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There was heavy dose of intrigue built in along the way
8/23/02 4:59:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time


Cliff's List Website

Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers,
suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of
what this list is all about.  Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are
on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that
you may be unfamiliar with.


The October 2002 issue of Playboy has a pretty interesting article.  The
following excerpt is offered freely at so I am assuming
they won't mind my running it here:

How to Talk a Woman into Sex

The only guide to seduction you'll ever need by Dean Kuipers

A bartender friend says he sees it night after night: A great-looking woman
meets some guy -- not Benicio del Toro, not a stand-up comic, not even an
heir to a beverage empire -- and something he says convinces her that it's
time to screw. Sometimes they make it only to the car before they are
overcome with lust, and then they're back in the bar, looking obvious and
thirsty. But each time the drama is tender and irresistible and follows a
certain arc along which the guy, and always the guy, has about a hundred
opportunities to fuck up.

Will he get a shot at life-affirming intimacy, no matter how anonymous or
brief? Or will she suddenly realize she'd rather be home getting stoned and
watching Wuthering Heights with a battery-powered Johnny Wadd stuffed in
her pajamas? It all depends on how well he reads the signs.

There is a golden rule to getting first-night nooky and, as with a tea
ceremony or putting the pin back in a hand grenade, it's so simple it's
hard: She has to feel understood, even if all you understand is, "I want to
fuck you, and don't make a big deal out of it." She wants to know she's
safe to express herself. That you are committed to the process of talking
her through it. That you'll protect her from her own excuses by making all
the moves. That you want her. That she's worth it. That she's the white-hot
center of the universe.

It helps to pay attention to the wisdom of George Clinton: Free the mind
and the ass will follow. Every clown in the room wants her body. But if you
acknowledge her sexy mind, brother, you will receive an upper invitation to
a lower invasion. This requires the same techniques, ironically, that will
one day save your marriage: Listen, follow her lead, make her laugh,
flatter her silly, take control and then take the blame.

It's more than an honest night's work. It's a science. And women want you
to know your craft, doctor. Haven't you been watching Sex and the City?
Women I know say the show is a guilty pleasure. The "empowered" women on
this show bounce through endless, unsatisfying, cavalier experiments with
men -- but meanwhile they're fucking all of them! That's good news. Look at
the underlying message: Women are horny. But there's more. These New York
sexpots talk active but act passive, don't actually believe in anything and
have not one shred of willpower. And still, they demand respect.

Every episode proves again that, in their neurotic groping for both a hot
hump and validation, they're putting all the power in your hands. As long
as they feel understood or at least free, they don't have a rule that can't
be stretched or broken. Two things men are good at. Any gal worth the salt
on her margarita glass will tell you she has dorked guys who were dorks.
But the men who got into her pants knew something. Either by accident or
design, they made a fast, sure journey straight to the center of her mind.


>Ross Jeffries:
> Cliff's Comments: Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction» finally made it to
Montreal this past weekend August 9, 10 & 11. Attendees flew in from as far
away as Australia to attend and there were some powerful changes effected
in the seminar on some of the participants. A couple of guys who were shy
and never previously able to approach women lost their hesitations and were
out doing what was next to impossible just days earlier.
>Ross: Yes. This is one of the major "ups" I have on my alleged
"competition". I can take guys who are so totally shy, they can't even talk
with women (and some are so shy, they can't talk with ANY stranger, male or
female), run them few a couple of simple processes, and then they are out
meeting women with NO fear and total comfort, in a matter of MINUTES after
doing the processes.

Mystery: My understanding of hypnosis is this: you can hypnotize a person
into a particular state but that state will change in a few hours
eventually. States change as environmental stimulus changes with time. 3
hours after being hypnotized, the victim's slowed internal switching speed
returns to normal. It's like putting the cart before the horse. You can
focus on confidence and tricking your brain for short amounts of time to
get through the day ... OR ... you can focus on gaining COMPETENCE. Only
with COMPETENCE does one obtain LONG LASTING confidence. Confidence and
competence are IMO very closely bound by causation.

Cliff's Comment:  I happen to think this topic (essentially the making of
confidence) is of major importance to most of you reading these
emails.  Normally I would edit out all the covert snide remarks that
permeate this debate between Mystery and Ross but I think here you will get
a better flavor of what is being said if I leave them essentially as
originally submitted.  My personal view is that SS and MM are not
necessarily in conflict.  MM is mainly about opening up groups - Mystery
clearly states that using SS once you are one on one with your target is an
excellent way to go.  I also see a significant difference between the
confidence needed to do MM and the confidence needed to do SS - with MM,
you really protect the ego because you are really just developing a method
to start talking to people.  With several approaches used in SS, you are
more likely to be directly approaching your target and in one fashion or
another putting your cards on the table.  Mys doesn't feel that this is an
overall effective strategy when dealing with "10's" not only because they
are usually out in a group and rarely are out but they are not very
approachable alone.  But, in my way of looking at things, you need bigger
balls to go up to an HB and tell her you think she's absolutely stunning or
that she's a "shining example of genetic perfection" than to ask some guys
or the UG about your friend's being asked to appear on the Ricki Lake
show.  Not to say the latter doesn't take confidence, but it's a lot
different.  And if there's one thing that SS does attempt to do, it is to
train you what to say and to develop competence; I don't see that as being
different between the two methods at all.  Ross constantly tells his
students that if they don't go out and practice what they've been learning,
nothing is going to happen.  So in that sense they both agree that you have
to go out and do it.  I think Mys remains skeptical about Ross's "new
technology" primarily because he hasn't seen it himself.  Even if what he
says is correct that it only has a temporary effect, think about being
someone who couldn't act before and now you are in that state and doing
what was previously impossible or extremely difficult for you.  One thing I
have definitely seen from meeting many guys over the years is that
sometimes just having a little success propels them to greater success.  I
think if you "care only about RESULTS" you will be open to anything that works.
>Ross: Now, you can "be a man" and FORCE yourself to do things while in a
fearful state, or you can avail yourself of top technology. You can crawl
across the desert on your hands and knees, half-dead and half-dying from
thirst, or roar across on an air-conditioned, enclosed ATV, blasting your
favorite music on the sound-system, sipping cool drinks. YOUR choice.

Mystery:  Interesting metaphor, equating short term "mind fucking" of
oneself with "comfortable travel" and at the same time limiting our readers
by increasing the concept of mere ANTICIPATORY ANXIETY up past "fearful
state" on through the shear agony of having to "crawl across the desert on
your hands and knees, half-dead and half-dying from thirst". Talk about
exaggerating to the point of absurdity (a logical fallacy described in THE
BALONEY DETECTION KIT in the book The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan).
My father, Mystery Sr. used to say, "Son, if it talks like shit, it's shit."
Who am I to think that first comes COMPETENCE and THEN confidence over
successive approaches? I can only tell you what works based on my knowledge
of the field and by my relations with some really great PUAs. If we focused
on INTERNAL STATE issues, we would have the momentum to actually get GOOD.
SKILL comes from experience in the field. Lots of it. I tell you, nothing
can give you confidence more than COMPETENCE. You can be made to feel
CONFIDENT for a short time by being run through "a couple of simple
processes" in a "matter of MINUTES" ... OR ... you can ACCEPT that
anticipatory anxiety is natural and healthy. It is ubiquitous throughout
all of humanity in fact. Only insane people do not feel anticipatory
anxiety when doing something they haven't done before. Accepting this
truism, you may now get behind the steering wheel and learn how to steer
despite your warranted fears. Honestly, who do you want flying your plane:
a hypnotized pilot who FEELS confident but doesn't know his nose from his
tail ... OR ... a COMPETENT pilot who may feel at first feel anxiety and
therefore be a little more CAREFUL and double check his switches before
settling into his seat for the long flight?
However, this said, there are some that can't even get out the HOUSE, never
mind approach a girl so RJ's "simple processes" would definitely be a step
in the right direction. If you are PARALYZED by anxiety then beginning at
the beginning is a step in the right direction. RJ gets you out of the
house. I get you into the Clubs and PRACTICING. I get you approaching
groups because women of beauty and quality are rarely alone (except in LA
which is quite frankly an aberration ... and I've conducted workshops in
MANY cities in America and even in Europe). I give you the tried and true
methods for befriending various sized peer groups. Once you have built
social proof and isolated the target, you can drive the nail home with SS
at this phase. Then ... forgetting # closes (they SUCK SUCK SUCK), you
either instant date or MAP close to see her for a Day 2 meeting. MM and SS
are more powerful TOGETHER than apart. SS is both VERY BASIC and VERY
ADVANCED. There are missing components.  It denys the effectiveness of CLUB
work merely because RJ has a PERSONAL THING against them. He can't work
them MERELY due to his limiting beliefs about them. "It's too loud and
smoky". Why has this NOT stopped some of the best PUAs on this planet from
working them? Rick H plays in this realm. I do. Craig does. MTL_PUA does.
Supasta does. Mad Dash does. Stripped and Badboy and Style do, too. And
Nightlight9 and No9, too. What does this say when some of the MAJOR PUAs
work in this environment?

Cliff's Comment:  Ross doesn't tell you not to go into clubs, only that his
personal preference is to meet women elsewhere.  I don't recall him saying
that SS won't work in clubs, either (certainly I have seen Rick H and
others use it effectively in clubs).  I think we are all entitled to
approach where we want and there's no reason to put someone down because
they have different preferences than you.

Mystery continues:  GROUP THEORY is extraordinary because ANYONE can learn
it. Why pounce on the sickly lonely coffee shop girls when you can get the
ALPHA-FEMALES ... in the same amount of time? No stopping them on the
street. Wait for them to walk into a store because walking girls never walk
far. They are always going SOMEWHERE. Go in and befriend the peer group. Be
nervous, that's ok. Just know that you have the skill to GET THE GIRL
ANYWAYS. The anxiety goes away AFTER the approach. In MM, I suggest you
approach a dozen groups a night. The first 3 groups are WARMUPS to get your
google into mode. Hell, be nervous, I don't care. I am. And I'm a
performing artist. I get as nervous before my warmup approaches as I do
going on stage or beginning a new workshop. So long as it doesn't STOP me,
I accept it and MOVE ON. It goes away with SUCCESS, I PROMISE.
Self-hypnosis is for AFCs. It's the MAGIC PILL that sounds too good to be
true because ... it IS.
Somewhere in all this debate RJ and I will find a compromise, a cognitive
model that works all the pieces into a single picture. SS fits into the
ISOLATION PHASE of MM perfectly. But chuck the hypnosis. Altered states
only allow your pockets to be picked when your eyes are closed.

Cliff's Comments:  I think you'll find a world of people that will disagree
with you about the effectiveness of hypnosis and I personally have
experienced positive changes from it.  Again, just because it may not work
for you doesn't mean it won't work for others.
>Mike: What is DESPERATELY needed is some in-field video's!

Mystery:  Yes. I would contribute some of my sarges on video but only to
show how MYSTERY works his room and not a public product or anything. Maybe
I will do this and give it to those I know and trust. But then again, those
I know and trust get to see me LIVE. That's what my workshop is ALL about.
Speaking of, I am planning my first LIVE SEMINAR in NYC in September. Check
my website later when I finalize plans and set dates. Not as good as the
in-field workshop (nothing beats THAT!) but CHEAPER ... and I have more
than a dozen workshops under my belt, many specifically for ADVANCED PUAs
so my research over the last year will provide seminar attendees with some
of the most FIELD-TESTED material on this fucking PLANET! I care only about
RESULTS! I have many advanced student workshop outing reports to add to the
website as well. The FAQ is at These updates will be
made this week.
>Still such a video of a MASTER PUA in action would give the very BEST
instruction imaginable!

Mystery:  Only ONE teaching method tops video: an IN-FIELD workshop. Next
to that, VIDEO. Next to that, hardcore trial and error (the way I learned).
Next to that, a seminar. Next to that a book or home study course. Next to
that? As Ray Gordon says, "OPRAH". haaaaaa.
>It would also be completely unique too and be more valued than anything
else! Whoever comes out with THAT will have struck a veritable gold mine!

Mystery:  And if any girl sees it, that guy will be labeled a PLAYER for
LIFE. Not my thing. This PUA role is fine and dandy in front of your guys,
but in real life, I'm not a PUA. I am a performing artist who happens to
enjoy the company and affection of women of beauty. I even TELL women I
conduct a workshop. I took Ross's lead when he told me how he words it.
>Firstly, someone should do 10-15 of them and see if they can get the
releases signed after. Until you try, you don't really

Mystery: That's why I would do it PERSONALLY. I don't need releases for
showing friends my HOME VIDEOS. Only to MARKET and profit from them.
>The other idea (mentioned by Dave Riker when he was here) is that it
wouldn't be too difficult to alter or block the faces (and disguise the
voices) of the women using today's computer technology so you wouldn't
really need releases. I think these are going to done soon by someone, and
it will be very interesting to watch.

Mystery;  Let's talk tech. I brought a low light camera hidden in a pager
into a club but the recording device was ... not practical to say the
least. And the audio SUCKED. suggestions?
>NightLight9: This is an area that doesn't get discussed much but should.
Some basic rules of winging:
1) Who ever opens a set gets to pick his target. It's best to point out who
it is so the wing can know before the approach, but otherwise assume it's
the hottest chick (yes, that's a judgment call).

10) Don't try to outshine the lead. Unless you are leagues ahead of the
lead and you are teaching them, it's their show until you start to
separate. Once you have split into groups, do your thing. If you wanted to
lead, you should have opened yourself.  The only way to truly get good at
winging is to wing a lot, and everyone is different, so you may need
practice with that specific PUA. And, of course, there are exceptions to
the rules. The most obvious being a strategy that you have worked out ahead
of time. That said, the above is a very good general set of rules.

Mystery:  Do you notice how NL9 focuses on TACTICS? Not internal states.
It's all TACTICAL. MANEUVERS and STRATEGY. This is metaphorically more like
a strategic game of speed chess than "crawling on your hands and knees
through a desert." Group theory focuses on getting the HOTTEST GIRL, not
DEALING WITH YOURSELF. Look OUTWARD, not INWARD. When buried in a groupset,
you are too busy to worry about your FEELINGS.


Mark B.:
I recently read a book called Callings by Gregg Levoy. It's a book about
figuring out your true purpose in life and then following it. It relates to
PUA as it talks about overcoming fear, anxiety, uncertainty and how to put
that in the right context for yourself which can be easily related to our
quest for more and more pussy.
> Mark B: I have created a simple two stage seduction process for myself.
The first is the approach where I see the woman, walk up to her and then
ask her to come and have dinner with me or a drink or go for a walk or a
coffee, whatever. Then when I am with her I do not talk about sex, fucking,
blowjobs, kissing or any of such sorts but just let her talk about whatever
she wants keeping in mind to not let her get away with anything unruly. The
second part of the seduction involves a lot touching - stroking her hand,
rubbing her forearm, rubbing her shoulders and her lower back. Then when I
feel like it I just kiss her neck and then her cheek and then her lips. If
she lets me and we continue then I do not stop and then take her to the
bedroom where I fuck her. I found that the more I talk about sex or try to
qualify her extent of her sexuality then the lesser the odds of actually
fucking her.

Ovulu: MarkB, it appears your have a three prong attack rather than a two
stage process:
> Stage #1: The first is the approach where I see the woman, walk up to
her and then ask her to come and have dinner with me or a drink or go for a
walk or a coffee, whatever.

Ovulu: May I ask what are the conditions and terms for this type of walk up?

MB: You know it's funny that you should ask me this as I recently figured
out what type of women I do well with. I do not do well with women
regardless of their looks that seem very all over the place, so to speak,
the high energy types that tend to move their arms and legs in all
different directions and ones that tend to walk quickly and talk quickly as
well as not having focus in a conversation. These women I find draining and
I quickly run out of things to talk about. I do much much better with those
that seem more focused on something or ones that are able to stand still
more and ones that are able to hold attention for a longer period of time
and have something to say other than grunts. In clubs I do better with
women who just stand there either alone or with friends and look around
rather than ones who are engaged in a group activity or a conversation -
the social butterfly type. At malls or streets, I do much better with women
who walk slower, take their time looking around, or are better able to hold
attention. So the first rule is she must be attractive and secondly she
must appear calm, centered and somewhat in control of herself. I am very
quiet and not a big talker by nature and find it difficult to make
fragmented small talk. Therefore I do much better with women who are able
to hold and carry on a conversation and not be easily distracted by
something else. As well I enjoy deep meaningful discussions on a variety of
topics and look for this type of woman as well for the sheer enjoyment of
her company beyond her pussy.
> Stage #2: Then when I am with her I do not talk about sex, fucking,
blowjobs, kissing or any of such sorts but just let her talk about whatever
she wants keeping in mind to not let her get away with anything unruly.

Ovulu: Specifically, what does this mean..."but just let her talk about
whatever she wants keeping in mind to not let ! her get away with anything
unruly". How are you controlling her banter for her to elicit conversation
she wants?

MB: I do not allow them to get insulting or abusive to me. If a woman calls
me a bastard as a joke, I will tell her in a serious tone that I do not
appreciate being called that, ever, even as a joke. If she talks about her
ex bf excessively, I tell her I do not want to hear about it or talk about
it any more. I try to build chemistry by talking about things in which we
both have a mutual interest. I try to respond positively to things that she
tells me and build on that by continuing the conversation with her on that
topic. But overall I find that I do well when I keep the structure going by
putting her back on track if she digressed but I let her fill in the
content. Some of my most successful times with women occurred when I really
said almost nothing but simply allowed them to talk. All of a sudden almost
as if just listening to them they became turned on and came onto me on
their own. Funny creatures they are....I remember I met a dancer back in
early June at a strip club. We talked for about 1.5 hours and then I gave
her my number. She called me a month later and invited me over to her
Penthouse condo. I showed up at 9:00. We went over to her balcony where we
drank, ate fruit and talked with me saying next to nothing to her other
than acknowledging what she herself said. Suddenly she sat on my lap and
began kissing me. We kissed for a few minutes and then proceeded to go to
the bedroom.

Ovulu: Stage #3: I understand the final process of rocking her bowels in
the bedroom on the terms you suggest. However, do explain the nuts and
bolts of stages 1 & 2.MB: anything else?

MB: I see her, say "hello, I could not help but notice you" silence and let
her talk. Ask her to coffee, lunch, dinner, etc. I try to sometimes also
talk about something relevant to the setting where we both are before I
tell her I noticed her if it applies. If it does not and the setting does
not appear to be relevant for a setting discussion, I just go for what I
want with her. Then we talk and talk and talk. I touch her hand casually,
stroke her arm, rub her lower back subtly. If she responds positively, I
kiss her and then proceed to the bedroom either that day or the next time I
see her.


Re: the part about videotaping approaches...have you heard of kenxtions?
( ...he has a video that comes with his package that
shows approaches. just an fyi...he used to have some clips on his website
that you might find of interest. he basically rigged a camera into a backpack.

Cliff's Comments:  Yes, I have the Kenxtions video and those are not bad
except I don't think there's anyone reading these emails who will consider
those approaches as being very advanced.  I also think that in most of
those the targets were receptive and the PUA didn't do much that would
differentiate him from any regular guy doing an approach.  What we are
talking about here are watching more advanced strategies and tactics in action.


I notice that when I am flirting with a girl and things are going well they
often will mention something that I can tell is intended to turn me on. For
example, I was talking with a girl at a bar and she started going off about
how people always tell her that she is good at giving massages and how she
loves to go to strip clubs. I could tell she was trying to be flirtatious
as hell, but I just didn't know if it was wise to act all turned on by her
statements. I say this because I didn't want to make her feel as if I was
all ga-ga over her (I notice that when women think you are ga-ga over them
they start messing around with you, I think it may be a power trip thing or
something). Any way, I played it cool by acting as if she wasn't really
turning me on at all. However, I must have done something wrong cause about
3 minutes later she just left. What do you think would be wise to do in a
situation like this?


I would like to know if there are any members/PUAs in the Miami area that I
can connect with.  Please contact me directly at eve***t@te***.com[ ? ]


> GameMaster (continuing tales in the saga of a man "in the zone"):
...encounter any resistance. Anyway, good thing we had the presence of mind
to lock the doors cause 30 minutes later the phone is ringing off the wall.
You could hear this guy raging on the answering machine...sounded a little
like me 4 years ago before I grew up. He must have called about 6-8 times
before we hear somebody banging on the door, then the kitchen door, scream
scream yell holler scream......I reached over and turned off the light
cause I knew the windows were next and sure enough ...bang bang on the
bedroom window....more hollering and screaming. Beth was freaking out so I
figured this was a good time to go down on her to sort of take her mind off worked. Anyway, fuckhead finally left, called 3-4 more times
and left more nasty messages.

Luceo: It's obvious to me you feel you did Beth a favor by separating her
from that loser, but I'm wondering how you have prepared to handle him if
he comes after you physically? I mean a guy that is so controlling as to
buy an engagement ring to keep you away from her could quite easily snap
and come shoot you or her or her and all her coworkers, and maybe some
innocent people at the hospital, too. Did you take any steps to preclude
that? I'd like a strategy for such things, without having to worry about
buying a gun or martial arts, etc.
Or do you just plan to talk him out of it in the moment, if that ever were
to happen, since he obviously knows how to find you?
Anybody else have any ideas on handling a dangerous bf after a bf-destroyer?

GameMaster responds:
Here's my thoughts on this subject and Cliff this requires a little setup
because of generational differences and general mentality I guess. Anyway,
I'm 49 years old and I don't go looking for trouble anymore, although there
was a time. So I'm not limited by the physical reluctance of what I call
the Nintendo Generation.... no offense. However, I have cultivated a very
commanding presence based largely on Major Mark's concept of the romantic
hero. At least that's where I got the idea, and I had the rebellious
Southern aristocratic background that made it easy to assimilate. To answer
your question, I've met this guy and he is terrified of me. I'm gonna use a
line from the Goddess Lara Flynn Boyle, who I will have one of these days
by God, and I'm one of those guys that when he walks in a room all the
other guys automatically hate me. My attitude is basically nobody can
compete and I've had best friends stab me in the back cause they could
never find a solution to beating me down mentally, physically, or with the
girls. Competition among friends should be outlawed but unfortunately it
I read alot about the allure of the "alpha" male....well I look at myself
as the Alpha-Omega male, the beginning and the fucking end. I don't want to
go into a lot of background but I'm blessed to have many experiences that
challenged my will, fortitude, athletic ability, mental acuity, and there
was heavy dose of intrigue built in along the way. With a lot of the girls
I get involved with, I write them short stories that are romantic and
sexual in nature and I incorporate aspects of their personalities in these
stories. The central character, however, is a guy named Jake who is my
alter ego. Jake is a very bad boy, and he's not somebody to be fucked with.
I have become Jake, and since I made this transition the world is raining
women. An unbelievable 8 in the last 2-3 months, two that dropped back in
mysteriously after long absences, and two that are best friends that were
competing in a rather humorous manner for time. I think I'll hang on to
this persona for a while as it seems to be working.
Beth's boyfriend took one look at me and you couldn't have driven a
ballpoint pin up his ass with a sledgehammer. My attitude, my body
language», my comfort level, and what I "project" just said....."Dude, I am
going to fuck your girl and there's not a Goddamn thing you can do about
it." I could hear him screaming at her when I walked out the door and I
knew that battle was already over. Some guys might say I was supplicating
with the lawn mowing and shit but I look at it as needed exercise while
cultivating my tan and this girl is very cultured with MANNERS and she
appreciated and was touched by my voluntary help. I guess it worked.
Anyway, to the general question of this or any other guy going postal or
threatening you physically.....ain't gonna happen, Bro. I hear a lot of
these guys talking smack but talk is all it is. There ain't nobody I've
come in contact with in the last three years of stealing wives and
girlfriends right out from under that is prepared to back it up. Society
today just doesn't condone that kind of thing and in this situation, if
this guy were to take a poke at me after I've given his girl the greatest
night of sex in her much respect would she lose for him, and
how much would my stock skyrocket? And absolute favorite
thing is to snake somebody's girlfriend right in front of the guy and
seduce her on the spot and get her business card or we mentally exchange
places of business, departments, full names, etc. so I can follow up with
an anticipated phone call. And the Number 1 reason these guys won't do
anything about it (and I just love this) is CAUSE IT AIN'T COOL! And with
my target audience of under 35 it's ALL about being cool. I learned this
all quite by accident but when I learned the ropes I found that I could
fuck anybody I wanted to with no recourse. I spent two years as an insider
in the country's top strip club and fucked everything that moved under the
watchful eye of boyfriends/husbands and they couldn't do a Goddamn thing
cause it just wasn't cool. This blows my mind cause if you even think about
one of my girls I'm gonna fuckin' kill you. That may be the difference, I
don't know? And here's an example of how this night in the
club I had this chick sitting in my lap that I had nailed a couple of
times....I think she may have let that slip to the BF cause he came in the
club that nite, saw us and went ballistic. Threatened to kill me, kick my
ass, etc. blah blah blah. I laughed at him and said something pithy like
"what-ever." Anyway, the net net of that was that his GF bluepassed out
early, came straight to my house, and we had the most mad sex you can have
with a stripper and she refused to leave for two days. That's how this shit
Well, you can tell it's a full moon today but that's todays rant. Hold the
applause : )
(Separate posts by GameMaster:)
> Ross: Well, patterns are A LOT more than canned speeches. You're using
the old stuff.
Gamemaster: That was over two years ago. I don't use the patterns anymore.
Now I'm relying on my strikingly handsome looks, devastating charm,
commanding presence, sparkling wit, and animalistic instinct and allure to
get what I want : )

(Another post by GameMaster:)
GameMaster: Well, here's one for the record books. Went to dinner with
Susan last nite.....and the subject of marriage came up. Susan asked me
"what do you really want?" Well, my answer blew her away but it's basically
from the core value construct but I matched it to hers. I told her she was
nothing but a silly little girl concerned only about the size of a person's
checkbook and when she decided to grow up then we could sit down and have a
serious conversation about the long term. She was already pretty upset
about that "pretentious" comment and this one knocked her for a loop. I'm
the immature one in this equation so this sort of turned the tables on her.

She said she'd marry me today if it weren't for the competition so we
agreed to table the discussion for a few more years. Anyway, we're going
out again tomorrow nite but she just called and .....hang on while I pat
myself on the back.....she hooked me up with one of her friends Saturday
nite!!!!!!! After I got over the shock of course I teased her about being
my pimp, etc. and how at least if I'm dating her friends she can keep track
of my whereabouts - which is what I think this is all about. Susan asked me
to call 'Spencer' (love that name) and set it up so I did our phone thing
on Miss Spencer and just absolutely laid her to waste.  Susan called back
in 10 minutes "What have you done to my girlfriend????" haw haw haw
I can't remember what I said to Spencer. We've never met but I just called
her up and talked to her like I've known her all my life....for about an
hour. 36 and Susan says she's pretty hot.
Actually, Susan's never really seen that side of me cause we've known each
other too long but over dinner last nite I said something boldlike and she
said "I can't believe you would say that in front of me, I'm offended!" My
reply "Susan, I love you..... but I'm not in a serious relationship with
you and quite frankly you don't qualify cause you're just too Goddamn's just to your bad luck that you're already in love with
me, and you know you can't control me!" That's when she excused herself for
the ladies room and came back 10 minutes later to find me chatting it up
with the restaurant manager who BTW I had dated for a while a few years
back. Susan was livid but it wasn't too much later that this marriage
discussion started. Too funny.
Anyway,Susan has decided that she herself is going to make an appearance at
this party Saturday nite, I suspect to check out the dynamic between me and
her girl. Women are goofy! What's next? The more I learn the less I seem to
understand these things.


Gregory Rasputin:
> Maximillian Hell: Not a question but a declaration: "I am waiting for my
friend(s)," spoken in a haughty tone as if somehow her waiting status
precludes the convo from going any further. I've twice received this line
upon my initial approach. I guess some sort of neg is called for: "YOU have
friends?" But there must be something better than that--typically the
target appears hostile in that circumstance.

Gregory Rasputin:  To get that declaration, you must've asked "so what're
you doing here?" A question so plain you must never  ask it in the first


Matthew A.:
> Carlos:  The main goal is LIVING SEXUAL ECSTASY. Prolonging the sex act
to live one or two hours of sex that are responsive, mentally focused,
emotionally committed, and very pleasurable.

Matthew A:  Kudos on your motivation to become a better lover and enjoy the
pleasures of a woman. Be careful how you word it! "Living SEXUAL ECSTASY" I
have these images of your dick falling off. LOL

Ecstasy is a state in which there is no opposite (and one in which their is
nowhere to grow) and from your description, albeit a positive thought, is
not as "earthly" as you may think. To be totally honest, I don't think
there is such a state as sexual ecstasy, unless you kick the bucket while a
Playboy Centerfold is riding your schlong.

If I were you, I would focus on gaining MORE PLEASURE with what is already
there. Hyper-Emperia, Hypnosis for Sex, and you mentioned becoming
multi-orgasmic, and to that I recommend "The Multi-Orgasm Man" written by
Mantak Chia. I don't know if you are interested in Tantric practices. If
you are curious, start with some simple reading and judge for yourself.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
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This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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