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Be a good wiper, stacker and scrubber
6/5/02 10:48:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time


Cliff's List Website:

Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers,
suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of
what this list is all about.  Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are
on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that
you may be unfamilar with (thanks to Kengue & Formhandle for putting that
together for us).


> Clifford:  On a last minute whim, I jumped on a plane to Los Angeles
last Wednesday and spent the weekend with David DeAngelo (aka Sisonpyh on
this list) and his all star guests. I got off the plane and went to visit
Ross at his lavish Marina Del Rey apartment/cat sanctuary.

Ross: You know, women are always impressed by how much it APPEARS that I am
spoiling my cats, and also how affectionate the little furballs are, as
opposed to being aloof. I MUST be a good guy if the meow-meows love me so
> Clifford:  Ross is always fun to hang out with and we visited Starbucks
and The Tea Leaf and Coffee Bean which are among his frequently visited
sarging spots. The highlight of the afternoon, though, had to be back at
his apartment watching him Instant  Message with this "older woman" (who he
called Granny because at 42 she is a grandmother) where he was absolutely
hysterically funny in the way he was busting her balls - it seemed to me
that he was going a bit too far, but this woman could really take it and
had a highly developed sense of humour.

Ross:  Yeah, well I have been both teaching and demonstrating "cocky and
funny" for years and years and years.
> Clifford: She ended up giving him her phone number as well as emailing
her photo. Ross, nice guy that he is, sent her a picture of his big cock
and told her he was sending her a such a picture (it's a jpg of a rooster).

Ross: Ha ha know, we had some outrageous phone sex where she
admitted that her bed was soaking wet. Here is the text of the IM session I
had with her:
Yesterday, while on AOL, this chick IM'ed. Here is the log of the chat,
only the names and phone numbers edited to protect the guilty!
Oh...P.S.....when I sent her a picture of my "big cock" it was a pic of a
rooster I pulled off of a poultry website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cind: Your profile makes you sound like fun
E:: Thanks
E:: 357 is gun caliber, by the way.
Cind: Well, I guess that last statement went right over my head.
Cind: could you tell me?
Cind: Are you there?
E:: Hello again
E:: Sorry about that.
Cind: Hello
E:: .357 magnum is a caliber of handgun.
E:: What part of the world are you in?
Cind: yes
Cind: North of Burbank
E:: Oh, you aren't so far. So, what did you like most in my profile?
Cind: once in a lifetime adventures, mind blowing sex, side splitting
E:: Ok, you get to pick TWO..which ones?
E:: I'm being too generous.....pick ONE!
Cind: if we had the first one and the last one, the middle one would come
E:: Ha said "come"
E:: Are you trying to seduce me?
E:: I'm not that easy.
Cind: Seduce my mind and stimulate my imagination and THEN you may have a
E:: :0:0:(:)
E:: Well, I'm are off to a slow start! :0
Cind: neither am I, but I can hold my own
E:: Ha ha..well, if you are "holding your own" you need to get out more and
find someone to hold it FOR you!
E:: I'm just SOOOO far ahead on points here!
Cind: give me something to go on
E:: Ok...want to hear a poem?
E:: If you like it, you have to send me a
Cind: sure
E:: Deal?
Cind: yes
E:: You know those little butterflies
That tingle in your tummy.........
E:: And as that warmth....
E:: Goes rushing up.....
E:: You think inside.....
E:: How yummy....
E:: Your gets a little tight....
E:: Your starts to flush
E:: At possibilities so right....
E:: You try hard not to blush...
E:: A little sound
E:: Escapes your lips....
E:: You picture.....PRIVATE things.....
E:: the feelings right....
E:: That your whole body sings.....
E:: And as that warmth....
E:: Goes flushing down....
E:: To where it feels the best....
E:: You know until....
E:: You'll give yourself
E:: No rest....
Cind: I like that
Cind: very good
Cind: desire
Cind: anticipation
Cind: excitement
E:: Mmmm...right....
Cind: points?
E:: And when you experience ALL of those.....
E:: Yep, but you promised me a pic, remember?
Cind: yes I do
Cind: and here it comes
Cind: It is there
E:: Are you bottle feeding someone?
E:: You look like an athlete
Cind: my youngest grand daughter
E:: Grand daughter? OH BOY.....
Cind: I am a grandmother
Cind: shocking
Cind: I know
E:: And I am outta here...exit, stage left....
Cind: hey
Cind: that is not nice
E:: Ha ha....just kidding...
E:: I've banged some VERY hot problem here, bunky!
Cind: banged?
E:: Pumped....done.....rogered....slammed the hamsteak....
Cind: I haven't heard that term in a long time
E:: torched the taco
E:: How old are ya, granny?
Cind: 42, sonny
E:: HA HA HA..I like your spunk......I bet you'll LOVE mine....
Cind: how old are you?
E:: 43.
E:: But I had a 21 year old the other night....she was tasty fine......then
again, I liked that AGED wine....
Cind: well now.............who is the oldest here
E:: So long as it isn't "corked"....
E:: How's about we do you, your daughter, and the grand-kid can sleep
through it?
E:: Heeheeeeee
Cind: are you really that open?
E:: Yep....
E:: How old is your daughter and is she an athlete type like you? You look
Cind: my youngest daughter is 20
Cind: my oldest is 22
E:: Well, let's keep it all in the family.
Cind: I don't share with my daughters, although I do have a friend that is
trying to talk me into swapping
E:: Swapping daughters? I'm there, dude!
Cind: no, silly
E:: Wanna see a pic of my big cock?
Cind: not really, how about you first
Cind: some things are better left as a surprise
Cind: like an unexpected present
E:: There you go..ha ha me, you WILL be surprised!
Cind: you are so cute
Cind: and it is huge
E:: Ha, let's get back to these daughters of yours...I got my
Viagra implant right here....
E:: Did my poem make you wet?
Cind: no, but I liked it
Cind: made me think of an encounter or two
E:: should give me a buzz and hear my voice..THAT would get you
going, but then again, I'm not into phone stuff....I'm only into real
meetings with real people...
E:: Encounter? In-count-her
Cind: one track mind
E:: No, I actually am a super-highway with lots of traffic so I have to be
Cind: do you have pic of yourself
E:: Yes, if you like it will you call me?
Cind: do I have to promise now?
E:: Yes.
E:: Or I can call you if you prefer.
E:: here we go..hang on.
Cind: thanks
E:: Give me one sec
Cind: k
E:: I have others.......
E:: Got any with your bod in them? I want to see them ya-yas.
E:: Ha ha ha ha..I'm such a gentleman
Cind: You are a nice looking man, could pass for a grandpa
Cind: no other pictures
E:: Ha ha..well, honey, this one-eyed wonder-lizard I got packing in my
Levi's ain't no grandpa.
E:: Let's swap...send more to me and I'll send more to you...but no
"she-bopping" yourself to them....that is so crude, you know.
Cind: can I ask you a question
E:: Sure.
E:: 9 and 1/2 inches
E:: I'm psychic AND well hung
E:: Well, ok..I'm psychic
Cind: lol
Cind: I really like your sense of humor
E:: Wow, and I like how your boobs shake when you laugh.
E:: I'm a great fuck too, have NO idea.
E:: And probably won't ever find out..but anyway
Cind: so am I
E:: Talk talk talk.....
E:: Are you a squirter?
E:: I bet you are!
E:: You have the look of a squirter
Cind: if the appetizer is good, do you continue right on to dinner or do
you enjoy every bit of the appetizer first
E:: They call me "the Lizzard" cuz I will lick right down to the gizzard
E:: I have tongue like ten fingers, and ten fingers like a tongue
Cind: do you take your time?
E:: I love eating pussy, I'm not kidding, but they have to trim that taco...
Cind: mine is shaved
E:: How about swallow pink steel, Granny?
E:: Send the pic, get the lick.
Cind: that is my favorite thing
E:: You love the texture and power of a big one, filling your mouth, don't
Cind: yep
Cind: what I love too the most is fisting
E:: Ha ha ha..let us pray,....
E:: Dear Lord Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ....
Cind: repent and ye shall be healed
E:: Please help this horn-dog, wet-pussied, cock-sucking Granny to find
your Grace, amen.
E:: I will now lay my tongue and hands on her afflicted parts.
E:: In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Big Fat Hardon.
Cind: you are so cute
Cind: your name is Paul?
E:: Shhhhh..don't tell anyone..that's our secret..everyone thinks I'm an
asshole, but only special women..the ones who are truly adventurous get to
see there is more to far, you SEEM like you might be that sort of
E:: Yes, I'm Paul.....
Cind: Well, I'll keep your secret
E:: Thanks....I gotta's too bad this is only going to be an online
IM thing...we would have had fun together..I sense it.
E:: Bye!
Cind: then call silly
E:: I don't have a I supposed to guess?
Cind: no, I just wanted you to ask
Cind: so here it is
Cind: 818-XXX-XXXX
Cind: that is my cell
E:: Ok....I'll post it to
Cind: NO
E:: Hee heee....just kidding.
Cind: talk to you later, be good
E:: (ring)
E:: (ring)
Cind: it is in my car
E:: ?????
Cind: I have to go get it
Cind: here, 818-9XX-XXXX
Cind: I didn't know you were going to call right now
Cind: it is charging in my car
Cind: call the house
> Clifford: Later on, Riker showed up and we went out for dinner which was
great.  I got to the hotel later in the evening and David DeAngelo was in
the coffee shop with a number of the guys attending and helping with the
seminar. David's very tall, beautiful girlfriend was also there - a true
testimonial to the success you can have with his ideas and strategies.
While David's presentation was extremely well developed and presented (the
text of what he presented was projected onto a huge screen  and the seminar
workbook included a copy of all the screens, which made taking notes a lot
easier as most of it was already in writing for you), the highlights of the
weekend, for me, were listening and meeting some of the "masters" that came
by. Included in these were Steve Piccus and his apprentice Eric who did a
great optional (but attended by pretty much everyone) presentation after
the seminar day ended on Friday that had everyone talking about them for
the rest of the weekend.

Ross:  Ha ha..I don't know if Eric would accept being called Steve's
apprentice! These two are quite the crew!
> Clifford:  ... the guys who are truly successful with women create their
own realities and are uncompromising in that reality. The woman enters
their world and they either live in it under his terms or they can leave. I
have noticed this in the past but it became very clear this weekend as
probably the greatest common denominator between the master seducers that I
have met.

Ross:  Very very true, Cliff..realize also, they have some kind of great
recruitment strategy to keep up a steady flow of newbies.
> Barry J.: I am in a really tight spot with this one chick over the net.
This chick was hit so powerfully with the SS I did with her, that she has
been balling and crying her eyes out over the e-mails I have sent her.

Ross:  Your big mistake is doing so much through email. GET HER ON THE
PHONE QUICKLY or it all becomes just an on-line fantasy! Check out Riker's
Methods and Masters CD about online Sarging..available now from
Straightforward at 1-703-791-6421


Hey guys, Dave Riker here. Its been a while since I have posted anything to
Cliff's list, and after recently been SWAMPED with questions like "where
have you been, what HAVE you been up to", so I wanted to just fill people
in briefly and add some comments.  I have gotten to meet and spend time
with a lot of guys in our "community" over the past month.
Ross Jeffries Seminar - I was one of the Trainers at Ross Jeffries Chicago
Seminar in early May. This went very well, and I had a great time. I was
able to speak for probably 7+ hours over the course of the weekend. I told
a bunch of guys at that seminar about Ross's private email list as well as
Cliff's List, so we may even have some new members on Cliff's List because
of that mention.

Cliff's Comment:  Thanks, Dave, I really appreciate your support!

Riker:  David DeAngelo's Seminar - I also was a guest speaker at David
DeAngelo's Seminar in late
May, this was also a lot of fun and I got to meet a lot of guys who I have
heard of but never met face to face (i.e. Formhandle). Many attendees
seemed very pleased with that seminar as well (Cliff provided a more
complete review in an earlier newsletter). My voice was *trashed* from a
sore throat, so I was not *sounding* too great, but hopefully my discussion
was helpful.
In Cliff's review of Dave DeAngelo's seminar, he made mention of 2 friends
of mine, Steve Piccus and Hypnotica (Eric). These two guys are quite
amazing in their attitudes towards women, and their knowledge of Hypnosis,
NLP, and various self-improvement technologies. Although their outlook may
not be the type that everyone wants to make "their own", they certainly can
expand a person's ideas of what IS possible, and assist people in deciding
what may be possible for YOU.
These guys don't teach "How to Pick up Women" per se, though they DO work
on changing people and helping people get past their limiting beliefs.  To
characterize Hypnotica (Eric) as "Steve's apprentice" as Cliff did may not
be entirely correct. Although Steve may be older than Hypnotica, each has
his own background, skills and areas of expertise. I know both of these
guys very well (they live in my area) they are good friends of mine, so I
wanted to clear that up and point people in the proper directions for each.
Steve Piccus has learned and studied a variety of disciplines and
techniques including hypnosis, huna, shamanistic studies, tantra, NLP,
energy therapy, etc., etc., etc., (the list is HUGE). Whenever you deal
with Steve you truly are getting a wide swath of almost every discipline of
healing, personal improvement, and power disciplines that most have ever
heard of. Steve does not have any of his own "products" per se, but he has
done seminars with Mark Cunningham ( and is on some
products which Mark sells.
I have seen Steve trance out women half his age in abut 30 seconds. It's
amazing to watch a 20 year old girl be totally fascinated by a guy ... when
all she did was walk up to us while doing her job as a waitress.
Hypnotica (who was the "Eric" that presented at Dave's seminar in LA) is
also schooled INCREDIBLY well in Hypnosis, NLP, Linguistics, and has an
incredible knowledge of women's sexual response. He is probably one of The
Best people I have ever met at weaving Hypnotic and NLP language in a way
that creates powerful effects and real change. He used to do Stage Hypnosis
and is working on his own line of products for the future. See for a preview, and be sure to listen to the
sample audio file as well. ( -
that's actually Steve's voice'sactually%20Steve's%20voice).
Hypnotica is a Master at using descriptive language to create and/or
increase a woman's sexual response - things like bringing a woman to orgasm
on the phone are no problem for him, and almost amateurish compared to
other things he does routinely.

Cliff's Comment:  If anyone would be interested in learning from Steve or
Eric, send me an email and I will get in touch with them for you.

Riker: What have *I* been up to? I have been focusing on creating a few
products which will be out at some point in the future. Instead of
attempting to answer questions and help people in a piece-by-piece manner,
I am writing up a a lot of what I have to offer in terms of knowledge and
These will be worth the wait, I have discussed some of them with people
such as Cliff and I look forward to providing some real tangible things
that will help guys in our community.
Be well everyone. Later for now.


Matthew A. :
> Ana: I must be honest and say that a man gazing into my eyes for that
fraction longer than humans generally do, without smiling, is more likely
to be saying " I am interested in getting to know you with a view to a
relationship". A guy that smiles and gazes is saying to me " I want to get
you into my bed ASAP and I believe I am 100% capable of doing so". A real
turn-off for me ;-)

Matthew A.: These sound like generalizations to me. If there is one thing
that SS and NLP has taught me, it's that we need to communicate with our
words much more effectively to break through these kinds of
generalizations. For example, who's to say that all humans have a standard
time of looking at someone? Maybe you have a booger and the guy is debating
whether or not he should tell you? Just an example. Maybe he doesn't know
what he wants from you and is willing to smile just because you are so
cute? Maybe he sees something in your energy that he has never observed
before and is curious to know what it is. The only person bringing the
presupposition of sex into the gaze is you, until you talk to him.


Mr. Happy:
>She mentioned over the weekend that she had never gotten the "approval"
that she wanted from her parents and commented that she felt she was
finally getting it from me. Like a good seducer, I validated that and we
moved on with the conversation. BIG MISTAKE. Actually I had scuttled the
whole thing by giving her the validation that her self-esteem and ego
craved, and had never gotten either as a child, or in her primary
relationship. Lesson learned.

Mr. Happy:  What she was telling you, from my angle, is that you were
giving her something she isn't used to. With hindsight, we can see that it
was beyond the line of what she would comfortably allow herself to have. As
you look at what you did do, and call that the cause of her leaving, I
don't think you have nailed it accurately. Feeding her self-esteem could be
fine if she can dispense with her old limits. I don't know if you could
have successfully challenged her to do that or not.


> Clifford: ...tremendous game. His thing that he used to do was to invite
the women to come to his place...

93:  You could have stopped here. I have NEVER, EVER had a woman come
over/invite me over and not bj/fuck closed it. But what I want to know is,
what does this guy do to get them wanting to accept his invitation in the
first place? All that other James Bond stuff is just straight-up sex
playtime, and doesn't tell me much about his seduction game, unless we're
talking the long-term criteria.
And a final word about astrology, since we can't seem to let those dead
dogs lie: Lately many of you have entered into speculation about the
possible MECHANISM for HOW astrology can or cannot work. In ANY science,
occult or mundane, BEFORE you begin speculating about MECHANISM, you must
start with ESTABLISHING CORRELATIONS among phenomena. Without a significant
correlation in experience (even if you don't have statistical verification
on paper), you have nothing with which to engineer. If things only randomly
fell towards the ground when you let go of them from some height, catapults
would not work reliably enough to win a war.
And so far, the only weapon in the war about astrology that works reliably
is the capacity of the human mind to manifest evidence for whatever it
takes as true. Science attempts to go beyond this cognitive illusion in
order to establish principles for making stuff happen. Even 'occult
sciences' do this. And Ross has done this in beginning the formalization of
the Seduction Science». So believe whatever works for you. Because when it
stops working, you'll find out sooner or later, and that's another
opportunity for growth.


> Ross: but your example of gravitational pull that produces tides is
totally incorrect in every way. Sorry, this is just the truth. Gregory
Rasputin: To Stephane: Haha, funny argument about that whole moon thing
controlling the tides. But the moon hardly controls the tides too, I mean,
its gravity doesn't lift the water away from the earth.

ADD4HB: Def:  tide "2 a (1) : the alternate rising and falling of the
surface of the ocean and of water bodies (as gulfs and bays) connected with
the ocean that occurs usually twice a day and is caused by the
gravitational attraction of the sun and moon occurring unequally on
different parts of the earth." (source
The moon has other biological and psychosocial effects that you can easily
look up yourselves. Please source your info if you are going to state
absolutes as it impacts credibility.
I agree with Ross, postings should remain on the topic of seduction and its
application. Personally I don't believe in Astrology. What is relevant to
seduction is that women tend to place confidence in Astrology as a valid
process to seek meaning and significance within their lives. In other
words, gauge her level of belief in it then feed it back to her to build
that state of "incredible connection".
> Gregory Rasputin: To Stephane: Haha, funny argument about that whole
moon thing controlling the tides. But the moon hardly controls the tides
too, I mean, its gravity doesn't lift the water away from the earth.
Besides, there's many studies out there that prove that genetics don't
determine the parts of our personality that control promiscuity, or our
hobbies, and our neatness.

ADD4HB: Again be specific! What studies are you talking of. Search Medline
HORMONES + BEHAVIOR" if you are interested in the correlations of genetics
and Behaviour.
> Gregory Rasputin: To Stephane: And on a side note, Steph, I took your
advice about finding a good g/f and keeping her. I still have my g/f, and
you were so right, investing time in one good girl, is better then going
around trying to get laid every week.

ADD4HB: If you are content that is good. Cliff's list, as I understand it,
is directed towards answering questions of, "How do I keep her?" and "How
can I get laid every week?... Everyday?" What will you do to reduce the
likelihood another guy with better SKILLS will TAKE her away from you? : )
> Barry J.: I'd also like to hear some thoughts from, the guys about
chicks posting on this list, as I am trying to figure out if this is a good
thing, or a bad thing. I am kind of divided on this issue, at this point.

ADD4HB: First, I'd like to welcome Ana to the list. The "Gurus" (ie. Ross,
David, Cliff, etc...) are essential in guiding us to many insights about
seduction. As knowledgeable as they are, they will never truly know what a
"typical" woman thinks and feels. Ana, is a woman who seems interested in
sharing her insights about women as much as she is interested in gaining
insights from Cliff's list about men. She is going to read the list
anyways, whether we approve or not. Why shouldn't she be able to get
feedback from us? It benefits us all... Also, spam is filtered on a private


(Commenting on Greg Rasputin: "And on a side note, Steph, I took your
advice about finding a good g/f and keeping her. I still have my g/f, and
you were so right, investing time in one good girl, is better then going
around trying to get laid every week. I can hardly believe that u only got
laid once this month, what happened?")

Stephane: I'm glad you have a nice GF to keep you warm. She is your 'meat
and potatoes'. Now, every once in a while, you can always go out and taste
a little 'filet-mignon' on the side : )
What happened??? Hehe, I was in the hospital recently, had to get 5
stitches in my upper-lip. Let's just say that it threw me off my game a
little : ) I was drinking through a straw for 2 weeks. Now I have a big,
nasty scar on my lip, possibly for life.
I found a way around it, though. If they ask me what happened to my lip, I
might say something like, "Well there was this beautiful girl...she looked
EXACTLY like you. She wasn't quite as sexy though....anyway, she was
walking downtown by herself and didn't realize that she was being followed
by a  'strange dark man'....and just as he was about
to grab her from behind I JUMPED HIM...and that's when he hit me : )"
They are usually laughing at this point and I'll say, "She reminded me so
much of YOU... soft skin...pretty face....bright shiny eyes (at this point
I'm usually rubbing her cheek and she is giggling and blushing)....that's
right, and a gorgeous smile that would make anybody melt....and even though
I didn't KNOW this girl...I felt a very strong need to protect
her...(holding her hand when I say 'protect').  This little routine
definitely helps me. If anything it gets a good laugh, although I've gotten
some strong DDB from a few chycks. Those of you who will be attending the
next DAVID seminar (aka The Beast) will be able to see my lip and will know
what I'm talking about. Women have always told me that I have 'beautiful
lips' and now I don't have that 'edge' anymore, but it doesn't really
matter because women generally don't look at that shit. I may decide to get
a little plastic surgery -- we'll see. Anyway, I'm seeing someone new and
getting back on my feet (penis, really) again and should have a solid
stable going in a few weeks!!


Members of this list often discuss sarging clubs/bars by themselves, and
yet I rarely see people entering these places alone. What do you say to
women when they ask you who you're here with?

Cliff's Comment:  Personally I usually just say that I dropped in because
some friends of mine said they might be there and I just came by to see if
they were.  I realize from your question that others will probably take
this as an opportunity to further the conversation but I haven't used it as
such.  I often will go into places alone (or with a wing) and when asked by
the serving staff if they can help me or seat me I tell them I am just
"looking for a friend" (which is true, actually).

Joy_Stick:  I'm curious if you have any insights on how to get women to
dance. I know asking doesn't work (though I'm at a loss to understanding
why). I've tried Toecutter's brushing up against her with pecks
(,» but with little success. Are there any other methods
that you use/know of?

Cliff"s Comment:  In terms of asking a woman to dance, the first things
that occurs to me are the following: (a) if all you really want is to
dance, then just approach one after the other until one of them
agrees.  After all, if it is only to have a dance partner, there's no
reason it has to be any one woman in particular, right?  (b) If, however,
your true motive is that you may be interested in a particular woman and
that is the real reason you are approaching her to have her dance with you,
it's my personal experience that your problem here is that you aren't being
direct about your intentions.  I always have trouble with women when I am
indirect, although I know that works for other guys.  Think about it in
reverse - if a woman comes up and asks you to dance, aren't you wondering
whether or not she's interested in more?  It's confusing unless the
intentions are clear.  I recommend that you start a conversation with her
and after awhile then ask her to dance - making it clear you want to dance
with HER, not just anyone who will dance with you.


> Maximillian Hell: I don't read Italian, but I bet there is some great
stuff here!  "Seduzionerapida," does that mean "speed seduction»?"

Lorenzo (new RAFC): Yes, I checked it out: it's an Italian SS yahoo group.
Thank you, brother Maximillian. You can get mediocre (but free & instant)
translations of Italian text at:

One of the posters on "seduzionerapida" mentioned the following Italian
NLP/SS website:
Check it out!...

As for me, I don't know much Italian (only four memorized seduction phrases
an Italian PUA taught me in Paris ;-), but I *am* trying to learn a couple
of other Romance languages--fast! You see, I'm currently speed-shagging a
hot Brazilian girl (15 min. quickies in the washroom) and trying to Sarge a
Spanish HB, but I can't communicate with them very well: They don't know
much English, and I don't know much Spanish or Portuguese, so 99% of my
sarging communication is non-verbal.

My best weapon is a confident, long look at them "up-and-down" with a
subtle impish smile on my face (the kind that Crocodile Dundee gives to the
ladies). That look, combined with a confident posture, and an attitude of
"you *know* I think you're hot, and I *know* you think I'm hot, so it's
just a matter of time before we get_it_on."

This nonverbal stuff is very effective in letting them know *what* I want,
but not *when* and *where*, particularly if we're not alone and in private.
If we *do* have privacy, then the answer, of course, is *here* and *now*
;-D. The problems are extracting them without confusion and planning a
rendezvous. A little knowledge of their languages would really speed up the
logistics. So my idea is this: why not find Spanish and Portuguese versions
of SS/NLPseduction and study them? That way I can combine my SS studies
with my language studies. Two birds with one stone!

Could a brother direct me to other foreign language SS resources on the
Internet? Audio recordings would be best.


How to fuck a Virgo.....expanded version
I've been giving this a lot of thought lately. It seems the women I've
always been most attracted too had a major aspect in Virgo -- my mom is a
Virgo. Scary ain't it? Anyway, this one I have been working on lately
(Nancy) is the same deal. I have to watch my language and she makes sure
I'm working hard and saving my money and shit - they are so predictable. So
here are some more tips and I wanted to get this on paper cause I'm sort of
going through a Virgo thing now just cause they're more of a challenge than
anybody else you'll find.
The way to attract a Virgo is to come across as positively wholesome with a
very orderly existence. Talk about schedules, lists that you need to make,
meetings that were very successful and how important that it is to your
future and security. And they like charitable causes, too, so throw in some
bullshit about your allegiance to Greenpeace or talk about family that you
admire that devote their time to children's causes or some shit like that.
They need to trust you and be convinced of your sense of duty and
responsibility. You basically need to project an altruistic, caring,
genuinely orderly and modest front. Virgo women have neat, precise, ordered
lives and they are looking for someone to match them and fit in with their
vision of neatness. Their Virgo brothers don't really care who they's a weird dichotomy. Anyway, help them wash the dishes or clean
their apartment or volunteer to clean the tub. Be a good wiper, stacker and
scrubber....she'll be impressed. And don't invite them to your place unless
it's spotless. I'm serious. Avoid ostentation. They don't expect to be
flattered or wined and dined and you can expect the same. They look for
genuine "genuineness," if that's a word. They're tough to crack.
Here's their list of priorities:
1. Work A-
2. Health B+
3. Home B-
4. Community Service B
5. Hobby C+
They tend to rate sex somewhere between watering the garden and turning the
compost heap. The trick is to get them to move sex up the scale on the
list, and that's only after you convince them it should be on the fucking
list AT ALL!
They like rational arguments so if you can frame a logical manifesto why
people that have strong sex drives and fulfilling sex lives are physically,
spiritually, and mentally healthier and more successful then you have just
won the battle.
Like I said, I been thinking about this a lot! Virgos are a special
problem. They are usually gorgeous, the girl next door look. That makes me

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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