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"A long dissertation about juice machines, dead bananas, and the pros and cons of drying carrots"

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A long dissertation about juice machines, dead bananas, and the pros and cons of drying carrots
8/13/02 12:02:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Cliff's List Website

Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers,
suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of
what this list is all about.  Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are
on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that
you may be unfamiliar with.


Cliff's Comment:  The SS seminar and spending some time with Dave Riker who
is active in the SS "Lair" in San Diego has inspired me to finally work to
get a similar SS/PUA Lair set up here in Montreal with regular
meetings.  Coincidentally, Marco who is very active in the NYC Lair
(probably the biggest one out there with 180 members) emailed me and I
asked him for some advice about setting up and running one.  Dave gave me
some good ideas and the benefit of their experience in making the meetings
worthwhile and if you are in the Montreal area (or nearby and willing to
make the trip), contact me about being on the Montreal email list.  If you
live elsewhere, you may get some good ideas about setting up a Lair in your
city (if you send me something to post here looking for people in your
area, I will run it here for you).

Marco (Leader of the NYC Pimps):
Marco's General Advice on Lairs and his subtle Blurb at the end
Rules are numero uno. My Lair has never been without them from day one, and
I've always shown congruity by enforcing them whenever I can. Members will
respect you more as a leader, therefore they will listen to you more.
Our rules are tough but reasonable (I know some Lairs that are a lot
harsher than mine) and I try to install a propulsion system of reward and
- punishment for flaking on meetings, for posting crap (yes, we define crap
in my group), non-payment for the rental of room, or violating ground rules
during a meeting or sarging session, etc.  The rewards are an ongoing
process of positive verbal support and feedback, bringing in guest
speakers, getting free passes around the city, and continuing the growth of
the group so that everyone has more resources to tap into.  I also use
education, or rather, help the guys appreciate what I do by explaining what
I do and how I do it.  That way, they value my services more. But I make
sure I always do it in from a positive place or a place of power... never
I've had guys like Dr. Stevil who just went to LA, lead my Lair meeting in
my place and it was one of the more successful meetings, from what I
hear.  Just goes to show how important a role rules can play in creating a
successful meeting.
I find meetings run best on Sunday afternoons or Thursday evenings. We post
a word document listing the names, emails and phone numbers of every guy
that shows up at a meeting, so they don't have to wait till the next
meeting to sarge with a wing. They can call on an SS bro from the
list.  The big reason sarging sessions don't work after a meeting or
roundtable is usually because the average meeting will run a couple hours
and most want to go eat.  Dinner is the kiss of death on any momentum or
motivation you once had for least for a group, it is.  So I
agree it's best to separate those unless you are a total nazi about keeping
a strict organization after the roundtable.  Otherwise, don't bother with a
group of about 10 guys.
Generally, these guys are here to have fun, so it's a waste of time trying
to motivate them with JUST rules.  Lead by being fun, having fun and
planning fun and although you will never get everyone on board, you can
eventually get the majority and that's what is most important.  You either
train them to respond or not respond and EVERY communication you make with
the members is a decision...for or against.

There are so many little details I've picked up over the last 1.5 years
leading this group, so if you need more, just ask me.

For now, I created a new sub-group called the NYC Guerrilla Strike Force,
which is centered around SARGE-ONLY events. As I said b4, this is the next
level in Lairs and we had our first sarge event this last Saturday, with 9
hard core PUA's joining me and the new leader of the subgroup, Mike
Kelly.  I had a blast, and picked up 4 hot Hunnies.  We are gonna post some
pics and reports later this week.  The NEXT Guerrilla Strike Force sarge
event is this Sunday. There is a Filipino Convention in town somewhere in
Manhattan and Mike has the 411 on it.
If anyone wants to come check us out, you better be ready to keep up with
us and PARTICIPATE or at least be willing to do the monkey-see, monkey-do
routine and learn from us, as a beginner.
This group is a lot more organized and the cost to show us you are serious
is $4, no exceptions.
Contact Mike Kelly for more details, a yahoo map and the official
invitation: mk2***y@ly***.com[ ? ]
We will also be broadcasting again on the SS list, ASF and future Cliff's
List Newsletters... it's the next up and coming group to make waves out
there. ; )
To subscribe to the largest lair in the world (ONLY if you are in New York
City, guys):
SUB***F@YA***.COM[ ? ]

General Lair Rules are as follows:
At every roundtable, one member will be assigned role of moderator. At
anytime, should the moderator raise his hand, all members are required to
stop speaking - no exceptions! It is important that everyone have their
opportunity to speak and that is why we place strong emphasis on moderating
the way time is being used by the group.
Everyone gets 6 minutes to present a case question, no more. Someone will
be assigned as timekeeper.
The first sentence must summarize the situation or scenario, followed by a
one-sentence question. If you can't adhere to those guidelines, you don't
deserve the time and resources of the members at the meeting.
We have a very large group, representing an enormous amount of resources at
your disposal. If you show respect for their time, they will be more
inclined to return the favor.
If you are looking for structure, it goes something like this:
* announcements
* collection of payment for room reservation
* attendance taken (paper passed around)
* review of roundtable guidelines (future paces meeting)
* introduction of attendees present
* final announcements (i.e.. future meetings)/requests/feedback

Cliff's Comment:  Dave Riker's explanation of the way the San Diego Lair
works was a little different.  They meet every second Tuesday (it's usually
impossible to pick a night that works for everyone, so he said just pick a
night and the ones who value it will put priority there and make it most of
the time) and they don't really permit "drop-ins."  They are looking for
serious participants and if you can't make most of the meetings (or at
least have a very good excuse but a genuine strong interest), they won't
keep you in the loop and will not keep you on the email list
either.  Meetings are held at someone's home and not at a coffee shop or
bar as they have learned that if you are holding a meeting, hold a
meeting.  Combining this with going out does not work.  Typically everyone
kicks in something like $5 per meeting and they order in pizza or something
similar.  Meetings usually start out with field reports and there are
homework assignments that must be done.  It is important that members be
helpful and not disruptive and they do kick out guys who aren't there and
acting in the best interests of all. New members are screened and usually
meet with two of the older members of the group to decide if they will be
let in or not.  Rules and order are very important, otherwise the meetings
degenerate into scattered yakking that doesn't benefit everyone.  I would
appreciate hearing from those of you involved in a Lair or something
similar to help with ideas for the Montreal one I'd like to see set
up.  And these comments will help those thinking of setting one up in their


GameMaster (recounting of recent misadventures; this is edited from a
series of emails)
Well, I got a real problem now. Alley's back.  Two years ago she quit the
club right after all that shit happened with me and her, moved to Florida
and went to med tech school, got her degree as an epidemiologist or some
shit like that, kicked her bad habits cold, stopped smoking, swore off men,
got her shit together and now here we go again. Cliff, how do you resist a
beautiful woman that looks right at you and says "You're the one, you're my
soul mate, and I want this to work"?   Just something about that girl and
she's never looked better. The good news is she lives 1 1/2 hours away. I
was floored to be honest. And she didn't skip a beat when I told her I'd
been "seeing" her best friend Felicia who she was in town to visit. And she
was pretty cool when I told her I was going to visit my Florida GF for my
birthday-that was fine. But she did light up when I told her she couldn't
come over tonite cause my other
Aries girlfriend from the club was coming down. "Can I meet her?" She knows
I've just got a natural thing with Aries chicks cause I nailed everyone of
em' that ever walked through the door at the Men's Club. Anyway, I need to
make her squirm for a while but she's the 8th chick I've nailed in the last
2 months so which one of us is worse???? : ) We spent from 4PM to 4AM last
nite and it was just the most natural thing. She was diagnosed with cancer
right after we blew up and I think that really forced her to make some
serious changes and I'm pretty impressed with what I see. Except for the
part about when we went to the store to buy a bunch of Goddamn carrots to
put in her juicer!!!  Ever drank any fresh carrot juice? It's fucking
terrible. Works for her but it took over an hour to prep, juice, strain,
clean, etc. but I guess it must be good for you cause her cancer is in
remission. I'm in trouble. Thanks for letting me vent.

Well Cliff, I told you this shit was going to catch up with me. I just got
a tip from one of the girls.....OK, Shannon is due in at 6:00 and we had
planned a little 1960's experiment tonite if you know what I mean and so
I'm going ahead with the plan. However, Alley plans to drop in tonite to
check out the competition. She's also coming back at 3AM with Felicia, and
Raya who blew in last nite. The word I got was there was going to be a
"showdown" after work tonite. Thank God for the network. So that's two
married strippers, my alleged "soul mate", and my favorite 21 year old
bi-sexual fuck buddy blowin' in for the Gunfight at the O'Fuck Corral about
the time I'll be peaking tonite. Wish you were here
Goddamnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cliff, I am laughing my ass off over this shit.
It was too good to last anyway but apparently I can't do anything to shake
Alley, and Shannon could give a fuck less about all this, and I still have
Heather who's off at some fucking Nascar deal this weekend and Nancy who
thinks I'm out with friends for my birthday. I need a fucking social
secretary. I'm going to have the tape recorder handy at 3...I'm actually
looking forward to this.

Well last nite was pretty interesting. Not the fireworks I was prepared for
but everything worked out I suppose. Shannon and I left for dinner at 7:00
and got back to the house and found a greeting card taped to the front door
from Alley. Some pretty deep stuff, figured I had dodged that bullet.
However, about 30 minutes later, as we're coming up for air I hear the
doorbell ring..... Alley. No time to comb my hair! Anyway, she didn't wait
for me to come to the door and just walked on in the house...poured herself
a glass of wine and sat down in the kitchen to have a cigarette (I thought
she had stopped but the stress of dealing with me : ) and was just as cool
as hell when I walked in with Shannon trailing..."April, Shannon. Shannon,
April" Long was sort of like that final scene in the Good the
Bad, and the Ugly. Eyes, fingers, guns, twitching fingers, more eyes. Alley
finally broke the silence "You look the part." Shannon,"What the fuck does
that mean?" Alley....pause "I don't know what's going on here, but I want
you to know that this is MY man, and I plan to keep it that way!"
Shannon..."Whatever, I'm going to take a shower"...swish.  OK, now it's me
and Alley who thank God had only reappeared in my life 24 hours earlier
with professions of love and commitment. Alley..."I suppose I deserved
this?" I wasn't prepared for that.....part of her new construct I guess,
lot's of changes. "It's gonna take me some time to work through my dance
card, you were the last thing I expected to drop back into the scene."
Alley...."That's cool, call me tomorrow, willya?" And she got up, gave me a
kiss and left...then called three times from 11:30 & 2:00 am last nite.
Must have been killin' her : ))  Anyway, we went to a couple of clubs
downtown where Shannon stole the show with a repetitive accidental
reappearance of her 36D's that kept popping free from this
tie-up-stretch-all-weather fuck suit she was wearing. This is a class town,
I got to be more careful about the whores I bring down here, but we had a
good time. Home at 2:30 relaxing on the couch when I hear a door slam right
at 3:00. Now it's Felicia, but she was by herself, thank God. Apparently
Raya decided that this was way more drama than she had signed up for and I
must have forgotten to tell her Felicia was a regular in the rotation cause
the message she brought was the very familiar "Tell him Fuck Off!" Anyway,
so now Felicia's in the kitchen doing her thing and Shannon refuses to get
off the couch "Shannon, come say hi to Felicia" "FUCK HER! Bring me a
blanket." OK.Back in the kitchen. Felicia..."Is it OK for me to be
here....I mean is this a sex thing or " 'Yeah honey, it's a sex thing. But
nothing to worry about.' Felicia was very apologetic and I tried to put her
at ease while she keeps asking if she should leave. "Fuck no, get a beer
and hang for a while." So now I'm all alone with Felicia and talk turns to
her best friend Alley. Her impression of the day before's events were that
we had spent about an hour reminiscing and catching up....I guess Alley
forgot to tell her the part about staying till 4:00AM and fucking my brains
out cause when I broke the news to her it was like she had seen a ghost.
She was always jealous of Alley cause she was always left out of our weird
little triangle when we were all together.  So now she's dealing with the
reality of Alley being back in the picture, her time and attention cut
short, or terminated....and I'm loving it cause Felicia's married, and with
Alley in the position of "best friend" she can't know Felicia is fucking
around on her husband cause she'll lose respect, etc. blah blah blah.
It's this whole ordeal. It's a real psychodrama, good makings of a book.
Anyway, Shannon finally made an appearance to mark her territory and
generally make a lot of noise about nothing. There was this hilarious
condescending exchange between the two of them that had me rolling of the
Shannon..."Where did you come from?" I'm not really sure how she meant
that?? : )
Felicia "Work.... Men's Club....DUH. Where are YOU from?"
Cliff, at this point I was laughing so hard I was about to have an
apoplexy. Just hilarious, all the positioning and insults. Shannon finally
excused herself to the couch and cranked the stereo again to drown out the
conversation filtering from the kitchen.
Felicia was cool and she just launched into this long dissertation about
juice machines, dead bananas, and the pros and cons of drying carrots
before they go in the juicer. It was like a Seinfeld routine, I just love
that girl. Anyway, with Shannon crashed on the couch we settled in the den
into our little "romance my married ass" routine and by 5 we were in bed
together. I'd really like to know what she told hubby when she rolled up in
the house at 6:30 this morning?
Aftermath...who knows.

Well, unbelievably everything is cool with the girls except for Raya. OK,
here's an example of how truly fucked up a stripper's mind is. I called her
this morning to give her hell for not coming over Saturday nite with
Felicia. She's mad at me cause I'm having an affair with a married woman.
She says she can't respect me anymore. Oh BTW, did I tell you she was
married as well? Fuckin' strippers!
Everybody else is cool. Halelujah brother.

I think the real difference with what's going on now is that I am very
comfortable with who I am and have sort of found some inner high ground to
work from.  Hell Cliff, I'm at least 10 pounds heavier than during
stripperville days when I was trying SO hard. I can't leave the house
anymore without meeting somebody in some sort of seemingly fated type way.
It's crazy, just the zone. Can't explain it. And I've just been doing
rapport and the general skill set things from SS. Using a lot of hypnosis
over the phone which is just devastating.  Alley has her first session
scheduled for tonite.  She never responded to the patterns and made mention
of back when I was trying to "seduce me with all those canned speeches."
Tough chick : )

I don't know how it all came together, either. All I can tell you is I'm
brutally honest with these girls about what I do, I'm not always available
cause I'm not always available and that keeps the intrigue meter pegged,
I'm sensitive to but not always responsive to their needs, there's some
emotional detachment they have to deal with cause I've always got one foot
out the door, and where else are they gonna go for the languaging that
blows the top of their head off?  I'm having fun but I'm in a real dilemma
now with this Alley thing coming back the way it did. Cliff you know
there's an emotional bond there that is just hard to describe. She's just
an awesome fucking woman.


Some new and some old free personal sites:
(New Sites)
1)Many free personal ads here. You can post, search and reply directly to
personal ads. You have to check frequently because it
changes everyday and there is a small button to click on at the end of the
page to see previous ads.

2) All free here, too. Lots of ads to view here of Quebec people. This site
is both French and English.

3) This site is all free to post, respond and search. Lots of ads from all
over the world.

4) You can respond to ads here, but not directly. There are many ads to
view here and again all free.

Below are old sites that have been previously posted. They are also all free:
5) This site has few Canadians, but has potential. It's free to post,
search and respond

6) Here you will need to know a little about searching, but it is all free
to post, search and respond. You can respond
direct to e-mail addresses and may see a few pictures. This site is all

7) Here is a new one, all free to post, respond or search.

8) Try this one, appears to be free:

The next ones are not necessarily all free:
9) This site is FREE to join. You can respond, post and search ads for free

10) This site is free to join. You can respond, post and search ads for
free here. There is some ads that have
phone numbers and addresses.

11) This site is free to join. You can respond, post and search ads for
free here.

12) This site also all free. There are not many ads, but if everyone post
here it would be a good way to meet

13) This one is a totally free site to post, search. Responding is free but
not by direct e-mail.

14) AOL Personals - Can't go wrong here. A totally free site to post,
search and to respond to personal ads. Alot of ads
with pictures.

15) Cyber Dating. Free to post and you can post your picture, but will take
1 to 2 weeks for all to see.
Some ads you can be responded to by direct e-mail.

16) This next one is under construction.

17) Agence de Rencontre de Montreal is a totally free site to post, search
and to
respond to personal ads directly to the person's e-mail address.
No registration required.

18) ACAM Les Annonces Classes A Montreal is a totally free site to post,
search and to respond to
personal ads directly to the person's e-mail address. No registration

19) Reseau Contact. This site you have to register. You can post your
profile and search personal
ads for free.

20) Excite Classifieds
Is a totally free site to post, search and to respond to personal ads. Alot
of ads with pictures.


I am sure you've heard of people using pheromones to help them attract the
opposite sex. What do you think about it? Have you ever tried it yourself?

Cliff's Comment: Sure, I have been a sucker like so many other guys! I have
three little bottles of the stuff in my cabinet and I still sometimes use
the unscented one before going out...

But it never worked that I can think of - I think all it does is make
someone think it's working and just that affect on their attitude may help
them.  I think you are better off buying some really great cologne (try
Dolce & Gabbana but most important is to make sure that whatever you buy
smells good on you - a lot of these just don't work for some people and
smell great on others) and I think that's about as powerful as it gets...


>Harold: Re: Are you familiar with the above link-url?
If not please have a look at it. Whence you have, tell me what your
suspicions are!!! Now this guy prances around with a digicam in hand,
picking up "mothers" on the street. Oddly, I don't see much of a rapport
PUA technique (cos they seem game without being scored on) has this
guy pre-prepped his targets (are they just playing to the lens cam?) or is
this guy simply all balls pitching the fact for a video trade for money
deal to his beauties?...and my God he ain't pitching at uglies either!!!!!!!!!

Romeman: First, consider the situation: How many 40-year-old babes do you
think you, a complete stranger, could approach and convince to do a sex
video with you that would be downloadable anywhere in the world? (At some
point, the "artist" would have to sign a legal release, mind you,
protecting the videomakers from legal hassles.) Given the enormous
improbability of the situation in everyday life as I know it, I have to
believe that the encounters are not casual but pre-arranged with already
willing targets. At that point I ask myself: How difficult would it be to
find women who are not recognizable personalities at a national level and
who -- 20 years ago -- posed for a photo spread or worked as a stripper or
"in some other way" worked in the sex industry and were thus not
particularly inhibited about performing in public? This scenario seems most
logical to me.


I'm curious what you've learned/heard about "The System" from Doc Love
( It's a 200+ page book and 2 audios with what to
say & what not to say, and supposedly teaches you how to get women to
SEDUCE YOU.  It's $99.00.

Cliff's Comment:  I haven't seen it - anyone care to supply a review?


Paul The Pirate:
> DB:  I had a recent situation that took me by surprise. I sarged a gal
and got her cell number. I called this number and a guy answered. I asked
for the woman and the guy said who is this and said he was the husband. I
gave my .....

Paul The Pirate: My impression is - in both cases you describe, you were
used as a leverage. Both girls do not care about you, they care about their
husband or boyfriend, and they want to change their behavior - maybe get
more attention (in the case of the husband), or get in a serious
relationship (in the case of the volleyball player).  I believe we as
seducers have to learn to recognize these games. You have many choices of a
response . My favorite choices in cases like this are either to erase them
from my memory, or ignore them - if I still recognize and meet them.


Thankx for your reply on the "married woman". The more I experience this PU
stuff, the more I find out what nonsense people will pull and how
borefriends will try to control their women... I think you were right, and
that one of her friends must have told the borefriend that she was with
another guy (being me). I had a situation where I was talking with a gal
and a friend of the borefriend posed as her borefriend, until the real bf
came back. Men will help their buddies out in this situation like this as
if you were a threat. Anyway I had two quick questions:
1. Do you have any examples/ideas on group openers?

2. If a women flirts with you, and you don't make a move soon enough, can
this window be reopened again? Any special tactics, or is it good to say
something why you didn't speak to her initially?
I was wondering in the late 70's and early 80's (prior to the Aids scare) I
was told that going out to clubs didn't really require as much game this
guy said he had many "triple double headers" meaning he bagged three
different women three days in a row. My impression back in the disco age
that picking up women was much easier and didn't require sophisticated game
like you do today. True or just a wishful thinking about the good old days?


The age and car questions
Car question (from actual convo):
hb: what kind of car do you have?
ciz: a white one
hb: no, silly, not what color, what type of car?
ciz: one with four wheels
hb: no! the brand!
ciz: you want to know the brand of the wheels?!?!
hb: no! the brand of the car!
ciz: and I suppose you want to know the license plate and serial number
also... Are you running my car for unpaid parking tickets??? You're not
working for the parking ticket division are you?
hb: no!
ciz: well, do me a favor, just tell them I'll pay my fine by next Monday!
age question:
hb: how old are you?
ciz: well, I'm old enough for you to want to fuck me without fear of being
ciz: I'm 75, but I don't look a day over 60. Everyone asks me who my
plastic surgeon is.
ciz: [ignore and ask] What do you think about guys who know what they're
doing and have a sense of maturity?
ciz: how old are you?
hb: 18.
ciz: we'll, I'm older than you. I win.

>Cliff's Comment: One of the more intriguing statements I have seen is in
Advanced Macking where one night stand master Anthony Berger says "the
louder the better." Anthony, any comments for Justin here?

Ciz: With a loud club, you can get away with more gesticulation in
conversations. And, talking very close to her ear. I tried this once before
with good results. So, if you were to imagine yourself doing something wild
and adventurous... point to where you picture yourself doing this. Or, if
you were to listen to the voice of adventure, where/what side would it be
coming from?? And she either points right or left. Then, if you're on the
wrong side, you move and then comment, as you listen to this voice of
This naturally leads to quicker and stronger kino. With regards to the
female automatic interrupt pattern Ross mentions, you take advantage of
this. With the quicker and stronger kino you either eject rapidly, or you
find yourself in, and really in.
Ciz: Has anyone experienced this? Sometimes you could be getting the hb to
relax, etc. and you can start with jokes, and even be cocky and funny, and
she's pretty much laughing all the time.  But I find if I am too funny, the
chick never gets into a sexual state. She's always laughing. Has anyone
every had this happen? This especially happens over the phone. At least in
person you can move it forward with kino. But if you're too funny over the
phone and she's always laughing there are problems.
At times I find myself and the hb going on for over an hour with some
version of improv on random topics -- which eventually leads not to us
having sex but laughing hysterically.
Is the answer to have periods of silence, but then I'm worried this silence
is awkward. Suggestions?


> Harold: Re: Are you familiar with the above link-url?
If not please have a look at it. Whence you have, tell me what your
suspicions are!!! Now this guy prances around with a digicam in hand,
picking up "mothers" on the street. Oddly, I don't see much of a rapport
PUA technique (cos they seem game without being scored on) has this
guy pre-prepped his targets (are they just playing to the lens cam?) or is
this guy simply all balls pitching the fact for a video trade for money
deal to his beauties?...and my God he ain't pitching at uglies either!!!!!!!!!
Ruggero: I'm surprised to find a spam link in your newsletter. That site is
just a porno site with professional actresses and professional
photographers. Does that have anything to do with seduction? It seems
Harold just wants some free ads from you... (I hope!)

Cliff's Comment:  I don't have time to check out everything that is
mentioned to me, and anything I find interesting I am passing on. Harold
wasn't sure this was a staged thing or not, and that's a good reason to ask.


Mark B.:
Regarding the woman that was married when one of our brothers called her on
her cell phone, I would have told her husband that I fucked her the night I
met her just to get back at the bitch.
I have created a simple two stage seduction process for myself. The first
is the approach where I see the woman, walk up to her and then ask her to
come and have dinner with me or a drink or go for a walk or a coffee,
whatever. Then when I am with her I do not talk about sex, fucking,
blowjobs, kissing or any of such sorts but just let her talk about whatever
she wants keeping in mind to not let her get away with anything unruly. The
second part of the seduction involves a lot touching - stroking her hand,
rubbing her forearm, rubbing her shoulders and her lower back. Then when I
feel like it I just kiss her neck and then her cheek and then her lips. If
she lets me and we continue then I do not stop and then take her to the
bedroom where I fuck her. I found that the more I talk about sex or try to
qualify her extent of her sexuality then the lesser the odds of actually
fucking her.


Nick (from Australia who attended the SS seminar this past weekend here):
One thing I have discovered which I was wondering if you could pass on to
the rest of the SS brothers who frequent Montreal. In my search for a beach
or swimming pool in Montreal, I have discovered that the Hotel de La
Montange has a free swimming pool to the public with bar facilities open
during the day and at night. The story gets better, as I have discovered
that this is the place the strippers, etc... like to hang out and display
their wears to the public for free between the times of 2 and 4 pm.  As for
the specific day, I guess most days as there are a hell of a lot of these
clubs in town. Hence for the those interested in sarging a stripper then
it's and ideal location or  just a relaxing day at the pool it looks cool.

Cliff's Comments:  I haven't been there during the day for years
(downstairs is Thursday's Bar which is a bedrock in the nightlife community
in Montreal) and didn't know if the free shows were still going on.  I
remember some outrageous sites there poolside when I was last there so if
you are in town, check it out.  As for other beaches here, Pointe Calumet
Beach Club is pretty infamous (although far from downtown) and worth
checking out.  This is like a nightclub in the sun.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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