an anti-depressant...Zoloft.
> *Bingo, I'd had some experience with a few girlfriends and strippers
that were Zoloft junkies and I'd never seen any symptoms like Nancy was

Ross: Maybe they weren't taking it when they were banging you. Zoloft
clinically does often have the side effect of killing sex-drive, although
she still could have been bullshitting you in her individual case.
> GameMaster:  repeat, church girls are Numero Uno. I managed to limp back
home last nite and crashed at about 9:00 p.m. and feel like I've been
working out with the Walenda Brothers. I can fucking barely move. I never
thought raising a cup of  coffee to my lips would be the equivalent of an
80 year old running the 100 meter dash. Oh yeah, I'm back in business down
here. I just hope Nancy doesn't go home and get rid of that idiot she lives

Ross: Well, when the church girls are sexually frustrated with hubby and
also drink like fishies, it makes it easier I guess! Good work!
> DB: Basically, if you demonstrate certain behaviors which show that you
yourself are free, this will be communicated to the woman. It's like this
one fellow who I know who is very successful with woman.

Ross:  I think that is part of David (Cliff's Montreal buddy) and his
method; he demonstrates he is easy and free with being horny and sexual
(but not in a needy way) and so that frees them to bring out their inner-sluts!
> DB: Now I am much better looking than this guy (so much for looks) but
he evidently could get them in this state by his very act of being in front
of them. Now you can give women this same effect thru patterning, and it
would be a lot like getting vitamin C thru tablet form versus actually
eating an orange.

Ross:  I want you to get this point. I am agreeing with what you are
saying, AND (not but), please, please at least hear me out to up your own
Knowing how to observe a woman, what to comment on, and what questions to
ask her so you can demonstrate a unique insight into her makes a powerful
combination for what you just described. Someone who is free, funny, makes
no secret of their desires (without being needy) AND (not "but) who can
demonstrate some degree of understanding of HER world, and what makes her
unique (at least in her own view of herself) is going to be very appealing.

My co-point is this: please, understand that knowing what to observe,
knowing what questions to ask, how to recognize powerful responses, anchor
The model of SS that many people are still thinking about on this list
comes from 1993, when it virtually WAS almost ALL about "memorized
speeches" that you recited back.
That has changed enormously over the years; please talk to any student who
has the more current material.
My view is that MOST women are deeply-sexual; they just need a certain set
of signals inside of themselves or certain contexts to trigger it into
acting on it with you. So much of SS is about finding those things already
in her, rather than imposing them through "reciting", although there is
still some room for the "canned" stuff. Get it?
>DB: The social control mechanisms in the West though are much more
sophisticated and constant on women (as well as men) so granted a women may
be able to have certain token freedoms, ultimately they can only go so far
before their peer groups,  society, parents or whatever begin to condition
them, especially on a subconscious level.

Ross: Powerfully true...hence my 4 levels of the mind theory and theme,
which women of almost all ages instantly recognize and agree with as being
100% true.
> DB: I mean, if these things didn't exist, this newsletter, Speed
Seduction, Mystery Method» or whatever wouldn't need to even exist. But as
the final episode of "the Prisoner" (that British TV show from the 60's)
demonstrates, after Number 2 escapes the island that was trying to
condition him into destroying his free will, and makes it back to
civilization, most of us will usually give in to these societal control

Ross:  That would be Number 6. Who really, all along, was Number 1....
> Mark B.:  On another thought, I really am once again beginning to
believe in the usefulness of SS in the seduction process.  I find it most
useful when used to simply escalate what the woman tells me about herself
by telling her what I want her to feel in the context of what she is saying
to you about her life and herself.

Ross:  Right. That is why so much of SS, these days, is about asking
questions that trigger processes and also allow you to gather information,
that you can turn around and utilize, amp up, have her experience in ways
she never has before. Get it?
> Mark B.:  Saying things like "warmth > in your body" or "feel good all
over" or "feel that connection and passion" really DOES produce these
feelings inside a woman. How I know is that they later or even during the
conversation they tell me that they are feeling what I suggested to them.
Ross: Well, what have I been saying all along? It works best when you
repeat back THEIR OWN WORDS. That way, there is NO chance of them
disagreeing or not getting it. So, you need to learn how to get them
talking, ask the right questions, etc.
> Gregory Rasputin: Well, I'm quite impressed with this part of your ad.
First you built the emotion in her, and then challenged her ability to
experience this emotion - not bad. Just remember not to dwell on the
Internet for too long, and if you ever wanna improve your patterns, use
more words to describe sensations/images/sounds, etc...When I do eyes
patterns, I try to bring the situation to life. For example: have you ever
just glanced at a guy, and as you felt the eye contact between the two of
you, you felt a warmth in the pit of your stomach, like something was
awakened? Can you remember that? As if, suddenly, the color of his eyes
became more vivid, and you found it sooOoOo easy to concentrate on him, and
try to guess...what is it exactly, that's so curious about those eyes?

Ross:  Good languaging, especially since you are describing her signal
processing that lets her know she is attracted, usually starting in the pit
of her tummy and then the rest of it. I wouldn't get too descriptive in an
email...scares them off...believe me I know, but I like this...
> Nick:  The best way to describe it is that I have been using the
language pattern variety of speech without realizing that I have been doing
it as if it were just happening by instinct.

Ross:  Good, because then you rely LESS on reciting, and more on observing
what she offers as the little memorized bits that FIT WHO SHE UNIQUELY IS
come out of your mouth! So, you are probably doing a LOT more observing of
her, finding out about what really gets her going and THEN the words come
> Nick: As an example of this instinctive use of the NLP/SS language, I
will relate an experience (note: this is one in many that have been
happening to me in the course of the last 2 years). I am practitioner of
old forms of occult magic & I make a living on the side conducting
spiritual readings for people.

Ross: Magick and NLP are very close cousins.....
> Nick: These readings I do by using a form Cardtomancy different from the
TAROT. Of course, as I said these things to the HB, I remember that I was
doing so using her own words as well as the words that she placed emphasis
on. I believe these are the personal trance words.

Ross:  Key to making it work. And of course the "reading" gives you a great
opportunity to really gather as much information about her as you are
revealing TO her!
> Chrisonic:  Do you have any experience in approaching women who are
walking on the street? I always read about guys approaching women on the
street when they are not moving (i.e. looking at the window of a store or
waiting for the bus), but I noticed that in the city (Rio de Janeiro) I
live/work, most of the times the HB's are moving and I don't wanna miss
those opportunities. So, could you tell me any ideas based on your
experience? Changing the topic a little, why don't you use the cell phone
agenda to save the phone numbers you get from the girls you close? Is it
kind of lame to do this in USA? Because I always read about guys there
using pen and paper to write down the digits.

Ross: I just posted this to the SS list...since it is MY post, I can
re-post it here:

I've been improving the "walk-ups" part of SS...

First, I want you all to understand that the meaning and beliefs and labels
you attach to a task will determine the skills and techniques you will be
able to properly use, and thus the results you get. the highest level of change, let us look at "walk-ups".
First of all, look at what that label implies. If you have to "walk-up" to
someone, it implies first of all that they are ABOVE you...bad thing.
Second, that you are approaching someone who is static, rather than moving
along with them.
Third that it is a "task".
I prefer to think of it as "energy, awareness, intent extended". That is, I
am going to extend my energy, my awareness and my intent outward, see who I
can play with, who I can touch, and what THEY are made of.
This enables an entirely different range of actions, thoughts, behaviors, etc..
I have come up with the following 5 categories for EAIE (energy awareness
intent extended):

SOI Observation/Question/ Put-on Spontaneous Implied (Statement of
Intuition Utterance Compliment Interest)
Now, bear in mind, often-times, these will overlap. But nowadays, when I
see a woman who might be worthwhile to meet, I imagine these categories in
my mind, lined up in columns, and get a feel for which to reach for. Or, I
might get in a certain mood and ONLY do a certain method, just for kicks.
Bear in mind that all of these of course work only when you are in control
of your state, and also when you demonstrate you understand the ongoing
situation, etc., etc., etc.

Statements of Interest are really the most "direct approach". They take the
form of:
I couldn't help noticing how X I think you are...and I really wanted to Y.
(Y can be "meet you" "say hello". You can add in "and on the wild chance we
could really like each other...I had to come and meet you."
So the key phrase is: I couldn't help noticing....Another key phrase, as an
alternate is "I admire how x"  As in, "I admire how powerful and strong you
are...I think it looks great...and I really wanted to meet you. " You could
use this on a very athletic chick who is in a super-market, gym, etc.

What counts here is that you are owning the communication. You are saying
that YOU think she is so and are not saying she IS so and so. A
subtle difference, but important. It just has more impact to say, "I think
you look great" as opposed to "YOU look great".
I like to combine my SOI's with a tiny little bit of a put-on. So, I will
often, with the first eye contact I give a woman, put on a look of
surprised we know each other already...and then say in
that same tone, " are you?"
When she gives me that, "Do I know you look or even asks me" I'll say, "No,
you don't me...but I couldn't help noticing how...(pause) astonishing I
think you are...and I was hoping there was a cool person inside for me to
meet...I'm Ross".
Note that you are owning the communication, issuing a bit of a challenge,
and creating an opportunity for her to respond.
I find it really improves response if you do that little bit of "pretending
to know her" because it sets a more responsive mind set in her..she is
already, non-verbally, trying to sort you into the category of someone
familiar and OUT of the category of "stranger". Not a bad place to start
from before you really move in.
Note that you don't have to use "astonishing" but can fill in the blanks as
you see fit.
You could also use variations such as, "I couldn't help noticing how
amazing I think your energy is..." or "I couldn't help admiring how
beautifully I think you carry move with discipline and
So, the form is:
slight pretending to know her
acknowledging you don't
revealing your opinion and intent, where you make sure you OWN the opinion
When we get to the put-ons, there is a very strong variation, but this is
good for our purposes here. Also, notice, it gives you a chance to really
put your foot in the water first, before plunging in. If she acts with fear
at your look of recognition, she probably isn't a good prospect to offer
your further opinions to.


I tend to use these when I have a chance to observe the person for a bit of, if she is in line with me, or is at a party. I do my best to
really tune in, extend my energy, and see what I can come up with.
Sometimes this comes AFTER I break the ice with something funny, sometimes
Observations tend to be more matter of fact, dancing on the edge of a
compliment, and can be combined/followed with compliments/questions.
Such as: You have athlete written all over you...what's your sport?
Observations can also be funny. For example, if you notice a woman is
wearing all purple...purple shoes, hat, shorts, etc. you can say, "Excuse
me psychic intuition tells love the color purple."

If you start with a question, the form is, "Excuse me..can I ask
you X? Where "x" can be "do a spiritual meditation or yoga"?
Another variation would be, "Excuse me, but I have to ask you do a
martial art...can you fight?" Whatever her answer, follow up with the
compliment, Because I think you carry yourself with discipline and
elegance...I think it's a rare and attractive combination.."
Observations/compliments/questions/intuitions are what I tend to use on
much younger women. They are less powerful, in that you aren't stating the
part about wanting to meet them being the reason you are talking to them.
At 43, I won't walk up to a 21 year old with an SOI...too scary for them.
For younger gals, I actually prefer put-ons, followed by genuine intuition
if I can find one or a good observation. (Recall the story of Tiffany and
Emily, the 18 year olds I sarged. I opened up by faking like I was
flamingly gay and telling Tiff, "Looking at how pretty your blues are is
giving me the naughty tingles". Then I followed through with my
observations/intuitions about her.
I really love put-ons. In this category, I put faking like I am flamingly
gay, pretending to be very late meeting them because I was stuck in traffic
(when I don't even know them), rapping spontaneously to them in my Pimp
Daddy Master RJ style, making them laugh like hell by pretending to be
pissed at them because they haven't written or called after the little
thing we had in "Pago Pago" and they discarded me like a cheap slut...
I'll go through some of these word for word, but note that put-ons
generally require a higher, faster energy level. It's more manic, relying
on momentum, like a machine-gun-stand-up-comic. You are stepping up their
energy by going REALLY fast, boosting their mood and enthusiasm and then
you can follow up with an SOI of some kind, implied compliment (my favorite).
Let me jump to the implied compliment, which is really a follow-up to a
put-on. Nowadays, when I fake I am flaming, and I get them laughing, I will
then say in normal voice, "Actually, I'm really not gay, but I have theory
that very pretty women actually have great senses of humor, and I wanted to
see if I was right...I'm Ross". Another variation is, after admitting you
aren't a fudge puncher, to say, "but a sense of humor is required in anyone
I'm going to hang out with, and I'm glad you passed the test...I'm YOUR
NAME HERE". (These both work with groups of women, by the way, as well as
women who are alone).


Gregory Rasputin:
1)GameMaster, I'm very proud of you for not hyperventilating around this
girl anymore. I honestly still sometimes get too excited around girls, but
you know what helps me get into a calm relaxed state? Recalling a joke in
Simpsons haha, anytime I feel I should have a smile on my face, all I need
to do is remember a joke in Simpsons and feel good, haha.
2) I notice alot of you talk about how you used to not feel
comfortable/still don't feel comfortable about patterning. Is your goal to
gain confidence with SS? Or is to gain confidence in everything? I have the
confidence to approach a girl in the most random places, to wear a bowler
hat on the street, to dress anyway I want. When I talk to people, I
probably start conversations with as many guys as I do for girls (if I'm
interested in something, of course). I don't know why (anymore, I used to
know why I was confident), but I know that I don't care what any one around
me will think, and I have the freedom to take charge of my life, and direct
it anyway I want, do you? If you don't, you'll never have the confidence
with SS.


Mark B.:
Here is a post on confidence and mental sharpness.
I feel that when you are confident you are confident in every part of your
life, not just with women. But dealing with women sometimes poses as
special challenge and here many of us experience some challenge at certain
points in our lives. From experience I can say with full confidence that
feeling relaxed is more (but not all) a function of your physical rather
than mental state as sometimes no amount of positive self talk can make you
feel confident.
The key to feeling confident (notice I did not say thinking confident) is a
good night's sleep. Before you laugh, listen up. Ever find yourself in a
position where you see a gorgeous beauty, your brain freezes and you have
no idea what to say while your nerves wreck havoc on your ability to even
We have all been there, including me. At times I would find myself cursing
my inability to even look at her. I would come home and stand in the shower
with my head down with water beating against the back of my head thinking
about the opportunity that I passed on. I would get out and look at myself
in the mirror and think "Mark, you fucking fool, get your shit together,
live your life to the fullest, man, before you get old and grey". Many days
I would walk on the lakefront of Toronto and wonder what happened to my
once great ability to act with calm resolve, mental sharpness and
Then one day I got the feeling back briefly. I came home rather late (10:00
p.m.) from the gym on a Friday evening and went to make my usual last meal
of the day which consists of the usual tuna, egg whites and a large bowl of
oatmeal. But not having any oatmeal left and being that I was too tired to
drive to the 24 hour grocery store to get any, I settled for just the tuna
and egg whites.
At around 11:30 that night I went to sleep. The next morning I woke up at
7:00 full of energy and ready to go and start my day. Usually I like to
just lay in bed after waking on the weekend for at least 30 minutes but I
could not. I got up with a fury, ate breakfast, went shopping and had a
great day running around the city. That night my friends and I went out and
I had one of the best night out ever. I picked up two numbers, had one
invitation to go home with a HB8 and kissed closed another HB near the end
of the night. I went home and lay in bed looking at the ceiling trying to
figure out what happened to cause me to feel that sharp and what I did to
succeed that night. I felt energetic, driven, aggressive, calm and
centered, sharp and knew what to say at every point in my interaction with
each woman.
The next day I went back to eating my regular meal of oatmeal at night with
my tuna and egg whites and noticed that my mental and emotional sharpness
once again faded. I once again began waking up feeling tired, mentally
slower and emotionally irritated. I got frustrated at not being able to get
back my previous state and sat down and wrote out everything I did the few
days before my successful night out. I am 28 (Aug 73) now but since the age
of 14 I have been involved in serious weight training and part of that
includes eating around the clock. Some serious bodybuilders sometimes eat
in the middle of the night all in an effort to put on muscle size. Not
going to that extreme I settled for eating tuna and egg whites around 10:00
p.m. before going to bed. Then back in 1995 I added some bread to my last
meal and noticed my mental and emotional focus begin to wane but I did not
really notice a big difference until 1998 when I added oatmeal to my last
meal at 10:00 p.m. I began to feel tired and really drawn most days and
mentally my focus was way off. This went on for a few years but I
nonetheless persisted through my state to date and get my share of success
with women despite my mental and emotional inner turmoil and anxiety. I
thought that this was something that one day would just blow over.
After I analyzed my night of success, I realized that my mental and
emotional lethargy was caused by going to bed on a full stomach but more
importantly the fact that I was eating a heavy carbohydrate meal before
going to bed. I was doing all this in an effort to keep my body well fed
overnight in order to build muscle but I did not realize the actual damage
I was doing to myself. One of the primary reasons why we sleep is to give
our brains a rest and to allow our conscious minds to rest while our
subconscious digests and reconciles the events of the previous day and our
lives in general. At the same time, your body's digestive system slows down
and any food in your stomach gets digested slowly while your brain focuses
on digestion rather than rest. For this reason when we eat right before
going to bed, our bodies and brains do not get the necessary rest and
recovery that we need and hence we feel mentally off if we have not had a
full restful night. As a result, we wake up feeling sluggish and tired the
next day. This results in a feeling of mental lethargy and emotional
turmoil as a result of not being sharp mentally and feeling frustrated
despite valiant mental efforts there is nothing we can do to feel better.
Also when we eat a carbohydrate meal before bedtime we also suppress the
release of the human growth hormone which helps us heal and actually burn
excess body fat. Therefore, not only will not eating carbs before bedtime
help you feel better but also look better as well.
I suggest if you are going to eat past 7:00 at night, eat only protein such
as fish (tuna my favourite), eggs whites, red meat (but better to eat
during the day as it takes awhile to digest), chicken, and other protein
sources and AVOID like the plague bread, pasta, rice, oatmeal, potatoes,
vegetables, fruits and other carbs after 7:00. This means no late night ice
cream, pizza, burgers, fries, subs, or any other heavy carb meals. But do
not take my word for this, try it yourself for a week and then get back to
me with your results.
I also realized that many of those that are depressed, eat late at night in
order to deal with their depression and anxiety only to deepen if further
by not getting a good night's rest. The next day they feel worse and only
end up eating again perpetuating the vicious cycle further and further. If
you are one of those late night pizza or other crap eaters, stop and watch
your mental and emotional focus increase exponentially. Not only will you
feel better but, as I noticed, you'll tend to be more positive and more
optimistic about life in general and hence you'll attract more people to
you, not just romantically oriented women but people in general such as
male friends and even female friends. You'll look better as well.
Now I make sure that I follow my dietary regimen to the tee. I only eat
tuna and egg whites before bed and wake up early feeling sharp and focused
most days. When I am on I can get anywhere from one up to four or even five
numbers per day if I try hard enough but the key is being able to bounce
back quickly from a failure or a nerve racking situation and also being
able to stay calm while engaged in one. After all, success is more about
whether you are able to pick yourself up after you have fallen rather than
just about being good up to your point of failure. But this is not a be all
and end all cure. Our bodies are wired to respond to stress and this will
not take away all your fears but it prevents the constant and ongoing
feeling of lethargy and emotional turmoil that sometimes we may feel which
paralyzes us and keep us from living our lives to its fullest potential.
If any of the above sounds like you try out my suggestion and see for yourself.


Jeff Y:
I think I've set a new record. 6 girls in a row have flaked out on meeting
me. Can anyone top that? Is there anyone who used to get this a lot a found
a way to overcome it?
Here's a breakdown of the girls:
Mindy 18, 9 - She actually did meet me for coffee and before we left she
asked me to go out with her on Saturday, but when I call her she doesn't
answer. I leave a message telling her to call me when she gets this, and I
never hear from her. (Funny thing is, during our first meeting she said she
always does what she says she'll do.)
Norma 24, 9 - Stopped her as she got off the elevator at school. She was
wearing a Winnie the Pooh watch so I started asking her about which
characters she liked the most. She was acted very shy but chatted with me
for a minute then I told her I'd like to meet her for coffee sometime and
she says ok and asks if I want her number.
I finally get a hold of her a week later and she's acting REALLY shy and
stand offish which I ask her about. I say how she tends to hold people off
at a distance at first and has hard time feeling comfortable right away
with someone. She agrees then I ask her to meet me the next day. We agree
on a time and she gives me her address to pick her up but tells me to call
her before coming over (I hate it when they do that), but I say ok. I call
her the next day and no answer.
Angelica 19, 7.5 - I've noticed this girl checking me out several times at
school and we had smiled at each other a couple of times. One day a few
weeks ago, I'm in the computer lab and her and this other guy sit across
from me. He's hitting on her big time. I'm feeling under the weather this
day and when I cough she says "God bless you" to me. I tell her I didn't
sneeze but thank her anyway. A little while later, the guy leaves and I
cough again and she asks me if I sneezed and I say no. Then a little later
I borrow a pen from her then return it with a note that basically says I've
been wanting to meet her and I'd like to meet for coffee. She laughs and
says sure and we set up a time (almost two weeks later because of our
conflicting schedules). She asks me if I want her number and then writes it
down for me. I try calling her the following Sunday and she is not home. I
call Wednesday (2 days before date) and her sister answers and tells me I'm
calling too late and won't let me talk to her. So I don't call again.
Brenda19, 7.5 - See her sitting alone in the library at school and I
introduce myself and sit down at her table. I had been practicing SS at
home and managed to work some in during the intro with this one. She seems
to be eating it up, then I use Sis's 'do you have email' line. She doesn't
but cracks up when I ask if she has electricity and gives me her number
without hesitation. Then she also gives me her work number and tells me I
can reach her better there. Then she asks me for my number so I figure this
one's a lock. I call her 3 days later on Tuesday.
Fluff talk
Me: So what would you say if I were to ask you to meet me for coffee?
Her: When?
Me: Later today.
Her: I'm supposed to go shopping with my mom when I get off work so I don't
think I can today. Is that ok?
Me: Yeah that's ok. So you can't think of day that would be better?
Her: Uhm how about Friday? No, not Friday, I mean, unless you want to.
Me: Friday's fine with me, I'm off of school that day, is that your day off?
Her: No, I was thinking after I get off at 6.
Me: Ok, that's fine do you want to meet at Starbucks or someplace in Montrose?
Her: Uh, call me Friday and we'll figure it out.
Me: Ok, I'll talk to you then.
I call her around 2:30 and they tell me she's out to lunch but take my
number and say she'll call me in about half an hour. No call. Even if she
didn't get the message she already had my number.
Nora 25, (would be a 10 if not for her hairy arms) - Meet her at the gym.
She is drop dead gorgeous. English is definitely her second language,
though. I run my gym pattern on her which doesn't go that well because I
haven't done it in a while but I go for it and suggest we meet for a drink,
and she says she doesn't have much time lately. More fluff talk then I ask
if she ever goes to Starbucks. She gets excited and says she drinks coffee
5x day. She asks if I have my cell phone and I say it is in my locker. Then
she asks for my number. I thought she was going to say she'd call me but
instead she calls my cell right there so I'll have her number. I call her a
few times and she always seems to be busy. Then on the same day I called
Brenda, I call her and ask her to meet me.
Her: When?
Me: This afternoon.
Her: I have to go to the gym before I go to work. Why don't you come see me
at work?
Turns out she's a stripper but I don't want to turn into a customer so I
just ask when her next day off is and we agree to meet the following
Sunday. She suggests we also go to the movies. I decide to do something
different with this one and confirm the meeting the day before. Then the
next day I call her and she says she's eating with her family but will meet
me at four. I ask her to call me if she's running late and she says she
will. I go to meet her and she never shows. I call her and leave this message:
"Hola Nora, it's 4:50 and we were supposed to meet at 4 o'clock. Obviously
something in your environment prevented you from meeting me, and I was just
curious as to what that was. You didn't strike me as the type of person who
would deliberately interrupt her own opportunities, especially when the
first taste was so good. I'm also wondering why you didn't call me to let
me know you were going to be late like you said you would. So call me and
let me know what the scoop is."
She never calls. I see her in the gym a couple days ago and she says she
was busy with her mom and is sorry. She also tries telling me that she
didn't get my message. I basically tell her that she's full of shit and
that I don't think she is sorry. Then leave.
Rocsio 19, 8.5 - See her sitting at a chair with no table and I sit in the
one next to her.
Me: Hi!
Her: Hi.
Me: Can I ask you a question?
Her: Sure
Stare for a bit then say, what's your name?
Smiles and says Rocsio
Me: Rocsio? What kind of name is that?
Her: (Laughs) I don't know. Hispanic I guess, my family is from Mexico and
I'm Hispanic.
Me: Well, so am I.
Her:You are?
Me: Yeah. Well, half Hispanic.
Her:What else are you?
Me: I'm half Mexican and quarter Finnish and a quarter Swedish. (She seems
to be impressed)
She's wearing lime green sandals and I ask if that's her favorite color.
Her: No, I just wanted something different.
Me: So then what is your favorite color?
Her: Red.
Me: You want to see something cool?
Then I show her the four magic questions which she really digs and ask what
my responses were.
Then she comments on how she doesn't like change when we're looking at her
answers about death, and I say, "yeah a lot of people are like that. I was
reading this book by Bill Phillips that said most people have a tendency to
keep looking at the past and not letting go of it. But when a person can
let go of their past (point away) and look to your future (SP) and you can
see your future right in front of you (SP) and you know that this is what
you really want, then you can have a much more fulfilling life because
you're better able to see an opportunity right in front of you (SP) when it
comes along and you can grab onto this opportunity and go for it."
We fluff talk some more, then I ask her if she has email, she does and
writes it down, then I say "you know I was thinking if you write down your
number I could call you sometime."  Without any hesitation she writes it
down almost as if I was doing her a favor by telling her to give it to me.
Then, like Brenda, she asks for my number and email so I think this is a
lock, even after getting flaked by Brenda.
I call her a few days later at 9:30 p.m. and she's very standoffish and I'm
feeling very awkward because I never expected it to be so difficult. Then
she asks me to call her the next day because her whole family is asleep.
I call her two days later in the morning around 10 a.m.
Me: Your family's not asleep are they?
Her: (Laughs) No!
I couldn't talk the other day because I was in my mom's room and they were
trying to sleep.
Me: Your family goes to bed pretty early, huh?
Her:Yeah, because they have to get up early.
Me: I see. Well, I was wondering why you were so standoffish?
Her:You mean mean?
Me: No, not mean you just sounded annoyed that I was calling you.
Her: Well, I wasn't.
Fluff talk and I use the line I used on Mindy to get her to meet me for
coffee and say "can I be totally honest with you. I hate trying to get to
know people over the phone so I was thinking we could me at Starbucks and
get to know each other better."
No response
"that is if you're comfortable."
She tells me she doesn't know where Starbucks is and that she never goes
out. But we agree to meet the next day at a mall behind my apartment which
she is familiar with. Then she says she'll call me because she's starting a
new job and is not sure when she'll get off work. I swallow this hook line
and sinker.
Guess what? She never calls.
I email her this.
Let me guess. Your parakeet got sick all of a sudden so you couldn't meet
me and your dog ate my phone number so you couldn't call me to give me the
simple courtesy of letting me know you weren't going to make it. I must say
I'm surprised. You didn't strike me as the type of person who would
deliberately interrupt her own opportunities so I'm wondering what it was
that kept you from missing out. If there's one thing that I've learned from
living in Houston for 4 years is that beauty is common but people with a
great attitude and great outlook on life are rare and they're worth working
to get to know. I felt like we connected pretty good when we met and the
truth is I was hoping we could have some kind of romantic adventure
together or at the very least become good friends. I know you're not too
comfortable with change but I'm pretty sure the change I could have made in
your life would not have been that bad. It's a shame you couldn't open
yourself up to that possibility and that we'll never have the opportunity
to see how much this could have enriched our lives. Well good luck, Rocsio.
And she sends me this
>Subject: Re: we were supposed to meet yesterday
>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:29:16 EDT
>I'm very sorry about yesterday no excuse is good enough. I won't waste your
>time trying to explain why I could not make it or give you a call. I just
>want to apologize
>I'm sorry for everything
In addition to these girls there about another ten girls I've gotten phone
numbers from but couldn't get to agree on a date or anything. I know I'm
not the greatest on the phone but I don't understand why getting a girl to
meet you should be so difficult. Especially after what I perceived to be as
very positive responses during the first meeting. Any ideas guys?

Clifford's Comment:  Here's something I have learned from David which I
find works very well.  Don't follow conventional wisdom and wait a few days
to get in touch with them.  Call them right away or the next day and show
enthusiasm for having met them.  When you first meet a girl, you need to
put in more time until you get her in to your life.  Make it clear you are
dating other women, but (and this is a little tricky), you have to do it in
a way that doesn't turn her off or make her not feel special.  If you tell
them from the beginning that you are seeing other women (inserted at the
right moment) they all seem to be ok with that and, in fact, I think it
makes you more desirable and a challenge to them.  And you can't bring it
up in ways that make her uncomfortable (eg. a girl I was with told me that
my hands were warm.  I told, "You know, it's funny but all the girls tell
me that!" to which she laughs but she's not sure if you are serious or
not).  She should never see or hear the other girls - if you keep your cell
on you and it rings, you answer when another girl calls (while you are with
one) that you are busy right now, "I'll call you back."  Get them off the
phone immediately - never let the other girl see or hear the other women
(unless, of course, you are trying to combine them for double your pleasure).


I wrote this for Nancy. I don't know what I'm gonna do with her, Cliff. But
I'll stack her up against all comers, especially in the 40 and up category.
Kept telling me how old I was. Girl just busts my balls like there's' no
tomorrow. We did have this funny exchange as well, she's a mismatcher and
gets a little defensive when you read through the mask:
Her: You don't know me, you don't know anything about me.
Me: I know a lot more than you give me credit for.
Her: How could you possibly know anything about me, it's been ten years!
Me: I know that you have a habit of saying one thing and then doing another.
Her: Oh yeah right, you are so full of yourself.
Me: Well let me ask you this. What do you know about me?
Her: That's the difference. I NEVER WANTED TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOU!!!!!
I thought I was gonna die laughing. She cracks me up. How could you help
but love a girl that says shit like that? Classic case of words going in
one direction and actions going in another. Just trips me out. I finally
got her to give me a real birthtime so I could finish her chart. It tops
out the scale of the highest score I've ever seen for compatibility,
passion, togetherness, romance, etc. BTW, be happy to provide this service
for your readers at a reasonable charge. It's a new package, fairly
expensive software but it's bulletproof. Explains the unexplainable I
guess. She's a cross between me and my mom. That is a fucking scary combo,
my Bro. Remember the thread about Anne, the psychologist? Anne is a friend
of mine that wrote a fascinating book, don't remember the title but she
theorized that the person that you are likely to be most attracted to is
the one that has the most shared negative traits of your parents. You have
to noodle that one a bit cause it's a little heavy but I think she's
partially right. I think anything that triggers some sort of adolescent
need can suck you in like that, and you never really understand why.
For the life of me I couldn't think of anything funny to inject in this
story. Nancy read it and all I got was "ho hum." Little Bitch. I did
however get a pretty good reaction from Susan, Heather, and a few other
select crew that I sent it to!
BTW, Susan wanted to go downtown last nite dancing. I knew that was gonna
be a bad idea. I haven't been "out" in over a year since hanging up my
Vampire wings but we hit all the spots I'd rather stay away from. Sure
enough, one by one, we ran into all the usual suspects. Looks like fame may
not be so fleeting after all, especially when you live in such a small
town. Cliff, I was running into girls I hadn't seen in 4-5 years. Her
reaction....walk away. She was so rude I couldn't believe it. I suppose
that means something but she's the one that's used to getting all the
attention. She looked fucking dynamite in this little low cut black all
weather stretch fuck suit but she was such a bitch I just dropped her off
at home and took off.
Gonna let that one cool for a little while. It's her fault for helping me
rediscover the fact that I've still got it. Or a modicum if "it."
: ) Attitude really is everything. She still can't figure out how the hell
I walked us past all the lines and right in the door of all those clubs.
Ironically, I wouldn't have been able to pull that off with a woman that
didn't look like that. Too funny.

Hey Cliff, you know I will never cease to be amazed at how the programming
works with these chicks. Nancy, next to Pam, had the most impenetrable
defense mechanism I've ever seen (both Cancers - they never show their
hand) and Nancy has never used the "L" word ever. Check out the words she
uses in her email.
That ain't my Nancy dude. This is a new and improved version of perfection.
OK, so I called her at home and she launches into this diatribe about how
she shouldn't have invited me to spend the weekend away with her and how
bad that was and how she's filled with guilt and all for "whatshisname" and
tells me that she can't see me or talk to me anymore. I've been here before
with these goddamn mismatchers so with all the indifference I could muster
I just said "OK, that's cool. I don't give a fuck, call me in another ten
years." Click. haw haw
She called back within two nanoseconds on her home phone in tears. Ahhhhh,
sweet surrender. "What do you want from me?" she screeched. 'You already
gave it to me, honey, and I'm not giving it back.' "I HATE YOU" Click.
Boyfriend is gonna shit if he does the reverse lookup on my number. He
still questions her once a month about me even after all this time. Guess
we know why, huh?
Cliff, I've never laughed so hard in my life. Are you sitting down? I've
already made a decision...Nancy comes free and I'm moving to away. She is
the "HER" that's been missing from the equation all this time. Stay tuned,
this is gonna get messy.
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:59 PM (From Nancy)
Subject: Re: Hi there
O.K. this is killing me. If you get this in the next few minutes, call me
at home! I need to hear your voice like NOW!!!!!!

On Sun, 21 April 2002, GameMaster wrote:
Nancy wrote: ....."and so on." Save the endearments, honey. You kill me!

From: Nancy
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Hi there
What do you mean "what am I doing home"? I do live here... Actually, I had
a function last night at the church so I attended the Saturday night
service. I worked this morning from the house. That's what I've been doing.
My parents came and picked up Ashley around noon and we'll go over in
another hour or so to have a cook out and cake, ice cream, presents, etc.
Whatshisname is playing golf. Did I mention that I hate you.
It was hard for me to come home on Friday. I thought I was going to throw
up when I stepped off the airplane (nice mental image, I'm sure). I went
into the restroom and just stood there for a while, I wanted to be back in
the hotel with you so bad. I wish I'd stayed, it's like a movie that's
playing in my head. Yesterday, when the kids were driving me absolutely
crazy, I kept picturing myself in a quiet hotel room, sitting on the
balcony, reading a book and so on. Well, I need to stop writing now. This
is much longer than any e-mail I've sent you and I wouldn't want you to get
too used to the lengthy letters. BTW, I haven't read your story you sent
yesterday; however, my gut feeling is that you're true talent lies in
writing from your heart.


This was the last time I ever agreed to a blind date. I thought you'd get a
kick out of it. Cheers!

It was 1988 and I was the beneficiary of a "favor" by a friend's wife who
had been singing a certain person's praises for months and I finally gave
in with the reluctant understanding that it would probably be a disaster
but I went anyway. "Oh she's the most beautiful, sweetest, blah blah blah."
I took the bait. Met her at an old haunt for drinks, took one look and
vowed that I would never believe another chick who was telling me how
beautiful her friends are no matter how hot SHE was. Standing policy that
will never fail a man. A size 10 squoze down into a too cheap size 6
stretch job that was threatening to start launching buttons in every
direction on the coaxing of the next deep breath, or fistful of
pretzels.Two beers later and I'm making my excuses but "The Beast" insisted
that I buy dinner as planned and with a wink informed me that she had her
eye on the lobster special that night. The image of this girl tearing a
lobster from limb to limb was more than I could stand so I offered an
alternative and told her to follow me as I paid the check and headed out
the door. I thought 'follow me' was clear enough but I suppose I should
have locked the other door cause she jumped in the passenger seat faster
than I could say Godzilla so we left together. On the way up the Parkway it
was a tossup between Chuck's Diner and Floyd's Bar-B-Que but I opted for
Chuck's cause Floyd didn't have any beer besides "The Bull." Chuck's BTW
was your basic pool hall and gambling joint that served the best
cheeseburgers on the planet. I always got two as I did this evening. The
Beast ordered a Chef Salad with lemon juice on the side. Are you getting
the picture? Her Democrat, me founder of the Libertarian Hezbollah party.
Her 33 and never married, me 35 with an ex and kids. (BTW, stay away from
anybody over the age of 30 that's never been married - trust me on this one
guys.) Her-ashamed of the South, me - ashamed that we haven't passed a law
allowing us to kill residents of the South that are ashamed of it. Anyway,
we pretty much hit all the hot spots in the world of politics, musical
tastes, relationships, kids, sororities, doctors, teachers, abortions, etc.
and I was having fun with her as I repeatedly offered her a bite of my
cheeseburger with extra onions while on my soapbox telling her that
everything she believed in reminded me of a really bad fairy tale. I guess
she'd had enough when I finished my cheeseburgers and ordered a piece of
chess pie cause she got up with a HARRUMPH and a snort and headed for the
door. I never even turned around and figured this one was in the books and
ordered another beer with a big smile on my face.
Twenty minutes later, I walked out into the sunlight and spotted a familiar
form across the street trying to hitch a ride on the parkway. Anybody
that's ever been to this town knows that that's where you go to hitch a
ride if you've been lobotomized or have a death wish. I drove down to the
bottom of the parking lot and honked the horn praying a truck driver would
make contact before she saw me but I figured it was the Christian thing to
do so I waited as she turned and lumbered back across the street to leave
permanent stretch mark imprints on my passenger seat. Back on the road, I
resumed my lecture on how liberals had ruined this country and I guess I
must have gone too far when she opened the door in an apparent attempt to
plunge to her death at 65 MPH for no other reason than to get away from me!
I reluctantly grabbed her and held on to her chubby arm all the way back to
her car never having given much thought to how difficult it is shifting
gears left handed.
Once safely back in the parking lot, I turned to her and calmly asked if
she'd like to go deer hunting with me that weekend. She turned me down but
I had a good time teasing my friend's wife about that and from that day
after she was affectionately known as Lizzie Borden (ax murderess) to all
the townspeople including the bank where she worked.


> Daniel: Anyone know any good patterns about commitment?

Stephane: Yes, don't mention commitment before she does, or don't mention
it ever. That's HER job. YOUR job is to stay in control and keep her
guessing. If she feels she can 'have' you before you've even fucked her
then she won't want you. And if you think she might be giving you the
runaround then she IS giving you the runaround. Pay attention to that
intuition because it never fails you.  NEVER mention that you want a
relationship/commitment/love, etc. before they do. Ever. Let THEM worry
about YOU. This is so important and alot of guys fuck it up by bringing up
those subjects first. But they don't want the good polite nice mommy's boy
who has no hangups and no fear of commitment. They want the bad boy. They
want pricks like me who know The Golden Rule: "Treat a lady like a whore
and a whore like a lady". Cheers.
> Chrisonic: Do you have any experience in approaching women who are
walking on the street? I always read about guys approaching women on the
street when they are not moving (i.e. looking at the window of a store or
waiting for the bus), but I noticed that in the city (Rio de Janeiro) I
live/work, most of the times the HB's are moving and I don't wanna miss
those opportunities. So, could you tell me any ideas based on your experience?

Stephane: How fast are these babes moving? Just because she seems to be in
a hurry doesn't always mean that she is. You can actually stop them and
talk to them. It's ok.


I have a question about First question: what do you
think about their material? Secondly they mentioned having a secrets to
Charisma section which contains the secrets Actors have paid Thousands for.
Have you seen it? Let me know what you think.  Also, let me know about any
other sources of "Charisma enhancement" you are familiar with.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***[email protected]***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

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This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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