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The bigger risk you take, the more attractive you look
5/29/02 10:58:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time


Double Your Dating» Seminar a Smash Success

On a last minute whim, I jumped on a plane to Los Angeles last Wednesday
and spent the weekend with David DeAngelo (aka Sisonpyh on this list) and
his all star guests.  I got off the plane and went to visit Ross at his
lavish Marina Del Rey apartment/cat sanctuary.  Ross is always fun to hang
out with and we visited Starbucks and The Tea Leaf and Coffee Bean which
are among his frequently visited sarging spots.  The highlight of the
afternoon, though, had to be back at his apartment watching him Instant
Message with this "older woman" (who he called Granny because at 42 she is
a grandmother) where he was absolutely hysterically funny in the way he was
busting her balls - it seemed to me that he was going a bit too far, but
this woman could really take it and had a highly developed sense of
humour.  She ended up giving him her phone number as well as emailing her
photo.  Ross, nice guy that he is, sent her a picture of his big cock and
told her he was sending her a such a picture (it's a jpg of a
rooster).  Later on, Riker showed up and we went out for dinner which was

I got to the hotel later in the evening and David DeAngelo was in the
coffee shop with a number of the guys attending and helping with the
seminar.  David's very tall, beautiful girlfriend was also there - a true
testimonial to the success you can have with his ideas and
strategies.  While David's presentation was extremely well developed and
presented (the text of what he presented was projected onto a huge screen
and the seminar workbook included a copy of all the screens, which made
taking notes a lot easier as most of it was already in writing for you),
the highlights of the weekend, for me, were listening and meeting some of
the "masters" that came by.  Included in these were Steve Piccus and his
apprentice Eric who did a great optional (but attended by pretty much
everyone) presentation after the seminar day ended on Friday that had
everyone talking about them for the rest of the weekend.  Rick H. was there
and, from talking to him, he's really taken his skills to an even higher
level than before (for those of you not familiar with Rick, he posted here
a long time ago about his incredible success in getting 5 women in bed with
him simultaneously, and he's written some spectacular stuff on creating
threesomes that appeared here as well).  His latest thing seems to be
inviting all your dates to show up at the same time at the same place - he
said that what would happen would be that they would either get along and
you can have them at the same time, or the worst that can happen is that
they start competing for you (you can see his perception excluded that they
could get mad and just leave - that didn't seem to be a part of his
thinking, this is the kind of attitude that explains why he is so
successful with women).  His best friend Brent also made his first
appearance (to my knowledge) at a seminar and he also clearly a guy with
tremendous game.  His thing that he used to do was to invite the women to
come to his place, serve them (cheap) champagne and hors d'oeuvres, play
opera (not popular music like probably every other guy who's place she's
been at) on the stereo and give her the James Bond experience in real
life.  He would close the deals by saying he had just gotten this movie and
propose that they watch it together.  But of course the VCR in the living
room is not working so they will have to watch it in the bedroom, lying on
his bed.  Of course, he had seen the movie many times and would interject a
few well placed  comments like "I'll bet he does this" which will convey to
her that he's a clever guy.  He said he rarely got through more than a
quarter of the movie before the real action started.  This is actually part
of what I took away from the seminar the most - and that is that the guys
who are truly successful with women create their own realities and are
uncompromising in that reality.  The woman enters their world and they
either live in it under his terms or they can leave.  I have noticed this
in the past but it became very clear this weekend as probably the greatest
common denominator between the master seducers that I have met.

The seminar was in a lot of ways a real homecoming, with many of the guys I
originally met several years ago at a variety of Speed Seduction» Seminars
attending, including Ben Orion, Kamal, Jason O., Riker, and Greg Taylor
(now of Seduction Pro).  Also in attendance was Chris Powles, Mystery's
wingman who will be here in Montreal for Mystery's workshops next month,
Jay (Formhandle of» and his bud Ray (Tokyo PUA), and
others.  The seminar was a real eye opener for a lot of the attendees, many
of whom came from very far away (including Vienna, Canada, Australia, and
the U.K.).  Some of these guys had never seen or heard of anything other
than the Double Your Dating» material and were clearly blown away by guys
like Rick and Steve.  And I can't finish this quick report off without
thanking David for mentioning these emails and allowing his attendees to
meet me and get on the subscription list.

It was a whirlwind trip for me, getting in late Thursday and flying out
early Monday morning but I enjoyed every minute of it.  I am certain you
will be seeing more seminars by David DeAngelo and you will be well advised
to check them out.


> GameMaster:  Yeah, I'm using everything in the arsenal to get what I
want from Jenny, which is HER! Now that I think about it, Ross did miss my
point so I'll retrace my steps. My little drill with her was rocking right
along until she made the unsolicited reference to ME giving her the
"approval" that she had lacked as a child. That hardly sounds like I'm
torturing the poor girl now does it?

Ross:  I'm not being clear: from what you described, this woman is VERY
disturbed with severe abandonment issues. Look a bit more broadly at the
overall range of responses and behaviors she displays and step off, for a
moment, on this approval thing, which I believe you RIGHTLY called.
She's a serious nut. Look up "borderline personality disorder". I'm not
much one for diagnostic labels, but she seems like a serious nut. Yes, nuts
are very rigid in their responses, and once you figure them out, you can
enjoy dancing them around like puppets on a string.
The danger here, hidden away, is to YOU, Gamesy. What you are feeding
beneath the ego is something that may rear up to bite you in the ass in
other areas of your life.
> GameMaster: And I validated that just like I'm supposed to and didn't
linger on the subject. My point was, that armed with that sincere
validation that I had bestowed on her, and unknowing this was something
lacking from her childhood memories, she bolted. It was the very next day
that she hit me with the news that "I can't see you again." I wasn't using
that as a shameless opportunity to plug Anne's book, maybe Ross disagrees
with her premise, but I honestly think she's onto something about a major
element of attraction being tied to the "negative combined traits of the

Ross: UNHEALTHY attraction, by nature, will be tied to pathology. Is
UNHEALTHY attraction the only option? I think (and pray) not.
> GameMaster:  My action plan with everybody is designed around a deep
understanding of this theory which boils down to this "Give them everything
they need, and half of what they want." That's basically it. And I did get
her back in the stable but not by being warm and sensitive, but by being
cold and totally insensitive, so who's right and who's wrong?

Ross: The woman is emotionally ill...that is my point. And by engaging in
this stuff with her, you enjoy a victory that is fueled by your beliefs
that all women are like this (or almost all).
> GameMaster: And Ross, I think you know that I have the utmost respect
for you and the things you teach. I took it all in, and when I needed it
the most, and then adapted it to my personality and style. I think that's
what we're supposed to do. But in any discussion about "doorways" there
needs to be mention of the door to their dark nature..

Ross:  There is dark, and then there is deeply disturbed. That is what this
woman is, and pounding her through exploiting that doesn't ultimately speak
well to what you want to have deep inside you, now does it?
> GameMaster:  Regarding the issue of being non caring let's look at not
caring about the outcome first. I do not believe that you can ever really
become non caring about the outcome.

Ross:  In magick, we teach a state called "non-attachment/non-disinterest".
You aren't attached to the outcome, but you aren't uninterested either.
That is a good balance, from which much can be achieved.

Caring is a part of our humanity and not caring is not.
> Stephane: Ok Rasp, think about this. It is a well-known fact that the
MOON causes the oceans to rise and fall. And guess what? YOU are nothing
more than water with a few chemicals spinning in the right direction. So
how can the planets, how can the universe NOT affect you??

Ross:  Man, this is off topic, but with all due respect, Stephane, the moon
only has such a great effect because, relative to the planets, it is VERY
close to the about 1/4 of a million miles, it sits right in
Earth's is like a bum pissing through your window,
getting your floor wet, and someone trying to do it with a HUGE dick, from
5 states over.
The planets are all so far away, that even with their combined mass, their
gravitational pull is practically neglible.
Turn the equation around and you will see the truth in it: the Earth exerts
MASSIVE gravitational effect on the Moon, but relatively little on the
surrounding planets in the Solar System. Why? Because of the distances
> Stephane: It's true that Astrology is mostly run by business criminals
trying to make a quick buck off of lonely, gullible people but saying that
you are not affected in some way by the planets is like saying you are not
affected by tight jeans creeping up a 17 year-old's perfect little ass crack.

Ross:  As you can see, scientifically, this is just not correct.
Potentially, there might be some other effect that we haven't yet
identified, but your example of gravitational pull that produces tides is
totally incorrect in every way. Sorry, this is just the truth.
> Stephane:  So anyway, I went out to the local pool hall for a drink and
saw this new bartender there, HB 8.5, 33-years-old (I'm 26). I introduced
myself and then I grabbed her arm gently and whispered in her ear, "I bet
you could teach me a thing or two : )

Ross:  Note something: you are not only being cocky and direct, but you are
matching her own view of herself and the true view of the situation, at
least from HER perspective, so you gain instant credibility.
You could have been just as direct and said, "I bet I could teach YOU
something" but it wouldn't have matched the situation as she saw it.
Direct, strong, PLUS demonstrating authority on how she views herself and
the situation is right on the money!
> Stephane:  She laughed and said, "You're right -- I could." I said,
"That's good news because I'm tired of these virgins....they look great but
they don't know shit."

Ross:  Again, matches HER view of them.
> Stephane:  She laughed and made a comment on my 'directness' to which I
said, "Not everyone can handle honesty. Can YOU?" She accepted my challenge
and said that she could handle honesty. So I said, "That's good because I
just bought a new condo and I'd HONESTLY like to christen it tonight with'd look really good in front of my fireplace holding a glass of wine."

Ross: Giving her an image to live up to and a challenge are parts of the
"Seduction Wheel" that I teach. Nice moves.
> Stephane:  She said, "I get off at 3am." I said, "Well there's no way
I'm sticking around this place until 3 am, so here's my address.  Be at my
place as soon as you're done. And make sure you show up, because a good
heart like mine breaks easily
: )"

Ross:  Good move. You left it up to her to prove to YOU that she was up to
the challenge, rather than being like the average chump. You challenged her
the entire time. GOOD MOVES!
> Stephane:  She showed up and I fucked her, but she didn't teach me shit : )

Ross:  NO doubt. The reality is, she had NOTHING to teach you, but her
perception (which is what counts) is that she did, and you accurately used
that. Thus, you displayed your authority on how she thinks/who she is. Nice
move. Had you been ballsy but INACCURATE according to HER view, you would
not have faired so well. Great stuff!


Mark B.:
Here is an example of me using SS and it working it's magic. Some
background info first. This e-mail is to a woman I ran into on Tuesday May
21 at a grocery store. She is about 27, tall and fit like a star and has
full lips and reasonably sized rack. Back in June of 1999, I went to a
charity car wash and ran into her and then again about a year later and
then again last year and yesterday. Back at the carwash I did not recognize
her but she recognized me as having gone to the University of Toronto with
me. When I saw her most recently she actually called me out while walking
in the store as I did not recognize her. We exchanged cards and I told her
that we should have a coffee together and that I will send her an e-mail.
Below is my initial e-mail and her response to it.
"Good morning N.
You know since I graduated from U of T back in 1996 you are the only person
from there that I see from there on such a regular basis over the years.
Not even friends that I have from U of T do I see or talk to as often as I
bump into, see and talk to you. Whether it's in a car wash or in a store or
on the street somehow our paths cross. Statistically speaking, the odds of
me running into one person such as you with such frequency over years are
too low to ignore. Even people that I know that live work or live close to
me I do not see as often.
I am a big believer that certain people sometimes cross our paths for a
reason, a lesson to teach us something, an experience that we need to have
however long or short it may be, sometimes a sentence long or years in
duration. I suppose that perhaps you and I have some sort of message to
tell each other or perhaps something to learn from one another and for this
reason we have come across each other's paths so often over the years. The
universe works in mysterious ways and perhaps our chance meetings are an
indication that the universe is telling us that perhaps there is a reason
as to why we have met so often. I feel that it would be interesting to see
what would happen if we actually had sometime to sit down and talk for a
bit to see if there is anything we can learn from each other..
In that context, if it would be fine with you, we can have a coffee and
talk. At worst you bum a free coffee from me and be on your way, at best we
enhance our lives in some way. Sometime next week would be best for me,
after work in the evening on a Wednesday or Thursday or Friday evening. If
that is fine with you let me know what is your availability and we can meet
somewhere convenient to both of us.
Have a great day............

From: N H
To: Mark
Subject: Re: Hello
"wow, mark.
that's a pretty intense email you sent. sorry for the delay in response.
i've been in meetings all day and am actually due back in a few minutes.
you're right. times and places are sometimes a lot less 'happen-stance'
than they appear. what you termed the 'cosmic force' , i call God. i think
he has a lot to do with what happens in our lives.
anyway, about getting together...
i usually get together with friends in the week. you're more than welcome
to hang with us if you'd like. quite a few of them went to u of t,
actually. one guy, derick, was a varsity blue. you might know him. i'll let you know what things look like for next week, and if you're
free, we can all hook up."
I learned and realized that I do 100% better when I give women a reason to
meet with me and then while they are with me I can grow on them by
discussing this cosmic stuff they love so much. No talk of relationship,
sex or anything of that nature until they "feel the warmth of my voice
wrapping itself around them and the incredible connection between us". Ross
I think you are a genius.

Cliff's Comment:  While I think she left the door open for more, she's
setting you up to meet with her and her gang.  She stuck you in the group
of "friends" and I think it's how you react that will determine whether you
stay there or not.  You might consider showing up with a hot looking babe
on your arm.

Mark B.:  So much is written about verbal communication and getting women
to think about all sorts of seductive issues. Over the years I have come to
realize that non verbal communication or how you say what you say and what
you actually do with your hands and body to get your point across can
sometimes or many times make more of an impact than what you say. Thinking
back about the women I boned for the first time, I realized that I did not
just ask them to bone but just took them so to speak with out asking them
for permission and they just went along. I guess this could be something
called BSS - body speed seduction». If anyone out there in the universe has
any thoughts on body language» and your experiences with this I would
appreciate your comments.

Cliff's Comment: In the Double Your Dating» Seminar, David DeAngelo spoke
quite a bit about how 7% of our communication is verbal and 93% is

Mark B.: (Commenting on Stephane on a different topic:) Here's an
interesting 'field-report' from last night. I just moved into my new condo
2 weeks ago but haven't 'christened' it yet (until last night).....She
laughed and said, "You're right -- I could." ....She showed up and I fucked
her, but she didn't teach me shit : )

MB: I love to hear things like this as it goes to show how great it can be
when one is direct with your intent. There is no use in hiding your intent
as I feel that when done with the right body language» you can say anything
and not necessarily always get a yes but at least get good natured laugh
and phone number. Sometimes the more extreme you can be the better off you
are as you come across as gutsy and courageous. My problem is that I
sometimes tend to be so open and so direct that women do not believe that I
am genuine in what I say as they claim no one they ever met is so open and
therefore I could not be serious in what I say. Sometimes it's a battle to
get them to see that I am serious in what I say but that really is not my


> Mark B: Women want and need to be shown that we have taken a risk to
meet them and gone out of our way to meet them. This is the biological
basis where they feel you are courageous enough to fight through hell for her.

Lovedrop:  This is an important point, and it meshes with Nightlight9's
habit of approaching women and asking them out in front of all their
co-workers. (He noticed that his results got better when he risked
Basically, the bigger risk you take, the more attractive you look.
This is why wimpy approaches don't work...such as leaving a note on her
car, asking her friend if she likes you, etc. These are all maneuvers
designed to REDUCE RISK and thus they inadvertently REDUCE ATTRACTIVENESS
at the same time!!
> DB: Anyway, I called her the next day and her roommate said she wasn't
home. I called her again, and the phone was disconnected (temporarily), and
continues to be so. I have little hope for it, but I sent her a nasty email
similar to something RJ posted on the SS list and the fastseduction list.
If her phone is disconnected, I doubt if she will ever read it, if it all,
but it's all I got.

Lovedrop:  Um, I think it is much more likely that her phone was
disconnected temporarily because they were late paying the bill. I think
the nasty email was a mistake.


Gregory Rasputin:
Here's a comment about Ross' and GM's conversation: when I have a power
trip like that (which is a state I absolutely adore), I don't just suck it soon as I feel that rejuvenation that GM must be feeling, I use it
to go out and approach as many girls as I can, because I feel good about
myself. Everyone should be careful about what makes them feel good. You
should never feel good because you're better then someone, or because
you're abusing someone, you should take a few minutes out of every day to
feel good, just because you're neurologically capable of it, and no other
reason. I want to be just a good person, and I know that I may lack a
conscience or feelings of remorse but I still know that my brain KNOWS how
to feel good, it knows how to, it learned how to at an early age, and it
can do it on its own, without the situation changing, without drugs.  If it
wanted to, it can just stop...tune everything out, and feel rejuvenated,
happy, and powerful, and just bring a smile to your face. To me, NLP is
about learning to control your own brain, not the brains of others.

To Stephane: Haha, funny argument about that whole moon thing controlling
the tides. But the moon hardly controls the tides too, I mean, its gravity
doesn't lift the water away from the earth. Besides, there's many studies
out there that prove that genetics don't determine the parts of our
personality that control promiscuity, or our hobbies, and our neatness. If
the planets did control us (which technically, their gravity may cause
little shifts in our embryo's chemicals), all that it will change is our our eye colors, shoe size, facial features, but not our habits.
Genes hardly have anything to do with our habits, and you cannot say that
the chemicals in our heads will make us want to cheat. Right now, I could
not possibly imagine myself cheating on anyone, but if I got cheated on 3
times, I'd hate all women and cheat all my life...but that's just how my
brain learns, it's got nothing to do with my chemicals. We're raised on
experience, and our brains are learning machines, not just piles of
chemicals that react automatically to their surroundings.

And on a side note, Steph, I took your advice about finding a good g/f and
keeping her. I still have my g/f, and you were so right, investing time in
one good girl, is better then going around trying to get laid every
week.  I can hardly believe that u only got laid once this month, what


Maximillian Hell:
I don't read Italian, but I bet there is some great stuff here!
"Seduzionerapida," does that mean "speed seduction»?"


I'm new to this list.  I'm also a woman.
I have enjoyed reading a great deal of what you guys have to say. I have
also had a good laugh at times at honest comments about us females, and
other comments that just are fallacies; at least where I am concerned.
In my humble opinion, which is not so humble at times, I must be honest and
say that a man gazing into my eyes for that fraction longer than humans
generally do, without smiling, is more likely to be saying " I am
interested in getting to know you with a view to a relationship".
A guy that smiles and gazes is saying to me " I want to get you into my bed
ASAP and I believe I am 100% capable of doing so". A real turn-off for me ;-)
 From what I can gather by reading some of what is written by you all, you
are attempting to use some form of either hypnosis, or NLP. Please correct
me if I am wrong, or someone please explain it to me.
As this is my first reply I will leave it here on a high note....I am
marrying one of the best NLP experts in the USA, and I know all the tricks.
Much to my fiance's chagrin, they don't always work on's, but the
idea that you can seduce by hypnosis IS true, but a truly passionate woman
is genetically made. Not produced by any man.


Barry J.:
How do I go about posting to this list?

Cliff's Comment:  To post to this list, you just hit "reply" or write me at
my email address(es) that are at the top of this page.  For some reason
people seem to not understand how to post here and I hope this helps some
of you.

Barry J.: I am in a really tight spot with this one chick over the
net.  This chick was hit so powerfully with the SS I did with her, that she
has been balling and crying her eyes out over the e-mails I have sent
her.  In her last e-mail, she told me I had done it again, and she cannot
stop crying.  She went on to say that what I am doing to her is so intense
that if we met, she might be crying everyday. I saw this as a test, and
sent her an e-mail with the famous Bishop line, "I guess the adventure ends
here, etc..."  I believe this chick is "hooked' as she has never ever met a
guy like me before and I expect to hear from her soon.  I have never had a
chick crying, and crying like there was no tomorrow.  Is it a good sign to
have a chick crying, and crying like this?
The following is what this girl wrote to me. I was hoping to meet her,
after meeting on a dating site on the net.

Hello Barry J.:
>Thank you for your many many emails. The reason i didn't reply sooner is
because when i read your 2nd email i started to cry and i couldn't stop.
You were so right on the mark. I meet men all the time around here and
you're right. There's only one thing they're interested in. They don't even
bother trying to figure out what's stirring inside. Then along you came.
Never even met you. You saw only a picture of me and you were able to
gather all that information just by your intuition. God, I'm crying as i
write this. what's wrong with me??

(Barry J.: The second one gets worse...)
> There you've gone an dunnit again. What would it be like if i actually
met you? Would i just be crying all the time? I don't know about this. I'm
sorry. I just can't deal right now. These emotions are too powerful and I
just can't handle something this intense at the moment. I don't know what's
wrong with me. I'm sorry

Barry J. continues:  After this e-mail, I sent her stuff along the lines
of... I guess the adventure, magical journey, etc. ends here. I then went
on to tell her goodbye. After the first "real" e-mail she sent me, I sent
her some more powerful stuff... which, as you can see has resulted in the
last e-mail I received. This girl was hit hard, and my always improving
"INTUITION" really hit pay dirt... as you can see by her responses.  My
intuition told me that although she was smiling in the picture, that I
could see the sadness behind her eyes, etc... and I went on to tell her
about a more fulfilling future, a great happiness inside, and on, and on...
In my opinion it was the best stuff I have ever thought up on the fly,
using embedded commands, etc.
The big question is... Is this a case that Ross Jeffries talks about, where
sometimes it affects them so much, that they run the other way? Seems that
way to me. They don't feel worthy of a man this good. Too good to be
true?  Is it normal for some women to cry and cry instead of feeling the
joy? I could understand a few tears, but I have never had such a strong
reaction as this.

I'd also like to hear some thoughts from, the guys about chicks posting on
this list, as I am trying to figure out if this is a good thing, or a bad
thing. I am kind of divided on this issue, at this point. I know that there
may be some positives to it, as a woman  may be able to tell us a few
things from a female perspective, but I always saw this list as a support
group for us guys.  Females have all kinds of support groups. We don't have
too many good ones to choose from, and I bet I am not the only one who sees
this group as a sacred meeting place.  That last post proved that that
woman could go for a guy that she would have never otherwise have gone
with. That being the bald headed guy she was talking about, and how cute
she now thinks bald guys are.  I personally am a little uncomfortable about
women posting.  Now the naysayers may bombard this list in her defense, but
I challenge you all to think about this.  I don't think there are many
places just for guys.

Cliff's Comment:  That was not actually a post, but a reprint of an article
("Crossing the Great Bald Divide") that I thought was interesting.  But I
think that women should post - new perspectives are always welcome.

Barry would like to find wingmen in the Sydney, Nova Scotia area.  If
interested, contact me and I will forward your email address to him.  If
you are looking for wingmen in your area, I will do the same for you but
you can also go to and use the PAIR system there
which will hook you up with people in your area (and it is also useful for
places you are going to visit, worldwide).


>Stephane: Ok Rasp, think about this. It is a well-known fact that the
MOON causes the oceans to rise and fall. And guess what? YOU are nothing
more than water with a few chemicals spinning in the right direction. So
how can the planets, how can the universe NOT affect you??

Phillip: Like many things Astrology-related, this sounds like a reasonable
scientific explanation to explain at least on aspect of astrology. Except
that it reveals itself as plain silly as soon as you pull out your pocket
calculator and apply a simple little formula that Newton worked out several
hundred years ago: The effect of gravity on one object (eg: you) is
proportional to the mass of the other object (eg: the moon) *and* the
distance it is from you (which, in the case of the moon, is rather a long
way away). In the case of the stars this distance is billions of times further.
I once read (Carl Sagan, in Cosmos, if I recall correctly) that the
gravitational effect of the Doctor helping to deliver a child at birth has
a much, much stronger gravitational pull on the baby than the moon and even
more so than that of any of the stars (irrespective of their position in
the sky at this moment). While the Doc has a much lower mass, she/he is
much, much closer. Any 17 year old final-year school physics student is
taught this formula, and they should be able to look up the relative masses
and distances in a book and be able to demonstrate this scientific fact for
So while any explanation astrology based on gravity is clearly bunkem, it
is absolutely true that astrology has a profound effect on the minds of
women!  I strongly recommend to guys that they familiarize themselves with
a bit of astrology and adopt an open minded approach when discussing the
subject with women. Astrology is a perfect "delivery vehicle" for feeding
in SS ideas and frames (personally, I prefer handwriting recognition via
the Grapho Deck for this purpose). I slept with a recent beach beauty
contest winner (queen) a few weeks ago for which I can thank "astrology" -
we were in my car on our first date* and she asked my star sign (I'm a
Virgo) and she responded "cool, Virgos are perfect matches for Taurus'", to
which I strongly agreed and anchored her state for utilizing later by
tapping her thigh (this is an easy spot to use in a car, it feels quite
natural; I had already been stacking positive states on this spot earlier
on during our drive).
*date = I use this word in the SS sense, not the traditional sense. I met
this girl at a party which I was at with someone else, soon had her feeling
a "spiritual connection" with me, we swapped numbers, and this daytime car
trip out and about was the first time I'd seen her since then. I recommend
daytime get togethers of several hours which include a car journey. As you
are journeying, be sure to make some "random" stops to check out something
interesting you just happen to be driving past (this demonstrates
spontaneity and flexibility, and such stops are ideal opportunities for fun
things to happen - in my experience shared activity adventures tend to
create powerful rapid bonding). By finishing your meeting in the daytime,
it leaves her wanting more (and offers you an opportunity to set a
challenge for her to see you again that night and closing sexually).

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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